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Sony: don't play old games anymore buy new ones.

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Posts

  • Dirty DrawersDirty Drawers Registered User
    edited October 2007
    Oddly enough, I think Blu-ray is going to become the standard movie format this time around, because of the PS3 boost, but it's going to end up costing them the game business, where increased capacity doesn't mean shit if developers have decided to go to the systems that have 2-3 times your installed base.

    I kind of agree, HD-DVD doesn't seem to be taking off as strong as Blu-ray now that the PS3 is in stores, but they tried pushing it on us the wrong way. They should have given the option of getting blu-ray or not, and 1 or 2 years after the launch of the PS3, once it has a large fan base they could have sold the integrated blu-ray probably close to the same price as what the 40GB will sell at with larger profits.

    The 40GB seems interesting, I would buy it knowing I would be losing BC for a time, but the lack of games and trying to force feed me their format still keep me away.

    Dirty Drawers on
    Fools shall not be pitied.
  • MonaroMonaro Registered User regular
    edited October 2007
    They should have given the option of getting blu-ray or not, and 1 or 2 years after the launch of the PS3, once it has a large fan base they could have sold the integrated blu-ray probably close to the same price as what the 40GB will sell at with larger profits.

    That's actually an interesting idea. Considering how drawn out this format war is going to be, I could see that working. Cheaper PS3 now = bigger installed base to start pushing Blu Ray later, to bring it more in line with the PS2/DVD synergy.

    Monaro on
    steam_sig.png
  • Dirty DrawersDirty Drawers Registered User
    edited October 2007
    Monaro wrote: »
    They should have given the option of getting blu-ray or not, and 1 or 2 years after the launch of the PS3, once it has a large fan base they could have sold the integrated blu-ray probably close to the same price as what the 40GB will sell at with larger profits.

    That's actually an interesting idea. Considering how drawn out this format war is going to be, I could see that working. Cheaper PS3 now = bigger installed base to start pushing Blu Ray later, to bring it more in line with the PS2/DVD synergy.

    Could you imagine the possible outcome? Selling the PS3 at $399 or $249 out of the gate without blu-ray would have been huge. The PS2 install base would have migrated over much faster. The devs, although they say the PS3 is harder to code for wouldn't have minded as much after seeing the PS3's install base probably surpass the Wii.

    Dirty Drawers on
    Fools shall not be pitied.
  • CouscousCouscous Registered User regular
    edited October 2007
    400 dollars is still too much for most people.

    Couscous on
  • Gaming-ModuleGaming-Module Registered User
    edited October 2007
    Selling the add-on for Blu-ray seperate would have allowed them to sell THAT at a huge loss and leave the console itself alone, but they would have had to sacrifice use of Blu-ray in games, which I still think is pointless. Didn't Bethesda end up massively duplicating code in the PS3 Oblivion port to use up the added space, with only a marginal improvement in load times?

    Here's an idea and a solution to the real reason that the HD consoles and formats aren't taking off. Instead of making the console the trojan horse and incurring damage on that side of the business, why not just slash the prices on their HDTV's by $200-300, thus starting a massive price war with the other display manufacturers. It's not like they would tank.

    I bet that would spur massive HDTV adoption, which would push more sales of consoles and movie players that use the format, and I bet in the end the increased volume would cushion everybody from the slashed margins.

    But that's good business sense, so I don't expect it to happen...

    Gaming-Module on
  • LewiePLewieP Registered User regular
    edited October 2007
    I imagine that the losses from dropping the price in TV's would be much greater.

    Much greater

    LewieP on
  • DaedalusDaedalus Registered User regular
    edited October 2007
    Plus, no Sony TV price drop could undercut Visio, and if you aren't the cheapest then nobody cares how much it costs; you're operating on a reputation of "quality".

    Daedalus on
  • Dirty DrawersDirty Drawers Registered User
    edited October 2007
    I agree Mouse, $400 is still too much for most people. Although when it came time to choose between a 399 Xbox360 or a $399 PS3, I think most of the fan base would have gone with PS3 because of the PS2's history.

    I would take out Blu-Ray and instead integrate another 512 RAM. That would have trumped the competition on hardware, kept the price competitive at $399, or even $349 and still have a good library of games as well as the ability to create "next gen" games without the memory bottleneck. I don't think I would slash HDTV prices, they're already slashing prices due to the competition. I don't know what the Sony execs are thinking, but it looks like they're being too conventional instead of thinking outside the box.

    Dirty Drawers on
    Fools shall not be pitied.
  • shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    edited October 2007
    They can't really drop the BlueRay, since all the games come on BlueRay disks.

    shryke on
  • DaedalusDaedalus Registered User regular
    edited October 2007
    shryke wrote: »
    They can't really drop the BlueRay, since all the games come on BlueRay disks.

    They mean if they had a DeLorean with a flux capacitor and were also in charge of Sony, etc.

    Daedalus on
  • Dirty DrawersDirty Drawers Registered User
    edited October 2007
    Daedalus wrote: »
    shryke wrote: »
    They can't really drop the BlueRay, since all the games come on BlueRay disks.

    They mean if they had a DeLorean with a flux capacitor and were also in charge of Sony, etc.

    LOL I didn't think about that. Oh well, looks like they dug themselves a good hole. Unless they want to regress to dvd, which would pretty much destroy them with cost and and more bad reputation.

    Dirty Drawers on
    Fools shall not be pitied.
  • DaedalusDaedalus Registered User regular
    edited October 2007
    Yeah, I don't know what the fuck I'd do if I was in charge of Sony right now.
    embezzle as much money as I could before I got canned, probably

    Daedalus on
  • LewiePLewieP Registered User regular
    edited October 2007
    Daedalus wrote: »
    Yeah, I don't know what the fuck I'd do if I was in charge of Sony right now.
    embezzle as much money as I could before I got canned, probably

    I would do that, then see how many random SKUs I could get away with making before I got fired.

    $600 100gb with Full hardware bc and 18 usb ports
    $250 10gb with no BC and ships with a controller with "dodgy square buttons"
    $190,000 400gb with full hardware BC and bundled with Duke Nukem Forever.

    LewieP on
  • ZekZek Registered User regular
    edited October 2007
    Obviously it's too late now to make any real changes to the system. Sony just has to play with the hand they're dealt. Except they weren't really dealt it so much as they had the chance to hand-pick cards from the deck and still only ended up with a pair.

    Zek on
  • VoodooVVoodooV Registered User regular
    edited October 2007
    what's that? the PS3 is going down in price? Well hrm, maybe ill have to rethink my....

    What's that? BC is gone? oh..well..nevermind.

    lol Sony

    VoodooV on
  • Dirty DrawersDirty Drawers Registered User
    edited October 2007
    LewieP wrote: »
    Daedalus wrote: »
    Yeah, I don't know what the fuck I'd do if I was in charge of Sony right now.
    embezzle as much money as I could before I got canned, probably

    I would do that, then see how many random SKUs I could get away with making before I got fired.

    $600 100gb with Full hardware bc and 18 usb ports
    $250 10gb with no BC and ships with a controller with "dodgy square buttons"
    $190,000 400gb with full hardware BC and bundled with Duke Nukem Forever.

    When questioned about the $190,000 400GB SKU, you can simply remind them that it's comparable to eating at a high priced restaurant or a fast food joint.

    Dirty Drawers on
    Fools shall not be pitied.
  • jothkijothki Registered User regular
    edited October 2007
    LewieP wrote: »
    Daedalus wrote: »
    Yeah, I don't know what the fuck I'd do if I was in charge of Sony right now.
    embezzle as much money as I could before I got canned, probably

    I would do that, then see how many random SKUs I could get away with making before I got fired.

    $600 100gb with Full hardware bc and 18 usb ports
    $250 10gb with no BC and ships with a controller with "dodgy square buttons"
    $190,000 400gb with full hardware BC and bundled with Duke Nukem Forever.

    When questioned about the $190,000 400GB SKU, you can simply remind them that it's comparable to eating at a high priced restaurant or a fast food joint.

    Don't forget the $700 version with no actual hardware, just dozens of USB and HDMI ports.

    jothki on
  • LewiePLewieP Registered User regular
    edited October 2007
    jothki wrote: »
    Don't forget the $700 version with no actual hardware, just dozens of USB and HDMI ports.

    and rumble.

    LewieP on
  • WoodroezWoodroez Registered User regular
    edited October 2007
    You know, I'm sure someone's posted this before, but in case anyone missed it, the latest Game Informer (Cover story: Brutal Legend) on page 37, and I
    :
    Sony has not given up on its workhorse console the PS2(sic). The company has announced a limited edition white PS2 bundled with karaoke title SingStar Pop and two USB mics. The bundle goes on sale this November for $149.99.

    Now, maybe I'm thinking about this the wrong way, but it seems kinda backwards to me. They took what I believed to be excessive steps to make PS3 purchasers focus on PS3 games, but they also are sending out the message "Hey, don't forget the PS2!"

    Then again, the USB mics that come with the PS2 bundle won't work on the 40gig PS3, so I guess they have their reasons.

    Woodroez on
    858213-butcher-2.jpg
  • Bionic MonkeyBionic Monkey Registered User, ClubPA
    edited October 2007
    Monaro wrote: »
    They should have given the option of getting blu-ray or not, and 1 or 2 years after the launch of the PS3, once it has a large fan base they could have sold the integrated blu-ray probably close to the same price as what the 40GB will sell at with larger profits.

    That's actually an interesting idea. Considering how drawn out this format war is going to be, I could see that working. Cheaper PS3 now = bigger installed base to start pushing Blu Ray later, to bring it more in line with the PS2/DVD synergy.

    Could you imagine the possible outcome? Selling the PS3 at $399 or $249 out of the gate without blu-ray would have been huge. The PS2 install base would have migrated over much faster. The devs, although they say the PS3 is harder to code for wouldn't have minded as much after seeing the PS3's install base probably surpass the Wii.

    Never would have happened. It might have blown the 360 out of the water, but the Wii is in a whole other league that the PS3, even on it's best game, can't hope to compete with.

    Bionic Monkey on
    sig_megas_armed.jpg
  • augustaugust where you come from is gone Registered User regular
    edited October 2007
    So... why does Sony make consoles hard to code for? Cost reasons? I remember these complaints around the time of the ps2 launch which explained while some early Dreacast ports looked worse than the originals.

    august on
    Pac Man's character is difficult to explain even to the Japanese -- he is an innocent character. He hasn't been educated to discern between good and evil. He acts more like a small child than a grown-up person. Think of him as a child learning in the course of his daily activities. If someone tells him guns are evil, he would be the type to rush out and eat guns. But he would most probably eat any gun, even the pistols of policemen who need them.
  • Bionic MonkeyBionic Monkey Registered User, ClubPA
    edited October 2007
    So, can anybody with an actual 40 gig PS3 confirm something for me, because I keep hearing contradictory claims. Does it connect to the internet wirelessly, or do you still need to plug an ethernet cable into it?

    Bionic Monkey on
    sig_megas_armed.jpg
  • NevaNeva Registered User
    edited October 2007
    august wrote: »
    So... why does Sony make consoles hard to code for? Cost reasons? I remember these complaints around the time of the ps2 launch which explained while some early Dreacast ports looked worse than the originals.

    Most ports to the Wii look worse than the originals, but I don't think it's because the Wii is hard to code for.

    Neva on
    SC2 Beta: Neva.ling

    "Everyone who is capable of logical thought should be able to see why you shouldn't sell lifetime subscriptions to an MMO. Cell phone companies and drug dealers don't offer lifetime subscriptions either, guess why?" - Mugaaz
  • augustaugust where you come from is gone Registered User regular
    edited October 2007
    Neva wrote: »
    august wrote: »
    So... why does Sony make consoles hard to code for? Cost reasons? I remember these complaints around the time of the ps2 launch which explained while some early Dreacast ports looked worse than the originals.

    Most ports to the Wii look worse than the originals, but I don't think it's because the Wii is hard to code for.

    So you're saying that the PS2/3 is in fact not hard to code for? It seems to be the prevailing wisdom, but hell if I know if it's true or not.

    What ports to the Wii are you talking about, by the way?

    august on
    Pac Man's character is difficult to explain even to the Japanese -- he is an innocent character. He hasn't been educated to discern between good and evil. He acts more like a small child than a grown-up person. Think of him as a child learning in the course of his daily activities. If someone tells him guns are evil, he would be the type to rush out and eat guns. But he would most probably eat any gun, even the pistols of policemen who need them.
  • NevaNeva Registered User
    edited October 2007
    august wrote: »
    Neva wrote: »
    august wrote: »
    So... why does Sony make consoles hard to code for? Cost reasons? I remember these complaints around the time of the ps2 launch which explained while some early Dreacast ports looked worse than the originals.

    Most ports to the Wii look worse than the originals, but I don't think it's because the Wii is hard to code for.

    So you're saying that the PS2/3 is in fact not hard to code for? It seems to be the prevailing wisdom, but hell if I know if it's true or not.

    What ports to the Wii are you talking about, by the way?

    I was saying that crappy looking ports doesn't exactly equal poor architecture.

    As for the games, there are a quiet a few like Call of Duty 3 {which is just funny at times, specially with the zombie faces}, but most of them are games few people care about on the Wii like NBA 08 {which does have slightly better models then the PS2, but just about horrible everything else} and Dave Mirra's BMX {which I doubt even the people that made it care about it}, or games you can't exactly call ports like Far Cry.

    Neva on
    SC2 Beta: Neva.ling

    "Everyone who is capable of logical thought should be able to see why you shouldn't sell lifetime subscriptions to an MMO. Cell phone companies and drug dealers don't offer lifetime subscriptions either, guess why?" - Mugaaz
  • StriferStrifer Registered User
    edited October 2007
    Sony should have waited a year so that the titles would come out and then they could generate a bigger momentum right now. It might have been a bad decision to wait, but, in hindsight, it wasn't exactly a stellar one to release it (then) either. Especially with the whole "RIIIIIIIDGE RAAAAAAAAAACEEEEEER" thing going on.

    Strifer on
    MikoSuikaLine.jpg
  • cloudeaglecloudeagle Registered User regular
    edited October 2007
    Actually, the PS2 was a pain in the ass to program for too. The thing is, it was the market leader at the time by a HUGE margin, so people making cross-platform games sucked up, made it the lead platform, and dove in, because they knew it was worth it.

    The PS3 is an even bigger pain in the ass to program for, because you've got the multicore Cell they wanted to incorporate so as to have the biggest epeen. And games like Sonic, Unreal 3 and GTA4 were delayed mainly because it's so much of a pain to get things working on that system. Only this time, with Sony in third, there's a real danger that developers will say "fuck it, it's too much effort for too few sales," and drop the PS3 version entirely.

    cloudeagle on
    Switch: 3947-4890-9293
  • HenroidHenroid Radio Demon Internet HellRegistered User regular
    edited October 2007
    cloudeagle wrote: »
    Actually, the PS2 was a pain in the ass to program for too. The thing is, it was the market leader at the time by a HUGE margin, so people making cross-platform games sucked up, made it the lead platform, and dove in, because they knew it was worth it.

    The PS3 is an even bigger pain in the ass to program for, because you've got the multicore Cell they wanted to incorporate so as to have the biggest epeen. And games like Sonic, Unreal 3 and GTA4 were delayed mainly because it's so much of a pain to get things working on that system. Only this time, with Sony in third, there's a real danger that developers will say "fuck it, it's too much effort for too few sales," and drop the PS3 version entirely.

    Hence the news recently about them asking devs to not abandon their platform.

    People in here were talking about $400 being too much for a console. I think $400 is the highest acceptable price as far as middle America goes. There's lots of people with X360s now. If Sony had originally launched the PS3 for $400 it would've sold just fine.

    I liked the idea that selling it at such a loss would've bolstered the strength of the blu-ray format. This format war is such shit. Though, it only seems that way because the video game industry got used as the launch site for it.

    Henroid on
    Centrism is just the cowardly way to be a bigot w/o being explicit about it.
    American politics isn't 4D chess, it's just if you give a shit about other people or not.
  • WybornWyborn GET EQUIPPED Registered User regular
    edited October 2007
    Neva wrote: »
    august wrote: »
    So... why does Sony make consoles hard to code for? Cost reasons? I remember these complaints around the time of the ps2 launch which explained while some early Dreacast ports looked worse than the originals.

    Most ports to the Wii look worse than the originals, but I don't think it's because the Wii is hard to code for.

    But, uh...the PS3 isn't two Gamecubes taped together :|

    Wyborn on
    dN0T6ur.png
  • augustaugust where you come from is gone Registered User regular
    edited October 2007
    Wyborn wrote: »
    Neva wrote: »
    august wrote: »
    So... why does Sony make consoles hard to code for? Cost reasons? I remember these complaints around the time of the ps2 launch which explained while some early Dreacast ports looked worse than the originals.

    Most ports to the Wii look worse than the originals, but I don't think it's because the Wii is hard to code for.

    But, uh...the PS3 isn't two Gamecubes taped together :|

    Way to miss the point.

    august on
    Pac Man's character is difficult to explain even to the Japanese -- he is an innocent character. He hasn't been educated to discern between good and evil. He acts more like a small child than a grown-up person. Think of him as a child learning in the course of his daily activities. If someone tells him guns are evil, he would be the type to rush out and eat guns. But he would most probably eat any gun, even the pistols of policemen who need them.
  • The_ScarabThe_Scarab Registered User regular
    edited October 2007
    Because Sony uses nearly all proprietary hardware, whereas the Wii and 360 are basically tiny computers packaged together.

    This is being really simplistic of course.

    The_Scarab on
    scarab you have mental problems
  • KenninatorKenninator Registered User regular
    edited October 2007
    On the subject of blu-ray versus HD dvd, I hope neither of them win. They just don't seem important to me.

    Part of the reason the ps2 sold so well was because it was a cheap dvd player, right? The ps3 is a cheaper blu-ray player, but the difference between blu-ray and dvd doesn't seem nearly as drastic as the difference between dvd and vhs, to the average consumer anyway. It just hasn't seemed like that big of a leap to me.

    Kenninator on
  • HenroidHenroid Radio Demon Internet HellRegistered User regular
    edited October 2007
    Kenninator wrote: »
    On the subject of blu-ray versus HD dvd, I hope neither of them win. They just don't seem important to me.

    Part of the reason the ps2 sold so well was because it was a cheap dvd player, right? The ps3 is a cheaper blu-ray player, but the difference between blu-ray and dvd doesn't seem nearly as drastic as the difference between dvd and vhs, to the average consumer anyway. It just hasn't seemed like that big of a leap to me.

    It isn't necessarily a format war to end DVD. It's a format war to find out who is going to be at the top of the high quality stuff. Frankly, I'm fine with DVD myself as well and don't care for HD-DVD or Blu-Ray.

    Henroid on
    Centrism is just the cowardly way to be a bigot w/o being explicit about it.
    American politics isn't 4D chess, it's just if you give a shit about other people or not.
  • WybornWyborn GET EQUIPPED Registered User regular
    edited October 2007
    august wrote: »
    Wyborn wrote: »
    Neva wrote: »
    august wrote: »
    So... why does Sony make consoles hard to code for? Cost reasons? I remember these complaints around the time of the ps2 launch which explained while some early Dreacast ports looked worse than the originals.

    Most ports to the Wii look worse than the originals, but I don't think it's because the Wii is hard to code for.

    But, uh...the PS3 isn't two Gamecubes taped together :|

    Way to miss the point.

    I kid, I kid, yeesh. I know he's talknig about PS2 -> Wii, not 360/PS3 -> Wii.

    I think publisher/developer laziness is pretty universal.

    Wyborn on
    dN0T6ur.png
  • EclecticGrooveEclecticGroove Registered User regular
    edited October 2007
    Henroid wrote: »

    It isn't necessarily a format war to end DVD. It's a format war to find out who is going to be at the top of the high quality stuff. Frankly, I'm fine with DVD myself as well and don't care for HD-DVD or Blu-Ray.

    But it is a war to find the successor to DVD. Just like the last one was about the successor to VHS.

    However, your views on the importance of Blu Ray and HD DVD are pretty much the norm.

    The difference between DVD and the 2 competing formats on an SD set are almost non existent for most people. Even on HD sets many people don't see much of a difference. Not that there is not one mind you, but the perception of improvement is not as great is it was from VHS- DVD. This goes doubly so since many HD TV's and other devices can do passable to very good upscaling of DVD's for HD sets. This creates a loss of perceived value for the 2 new formats, and that doesn't even take into account other factors like the smaller footprint and easier use advantage DVD had over VHS (which is now on equal ground between DVD and Blu ray/HD DVD of course).

    It is quite possible neither format will "win", but Sony should have played the safe route like MS did. Not only would they have had a cheaper system to entice buyers, but if Blu ray does not take off, then they would not be stuck with a lame duck.

    If HD DVD flops, not a big deal, MS can release a Blu Ray drive attachment for the 360. If Blu ray fails, Sony is stuck making them for their PS3's no matter what.

    EclecticGroove on
  • shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    edited October 2007
    The new format war is stupid on all levels, and I'm betting on no one winning. HD-DVD/BlueRay just aren't different enough from DVD for most people to warrant the time and effort and money to switch. They look the same (physically), they work the same, their everything the same, except the new ones look alot nicer if you've got a really expensive TV.

    shryke on
  • HenroidHenroid Radio Demon Internet HellRegistered User regular
    edited October 2007
    Just a quick note: The successor bit, that's true. But it isn't going to happen for a long time. That is, DVD being abandoned.

    Henroid on
    Centrism is just the cowardly way to be a bigot w/o being explicit about it.
    American politics isn't 4D chess, it's just if you give a shit about other people or not.
  • augustaugust where you come from is gone Registered User regular
    edited October 2007
    Wyborn wrote: »
    august wrote: »
    Wyborn wrote: »
    Neva wrote: »
    august wrote: »
    So... why does Sony make consoles hard to code for? Cost reasons? I remember these complaints around the time of the ps2 launch which explained while some early Dreacast ports looked worse than the originals.

    Most ports to the Wii look worse than the originals, but I don't think it's because the Wii is hard to code for.

    But, uh...the PS3 isn't two Gamecubes taped together :|

    Way to miss the point.

    I kid, I kid, yeesh. I know he's talknig about PS2 -> Wii, not 360/PS3 -> Wii.

    I think publisher/developer laziness is pretty universal.

    Or maybe they're in a business to make money, and programming for a needlessly difficult format looses them money.

    august on
    Pac Man's character is difficult to explain even to the Japanese -- he is an innocent character. He hasn't been educated to discern between good and evil. He acts more like a small child than a grown-up person. Think of him as a child learning in the course of his daily activities. If someone tells him guns are evil, he would be the type to rush out and eat guns. But he would most probably eat any gun, even the pistols of policemen who need them.
  • DarkCrawlerDarkCrawler Registered User regular
    edited October 2007
    august wrote: »
    Wyborn wrote: »
    august wrote: »
    Wyborn wrote: »
    Neva wrote: »
    august wrote: »
    So... why does Sony make consoles hard to code for? Cost reasons? I remember these complaints around the time of the ps2 launch which explained while some early Dreacast ports looked worse than the originals.

    Most ports to the Wii look worse than the originals, but I don't think it's because the Wii is hard to code for.

    But, uh...the PS3 isn't two Gamecubes taped together :|

    Way to miss the point.

    I kid, I kid, yeesh. I know he's talknig about PS2 -> Wii, not 360/PS3 -> Wii.

    I think publisher/developer laziness is pretty universal.

    Or maybe they're in a business to make money, and programming for a needlessly difficult format looses them money.

    Don't know, PS3 has sold about five million consoles, I think abadoning all of that still would take away quite a big part of sales.

    DarkCrawler on
  • WybornWyborn GET EQUIPPED Registered User regular
    edited October 2007
    august wrote: »
    Wyborn wrote: »
    august wrote: »
    Wyborn wrote: »
    Neva wrote: »
    august wrote: »
    So... why does Sony make consoles hard to code for? Cost reasons? I remember these complaints around the time of the ps2 launch which explained while some early Dreacast ports looked worse than the originals.

    Most ports to the Wii look worse than the originals, but I don't think it's because the Wii is hard to code for.

    But, uh...the PS3 isn't two Gamecubes taped together :|

    Way to miss the point.

    I kid, I kid, yeesh. I know he's talknig about PS2 -> Wii, not 360/PS3 -> Wii.

    I think publisher/developer laziness is pretty universal.

    Or maybe they're in a business to make money, and programming for a needlessly difficult format looses them money.

    Absolutely, but I think the matter here was concerning crappy Wii ports. Unless programming decent motion controls is a hell of a lot harder and more expensive than I think it is.

    Wyborn on
    dN0T6ur.png
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