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Posts

  • TheSonicRetardTheSonicRetard Registered User regular
    edited October 2007
    The funny thing about the PS3 being a monster to code for?

    Being a snap to code for was the biggest draw of the PSX. It was one of the first consoles ever that came with an SDK that you wrote code in C++ for.

    Poetic irony - sony beat an incredibly hard to code for machine by being easy to code for. Now their incredibly hard to code for machine is being beaten by an easy to code for machine.

    TheSonicRetard on
  • HenroidHenroid Radio Demon Internet HellRegistered User regular
    edited October 2007
    The funny thing about the PS3 being a monster to code for?

    Being a snap to code for was the biggest draw of the PSX. It was one of the first consoles ever that came with an SDK that you wrote code in C++ for.

    Poetic irony - sony beat an incredibly hard to code for machine by being easy to code for. Now their incredibly hard to code for machine is being beaten by an easy to code for machine.

    What's an SDK?

    Henroid on
    Centrism is just the cowardly way to be a bigot w/o being explicit about it.
    American politics isn't 4D chess, it's just if you give a shit about other people or not.
  • DusdaDusda is ashamed of this post Registered User regular
    edited October 2007
    The moral of the story? We programmers are lazy.

    Dusda on
  • augustaugust where you come from is gone Registered User regular
    edited October 2007
    Henroid wrote: »
    The funny thing about the PS3 being a monster to code for?

    Being a snap to code for was the biggest draw of the PSX. It was one of the first consoles ever that came with an SDK that you wrote code in C++ for.

    Poetic irony - sony beat an incredibly hard to code for machine by being easy to code for. Now their incredibly hard to code for machine is being beaten by an easy to code for machine.

    What's an SDK?

    Software Developer Kit.

    I think.

    august on
    Pac Man's character is difficult to explain even to the Japanese -- he is an innocent character. He hasn't been educated to discern between good and evil. He acts more like a small child than a grown-up person. Think of him as a child learning in the course of his daily activities. If someone tells him guns are evil, he would be the type to rush out and eat guns. But he would most probably eat any gun, even the pistols of policemen who need them.
  • HenroidHenroid Radio Demon Internet HellRegistered User regular
    edited October 2007
    august wrote: »
    Henroid wrote: »
    The funny thing about the PS3 being a monster to code for?

    Being a snap to code for was the biggest draw of the PSX. It was one of the first consoles ever that came with an SDK that you wrote code in C++ for.

    Poetic irony - sony beat an incredibly hard to code for machine by being easy to code for. Now their incredibly hard to code for machine is being beaten by an easy to code for machine.

    What's an SDK?

    Software Developer Kit.

    I think.

    Oh, durr, that'd make sense.

    Henroid on
    Centrism is just the cowardly way to be a bigot w/o being explicit about it.
    American politics isn't 4D chess, it's just if you give a shit about other people or not.
  • Inglorious CoyoteInglorious Coyote Registered User
    edited October 2007
    On another forum I frequent a couple dudes who work for various game developers hang out, and they've both had mini rants about what a pain in the ass the PS3 is to program for, where as the 360 is infinitely easier because IIR the machine works on Direct X, and MS has spent years working on tools to help PC developers make the most of Direct X, and all that transfers over pretty easily.

    No idea how the Wii is on the developer spectrum.

    Inglorious Coyote on
  • Bionic MonkeyBionic Monkey Registered User, ClubPA
    edited October 2007
    Kenninator wrote: »
    On the subject of blu-ray versus HD dvd, I hope neither of them win. They just don't seem important to me.

    Part of the reason the ps2 sold so well was because it was a cheap dvd player, right? The ps3 is a cheaper blu-ray player, but the difference between blu-ray and dvd doesn't seem nearly as drastic as the difference between dvd and vhs, to the average consumer anyway. It just hasn't seemed like that big of a leap to me.

    There's another key difference between the PS2's DVD player, and the PS3's blu-ray player. When the PS2 was released, DVD's were an established market and already on their way to replacing VHS. The cost of adding DVD functionality was minimal to Sony because costs had already come down, so they included it. Blu-ray was, more or less, kicked off at the same time as the PS3, had direct competition from HD-DVD, and had substantial added cost to the price of the players.

    Bionic Monkey on
    sig_megas_armed.jpg
  • MKRMKR Registered User regular
    edited October 2007
    Henroid wrote: »
    The funny thing about the PS3 being a monster to code for?

    Being a snap to code for was the biggest draw of the PSX. It was one of the first consoles ever that came with an SDK that you wrote code in C++ for.

    Poetic irony - sony beat an incredibly hard to code for machine by being easy to code for. Now their incredibly hard to code for machine is being beaten by an easy to code for machine.

    What's an SDK?

    A set of tools and libraries that makes programming easier.

    MKR on
  • The Black HunterThe Black Hunter Registered User regular
    edited October 2007
    You can't sell the PS3 without bluray.

    it's what the games run on.

    When it comes down to coding, the PS3's principles are different, they aren't just an update of what came before. This isn't neccesarily a bad thing, you can do some great stuff with the 360, but odds are you can do more with the PS3.

    The Black Hunter on
  • durandal4532durandal4532 Registered User regular
    edited October 2007
    You can't sell the PS3 without bluray.

    it's what the games run on.

    When it comes down to coding, the PS3's principles are different, they aren't just an update of what came before. This isn't neccesarily a bad thing, you can do some great stuff with the 360, but odds are you can do more with the PS3.

    But that's the basic problem: The fact that it's hard to code and that they're not building up the necessary userbase to make themselves attractive to developers means the amount of nifty that gets squeezed out of the technology remains low. It's a bit of a catch-22.

    durandal4532 on
    Take a moment to donate what you can to the International Rescue Committee, the National Immigration Law Center, the Southern Poverty Law Center, and the American Civil Liberties Union. There has never been a more urgent moment to do so.
  • LewiePLewieP Registered User regular
    edited October 2007
    No idea how the Wii is on the developer spectrum.


    I think that the deal with the Wii is that it is very similar to a Gamecube (1.5 olol) in architecture, so any experiance gained from developing on GC can be carried over to the Wii.

    LewieP on
  • EclecticGrooveEclecticGroove Registered User regular
    edited October 2007
    You can't sell the PS3 without bluray.

    it's what the games run on.

    When it comes down to coding, the PS3's principles are different, they aren't just an update of what came before. This isn't neccesarily a bad thing, you can do some great stuff with the 360, but odds are you can do more with the PS3.

    You can't sell a PS3 without Blu ray now, but they damn well could have created it without blu ray. All it is is a storage medium.


    And as for the PS3 vs 360 in terms of ultimate potential... I'm sure that's true. But how much work is it to get to that point ans when will the average games be different enough to notice a real difference between the 2?

    The PS2 was no doubt more powerful than the Dreamcast, yet it took a good year + to start seeing PS2 games that really showed that difference.
    The gap between the 360 and PS3 is far, far less. In terms of which can pull off the prettiest games, I think that's going to be far more about the publishers working on the games than the bragging rights of the hardware itself.

    EclecticGroove on
  • durandal4532durandal4532 Registered User regular
    edited October 2007
    Also, wasn't the Gamecube the most powerful last gen?

    At least, it seems to look a lot nicer than my PS2.

    durandal4532 on
    Take a moment to donate what you can to the International Rescue Committee, the National Immigration Law Center, the Southern Poverty Law Center, and the American Civil Liberties Union. There has never been a more urgent moment to do so.
  • TheSonicRetardTheSonicRetard Registered User regular
    edited October 2007
    Also, wasn't the Gamecube the most powerful last gen?

    At least, it seems to look a lot nicer than my PS2.

    no, the xbox was.

    TheSonicRetard on
  • OhtsamOhtsam Registered User regular
    edited October 2007
    Also, wasn't the Gamecube the most powerful last gen?

    At least, it seems to look a lot nicer than my PS2.

    no, the xbox was.

    yeah it was Xbox>GC>PS2

    Ohtsam on
  • The Black HunterThe Black Hunter Registered User regular
    edited October 2007
    You can't sell the PS3 without bluray.

    it's what the games run on.

    When it comes down to coding, the PS3's principles are different, they aren't just an update of what came before. This isn't neccesarily a bad thing, you can do some great stuff with the 360, but odds are you can do more with the PS3.

    You can't sell a PS3 without Blu ray now, but they damn well could have created it without blu ray. All it is is a storage medium.


    And as for the PS3 vs 360 in terms of ultimate potential... I'm sure that's true. But how much work is it to get to that point ans when will the average games be different enough to notice a real difference between the 2?

    The PS2 was no doubt more powerful than the Dreamcast, yet it took a good year + to start seeing PS2 games that really showed that difference.
    The gap between the 360 and PS3 is far, far less. In terms of which can pull off the prettiest games, I think that's going to be far more about the publishers working on the games than the bragging rights of the hardware itself.

    People would be immeasurably pissed, like, 1000x what they are now, if they bought a PS3 without bluray, only to have all the games after a year come out on blu-ray.

    I know that I would wreck my shit, my neighbours shit and have it climax in driving a car through the mall into the store where I bought it.

    And yes, I am worried about that, and I know the PS3 is hard pressed to pull a victory without a miracle game (much like Halo was to the Xbox. Who knows, PS3 could get its miracle.

    If Warhawk actually had a Campaign mode, then good lord, we could have had it early.

    EDIT: I remember seeing a "power score" for last gen, and GC was second, though both it and the Xbox were far ahead of the PS2

    The Black Hunter on
  • durandal4532durandal4532 Registered User regular
    edited October 2007
    Ohtsam wrote: »
    Also, wasn't the Gamecube the most powerful last gen?

    At least, it seems to look a lot nicer than my PS2.

    no, the xbox was.

    yeah it was Xbox>GC>PS2

    Ah, gotcha. Well, the point stands, anyways. The PS2 was the shittiest hardware last gen, and yet it's one of the most successful consoles ever.

    Not to say sweet hardware can't be a giant advantage, but you need developers working to make games for your machine or no one really gives a crap.

    durandal4532 on
    Take a moment to donate what you can to the International Rescue Committee, the National Immigration Law Center, the Southern Poverty Law Center, and the American Civil Liberties Union. There has never been a more urgent moment to do so.
  • shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    edited October 2007
    As fa as I know, while the PS3 may have a more "advanced" processor that can do more interesting things (and is therefore more annoying to do shit with), the 360 has much better and faster graphics setup. It's more of a trade off then most people think.

    shryke on
  • OhtsamOhtsam Registered User regular
    edited October 2007
    You can't sell the PS3 without bluray.

    it's what the games run on.

    When it comes down to coding, the PS3's principles are different, they aren't just an update of what came before. This isn't neccesarily a bad thing, you can do some great stuff with the 360, but odds are you can do more with the PS3.

    You can't sell a PS3 without Blu ray now, but they damn well could have created it without blu ray. All it is is a storage medium.


    And as for the PS3 vs 360 in terms of ultimate potential... I'm sure that's true. But how much work is it to get to that point ans when will the average games be different enough to notice a real difference between the 2?

    The PS2 was no doubt more powerful than the Dreamcast, yet it took a good year + to start seeing PS2 games that really showed that difference.
    The gap between the 360 and PS3 is far, far less. In terms of which can pull off the prettiest games, I think that's going to be far more about the publishers working on the games than the bragging rights of the hardware itself.

    People would be immeasurably pissed, like, 1000x what they are now, if they bought a PS3 without bluray, only to have all the games after a year come out on blu-ray.

    I know that I would wreck my shit, my neighbours shit and have it climax in driving a car through the mall into the store where I bought it.

    And yes, I am worried about that, and I know the PS3 is hard pressed to pull a victory without a miracle game (much like Halo was to the Xbox. Who knows, PS3 could get its miracle.

    If Warhawk actually had a Campaign mode, then good lord, we could have had it early.

    EDIT: I remember seeing a "power score" for last gen, and GC was second, though both it and the Xbox were far ahead of the PS2

    If they created it without blu-ray what would've happened is they release a blu-ray add-on for movies not for gaming just like microsoft has done.

    Ohtsam on
  • BehemothBehemoth Registered User regular
    edited October 2007
    You can't sell the PS3 without bluray.

    it's what the games run on.

    When it comes down to coding, the PS3's principles are different, they aren't just an update of what came before. This isn't neccesarily a bad thing, you can do some great stuff with the 360, but odds are you can do more with the PS3.

    You can't sell a PS3 without Blu ray now, but they damn well could have created it without blu ray. All it is is a storage medium.


    And as for the PS3 vs 360 in terms of ultimate potential... I'm sure that's true. But how much work is it to get to that point ans when will the average games be different enough to notice a real difference between the 2?

    The PS2 was no doubt more powerful than the Dreamcast, yet it took a good year + to start seeing PS2 games that really showed that difference.
    The gap between the 360 and PS3 is far, far less. In terms of which can pull off the prettiest games, I think that's going to be far more about the publishers working on the games than the bragging rights of the hardware itself.

    People would be immeasurably pissed, like, 1000x what they are now, if they bought a PS3 without bluray, only to have all the games after a year come out on blu-ray.

    I know that I would wreck my shit, my neighbours shit and have it climax in driving a car through the mall into the store where I bought it.

    And yes, I am worried about that, and I know the PS3 is hard pressed to pull a victory without a miracle game (much like Halo was to the Xbox. Who knows, PS3 could get its miracle.

    If Warhawk actually had a Campaign mode, then good lord, we could have had it early.

    EDIT: I remember seeing a "power score" for last gen, and GC was second, though both it and the Xbox were far ahead of the PS2

    No, he's saying they never should have tried to use Blu-ray at all for PS3 games, there could still be an add-on like the HDDVD drive for the 360. If the PS3 hadn't had blu-ray, then it wouldn't have been so expensive, wouldn't have had production issues early on, and probably would be in a much better position than now.

    As for miracle games, I guess MGS4 will be a system seller to fans of the series (like me) unless Konami decides that they could make more money on the 360 since A) it has a much higher install base and it would be impossible to port to the Wii, and B) the MGS series is more popular in America anyway.

    Behemoth on
    iQbUbQsZXyt8I.png
  • EclecticGrooveEclecticGroove Registered User regular
    edited October 2007
    People would be immeasurably pissed, like, 1000x what they are now, if they bought a PS3 without bluray, only to have all the games after a year come out on blu-ray.

    I know that I would wreck my shit, my neighbours shit and have it climax in driving a car through the mall into the store where I bought it.

    No one was saying to go ahead and put it in... ever.
    The Xbox 360 will never have HD DVD or Blue ray games unless there is some special edition one that comes out for people with the add on drive.

    Had the PS3 forgone Blu ray they would simply pull multiple disk games... like everyone else has done since the original Disk based games. OR, they could leverage their hard drive for installable content for the games that run larger than 9GB.

    And not many games have gone over a single DVD9 yet, so the massive storage space on the Blue ray disks is hardly as big an issue as many would portray it to be.

    EclecticGroove on
  • BakerIsBoredBakerIsBored Registered User
    edited October 2007
    I think this whole thread would be best picked back up in Dec 08' (My mind cannot see what is to come in 09')

    Many games to come, and more games after that and so on... and after each release the dev's become stronger.

    devs are currently lvl 1 noobies next year they should of leveled up a couple times and by 09 should be lvl 5+ :)

    BakerIsBored on
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • The Black HunterThe Black Hunter Registered User regular
    edited October 2007
    I think this whole thread would be best picked back up in Dec 08' (My mind cannot see what is to come in 09')

    Many games to come, and more games after that and so on... and after each release the dev's become stronger.

    devs are currently lvl 1 noobies next year they should of leveled up a couple times and by 09 should be lvl 5+ :)

    Will they be getting +5 SDK?

    Sony needs that stat pretty bad.

    The Black Hunter on
  • FCDFCD Registered User regular
    edited October 2007
    You can't sell the PS3 without bluray.

    it's what the games run on.

    When it comes down to coding, the PS3's principles are different, they aren't just an update of what came before. This isn't neccesarily a bad thing, you can do some great stuff with the 360, but odds are you can do more with the PS3.

    You can't sell a PS3 without Blu ray now, but they damn well could have created it without blu ray. All it is is a storage medium.


    And as for the PS3 vs 360 in terms of ultimate potential... I'm sure that's true. But how much work is it to get to that point ans when will the average games be different enough to notice a real difference between the 2?

    The PS2 was no doubt more powerful than the Dreamcast, yet it took a good year + to start seeing PS2 games that really showed that difference.
    The gap between the 360 and PS3 is far, far less. In terms of which can pull off the prettiest games, I think that's going to be far more about the publishers working on the games than the bragging rights of the hardware itself.

    People would be immeasurably pissed, like, 1000x what they are now, if they bought a PS3 without bluray, only to have all the games after a year come out on blu-ray.

    I know that I would wreck my shit, my neighbours shit and have it climax in driving a car through the mall into the store where I bought it.

    And yes, I am worried about that, and I know the PS3 is hard pressed to pull a victory without a miracle game (much like Halo was to the Xbox. Who knows, PS3 could get its miracle.

    Hoping for a miracle is not at all a viable business plan.

    FCD on
    "If anyone tried to steal your WAX LIPS, you would eat their eyeballs and deliver an angry lecture into their empty sockets." Hearts Boxcars, The Midnight Crew
  • cloudeaglecloudeagle Registered User regular
    edited October 2007
    It's been said before, but the PS3's problems, at least in the beginning, are wrapped up in Blu-ray. Without it, the system would have cost the same as the 360, and likely done as well or better.

    The problem is that people don't give a shit about next-gen DVDs in general, plus Sony can't remove it. The 360 can't add HD-DVD games either... doing either would seriously piss off the market, and that's part of what sank Sega during the whole Sega CD/32X/Saturn fiasco.

    So Sony is stuck with Blu-ray, and that's why they're futzing around with new models and various mutations of BC and whatnot. It seems like Sony is trying every vaguely feasible strategy simultaneously, but that risks confusing/annoying the market with a flood of new models.

    cloudeagle on
    Switch: 3947-4890-9293
  • Xenogears of BoreXenogears of Bore Registered User regular
    edited October 2007
    I do find it funny that the same power conversation about the PS3 is in three different threads right now.

    PS3 is the Saturn, except without the good games and awesome Japanese marketing campaign.

    Xenogears of Bore on
    3DS CODE: 3093-7068-3576
  • Gaming-ModuleGaming-Module Registered User
    edited October 2007

    If Warhawk actually had a Campaign mode, then good lord, we could have had it early.

    Why are you talking about console game formats like they're sports teams and you're a player on one of said teams?

    Gaming-Module on
  • FCDFCD Registered User regular
    edited October 2007
    I do find it funny that the same power conversation about the PS3 is in three different threads right now.

    PS3 is the Saturn, except without the good games and awesome Japanese marketing campaign.

    Pretty much, yeah.

    FCD on
    "If anyone tried to steal your WAX LIPS, you would eat their eyeballs and deliver an angry lecture into their empty sockets." Hearts Boxcars, The Midnight Crew
  • The Black HunterThe Black Hunter Registered User regular
    edited October 2007

    If Warhawk actually had a Campaign mode, then good lord, we could have had it early.

    Why are you talking about console game formats like they're sports teams and you're a player on one of said teams?

    WE as in PS3 owners, and sony.

    It's easier and and simpler than saying "Sony could have increased sales and the owners could feel fulfilled."

    The Black Hunter on
  • Dirty DrawersDirty Drawers Registered User
    edited October 2007
    I find it comical that at the beginning of this console generation everyone was comparing the 360 to Sega, now the PS3 is being compared to Sega.

    Poor Sega, they had such good potential :(

    Dirty Drawers on
    Fools shall not be pitied.
  • FCDFCD Registered User regular
    edited October 2007
    Sony is the new Sega. Karma is a bitch.

    FCD on
    "If anyone tried to steal your WAX LIPS, you would eat their eyeballs and deliver an angry lecture into their empty sockets." Hearts Boxcars, The Midnight Crew
  • ReaperSMSReaperSMS Registered User regular
    edited October 2007
    The 360 and ps3 are not that different as far as actual GPU capability. The 360 is an order of magnitude easier to work with, and the tools are a zillion times better.

    The tools for the ps3 are horrific, and feel like alpha versions of the ps2 tools.

    The Wii's tools aren't the greatest, but a lot of that is sony's fault (they bought SN Systems). Hardware wise, it's a GC with most of the parts that really sucked about the GC removed. The painful bits *now* are mostly figuring out how to keep the asset pipelines similar enough that you don't need two *completely* different teams for the 360 and Wii versions of a title.

    ReaperSMS on
  • HenroidHenroid Radio Demon Internet HellRegistered User regular
    edited October 2007
    FCD wrote: »
    Sony is the new Sega. Karma is a bitch.

    Except Sony didn't start out as a game developer. :P

    Henroid on
    Centrism is just the cowardly way to be a bigot w/o being explicit about it.
    American politics isn't 4D chess, it's just if you give a shit about other people or not.
  • EclecticGrooveEclecticGroove Registered User regular
    edited October 2007
    Henroid wrote: »
    FCD wrote: »
    Sony is the new Sega. Karma is a bitch.

    Except Sony didn't start out as a game developer. :P

    Neither did Sega or Nintendo really. More related to games than Sony sure, but still not video games.

    EclecticGroove on
  • augustaugust where you come from is gone Registered User regular
    edited October 2007
    In five or ten years, if Sony's game division continues to implode, I expect someone sane up in Sony's management to write a really fantastic account of all this. One of those amazing corporate tell-all tragedies about powerful men ruining lives with their hubris and incompetence.

    But Sony will probably limp along for a couple years and start to recover instead. Still: if it comes out, I expect the book to put that one about Carmack and co. to shame.

    august on
    Pac Man's character is difficult to explain even to the Japanese -- he is an innocent character. He hasn't been educated to discern between good and evil. He acts more like a small child than a grown-up person. Think of him as a child learning in the course of his daily activities. If someone tells him guns are evil, he would be the type to rush out and eat guns. But he would most probably eat any gun, even the pistols of policemen who need them.
  • LewiePLewieP Registered User regular
    edited October 2007
    august wrote: »
    In five or ten years, if Sony's game division continues to implode, I expect someone sane up in Sony's management to write a really fantastic account of all this. One of those amazing corporate tell-all tragedies about powerful men ruining lives with their hubris and incompetence.

    But Sony will probably limp along for a couple years and start to recover instead. Still: if it comes out, I expect the book to put that one about Carmack and co. to shame.

    I think I have finaly worked out Sony's plan.

    1. Fail, intentionally, with the PS3 as badly as possible.
    2. Make Book about how the PS3 was a massive failure, and why.
    3. Make millions from book sales.

    LewieP on
  • DragkoniasDragkonias Registered User regular
    edited October 2007
    LewieP wrote: »
    august wrote: »
    In five or ten years, if Sony's game division continues to implode, I expect someone sane up in Sony's management to write a really fantastic account of all this. One of those amazing corporate tell-all tragedies about powerful men ruining lives with their hubris and incompetence.

    But Sony will probably limp along for a couple years and start to recover instead. Still: if it comes out, I expect the book to put that one about Carmack and co. to shame.

    I think I have finaly worked out Sony's plan.

    1. Fail, intentionally, with the PS3 as badly as possible.
    2. Make Book about how the PS3 was a massive failure, and why.
    3. Make millions from book sales.

    Millions...or BILLIONS!(Pinky to mouth)

    Dragkonias on
  • HenroidHenroid Radio Demon Internet HellRegistered User regular
    edited October 2007
    Sooooo Sony is going to open a literary division?

    Henroid on
    Centrism is just the cowardly way to be a bigot w/o being explicit about it.
    American politics isn't 4D chess, it's just if you give a shit about other people or not.
  • CouscousCouscous Registered User regular
    edited October 2007
    august wrote: »
    In five or ten years, if Sony's game division continues to implode, I expect someone sane up in Sony's management to write a really fantastic account of all this. One of those amazing corporate tell-all tragedies about powerful men ruining lives with their hubris and incompetence.

    But Sony will probably limp along for a couple years and start to recover instead. Still: if it comes out, I expect the book to put that one about Carmack and co. to shame.

    I would kill for a book about the 32X, Sega CD, Saturn, and PS3 and what was going through the company's heads when they were making them. I would love to see why the hell Sega thought having the Sega CD in addition to the 32X was a good idea.

    Couscous on
  • EclecticGrooveEclecticGroove Registered User regular
    edited October 2007
    Titmouse wrote: »
    I would kill for a book about the 32X, Sega CD, Saturn, and PS3 and what was going through the company's heads when they were making them. I would love to see why the hell Sega thought having the Sega CD in addition to the 32X was a good idea.

    TSR and others went over that in one of the older threads round here awhile back.

    The Sega CD itself really wasn't an issue (aside from some real lack of dev time) but the 32Xand Saturn were basically butting heads against each other.... was a real mess that.

    EclecticGroove on
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