I don't think I like playing as Phoenix any more... he seems like kind of a jerk now.
"Oh, a decisive witness? I've heard that one before."
He's so darn sure of himself. No wonder he got canned.
Maybe that's why Maya ditched him...
I think Phoenix's overconfidence kind of underlies one of the issues I had with AJ. I mean, in every game, he was always cautious, afraid the the case was this close from being lost, and overall a biting contrast to the prosecution. Then in AJ's flashback, which is only a few months after the end of T&T, he suddenly realizes "I'm motherfucking Phoenix Wright! I don't need to take this shit!"
I might have had an easier time believing it if they had built up his confidence over the first three games, but as it stands, he suddenly decided to acknowledge that he had mad skills and then fucks things up. Seemed way too quick and unnatural.
I disagree...there are quite a few instances in the latter half of JFA and in T&T where he's more self-assured and spots a contradiction straight away. I'm sure at one point he also comments on how he's always beaten the prosecutors - by the end of JFA he was quite dismissive of Franziska's abilities.
Wasn't that also the first time that he faced a prosecutor with less experience than he had? Up to that point he'd only been facing seasoned veterans or prodigies. He probably expected to walk all over Klavier.
Godot had a lot of experience, but none of it was in prosecuting.
I don't think I like playing as Phoenix any more... he seems like kind of a jerk now.
"Oh, a decisive witness? I've heard that one before."
He's so darn sure of himself. No wonder he got canned.
Maybe that's why Maya ditched him...
I think Phoenix's overconfidence kind of underlies one of the issues I had with AJ. I mean, in every game, he was always cautious, afraid the the case was this close from being lost, and overall a biting contrast to the prosecution. Then in AJ's flashback, which is only a few months after the end of T&T, he suddenly realizes "I'm motherfucking Phoenix Wright! I don't need to take this shit!"
I might have had an easier time believing it if they had built up his confidence over the first three games, but as it stands, he suddenly decided to acknowledge that he had mad skills and then fucks things up. Seemed way too quick and unnatural.
I disagree...there are quite a few instances in the latter half of JFA and in T&T where he's more self-assured and spots a contradiction straight away. I'm sure at one point he also comments on how he's always beaten the prosecutors - by the end of JFA he was quite dismissive of Franziska's abilities.
In replaying the games I'm also struck by how caustic and mean he is to Maya sometimes.
Timeline:
Phoenix is 26 in T&T and 33 in AJ, so only a few months can have passed between the end of T&T and the flashback in AJ.
I would say that he did gain some confidence (though with every game he still seemed to forget what a great attorney he really is, to me.), but what he displayed then and in AJ's flashback seem a whole lot different.
In the AJ flashback, he's arrogant and thinks the case is open and shut. Aside from maybe the first case of JFA before getting bonked on the head, I don't recall Phoenix dismissing a case that quickly, and that's not even mentioning that Phoenix got the case the night before and hadn't had any time to do any investigating. He also pretty much blows off Klavier as an inexperienced douche, and though it's tempting to do so when you consider he's a first-time lawyer from a rock band, Phoenix's gone up against all kinds of prodigies and general nobodies (Godot) enough to know better than that.
I mean, the arrogance is key to the story of Phoenix losing his badge, so it needs to be there I suppose. AJ just didn't sell it to me that Phoenix grew this great amount of overconfidence in the span of two or three months. Had it been a couple years, I might have been more accepting.
Of course, that doesn't even compare to the whole "prosecution's been doing that all the damn time but the one time I do it 'Whoopsie, you made a mess, gimme that badge" magic. For me at least.
Omeks on
Online Info (Click Spoiler for More): |Xbox Live Tag: Omeks |PSN Tag:Omeks_R7 |Rock Band:Profile|DLC Collection
I don't think I like playing as Phoenix any more... he seems like kind of a jerk now.
"Oh, a decisive witness? I've heard that one before."
He's so darn sure of himself. No wonder he got canned.
Maybe that's why Maya ditched him...
I think Phoenix's overconfidence kind of underlies one of the issues I had with AJ. I mean, in every game, he was always cautious, afraid the the case was this close from being lost, and overall a biting contrast to the prosecution. Then in AJ's flashback, which is only a few months after the end of T&T, he suddenly realizes "I'm motherfucking Phoenix Wright! I don't need to take this shit!"
I might have had an easier time believing it if they had built up his confidence over the first three games, but as it stands, he suddenly decided to acknowledge that he had mad skills and then fucks things up. Seemed way too quick and unnatural.
I do agree it was rather sudden, but honestly, I was waiting for him to grow some backbone for a game and a half. I was really glad when I got to play as him and he was actually confident for once. Though really, that confidence did screw him over, and I think that's part of what shaped him into the cryptic hobo we see today
I mean you have to think he beat himself up over his hubris for years
I don't think I like playing as Phoenix any more... he seems like kind of a jerk now.
"Oh, a decisive witness? I've heard that one before."
He's so darn sure of himself. No wonder he got canned.
Maybe that's why Maya ditched him...
I think Phoenix's overconfidence kind of underlies one of the issues I had with AJ. I mean, in every game, he was always cautious, afraid the the case was this close from being lost, and overall a biting contrast to the prosecution. Then in AJ's flashback, which is only a few months after the end of T&T, he suddenly realizes "I'm motherfucking Phoenix Wright! I don't need to take this shit!"
I might have had an easier time believing it if they had built up his confidence over the first three games, but as it stands, he suddenly decided to acknowledge that he had mad skills and then fucks things up. Seemed way too quick and unnatural.
I disagree...there are quite a few instances in the latter half of JFA and in T&T where he's more self-assured and spots a contradiction straight away. I'm sure at one point he also comments on how he's always beaten the prosecutors - by the end of JFA he was quite dismissive of Franziska's abilities.
In replaying the games I'm also struck by how caustic and mean he is to Maya sometimes.
Timeline:
Phoenix is 26 in T&T and 33 in AJ, so only a few months can have passed between the end of T&T and the flashback in AJ.
I would say that he did gain some confidence (though with every game he still seemed to forget what a great attorney he really is, to me.), but what he displayed then and in AJ's flashback seem a whole lot different.
In the AJ flashback, he's arrogant and thinks the case is open and shut. Aside from maybe the first case of JFA before getting bonked on the head, I don't recall Phoenix dismissing a case that quickly, and that's not even mentioning that Phoenix got the case the night before and hadn't had any time to do any investigating. He also pretty much blows off Klavier as an inexperienced douche, and though it's tempting to do so when you consider he's a first-time lawyer from a rock band, Phoenix's gone up against all kinds of prodigies and general nobodies (Godot) enough to know better than that.
I mean, the arrogance is key to the story of Phoenix losing his badge, so it needs to be there I suppose. AJ just didn't sell it to me that Phoenix grew this great amount of overconfidence in the span of two or three months. Had it been a couple years, I might have been more accepting.
Of course, that doesn't even compare to the whole "prosecution's been doing that all the damn time but the one time I do it 'Whoopsie, you made a mess, gimme that badge" magic. For me at least.
Is there a prosecutor who actually did use forged evidence? Edgeworth was accused, but it was never proven, and he seems a little too meticulous to do it unintentionally. Franziska was similar to von Karma without the illegal activities, she would just coach witnesses. Godot really only manufactured evidence in the case where he was the real killer, so that kind of made sense.
It's also a little important to understand how Japan's legal system works in an unofficial way. Prosecutor's have to take the bar exam, while anyone can be a defense attorney. Thus, prosecutors were generally considered extremely important, their word law, and the defense was usually presumed to be lying. This has changed in recent years - in 2006, Japan did a lot to encourage people to come in to law by changing the requirements to become an attorney. Still, the postwar ideas of prosecution and defense stick.
This is the idea Gyakuten Saiban is predicated on: Phoenix is the ultimate underdog. He fights for his clients in a world where they're presumed guilty and he's presumed wrong. Him being arrogant is key to his downfall, but it is not entirely him. It's an indictment of the system as well - under the rules he was bound to, he was at fault for the fake evidence, not anyone else. It took him a few years to realize, but the system he fought to protect people under was not a system that he could use any longer. Phoenix realized he, and the legal system, were relics of a past age.
Kee-ripes, that journalist in case four is creeping me out. That way of speaking, the huge eyes, the brush hair, the rosy cheeks over a neon blue five o'clock shadow... I'd much rather stick with Daryan's hair penis, thank you.
I do kinda wish there was a way to recapture the feeling I got from playing through the first game, but that's not really a failing of the series. It was new and exciting for me then, and the formula is still extremely satisfying, but there's just nothing like the first experience.
never forget your first time....
it's true though. in every game, twists are never as shocking as the first game's. it taught me to suspect everyone, no matter who they were.
I do kinda wish there was a way to recapture the feeling I got from playing through the first game, but that's not really a failing of the series. It was new and exciting for me then, and the formula is still extremely satisfying, but there's just nothing like the first experience.
never forget your first time....
it's true though. in every game, twists are never as shocking as the first game's. it taught me to suspect everyone, no matter who they were.
Well, not always... von Karma always seemed like a bastard. Lo and behold, he was.
Though
Gant
was the perfect "seemingly innocent murderer." His personality remains basically the same once you start to suspect him... yet he somehow becomes more and more sinister. Damn, that was a fine case.
I totally agree with NeoGaf poster, especially in the section labelled Flux Capacitors,
but also the whole lack of a support group for Nick. I can't help but shake the feeling that his life went to shit after that trial ended. Where the fuck did everyone go? Especially Maya, who is now just "some kid" to Nick. She used to be his life, and now she barely gets a passing mention. I bet he doesn't even speak to her, or Pearly, or somehow, even Mia. Maya and even Mia were his rocks, his guides, and in his time of need, how did he not go to her? It's like he shat on his old net of friends and started hanging out in seedy bars and making friends with shady ass people.
also, DOOF, hee hee. bottles.
I always assumed that Edgeworth is the only sensible explanation for
Letting Phoenix Wright, a nobody, a poker playing hobo, a disbarred attourney that presented forged evidence in court, head the reform of the judicial system.
Miles must have moved his influences for that. There is no evidence of this, of course, but Phoenix must have used his friends in court to get that position.
I totally agree with NeoGaf poster, especially in the section labelled Flux Capacitors,
but also the whole lack of a support group for Nick. I can't help but shake the feeling that his life went to shit after that trial ended. Where the fuck did everyone go? Especially Maya, who is now just "some kid" to Nick. She used to be his life, and now she barely gets a passing mention. I bet he doesn't even speak to her, or Pearly, or somehow, even Mia. Maya and even Mia were his rocks, his guides, and in his time of need, how did he not go to her? It's like he shat on his old net of friends and started hanging out in seedy bars and making friends with shady ass people.
also, DOOF, hee hee. bottles.
I always assumed that Edgeworth is the only sensible explanation for
Letting Phoenix Wright, a nobody, a poker playing hobo, a disbarred attourney that presented forged evidence in court, head the reform of the judicial system.
Miles must have moved his influences for that. There is no evidence of this, of course, but Phoenix must have used his friends in court to get that position.
He had been studying law in 'Germany', so if the standard localization holds, he was actually studying law in America. Odds are that he was indeed deeply involved in the whole thing.
I have to say, I like JFA more than AJ simply because I haven't finished AJ, the reason not being that I haven't had the chance, but simply because I haven't wanted to. AJ has NO hold on me, story-wise. All of the important, deep, and established characters are thrown to the wind.
This INCLUDES Phoenix Wright, because the Wright we see before us today is NOT the Wright we grew to love. This guy is a dick, and I don't have to know his backstory to know that. I knew it in the first case. The fact that Mia, Maya, and Pearl are gone is inexcusable. They were too important to the last three storylines to simply throw them away like yesterday's garbage, which is exactly what happened. Trucy is a slobbering idoit compared to Maya, in my opinion; the BS she pulled in Case 2 with the fake kidnapping would have never flown in the last 3 games, and here she gets away with it like it happens all the time. Simply put, I have no connection to the characters this time around, and interest in the characters and their well-being was a major reason I loved the past 3 games so much.
I have to say, though, I love the 'Perceive' function, although I wish it didn't hold your hand quite so much. You should be able to 'Perceive' at any time, whether you need to or not, that way you don't ever really know whether you're supposed to present evidence and you just don't get the clues you're getting or if you really can't present anything and thus HAVE to 'Perceive' to keep going.
I have to say, though, I love the 'Perceive' function, although I wish it didn't hold your hand quite so much. You should be able to 'Perceive' at any time, whether you need to or not, that way you don't ever really know whether you're supposed to present evidence and you just don't get the clues you're getting or if you really can't present anything and thus HAVE to 'Perceive' to keep going.
Wow. And I thought Perceive couldn't be more retarded.
Yeah, I would throw the game away, were they to do that.
I have to say, though, I love the 'Perceive' function, although I wish it didn't hold your hand quite so much. You should be able to 'Perceive' at any time, whether you need to or not, that way you don't ever really know whether you're supposed to present evidence and you just don't get the clues you're getting or if you really can't present anything and thus HAVE to 'Perceive' to keep going.
Wow. And I thought Perceive couldn't be more retarded.
Yeah, I would throw the game away, were they to do that.
See, it must just be how I feel like a SUPREME BADASS everytime I catch a tiny twitch in someone's finger or something, and then proceed to beat them senseless with logical deduction. The harder it is to see that little twitch, the more badass I feel, so add that to the fact that I personally think the 'Perceive' function is way too easy, and there you go.
You do know that more familiar faces show up later on in the game, right?
Yeah, I miss the interactions with all the folks we've grown to love in the past three games, but the new cast is all right. Trucy isn't really that much different from Maya, if you get right down to it. And really, how is the
fake kidnapping
in the second case that much worse than, say,
all the wacky spirit channeling? And the fact that she randomly runs off to become a waitress?
Also, having the option to use perceive at any time would be annoying as all hell. Yeah, it's a stretch to have a magic bracelet that vibrates when you have to use it, but you still have to look hard and examine a fair chunk of testimony that goes by veeeeeerrrrrrrryyy sllooooooowwwwwwwwly. Not to mention a large close-up. Going through a novel's worth of text in slow motion? No thank you.
I don't know what it is exactly, but something about Trucy (aside from her unamusing antics) annoys the hell out of me. The stuff Maya pulls in PW1-3 doesn't bother me because
A ) the channeling never actively saves your ass; you still have to do the work (Mia just gives you hints and B ) even though it is major Deus Ex Machina at work, at least we expect it every time because it is what helps keep Maya in character.
And I'm halfway through
case 3 right now; if the past characters I want to see aren't here by now, then I'm not going to get any more motivated anytime soon.
I don't know what it is exactly, but something about Trucy (aside from her unamusing antics) annoys the hell out of me. The stuff Maya pulls in PW1-3 doesn't bother me because
A ) the channeling never actively saves your ass; you still have to do the work (Mia just gives you hints and B ) even though it is major Deus Ex Machina at work, at least we expect it every time because it is what helps keep Maya in character.
I don't know what it is exactly, but something about Trucy (aside from her unamusing antics) annoys the hell out of me. The stuff Maya pulls in PW1-3 doesn't bother me because
A ) the channeling never actively saves your ass; you still have to do the work (Mia just gives you hints and B ) even though it is major Deus Ex Machina at work, at least we expect it every time because it is what helps keep Maya in character.
Case 1-2, the back of the receipt.
Well, to be fair, who'd ever think of turning a piece of paper over.
I think the Perceive system would work better if it were more... optional I guess? Less an alternative to presenting evidence or pressing the witness and more a way to help you tell what you should press or present evidence to. Maybe even provide a small dialog that provides a hint as to what the correct evidence might be (for some of the series' more obtuse trains of logic). At most it should probably open up new lines in testimony. I dunno, I just feel it's a great concept that's kind of misused a bit in this game.
later in the game, at at least one point I can remember, you aren't told when to use the bracelet. it's your job to just figure out what part of the testimony doesn't seem to fit.
I didn't really like how the Perceive system is integrated either. "Hey. Hey. Your finger just twitched." "OH GOD I CONFESS EVERYTHING."
I'll agree, Apollo kind of sounds like a dick right after a successful Percieve.
It would be better if it were more subtle... say, he realizes the person's covering up something, which gives him the confidence to really press the witness on it without actually saying "oh lord, you're swallowing you HORRIBLE, HORRIBLE PERSON!!."
I don't know what it is exactly, but something about Trucy (aside from her unamusing antics) annoys the hell out of me. The stuff Maya pulls in PW1-3 doesn't bother me because
A ) the channeling never actively saves your ass; you still have to do the work (Mia just gives you hints and B ) even though it is major Deus Ex Machina at work, at least we expect it every time because it is what helps keep Maya in character.
There's never really a point in the game where it stops telling you when to use the bracelet; it's greyed out except for at points where you need to use it.
I don't know what it is exactly, but something about Trucy (aside from her unamusing antics) annoys the hell out of me. The stuff Maya pulls in PW1-3 doesn't bother me because
A ) the channeling never actively saves your ass; you still have to do the work (Mia just gives you hints and B ) even though it is major Deus Ex Machina at work, at least we expect it every time because it is what helps keep Maya in character.
Case 1-2, the back of the receipt.
Also Case 1-2, list of blackmailed names.
I've just finished Case 1-2 (yay for finally getting PW1) and...
Seriously, WTF? The receipt is a fine "Use the Schwartz" moment, but then Edgeworth gets another day to make shit up and White is about to leave the country first chance he gets and oh my god, we're going to jail!, and suddenly Mia Fey - Iced Attorney stops court, rattles off a bunch of names (OK, technically she hands the list to Nick who rattles them off) and White just crumbles. Yay, I... win? The hell?
Other than that, PW1 very much bringing the funny.
Getting through Apollo's game, finally got to the fourth case, second section of the first court part.
Love seeing what finally happened to Phoenix and the return of his non-jaded personality, but ye gods, was the courtroom ALWAYS that ugly in the first three games? It's making my eyes burn.
Posts
http://www.audioentropy.com/
In the AJ flashback, he's arrogant and thinks the case is open and shut. Aside from maybe the first case of JFA before getting bonked on the head, I don't recall Phoenix dismissing a case that quickly, and that's not even mentioning that Phoenix got the case the night before and hadn't had any time to do any investigating. He also pretty much blows off Klavier as an inexperienced douche, and though it's tempting to do so when you consider he's a first-time lawyer from a rock band, Phoenix's gone up against all kinds of prodigies and general nobodies (Godot) enough to know better than that.
I mean, the arrogance is key to the story of Phoenix losing his badge, so it needs to be there I suppose. AJ just didn't sell it to me that Phoenix grew this great amount of overconfidence in the span of two or three months. Had it been a couple years, I might have been more accepting.
Of course, that doesn't even compare to the whole "prosecution's been doing that all the damn time but the one time I do it 'Whoopsie, you made a mess, gimme that badge" magic. For me at least.
|Xbox Live Tag: Omeks
|PSN Tag: Omeks_R7
|Rock Band: Profile|DLC Collection
I mean you have to think he beat himself up over his hubris for years
PSN ID : DetectiveOlivaw | TWITTER | STEAM ID | NEVER FORGET
It's also a little important to understand how Japan's legal system works in an unofficial way. Prosecutor's have to take the bar exam, while anyone can be a defense attorney. Thus, prosecutors were generally considered extremely important, their word law, and the defense was usually presumed to be lying. This has changed in recent years - in 2006, Japan did a lot to encourage people to come in to law by changing the requirements to become an attorney. Still, the postwar ideas of prosecution and defense stick.
This is the idea Gyakuten Saiban is predicated on: Phoenix is the ultimate underdog. He fights for his clients in a world where they're presumed guilty and he's presumed wrong. Him being arrogant is key to his downfall, but it is not entirely him. It's an indictment of the system as well - under the rules he was bound to, he was at fault for the fake evidence, not anyone else. It took him a few years to realize, but the system he fought to protect people under was not a system that he could use any longer. Phoenix realized he, and the legal system, were relics of a past age.
For the record -
Valant is the best character in case 4.
Eldoon is the best character in case 2.
Platinum FC: 2880 3245 5111
never forget your first time....
it's true though. in every game, twists are never as shocking as the first game's. it taught me to suspect everyone, no matter who they were.
3DS Friend Code: 2165-6448-8348 www.Twitch.TV/cooljammer00
Battle.Net: JohnDarc#1203 Origin/UPlay: CoolJammer00
Well, not always... von Karma always seemed like a bastard. Lo and behold, he was.
Though
3DS: 1607-3034-6970
The judge looking shocked is the best part.
Who could eat that?
That's a fine cake, to be sure, but it clearly pales in comparison to...this!
3DS: 1607-3034-6970
delicious justice!
3DS Friend Code: 2165-6448-8348 www.Twitch.TV/cooljammer00
Battle.Net: JohnDarc#1203 Origin/UPlay: CoolJammer00
He looks like he wants to eat Edgeworth.
|Xbox Live Tag: Omeks
|PSN Tag: Omeks_R7
|Rock Band: Profile|DLC Collection
Seems kinda silly.
http://www.audioentropy.com/
Fixed
And the judges face.
While I'm here, if anyone has stopped by court records today they are an apollo justice fansite only now.
Ah, perhaps real content will be added now, for real games like Apollo Justice: Ace Attorney
I mean who needs those old characters anyway? Certainly not I
PSN ID : DetectiveOlivaw | TWITTER | STEAM ID | NEVER FORGET
Yes I know it's an april fool's, I posted it in that thread earlier. I probably should have indicated it here as well.
It's kinda sad that they made Her Forehead the April Fool's joke. :P
I always assumed that Edgeworth is the only sensible explanation for
Miles must have moved his influences for that. There is no evidence of this, of course, but Phoenix must have used his friends in court to get that position.
I have to say, though, I love the 'Perceive' function, although I wish it didn't hold your hand quite so much. You should be able to 'Perceive' at any time, whether you need to or not, that way you don't ever really know whether you're supposed to present evidence and you just don't get the clues you're getting or if you really can't present anything and thus HAVE to 'Perceive' to keep going.
Yeah, I would throw the game away, were they to do that.
3DS: 1607-3034-6970
See, it must just be how I feel like a SUPREME BADASS everytime I catch a tiny twitch in someone's finger or something, and then proceed to beat them senseless with logical deduction. The harder it is to see that little twitch, the more badass I feel, so add that to the fact that I personally think the 'Perceive' function is way too easy, and there you go.
Yeah, I miss the interactions with all the folks we've grown to love in the past three games, but the new cast is all right. Trucy isn't really that much different from Maya, if you get right down to it. And really, how is the
Also, having the option to use perceive at any time would be annoying as all hell. Yeah, it's a stretch to have a magic bracelet that vibrates when you have to use it, but you still have to look hard and examine a fair chunk of testimony that goes by veeeeeerrrrrrrryyy sllooooooowwwwwwwwly. Not to mention a large close-up. Going through a novel's worth of text in slow motion? No thank you.
And I'm halfway through
Case 1-2, the back of the receipt.
http://www.audioentropy.com/
3DS: 1607-3034-6970
3DS Friend Code: 2165-6448-8348 www.Twitch.TV/cooljammer00
Battle.Net: JohnDarc#1203 Origin/UPlay: CoolJammer00
I'll agree, Apollo kind of sounds like a dick right after a successful Percieve.
It would be better if it were more subtle... say, he realizes the person's covering up something, which gives him the confidence to really press the witness on it without actually saying "oh lord, you're swallowing you HORRIBLE, HORRIBLE PERSON!!."
Makes you wonder what would happen if the guy was just twitching fr no reason.
Witness: Well...when I saw the guy shoot him... *finger-twitch
Apollo: AH-HAH! I saw your finger twitch! You're obviously hiding something!
Witness: What!? No I'm not! I'm always twitching! What makes you think I'm hiding something!?
Apollo: Don't argue with me! I saw it with my magical bracelet. You're hiding something and I'm gonna find out!
Witness: I have Parkinson's!!!
|Xbox Live Tag: Omeks
|PSN Tag: Omeks_R7
|Rock Band: Profile|DLC Collection
Someone needs to make a youtube video out of this, because there's no way that this will actually happen in the game.
Also Case 1-2, list of blackmailed names.
http://www.audioentropy.com/
I've just finished Case 1-2 (yay for finally getting PW1) and...
Other than that, PW1 very much bringing the funny.