I agree with you but it won't happen and this won't end well.
Its funny cause you kept on going "I can't wait for this thread to devolve" earlier and here you are acting like another fanboy cunt.
Also, guys...
Cthulhu Mythos>LoTR>Star Wars
Swap up LotR and Star Wars.
I ,mean come on, LotR mythos is just midgets going on a walk
Yeah I was actually questioning myself heavily on that one. But I made an executive decision in favor of giant trampling primordial super elephants.
Star Wars universe is much more in depth, what with all the books n whatnot. LotR is just abused by a bunch of black metal bands, with the few good ones heavily outweighed by the bad. Also, Darth Vader could rip the head off that oliphaunt without even touching it. Everything that walks within the tentacles of Cthulhu is certified awesome.
As for the thread, between H3 and Bioshock I say the former has better gameplay, the latter has better uh voice acting and graphics. H3's story is tripe, I found myself skipping cut-scenes halfway through (I like how they make you listen to Cortana and her emo whining :P). I didn't have much fun in Bioshock besides a couple Big Daddies, but I did enjoy the early areas for their aesthetics. I haven't played Episode 2, but I'm sure it would fit comfortably into the middle.
METAzraeL on
dream a little dream or you could live a little dream
sleep forever if you wish to be a dreamer
Silmarillion is pretty sophisticated and complex, like all other Tolkien.
Tolkien was an insanely good writer. Just because his stuff may be hard for some people to read/follow doesn't mean you just get to label it awful. To be fair, I am completely shocked at how entertaining the recent Star Wars storyline concerning the Skywalkers and such has been.
Anyway, as for the actual topic being discussed, Bioshock is easily the top spot, objectively speaking. I probably enjoyed Halo 3 more, but that's because it was an excellent conclusion to a trilogy. I enjoyed the story aspects of Ep. 2, but it plays exactly like Ep. 1 and HL2. Alyx being invincible really gets on my nerves and the combat really, really drags after a while, especially with both episodes featuring the exact same stuff. Both Halo 3 and Bioshock let you really choose how to fight more than "Gee, do you want to shoot with this gun or that gun?" Halo 3 features continuous, flowing combat with a lot of tactical options while Bioshock ranges from hide till they're gone to wrench-fu master to unstoppable bullet machine.
Normally this wouldn't be a big deal to me, but Ep. 2's graphics are definitely dated compared to Halo 3 and Bioshock; badly enough to hurt it. Ep. 2's character models (at least for the main characters) are incredible, but the rest of the game just looks bleh. It really destroys the immersion when you can see how bad the textures are from like 10 feet away.
I finished Ep. 2 and went "That was neat, but it'll probably be another full 2 years till the next episode. Stupid." I finished Halo 3, thought "Awesome fun, series finished, play again later" and immediately jumped on the multiplayer. I played Bioshock and thought "That was so good I'm glad they didn't leave it open for a sequel because I don't see how they could top it".
To clarify everything, I enjoyed Ep. 2 as part of the HL2 game and I think it simply lacks the content to even be compared with Halo 3 or Bioshock. Halo 3 was enormous fun with a ton of it's own content within the Halo universe. Bioshock crafted an entire world of its own in a single campaign. I think that Portal does actually deserve to be placed with Bioshock and Halo 3, much more so than Ep. 2, simply because it's virtually an independent entity of a whole new (and vastly entertaining) genre.
Silmarillion is pretty sophisticated and complex, like all other Tolkien.
Tolkien was an insanely good writer. Just because his stuff may be hard for some people to read/follow doesn't mean you just get to label it awful.
He was?
He was a linguist, not really a great writer. And it showed. He had a great imagination and he was competent enough as a storyteller, but to call him an insanely good writer is just not true. He got far too caught up in his descriptions and less so on actual compelling writing.
This is not to say he was bad. Heck, he practically singlehandedly invented high fantasy. He just wasn't the greatest writer of all time. And Silmarillion was so bad.
Silmarillion is pretty sophisticated and complex, like all other Tolkien.
Tolkien was an insanely good writer. Just because his stuff may be hard for some people to read/follow doesn't mean you just get to label it awful. To be fair, I am completely shocked at how entertaining the recent Star Wars storyline concerning the Skywalkers and such has been.
Anyway, as for the actual topic being discussed, Bioshock is easily the top spot, objectively speaking. I probably enjoyed Halo 3 more, but that's because it was an excellent conclusion to a trilogy. I enjoyed the story aspects of Ep. 2, but it plays exactly like Ep. 1 and HL2. Alyx being invincible really gets on my nerves and the combat really, really drags after a while, especially with both episodes featuring the exact same stuff. Both Halo 3 and Bioshock let you really choose how to fight more than "Gee, do you want to shoot with this gun or that gun?" Halo 3 features continuous, flowing combat with a lot of tactical options while Bioshock ranges from hide till they're gone to wrench-fu master to unstoppable bullet machine.
Normally this wouldn't be a big deal to me, but Ep. 2's graphics are definitely dated compared to Halo 3 and Bioshock; badly enough to hurt it. Ep. 2's character models (at least for the main characters) are incredible, but the rest of the game just looks bleh. It really destroys the immersion when you can see how bad the textures are from like 10 feet away.
I finished Ep. 2 and went "That was neat, but it'll probably be another full 2 years till the next episode. Stupid." I finished Halo 3, thought "Awesome fun, series finished, play again later" and immediately jumped on the multiplayer. I played Bioshock and thought "That was so good I'm glad they didn't leave it open for a sequel because I don't see how they could top it".
To clarify everything, I enjoyed Ep. 2 as part of the HL2 game and I think it simply lacks the content to even be compared with Halo 3 or Bioshock. Halo 3 was enormous fun with a ton of it's own content within the Halo universe. Bioshock crafted an entire world of its own in a single campaign. I think that Portal does actually deserve to be placed with Bioshock and Halo 3, much more so than Ep. 2, simply because it's virtually an independent entity of a whole new (and vastly entertaining) genre.
Erm, just to explain here: Ep. 1 came out a year before Ep. 2, and Ep.3 is due out early 2008 from what I hear.
I just disagree that it can't be ranked with those two... Ep. 2 is full of such great moments and is just so much fun, it's a truly rewarding experience with a story that really can't be touched. Neither Bioshock nor Halo 3 could get you nearly as involved and enmeshed with the plot as Ep. 2.
Plus, Ep. 2 has a fucking Camaro. That is just fucking awesome.
Silmarillion is pretty sophisticated and complex, like all other Tolkien.
Tolkien was an insanely good writer. Just because his stuff may be hard for some people to read/follow doesn't mean you just get to label it awful. To be fair, I am completely shocked at how entertaining the recent Star Wars storyline concerning the Skywalkers and such has been.
Anyway, as for the actual topic being discussed, Bioshock is easily the top spot, objectively speaking. I probably enjoyed Halo 3 more, but that's because it was an excellent conclusion to a trilogy. I enjoyed the story aspects of Ep. 2, but it plays exactly like Ep. 1 and HL2. Alyx being invincible really gets on my nerves and the combat really, really drags after a while, especially with both episodes featuring the exact same stuff. Both Halo 3 and Bioshock let you really choose how to fight more than "Gee, do you want to shoot with this gun or that gun?" Halo 3 features continuous, flowing combat with a lot of tactical options while Bioshock ranges from hide till they're gone to wrench-fu master to unstoppable bullet machine.
Normally this wouldn't be a big deal to me, but Ep. 2's graphics are definitely dated compared to Halo 3 and Bioshock; badly enough to hurt it. Ep. 2's character models (at least for the main characters) are incredible, but the rest of the game just looks bleh. It really destroys the immersion when you can see how bad the textures are from like 10 feet away.
I finished Ep. 2 and went "That was neat, but it'll probably be another full 2 years till the next episode. Stupid." I finished Halo 3, thought "Awesome fun, series finished, play again later" and immediately jumped on the multiplayer. I played Bioshock and thought "That was so good I'm glad they didn't leave it open for a sequel because I don't see how they could top it".
To clarify everything, I enjoyed Ep. 2 as part of the HL2 game and I think it simply lacks the content to even be compared with Halo 3 or Bioshock. Halo 3 was enormous fun with a ton of it's own content within the Halo universe. Bioshock crafted an entire world of its own in a single campaign. I think that Portal does actually deserve to be placed with Bioshock and Halo 3, much more so than Ep. 2, simply because it's virtually an independent entity of a whole new (and vastly entertaining) genre.
Erm, just to explain here: Ep. 1 came out a year before Ep. 2, and Ep.3 is due out early 2008 from what I hear.
I just disagree that it can't be ranked with it... Ep. 2 is full of such great moments and is just so much fun, it's a truly rewarding experience with a story that really can't be touched. Neither Bioshock nor Halo 3 could get you nearly as involved and enmeshed with the plot as Ep. 2.
Plus, Ep. 2 has a fucking Camaro. That is just fucking awesome.
Yeah, the Half-Life 2 plot has never done anything for me and I found BioShock's to be really interesting (even though it fell apart at the end of the game) and I was more emotionally involved in Halo's story and characters than any other game I have played.
Different strokes for different folks I guess.
bruin on
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Ninja Snarl PMy helmet is my burden.Ninja Snarl: Gone, but not forgotten.Registered Userregular
edited October 2007
But for Ep. 2, great moments like what (gameplay moments, I mean)? Sure, I enjoyed the whole sequence with the striders, but you've already done pretty much the exact same stuff in HL2 already. You've already driven around looking for stuff. You've already done a bunch of fairly simple physics-based puzzles using weight as a solution. The
hive sequence was okay, but hardly epic.
Seriously, I'm not being facetious, I really would like to know what you consider to be great moments in Ep. 2 which are part of the actual gameplay (such as the end combat sequence). Every time I play the Halo 3 campaign, it looks incredible seeing this huge, hulking spider-tank climbing over the buildings to get at me and the troops, knowing that I have to kill it. Every time I play Bioshock, hearing a Big Daddy stomping around makes me tense, even having beaten them handily later in the game because they're never actually something you can dismiss lightly. What is it in Ep. 2 that you believe compares to stuff like this that wasn't already done in HL2 and Ep. 1?
I don't really want to say anything about anything else you said, but what the fuck is wrong with you?
If there is one thing games do not need more of, it's fucking sidekick characters that can die. Because then, no matter what you end up trying to do, it turns into a protection mission with you stopping everything in the game from raping your A.I. buddy.
If there's one thing friendly A.I. can never do, it's keep itself alive.
I don't really want to say anything about anything else you said, but what the fuck is wrong with you?
If there is one thing games do not need more of, it's fucking sidekick characters that can die. Because then, no matter what you end up trying to do, it turns into a protection mission with you stopping everything in the game from raping your A.I. buddy.
If there's one thing friendly A.I. can never do, it's keep itself alive.
I haven't played Episode 2 yet, but I know for a fact that Alyx can die in Episode 1.
In the parking garage, she got surrounded by ant lions and since I thought she was invincible, I didn't bother helping her. She got utterly swarmed and after fifteen or twenty seconds, she fell over dead and it made me reload my last save.
I don't really want to say anything about anything else you said, but what the fuck is wrong with you?
If there is one thing games do not need more of, it's fucking sidekick characters that can die. Because then, no matter what you end up trying to do, it turns into a protection mission with you stopping everything in the game from raping your A.I. buddy.
If there's one thing friendly A.I. can never do, it's keep itself alive.
I haven't played Episode 2 yet, but I know for a fact that Alyx can die in Episode 1.
In the parking garage, she got surrounded by ant lions and since I thought she was invincible, I didn't bother helping her. She got utterly swarmed and after fifteen or twenty seconds, she fell over dead and it made me reload my last save.
Well, as far as I can tell, she's invincible in ep. 2 (I didn't notice that in ep. 1, and she never died on me, even when I left her alone).
I don't really want to say anything about anything else you said, but what the fuck is wrong with you?
If there is one thing games do not need more of, it's fucking sidekick characters that can die. Because then, no matter what you end up trying to do, it turns into a protection mission with you stopping everything in the game from raping your A.I. buddy.
If there's one thing friendly A.I. can never do, it's keep itself alive.
I haven't played Episode 2 yet, but I know for a fact that Alyx can die in Episode 1.
In the parking garage, she got surrounded by ant lions and since I thought she was invincible, I didn't bother helping her. She got utterly swarmed and after fifteen or twenty seconds, she fell over dead and it made me reload my last save.
Well, as far as I can tell, she's invincible in ep. 2 (I didn't notice that in ep. 1, and she never died on me, even when I left her alone).
Like I said, even surrounded by a large number of ant lions who were constantly attacking, it still took her fifteen to twenty seconds to die.
She may just seem invincible because she has an incredible amount of health.
I don't really want to say anything about anything else you said, but what the fuck is wrong with you?
If there is one thing games do not need more of, it's fucking sidekick characters that can die. Because then, no matter what you end up trying to do, it turns into a protection mission with you stopping everything in the game from raping your A.I. buddy.
If there's one thing friendly A.I. can never do, it's keep itself alive.
I haven't played Episode 2 yet, but I know for a fact that Alyx can die in Episode 1.
In the parking garage, she got surrounded by ant lions and since I thought she was invincible, I didn't bother helping her. She got utterly swarmed and after fifteen or twenty seconds, she fell over dead and it made me reload my last save.
Well, as far as I can tell, she's invincible in ep. 2 (I didn't notice that in ep. 1, and she never died on me, even when I left her alone).
Like I said, even surrounded by a large number of ant lions who were constantly attacking, it still took her fifteen to twenty seconds to die.
She may just seem invincible because she has an incredible amount of health.
Maybe, but I don't understand how making her able to die helps the game, at all. It's cool that they gave her a lot of health, I am very thankful for that.
Losing escort missions make me want to kill things.
I don't really want to say anything about anything else you said, but what the fuck is wrong with you?
If there is one thing games do not need more of, it's fucking sidekick characters that can die. Because then, no matter what you end up trying to do, it turns into a protection mission with you stopping everything in the game from raping your A.I. buddy.
If there's one thing friendly A.I. can never do, it's keep itself alive.
I haven't played Episode 2 yet, but I know for a fact that Alyx can die in Episode 1.
In the parking garage, she got surrounded by ant lions and since I thought she was invincible, I didn't bother helping her. She got utterly swarmed and after fifteen or twenty seconds, she fell over dead and it made me reload my last save.
Well, as far as I can tell, she's invincible in ep. 2 (I didn't notice that in ep. 1, and she never died on me, even when I left her alone).
Uh, she sure as heck ISN'T invulnerable. I know, because the Combine at the inn certainly didn't have trouble taking her down. Hunter's either for that matter (and yes I am talking about events other than the first encounter).
They gave her plenty enough health and regen so that you don't have to babysit her all the time (which would be nothing short of frustrating), but not so much that you can ignore her when she gets into trouble. At least not on hard anyway, I don't know about medium.
Seriously, you guys, she isn't invulnerable OK? Sorry but I've seen this same complaint about 100 times. It's like if they did the opposite and made it so she died at every encounter people would definitely be complaining about how useless she was and always needs babysitting whenver the action starts.
I'd guess I'd default to preferring the Half-Life universe's story, although, by default, there isn't all that much of a story there.
When I played through Bioshock, I really enjoyed the presentation and the atmosphere. I felt really mixed on the storytelling, though. I really loved certain characters like the cynical McDonagh and the placid Suchong, whereas others I could have given a damn about, including Ryan and Tenenbaum.
I felt the story itself was coming together slowly, but when the reveal and the twist finally occurred, I felt, in this order: impressed, disappointed, and then irritated. Impressed by the
"Would you kindly"
verbal cue that was a constant part of the narrative that I hadn't thought much about for several hours of gameplay, disappointed with the events involving Ryan and Tenenbaum's hidey-hole, and ultimately irritated because of the way the story is told.
Bioshock has a good story that is told really, really poorly. And I'm not referring to the audio devices and the other visual and audio cues. I did admit that I liked the presentation. I'm referring to the fact that the plot itself and the motivators revolve around choices that aren't really choices. And I'm not talking about the Little Sisters... I'm talking about the basic motivators of why we play a game and why we're expected to disappear into the characters we play, only to have Bioshock's plot utterly mock both. Everything about video games is supposed to be about choice... choosing to buy it, choosing to install it, choosing how to play it... even for this game, choosing which Plasmids to use and how to approach combat and whether or not to harvest Little Sisters. So on the one hand, I'm offered choice, but on the other hand, the plot explicitly tells me that I don't really have a choice at all. I could explain at length, but this article already does that for me.
In response to that article, I actually got sick of the Big Daddy component fetch quests and checked a walkthrough to see what else I'd have to do. I read about the escort mission, sighed, YouTubed the ending videos, and promptly uninstalled the game. ;-)
EDIT: I'd also like to say that my disappointment with Bioshock is due to the fact that it put alot more on the line with it's plot than games usually do. It went for an unprecedented amount of sophistication, which I appreciate, but stretching that far left gaping holes in the story's presentation and its relation to playing a game versus reading a book or watching a movie. And, also, uh, I thought the combat sucked.
so people want an AI teammate who isn't invincible (because that would be game-breaking) but can't die (because that's frustrating)?
Because you, the player, can't die either, right?
darleysam on
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Ninja Snarl PMy helmet is my burden.Ninja Snarl: Gone, but not forgotten.Registered Userregular
edited October 2007
Oookaayy, sorry I even mentioned the part about Alyx being seemingly invincible. Yes, I detest escort missions, probably even more than the average gamer. It wasn't necessarily a game-breaking issue to me (it's not like she has a rocket launcher or anything), but it's a big distraction in a game where if you take a volley of shots, you have to go hunt around for health/energy while she gets hit all day long. As contrived as it is for Alyx to be conveniently out of the way (opening doors, cover fire, etc.), it's still a LOT less lazy than making her follow you and be nearly indestructible. Plus, she never really helped me aside from scripted events. Most of the time Alyx is around, I'd rather go solo just because then it wouldn't break the immersion every time I see three guys shoot her to no effect. Halo 3 has the Arbiter following you around a few times (and actually contributing to the fight), but at least he can get knocked out. It still irks me that he just comes right back, but not nearly as much as Alyx seemingly never dying. Bioshock also actually explains (and halfway believably within the context of the story) why the Little Sisters can't be killed conventionally.
As far as Bioshock goes, I have to agree that they could've done a better job with telling the story. I really enjoyed the motivations/explanations they gave for whatever you're trying to do (and actually felt personal motivation to do so), but had to make some compromises to make the game fit on a disc. Unfortunately, that meant sacrificing a good chunk of possibilities for the game.
As far as the Bioshock combat goes, I don't think it sucked, but neither do I think was anything special. I still prefer it over HL2 combat, though, simply for the fact that you don't have to search for health EVERY time you get injured because you carry health with you.
Episode 1 commentary discussed their thoughts on Alyx. Basically testers found it no fun to do a segment near flawlessly but then have to restart because their AI partner got an unlucky blow or made a mistake. The eventual compromise they reached was to give Alyx a large health pool and fast regeneration. So between individual battles she maxes out her health again and can take a beating from a foe or two without much trouble, but if she gets ganged on she's a goner. So powerful enough to not be a burden (and be capable of killing things), but not so powerful as to take the focus off Gordon or to feel cheap.
As for the question...
Halo 1 I finished for the story, Halo 2 I finished to complete a review, I didn't finish either for the gameplay. 2's plot was pointless (Edit: well actually I found the Arbiter's almost interesting but the Master Chief's was basically just 'chase the bad guys around because they're bad'), 1's was better, but I haven't played through 3. As was though, there was little/nothing in the first two that I can think of that I'd want resolution on. Everything was pretty basic and uninteresting, and tossing in the Gravemind halfway through as the largest deus ex machina in the history of video games didn't help. 1's gameplay weakness was the indoor areas, 2's was... well most of the areas. They were just as repetitive as the Library, only repeated in larger blocks, and the game had tons of really bad design in general (a huge over reliance on 'lock player in room till he kills X mobs'). So if 3 is more like 1's outdoor areas, well at least that's an improvement.
EP2 I loved, even if some things felt like they could be improved. I never felt frustrated, nor did I ever feel like I was breezing through it. On hard it was the perfect level of challenge and reward. The characters were all great, the ending was the most emotional in a while (perhaps since The Longest Journey for me), and the story carried on at a good pace and kept interesting the whole time. Really the only thing that gets me about EP2 was having to hop over toxic waste again...
Bioshock.. very mixed. Some parts I'd consider the best of the year (Fort Frolic), others I'd consider okay level design with nothing else to back it up (Olympus Heights). The story was good until the big reveal midway, then it became almost inconsequential. The Good/Evil paths were an utter failure, with only the ending cutscene changing. I thought the paths would diverge after the midgame reveal (when whatsherface helps you... makes sense good path..but on bad path too?), but found out later they did not and haven't replayed the game since then. The gameplay got pretty repetitive, even when I tried to mix it up, combat had lots of options but not much depth: only 5 foes, 4 of which were nearly identical, and all had 100% predictable and basic behaviors. In the end it felt too much like an undersea System Shock 2. While not necessarily a bad thing, it was an underwhelming thing.
So basically, I'm going for Ep2 for this poll unless Halo 3 managed to fix everything wrong with Halo 1/2s SP. Bioshock wins for first half and overall story complexity, but fails for second half.
steejee on
The Great DAMNED STEAM SALES AND WII/U Backlog Just Finished: Borderlands (waste of $7)/Mario Brothers U/The Last Story/Tropico 4 Currently Playing: NS2/ZombiU/PlanetSide 2/Ys/Dota2/Xenoblade Chronicles On Hold: Prince of Persia: Warrior Within/GW2/Scribblenauts Coming Next: Prince of Persia: The Two Thrones/X-Com Classic
So basically, I'm going for Ep2 for this poll unless Halo 3 managed to fix everything wrong with Halo 1/2s SP. Bioshock wins for first half and overall story complexity, but fails for second half.
I do admit that Halo 3 is way better than both Halo 1 and 2 especially 2, The Coop just makes it a blast to play with people but it's not as good as Bioshock, which I think that the whole game was great.
Lothars on
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augustwhere you come from is goneRegistered Userregular
edited October 2007
The one hit kill combat animations aren't really the problem, because they don't break the immersion. You see her kill the monster and it makes sense.
The girl just needs a flack jacket or something to explain why she can soak up bullets like a sponge.
i mean, the grubby apartment areas and the ruined streets was not as visually appealing as say fort frolic, but fuck was it scary. and not BOO scary like fort frolic but a creeping terror.
the apartments was especially horrifying. really, really fucking scary.
i mean, the grubby apartment areas and the ruined streets was not as visually appealing as say fort frolic, but fuck was it scary. and not BOO scary like fort frolic but a creeping terror.
the apartments was especially horrifying. really, really fucking scary.
Agreed. I'll never forget sneaking my way around some spooky apartments and into some deranged psycho's creepy closet with those white statues all around then finding and listening to the audio diary: The wild bunny was so awesome and creepy at the same time.
i mean, the grubby apartment areas and the ruined streets was not as visually appealing as say fort frolic, but fuck was it scary. and not BOO scary like fort frolic but a creeping terror.
the apartments was especially horrifying. really, really fucking scary.
I don't remember anything in the apartments being even remotely scary. They just seemed like a generic apartments level to me. Might have just been that I realized that I had already encountered every enemy in the game and none of them were gonna do jack squat to me at that point. The diaries were alright and some of the sorta backstory was decent, but nothing was scary to me.
steejee on
The Great DAMNED STEAM SALES AND WII/U Backlog Just Finished: Borderlands (waste of $7)/Mario Brothers U/The Last Story/Tropico 4 Currently Playing: NS2/ZombiU/PlanetSide 2/Ys/Dota2/Xenoblade Chronicles On Hold: Prince of Persia: Warrior Within/GW2/Scribblenauts Coming Next: Prince of Persia: The Two Thrones/X-Com Classic
I don't know how you can complain about Alyx tagging along. She's one of the most useful AI partners in any game ever. She doesn't die easy, kicks some ass, and doesn't get stuck on shit. You don't have to babysit her in the least. At worst, you've got to slow down a bit when your tearing off in the car to give her time to jump in.
The only better people to run through a game with I can think of are the Vortigaunt from EP2 and your squad mates from Republic Commando.
Posts
Its funny cause you kept on going "I can't wait for this thread to devolve" earlier and here you are acting like another fanboy cunt.
Also, guys...
Bioshock feels like a chore to play. Clunky combat, repetitive enemies, it was just not very good.
Episode 2 is just flat out fun to play.
Swap up LotR and Star Wars.
I ,mean come on, LotR mythos is just midgets going on a walk
Yeah I was actually questioning myself heavily on that one. But I made an executive decision in favor of giant trampling primordial super elephants.
As for the thread, between H3 and Bioshock I say the former has better gameplay, the latter has better uh voice acting and graphics. H3's story is tripe, I found myself skipping cut-scenes halfway through (I like how they make you listen to Cortana and her emo whining :P). I didn't have much fun in Bioshock besides a couple Big Daddies, but I did enjoy the early areas for their aesthetics. I haven't played Episode 2, but I'm sure it would fit comfortably into the middle.
dream a little dream or you could live a little dream
sleep forever if you wish to be a dreamer
yes, but what a walk indeed!
dream a little dream or you could live a little dream
sleep forever if you wish to be a dreamer
It's like a textbook for stuff that never happened! Yippee! ;-)
It's not the best book ever though.
Tolkien was an insanely good writer. Just because his stuff may be hard for some people to read/follow doesn't mean you just get to label it awful. To be fair, I am completely shocked at how entertaining the recent Star Wars storyline concerning the Skywalkers and such has been.
Anyway, as for the actual topic being discussed, Bioshock is easily the top spot, objectively speaking. I probably enjoyed Halo 3 more, but that's because it was an excellent conclusion to a trilogy. I enjoyed the story aspects of Ep. 2, but it plays exactly like Ep. 1 and HL2. Alyx being invincible really gets on my nerves and the combat really, really drags after a while, especially with both episodes featuring the exact same stuff. Both Halo 3 and Bioshock let you really choose how to fight more than "Gee, do you want to shoot with this gun or that gun?" Halo 3 features continuous, flowing combat with a lot of tactical options while Bioshock ranges from hide till they're gone to wrench-fu master to unstoppable bullet machine.
Normally this wouldn't be a big deal to me, but Ep. 2's graphics are definitely dated compared to Halo 3 and Bioshock; badly enough to hurt it. Ep. 2's character models (at least for the main characters) are incredible, but the rest of the game just looks bleh. It really destroys the immersion when you can see how bad the textures are from like 10 feet away.
I finished Ep. 2 and went "That was neat, but it'll probably be another full 2 years till the next episode. Stupid." I finished Halo 3, thought "Awesome fun, series finished, play again later" and immediately jumped on the multiplayer. I played Bioshock and thought "That was so good I'm glad they didn't leave it open for a sequel because I don't see how they could top it".
To clarify everything, I enjoyed Ep. 2 as part of the HL2 game and I think it simply lacks the content to even be compared with Halo 3 or Bioshock. Halo 3 was enormous fun with a ton of it's own content within the Halo universe. Bioshock crafted an entire world of its own in a single campaign. I think that Portal does actually deserve to be placed with Bioshock and Halo 3, much more so than Ep. 2, simply because it's virtually an independent entity of a whole new (and vastly entertaining) genre.
He was?
He was a linguist, not really a great writer. And it showed. He had a great imagination and he was competent enough as a storyteller, but to call him an insanely good writer is just not true. He got far too caught up in his descriptions and less so on actual compelling writing.
This is not to say he was bad. Heck, he practically singlehandedly invented high fantasy. He just wasn't the greatest writer of all time. And Silmarillion was so bad.
Anyway, that's off still off-topic.
Erm, just to explain here: Ep. 1 came out a year before Ep. 2, and Ep.3 is due out early 2008 from what I hear.
I just disagree that it can't be ranked with those two... Ep. 2 is full of such great moments and is just so much fun, it's a truly rewarding experience with a story that really can't be touched. Neither Bioshock nor Halo 3 could get you nearly as involved and enmeshed with the plot as Ep. 2.
Plus, Ep. 2 has a fucking Camaro. That is just fucking awesome.
Yeah, the Half-Life 2 plot has never done anything for me and I found BioShock's to be really interesting (even though it fell apart at the end of the game) and I was more emotionally involved in Halo's story and characters than any other game I have played.
Different strokes for different folks I guess.
If there is one thing games do not need more of, it's fucking sidekick characters that can die. Because then, no matter what you end up trying to do, it turns into a protection mission with you stopping everything in the game from raping your A.I. buddy.
If there's one thing friendly A.I. can never do, it's keep itself alive.
I haven't played Episode 2 yet, but I know for a fact that Alyx can die in Episode 1.
In the parking garage, she got surrounded by ant lions and since I thought she was invincible, I didn't bother helping her. She got utterly swarmed and after fifteen or twenty seconds, she fell over dead and it made me reload my last save.
Well, as far as I can tell, she's invincible in ep. 2 (I didn't notice that in ep. 1, and she never died on me, even when I left her alone).
Like I said, even surrounded by a large number of ant lions who were constantly attacking, it still took her fifteen to twenty seconds to die.
She may just seem invincible because she has an incredible amount of health.
Losing escort missions make me want to kill things.
Uh, she sure as heck ISN'T invulnerable. I know, because the Combine at the inn certainly didn't have trouble taking her down. Hunter's either for that matter (and yes I am talking about events other than the first encounter).
They gave her plenty enough health and regen so that you don't have to babysit her all the time (which would be nothing short of frustrating), but not so much that you can ignore her when she gets into trouble. At least not on hard anyway, I don't know about medium.
Seriously, you guys, she isn't invulnerable OK? Sorry but I've seen this same complaint about 100 times. It's like if they did the opposite and made it so she died at every encounter people would definitely be complaining about how useless she was and always needs babysitting whenver the action starts.
When I played through Bioshock, I really enjoyed the presentation and the atmosphere. I felt really mixed on the storytelling, though. I really loved certain characters like the cynical McDonagh and the placid Suchong, whereas others I could have given a damn about, including Ryan and Tenenbaum.
I felt the story itself was coming together slowly, but when the reveal and the twist finally occurred, I felt, in this order: impressed, disappointed, and then irritated. Impressed by the
Bioshock has a good story that is told really, really poorly. And I'm not referring to the audio devices and the other visual and audio cues. I did admit that I liked the presentation. I'm referring to the fact that the plot itself and the motivators revolve around choices that aren't really choices. And I'm not talking about the Little Sisters... I'm talking about the basic motivators of why we play a game and why we're expected to disappear into the characters we play, only to have Bioshock's plot utterly mock both. Everything about video games is supposed to be about choice... choosing to buy it, choosing to install it, choosing how to play it... even for this game, choosing which Plasmids to use and how to approach combat and whether or not to harvest Little Sisters. So on the one hand, I'm offered choice, but on the other hand, the plot explicitly tells me that I don't really have a choice at all. I could explain at length, but this article already does that for me.
In response to that article, I actually got sick of the Big Daddy component fetch quests and checked a walkthrough to see what else I'd have to do. I read about the escort mission, sighed, YouTubed the ending videos, and promptly uninstalled the game. ;-)
EDIT: I'd also like to say that my disappointment with Bioshock is due to the fact that it put alot more on the line with it's plot than games usually do. It went for an unprecedented amount of sophistication, which I appreciate, but stretching that far left gaping holes in the story's presentation and its relation to playing a game versus reading a book or watching a movie. And, also, uh, I thought the combat sucked.
Because you, the player, can't die either, right?
As far as Bioshock goes, I have to agree that they could've done a better job with telling the story. I really enjoyed the motivations/explanations they gave for whatever you're trying to do (and actually felt personal motivation to do so), but had to make some compromises to make the game fit on a disc. Unfortunately, that meant sacrificing a good chunk of possibilities for the game.
As far as the Bioshock combat goes, I don't think it sucked, but neither do I think was anything special. I still prefer it over HL2 combat, though, simply for the fact that you don't have to search for health EVERY time you get injured because you carry health with you.
I am that good. Honest.
As for the question...
Halo 1 I finished for the story, Halo 2 I finished to complete a review, I didn't finish either for the gameplay. 2's plot was pointless (Edit: well actually I found the Arbiter's almost interesting but the Master Chief's was basically just 'chase the bad guys around because they're bad'), 1's was better, but I haven't played through 3. As was though, there was little/nothing in the first two that I can think of that I'd want resolution on. Everything was pretty basic and uninteresting, and tossing in the Gravemind halfway through as the largest deus ex machina in the history of video games didn't help. 1's gameplay weakness was the indoor areas, 2's was... well most of the areas. They were just as repetitive as the Library, only repeated in larger blocks, and the game had tons of really bad design in general (a huge over reliance on 'lock player in room till he kills X mobs'). So if 3 is more like 1's outdoor areas, well at least that's an improvement.
EP2 I loved, even if some things felt like they could be improved. I never felt frustrated, nor did I ever feel like I was breezing through it. On hard it was the perfect level of challenge and reward. The characters were all great, the ending was the most emotional in a while (perhaps since The Longest Journey for me), and the story carried on at a good pace and kept interesting the whole time. Really the only thing that gets me about EP2 was having to hop over toxic waste again...
Bioshock.. very mixed. Some parts I'd consider the best of the year (Fort Frolic), others I'd consider okay level design with nothing else to back it up (Olympus Heights). The story was good until the big reveal midway, then it became almost inconsequential. The Good/Evil paths were an utter failure, with only the ending cutscene changing. I thought the paths would diverge after the midgame reveal (when whatsherface helps you... makes sense good path..but on bad path too?), but found out later they did not and haven't replayed the game since then. The gameplay got pretty repetitive, even when I tried to mix it up, combat had lots of options but not much depth: only 5 foes, 4 of which were nearly identical, and all had 100% predictable and basic behaviors. In the end it felt too much like an undersea System Shock 2. While not necessarily a bad thing, it was an underwhelming thing.
So basically, I'm going for Ep2 for this poll unless Halo 3 managed to fix everything wrong with Halo 1/2s SP. Bioshock wins for first half and overall story complexity, but fails for second half.
Just Finished: Borderlands (waste of $7)/Mario Brothers U/The Last Story/Tropico 4
Currently Playing: NS2/ZombiU/PlanetSide 2/Ys/Dota2/Xenoblade Chronicles
On Hold: Prince of Persia: Warrior Within/GW2/Scribblenauts
Coming Next: Prince of Persia: The Two Thrones/X-Com Classic
Hey, me too, but i've seen people stab themselves in the head with a mouse when attempting to jump.
Seriously.
not seriously
The AI is not up to scratch on that so Valve make her invincible. In fact, she has a lot of auto one hit ko animations for grappling with zombines.
I do admit that Halo 3 is way better than both Halo 1 and 2 especially 2, The Coop just makes it a blast to play with people but it's not as good as Bioshock, which I think that the whole game was great.
The girl just needs a flack jacket or something to explain why she can soak up bullets like a sponge.
i mean, the grubby apartment areas and the ruined streets was not as visually appealing as say fort frolic, but fuck was it scary. and not BOO scary like fort frolic but a creeping terror.
the apartments was especially horrifying. really, really fucking scary.
Agreed. I'll never forget sneaking my way around some spooky apartments and into some deranged psycho's creepy closet with those white statues all around then finding and listening to the audio diary: The wild bunny was so awesome and creepy at the same time.
I don't remember anything in the apartments being even remotely scary. They just seemed like a generic apartments level to me. Might have just been that I realized that I had already encountered every enemy in the game and none of them were gonna do jack squat to me at that point. The diaries were alright and some of the sorta backstory was decent, but nothing was scary to me.
Just Finished: Borderlands (waste of $7)/Mario Brothers U/The Last Story/Tropico 4
Currently Playing: NS2/ZombiU/PlanetSide 2/Ys/Dota2/Xenoblade Chronicles
On Hold: Prince of Persia: Warrior Within/GW2/Scribblenauts
Coming Next: Prince of Persia: The Two Thrones/X-Com Classic
The only better people to run through a game with I can think of are the Vortigaunt from EP2 and your squad mates from Republic Commando.