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In Awe of Sturdy Hard Drives

emnmnmeemnmnme Registered User regular
edited October 2007 in Games and Technology
It's magic through science. In any cheap HDD, you have a platter and a read/write head that work by magnetism and that platter spins like nobody's business at top speed. Most impressive is that the head and the platter never touch but are always close together - so close that a speck of dust would be a tight squeeze and a a single hair is impossible to fit between them. How is this possible? With the Gs the platter is spinning at, it seems to me that a single awkward glance would crash the whole thing. How is it the head isn't accidentally readjusted when you pick up an external HDD and put it in your backpack or you stub your tow on your XBOX 360? Even if the components are sealed up, I can't understand how this device stays calibrated and precise for several years with daily use.

emnmnme on

Posts

  • gilraingilrain Registered User regular
    edited October 2007
    The spinning platter creates a cushion of air that the head rest upon, interestingly. This is one reason many hard drives have an altitude limitation -- as the air gets thinner, that cushion becomes less reliable. I completely agree that the engineering that goes into them and their general reliability is amazing, by the way. Just adding a fun fact. teacher.gif

    gilrain on
  • emnmnmeemnmnme Registered User regular
    edited October 2007
    I'm also wondering why a 100 GB Flash Memory HDD would be so much slower than a standard, magnetic HDD. I mean, besides the crippling price, it's just not practical to use Flash memory for storing big chunks of data, right?

    emnmnme on
  • ShogunShogun Hair long; money long; me and broke wizards we don't get along Registered User regular
    edited October 2007
    emnmnme wrote: »
    I'm also wondering why a 100 GB Flash Memory HDD would be so much slower than a standard, magnetic HDD. I mean, besides the crippling price, it's just not practical to use Flash memory for storing big chunks of data, right?

    The short answer is yes.

    Shogun on
  • Nova_CNova_C I have the need The need for speedRegistered User regular
    edited October 2007
    emnmnme wrote: »
    I'm also wondering why a 100 GB Flash Memory HDD would be so much slower than a standard, magnetic HDD. I mean, besides the crippling price, it's just not practical to use Flash memory for storing big chunks of data, right?

    I'm not familiar with the ins and outs of the tech, but I don't see why not. Flash is just.....younger. So it'll take time to mature, but since it's a solid state storage device, I could see it becoming the standard.

    Also, EVE Online's database is run entirely off of a solid state drive system. That's why they only have two servers for the entire world (Bloody fast).

    Nova_C on
  • JerikTelorianJerikTelorian Registered User regular
    edited October 2007
    emnmnme wrote: »
    I'm also wondering why a 100 GB Flash Memory HDD would be so much slower than a standard, magnetic HDD. I mean, besides the crippling price, it's just not practical to use Flash memory for storing big chunks of data, right?

    Actually, as far as I understand, Flash memory is faster than HDD. I thought the only thing standing between solid-state and HDD was the crippling price. Something like a 10:1 flash/HD cost ratio.

    This article has some of the arguments about the limiting factors, though I think you'd need to refer to come of those sources to be sure of the facts.

    JerikTelorian on
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    Shade wrote: »
    Anyone notice how some things (mattresses and the copy machines in Highrise) are totally impenetrable? A steel wall, yeah that makes sense, but bullets should obliterate copy machines.

    I don't know about you, but I always buy a bullet proof printer. Its a lot more expensive, but I think the advantages are apparent.
  • Infinity Minus OneInfinity Minus One __BANNED USERS regular
    edited October 2007
    Hard drives are the greatest inventions to come out of the 20th Century.

    There are even hard drives on the market today that can withstand vibrations and shaking, drops, and being submerged in deep waters. Fucking I N S A N E.

    Infinity Minus One on
  • MonaroMonaro Registered User regular
    edited October 2007
    As I understand it:

    HDD has faster sequential read = Faster transfers of large single files.
    Memory has faster random read = Faster transfers or random scattered files.

    Which is probably due to the fact a HDD head would take time to bounce around different parts of the disk for random files.

    Monaro on
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  • Brodo FagginsBrodo Faggins Registered User regular
    edited October 2007
    I dropped my Fantom 160 gig external onto concrete from a height of 5 feet, and the thing still runs. I got a new MyBook 500 gig, but I'll be taking extra special care of this one.

    Brodo Faggins on
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  • Infinity Minus OneInfinity Minus One __BANNED USERS regular
    edited October 2007
    And the first terabyte harddrives are now hitting the market.

    The internet is only 197 Terabytes big.

    That means the internet is only 197 harddrives! There are 300 million people in america!

    For the price of 197 harddrives you could have the entire internet stored on your computer!!

    Infinity Minus One on
  • MalkorMalkor Registered User regular
    edited October 2007
    And the first terabyte harddrives are now hitting the market.

    The internet is only 197 Terabytes big.

    That means the internet is only 197 harddrives! There are 300 million people in america!

    For the price of 197 harddrives you could have the entire internet stored on your computer!!

    I call shenanigans on this.

    Malkor on
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  • leafleaf Registered User regular
    edited October 2007
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    leaf on
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  • MonaroMonaro Registered User regular
    edited October 2007
    Found this:
    In his speech at the annual conference of the National Advertisers Association in 2005, Eric Schmidt, Google CEO, said that, from the data recorded by the search engine, it seems that, at this specific moment, the Internet is made up of 5 million terabytes.

    Even Google, which is considered currently the best search engine ever, has succeeded to index only 170 terabytes up until now, Schmidt said.

    Google has been indexing information for 7 years, and if you want to have an idea on how fast this process is, it seems that, in order to index the 5 million terabytes of data, the search engine would need 300 years. And this would be valid only if nobody posted new content on the Internet...

    So yeah, that's two years ago, I wonder what it'd be up to now, with all these video and social networking sites exploding in popularity.

    Monaro on
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  • DigDug2000DigDug2000 Registered User regular
    edited October 2007
    I think almost everything thinks that spinning hard drives will be replaced by some form of solid state tech in the next 5-10 years. Its amazing they've been pushed as far as they have.

    You can already find machines built with flash solid state drives instead of a normal spinny one out there. Most people (read "me" at least) are hoping something like MRAM manages to come though before Flash gets a complete strangelhold on the world though, because then you get the speed of normal RAM with the non-volitile properties of FLASH. Your machine could be "on" all the time really, even when it wasn't using electricity.

    DigDug2000 on
  • CZroeCZroe Registered User regular
    edited October 2007
    Flash, like storage technology, can easily be rigged to read and write in parallel for insane sustained transfer speeds. ANY storage tech. Remember the floppy disc RAID? Of course, this is at the disadvantage of cost. One/Few giant chip/chips is cheaper than many more separately packaged chips reading and writing together.

    CZroe on
  • emnmnmeemnmnme Registered User regular
    edited October 2007
    I dropped my Fantom 160 gig external onto concrete from a height of 5 feet, and the thing still runs. I got a new MyBook 500 gig, but I'll be taking extra special care of this one.

    And here's where I'm getting puzzled - you can put a kitten inside an airtight safe, lock it, and then pick the safe up and spin around in circles for a minute. When you open that safe, that kitten is going to be dizzy. You can drop a wrench inside a submarine. There's still gravity inside of a vacuum. In those three self-contained environments, I still don't understand how a hard drive's parts don't jumble and bend when you pick them up or hold them upside-down.

    Like a bumblebee being able to fly, it should be impossible to put your desktop PC in the back of your car and carry it to QuakeCon without damaging your HDD.

    emnmnme on
  • MonaroMonaro Registered User regular
    edited October 2007
    LOL That is the most random-ass post I've seen on these forums.

    Monaro on
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  • RaereRaere Registered User regular
    edited October 2007
    Also, flash memory never needs to be defragmented. No moving parts means no time difference in accessing files. The best use for consumers that I see right now seems to be a paging file. That's basically what the Vista ReadyBoost thingy is. So...basically, cheap, slower RAM. Yeah. What you take for granted, huh.

    Raere on
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  • IconoclysmIconoclysm Registered User regular
    edited October 2007
    Back when I were a lad, in order to protect hard drives, you had to run a little command line head parking utility that would move the head away from any area of the platters that held data and lock it in place.
    Now of course the drive does it automatically whenever it powers down, even if the power is cut unexpectedly. Plus posh drives have stuff like accelerometers that detect any excess G forces (like those cause by a drop or knock), and again move the heads out of harms way.

    Fun Fact:
    Before IDE became available, you used to be able to permenantly kil a hard drive by telling to to read from a nonexistant sector. e.g writing a little asm code in debug to get a drive with 1024 sectors to read from sector 9999 or whatever. Back then the drive would just slam the read/write heads into the drive casing. CLACKRUNCH!
    I never did this and didnt have fun not doing it over and over again.

    Iconoclysm on
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  • Atlus ParkerAtlus Parker Registered User regular
    edited October 2007
    And the first terabyte harddrives are now hitting the market.

    The internet is only 197 Terabytes big.

    That means the internet is only 197 harddrives! There are 300 million people in america!

    For the price of 197 harddrives you could have the entire internet stored on your computer!!

    This would answer the age old question: Where is the internet stored?

    Atlus Parker on
  • Big DookieBig Dookie Smells great! Houston, TXRegistered User regular
    edited October 2007
    Hard drives are one of the greatest inventions to come out of the 20th Century.
    Fixed. They're great, but the number one spot goes to the transistor.

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  • emnmnmeemnmnme Registered User regular
    edited October 2007
    Iconoclysm wrote:
    Before IDE became available, you used to be able to permenantly kil a hard drive by telling to to read from a nonexistant sector. e.g writing a little asm code in debug to get a drive with 1024 sectors to read from sector 9999 or whatever. Back then the drive would just slam the read/write heads into the drive casing. CLACKRUNCH!
    I never did this and didnt have fun not doing it over and over again.

    Did that CLACKRUNCH! sound like this one or more like this one?

    emnmnme on
  • Infinity Minus OneInfinity Minus One __BANNED USERS regular
    edited October 2007
    Big Dookie wrote: »
    Hard drives are the greatest inventions to come out of the 20th Century.
    Fixed. They're great, but the number one spot goes to the transistor.


    No sir.

    Infinity Minus One on
  • shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    edited October 2007
    Big Dookie wrote: »
    Hard drives are the greatest inventions to come out of the 20th Century.
    Fixed. They're great, but the number one spot goes to the transistor.


    No sir.

    Sorry, no. The Transistor is the 20th centuries greatest invention. If you don't think so, you don't understand how they work.

    shryke on
  • Infinity Minus OneInfinity Minus One __BANNED USERS regular
    edited October 2007
    shryke wrote: »
    Big Dookie wrote: »
    Hard drives are the greatest inventions EVER.
    Fixed. They're great, but the number one spot goes to the transistor.


    No sir.

    Sorry, no. The Transistor is the 20th centuries greatest invention. If you don't think so, you don't understand how they work.

    NO SIR.

    Infinity Minus One on
  • IconoclysmIconoclysm Registered User regular
    edited October 2007
    emnmnme wrote: »

    Did that CLACKRUNCH! sound like this one or more like this one?

    Definitely more like the very end of no.2. But combined with the noise of rocks being shaken in a biscuit tin. I would imagine...ahem.;-)

    These were big buggers back then, approx 3/4 the size of a modern Shuttle type PC case. They often held in excess of 4 MEGABYTES!!!

    It really amazed me when I bought a CF 2 gig HD a couple of years ago to see how much the technology has advanced. It's one of those things that make me feel like I'm living in 'THE FUTURE'!!

    Iconoclysm on
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  • The_ScarabThe_Scarab Registered User regular
    edited October 2007
    shryke wrote: »
    Big Dookie wrote: »
    Hard drives are the greatest inventions to come out of the 20th Century.
    Fixed. They're great, but the number one spot goes to the transistor.


    No sir.

    Sorry, no. The Transistor is the 20th centuries greatest invention. If you don't think so, you don't understand how they work.

    everyone knows the 20th centuries greatest invention was pot noodle. so you are double ewe arr oh engee.

    The_Scarab on
  • LlorenLloren Registered User new member
    edited October 2007
    Man i wish i know where the vid was that i say in my CS class about how fast the HD moves but this is close http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9eMWG3fwiEU

    and Iconoclysm i remember going to RePc (a recycling store close to Seattle) and saying a HD that was larger then my computer case and its magnetic drum( the piece that stored the data) was larger then a coffee can both my dad and i laughed about the 10MB that it must store.

    but the same way HD's have grown solid state will grow just as fast, and it will soon likely be a reasonable idea to use solid state as a HD. but the cost for solid state will be larger.

    Lloren on
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  • ArcSynArcSyn Registered User regular
    edited October 2007
    And the first terabyte harddrives are now hitting the market.

    The internet is only 197 Terabytes big.

    That means the internet is only 197 harddrives! There are 300 million people in america!

    For the price of 197 harddrives you could have the entire internet stored on your computer!!

    This would answer the age old question: Where is the internet stored?

    That thread is made of awesome!

    ArcSyn on
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