A saddening article on manga

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  • wwtMaskwwtMask Registered User regular
    edited November 2007
    Algertman wrote: »
    Here is some of my collection:

    <BUNCH OF SHIT!>

    Of course, some are not to people's taste and I assume, Yunisaki Milk Tea which is about a cross dressing guy, they will belittle me. Oh well, you can't change people. I like what I like.

    Kipling217: Brilliant rant. Thanks for your opinion. Now I can rest in peace know that a guy like you doesn't like my tastes. Oh well. Too Bad for me to lose to such a valuable opinion.

    Your avatar and signature make you look like a pedophile

    Algertman, do you really have to balance every sensible post with a stupid post?

    Also, I'm not really trying to argue with KA. I just keep trying to see if I can get him to post something that makes sense or doesn't smack of weeaboo myopia.

    wwtMask on
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  • Mr_RoseMr_Rose 83 Blue Ridge Protects the Holy Registered User regular
    edited November 2007
    wwtMask wrote: »
    Also, I'm not really trying to argue with KA. I just keep trying to see if I can get him to post something that makes sense or doesn't smack of weeaboo myopia.
    I reiterate:
    Mr_Rose wrote: »
    I don't normally get into the personal here but you are essentially asking him to breath in space, and we all know there's only one guy that can do that.:P
    The essence of the problem here is attempting to convince Weeaboo Prime that something from Japan is not in fact the "most awesomest thing evar!", which is impossible.

    Mr_Rose on
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  • Kipling217Kipling217 Registered User regular
    edited November 2007
    I am not arguing with KA, I hold him in disrespect. A guy claiming to love manga, but who considers Tezuka just one of the pack? O_o

    Tezuka invented manga as we know it today. The big eyes that manga is famous for? Tezuka created that style! He help found the art of tv animation in Japan. Without him there would be little to no Anime as we know it today. He helped to define and expand genres. Shojo and Shouen Tezuka wrote for both genres. Helping manga grow beyond the narrow confines of "funny animals and kids stuff" we knew in the west. Tezuka, love him or hate him was a great influence on Manga and the debt from him can not be overstated by any fan.

    Thats my problem with KA. Having read several manga on KA list, and while a lot of them are good, several of them are crap. And compared to Astro boy, Princess Knight or Black Jack? I doubt there is one on his list I would trade for an Tezuka series.

    My top 3 Manga recomandations(in no particular orde):

    Astro boy

    Black Jack

    Barefoot Gen(the book that got me into Manga)

    Kipling217 on
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  • hughtronhughtron __BANNED USERS
    edited November 2007
    Man, speaking of Tezuka, MW is so crazy my eyes hurt.

    hughtron on
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  • AlgertmanAlgertman Registered User regular
    edited November 2007
    wwtMask wrote: »
    Algertman wrote: »
    Here is some of my collection:

    <BUNCH OF SHIT!>

    Of course, some are not to people's taste and I assume, Yunisaki Milk Tea which is about a cross dressing guy, they will belittle me. Oh well, you can't change people. I like what I like.

    Kipling217: Brilliant rant. Thanks for your opinion. Now I can rest in peace know that a guy like you doesn't like my tastes. Oh well. Too Bad for me to lose to such a valuable opinion.

    Your avatar and signature make you look like a pedophile

    Algertman, do you really have to balance every sensible post with a stupid post?

    Also, I'm not really trying to argue with KA. I just keep trying to see if I can get him to post something that makes sense or doesn't smack of weeaboo myopia.
    sadly yes

    Algertman on
  • Katchem_ashKatchem_ash __BANNED USERS
    edited November 2007
    Kipling217 wrote: »
    I am not arguing with KA, I hold him in disrespect. A guy claiming to love manga, but who considers Tezuka just one of the pack? O_o

    First of all, I have to honestly laugh. Hold me in disrespect? Where are you from anyway? The 18th Century? Oh my word, Major Featherbottom the III has to hear about this! I have been disrespected! Seriously, whoever you are, learn to realize that hating or disrespecting a person on the net is the lowest of the low and tells how sad you really are. Disrespected, my what a laugh!

    Anyway, yep, I consider him one of the pack. If I really wanted to I could hold up Henry Yoshitaka Kiyama who did much better thinks than Tezuka. Do your "hardcore" friends know who Henry Yoshitaka Kiyama is? No? Do you know who the creator of the first Manga is? The absolute first ever that people rush to get his books once they hear his name and the book he is famous for?

    Think back to 1952 when Astro Boy came out. Now think back even futher when Astro Boy was just a spooge in a mind somewhere. Think of 1931. That my friend and your "hardcore" friends should know about. Do you? You disrespect me yet you hold nothing in your mind. The first one to deal with racism, society and experiences. "Don't get mad, that's real Japanese style of Kind" Do you know that pharse?

    In fact, I should hold You in disrespect for not knowing the most famous mangaka around.

    Katchem_ash on
  • FCDFCD Registered User regular
    edited November 2007
    I've never heard of this Henry Yoshitaka Kiyama fellow, and I've never read an article by anyone deeply familiar with manga that has ever mentioned him. So he's not famous, at least not compared to Osamu Tezuka. You are wrong, K_A. Period.

    FCD on
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  • The Lovely BastardThe Lovely Bastard Registered User regular
    edited November 2007
    Katchem_ash I want to go to Canada to hang out with you because you are just a treat.

    The Lovely Bastard on
  • Katchem_ashKatchem_ash __BANNED USERS
    edited November 2007
    FCD wrote: »
    I've never heard of this Henry Yoshitaka Kiyama fellow, and I've never read an article by anyone deeply familiar with manga that has ever mentioned him. So he's not famous, at least not compared to Osamu Tezuka. You are wrong, K_A. Period.

    Of course not, how well versed are you anyway to forget The Four Immigrants Manga published in 1931 and agian in 1999 by Stone Brigade Press? The First Manga even before Tezuka steped foot in the manga ring.

    Katchem_ash on
  • FCDFCD Registered User regular
    edited November 2007
    FCD wrote: »
    I've never heard of this Henry Yoshitaka Kiyama fellow, and I've never read an article by anyone deeply familiar with manga that has ever mentioned him. So he's not famous, at least not compared to Osamu Tezuka. You are wrong, K_A. Period.

    Of course not, how well versed are you anyway to forget The Four Immigrants Manga published in 1931 and agian in 1999 by Stone Brigade Press? The First Manga even before Tezuka steped foot in the manga ring.

    If you have to be "well versed" to know who Henry Yoshitaka Kiyama is, then he isn't famous, as you claimed he was. And thus, you are wrong. I can't make it any clearer than that.

    FCD on
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  • Katchem_ashKatchem_ash __BANNED USERS
    edited November 2007
    FCD wrote: »
    FCD wrote: »
    I've never heard of this Henry Yoshitaka Kiyama fellow, and I've never read an article by anyone deeply familiar with manga that has ever mentioned him. So he's not famous, at least not compared to Osamu Tezuka. You are wrong, K_A. Period.

    Of course not, how well versed are you anyway to forget The Four Immigrants Manga published in 1931 and agian in 1999 by Stone Brigade Press? The First Manga even before Tezuka steped foot in the manga ring.

    If you have to be "well versed" to know who Henry Yoshitaka Kiyama is, then he isn't famous, as you claimed he was. And thus, you are wrong. I can't make it any clearer than that.

    Nope, once agian, if you claim expertise in Manga and claim to call Tezuka better, you surely should know who Kiyama was.

    to make it clear for you:

    Tezuka is greatest -> Do you know who Kiyama is? - If answer no, Tezuka isn't the greatest. If yes then Kiyama should be considered greater.

    Katchem_ash on
  • FCDFCD Registered User regular
    edited November 2007
    FCD wrote: »
    FCD wrote: »
    I've never heard of this Henry Yoshitaka Kiyama fellow, and I've never read an article by anyone deeply familiar with manga that has ever mentioned him. So he's not famous, at least not compared to Osamu Tezuka. You are wrong, K_A. Period.

    Of course not, how well versed are you anyway to forget The Four Immigrants Manga published in 1931 and agian in 1999 by Stone Brigade Press? The First Manga even before Tezuka steped foot in the manga ring.

    If you have to be "well versed" to know who Henry Yoshitaka Kiyama is, then he isn't famous, as you claimed he was. And thus, you are wrong. I can't make it any clearer than that.

    Nope, once agian, if you claim expertise in Manga and claim to call Tezuka better, you surely should know who Kiyama was.

    to make it clear for you:

    Tezuka is greatest -> Do you know who Kiyama is? - If answer no, Tezuka isn't the greatest. If yes then Kiyama should be considered greater.

    Moving the goalposts, I see. Your claim wasn't that Kiyama was greater than Tezuka, your claim was that he was as famous as Tezuka, which is clearly not the case.

    FCD on
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  • The Lovely BastardThe Lovely Bastard Registered User regular
    edited November 2007
    never thought I'd agree with Ash, but I mean, if you are claiming to be well versed in manga, you should probably know the creator of the first manga.

    That's like saying you love superheroes but don't know who Superman is.

    The Lovely Bastard on
  • FCDFCD Registered User regular
    edited November 2007
    Like I said, that wasn't K_A's claim.

    FCD on
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  • The Lovely BastardThe Lovely Bastard Registered User regular
    edited November 2007
    uh yes it was.

    The Lovely Bastard on
  • Katchem_ashKatchem_ash __BANNED USERS
    edited November 2007
    Yes he was. The creator of the first mordern manga and the first one to be created in the US in the 1930's way before Tezuka was greater than Tezuka himself. If you don't know that then thats not my fault for you being uneducated and making false claims. Tezuka isn't the first modern Mangaka and neither are all Manga wide eyed. Kiyama started it all in 1931.

    And more greater does mean more popular and better than another thing. Thus when I said Kiyama is greater than Tezuka, he is more famous and the creator of the first modern manga. I can't help if you didn't know that.

    Katchem_ash on
  • HooraydiationHooraydiation Registered User
    edited November 2007
    never thought I'd agree with Ash, but I mean, if you are claiming to be well versed in manga, you should probably know the creator of the first manga.

    That's like saying you love superheroes but don't know who Superman is.

    Isn't that more like saying you love comics but don't know who the creator of the first comic book was?

    Which most of us don't?

    Hooraydiation on
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  • FCDFCD Registered User regular
    edited November 2007
    Kipling217 wrote: »
    I am not arguing with KA, I hold him in disrespect. A guy claiming to love manga, but who considers Tezuka just one of the pack? O_o

    First of all, I have to honestly laugh. Hold me in disrespect? Where are you from anyway? The 18th Century? Oh my word, Major Featherbottom the III has to hear about this! I have been disrespected! Seriously, whoever you are, learn to realize that hating or disrespecting a person on the net is the lowest of the low and tells how sad you really are. Disrespected, my what a laugh!

    Anyway, yep, I consider him one of the pack. If I really wanted to I could hold up Henry Yoshitaka Kiyama who did much better thinks than Tezuka. Do your "hardcore" friends know who Henry Yoshitaka Kiyama is? No? Do you know who the creator of the first Manga is? The absolute first ever that people rush to get his books once they hear his name and the book he is famous for?

    Think back to 1952 when Astro Boy came out. Now think back even futher when Astro Boy was just a spooge in a mind somewhere. Think of 1931. That my friend and your "hardcore" friends should know about. Do you? You disrespect me yet you hold nothing in your mind. The first one to deal with racism, society and experiences. "Don't get mad, that's real Japanese style of Kind" Do you know that pharse?

    In fact, I should hold You in disrespect for not knowing the most famous mangaka around.

    Here's K_A's claim, right here. That not only is Kiyama extremely famous, but even more famous than Osamu Tezuka. Back your claim up, K_A, if you could, please.

    FCD on
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  • The Lovely BastardThe Lovely Bastard Registered User regular
    edited November 2007
    never thought I'd agree with Ash, but I mean, if you are claiming to be well versed in manga, you should probably know the creator of the first manga.

    That's like saying you love superheroes but don't know who Superman is.

    Isn't that more like saying you love comics but don't know who the creator of the first comic book was?

    Which most of us don't?

    Rudolph Töpffer

    I thought people knew that.

    The Lovely Bastard on
  • Katchem_ashKatchem_ash __BANNED USERS
    edited November 2007
    FCD wrote: »
    Kipling217 wrote: »
    I am not arguing with KA, I hold him in disrespect. A guy claiming to love manga, but who considers Tezuka just one of the pack? O_o

    First of all, I have to honestly laugh. Hold me in disrespect? Where are you from anyway? The 18th Century? Oh my word, Major Featherbottom the III has to hear about this! I have been disrespected! Seriously, whoever you are, learn to realize that hating or disrespecting a person on the net is the lowest of the low and tells how sad you really are. Disrespected, my what a laugh!

    Anyway, yep, I consider him one of the pack. If I really wanted to I could hold up Henry Yoshitaka Kiyama who did much better thinks than Tezuka. Do your "hardcore" friends know who Henry Yoshitaka Kiyama is? No? Do you know who the creator of the first Manga is? The absolute first ever that people rush to get his books once they hear his name and the book he is famous for?

    Think back to 1952 when Astro Boy came out. Now think back even futher when Astro Boy was just a spooge in a mind somewhere. Think of 1931. That my friend and your "hardcore" friends should know about. Do you? You disrespect me yet you hold nothing in your mind. The first one to deal with racism, society and experiences. "Don't get mad, that's real Japanese style of Kind" Do you know that pharse?

    In fact, I should hold You in disrespect for not knowing the most famous mangaka around.

    Here's K_A's claim, right here. That not only is Kiyama extremely famous, but even more famous than Osamu Tezuka. Back your claim up, K_A, if you could, please.

    Back what up? That he's famous? See they have this site called google which leads you to various portals in which you can find for yourself! Freaky I know!

    Here are a couple of strips.
    http://www.stonebridge.com/KiyamaImage/kiyamaexc.html

    here's info about him:
    http://bad.eserver.org/reviews/2000/2000-2-14-8.28PM.html

    Here is a review:
    http://www.sequart.com/reviews/?review=1735

    Really I don't know why you don't research for it yourself instead of putting fingers in your ears and shout "NUH UH"

    Edit:

    Time article:
    http://www.time.com/time/columnist/arnold/article/0,9565,1029794,00.html

    Katchem_ash on
  • FCDFCD Registered User regular
    edited November 2007
    FCD wrote: »
    Kipling217 wrote: »
    I am not arguing with KA, I hold him in disrespect. A guy claiming to love manga, but who considers Tezuka just one of the pack? O_o

    First of all, I have to honestly laugh. Hold me in disrespect? Where are you from anyway? The 18th Century? Oh my word, Major Featherbottom the III has to hear about this! I have been disrespected! Seriously, whoever you are, learn to realize that hating or disrespecting a person on the net is the lowest of the low and tells how sad you really are. Disrespected, my what a laugh!

    Anyway, yep, I consider him one of the pack. If I really wanted to I could hold up Henry Yoshitaka Kiyama who did much better thinks than Tezuka. Do your "hardcore" friends know who Henry Yoshitaka Kiyama is? No? Do you know who the creator of the first Manga is? The absolute first ever that people rush to get his books once they hear his name and the book he is famous for?

    Think back to 1952 when Astro Boy came out. Now think back even futher when Astro Boy was just a spooge in a mind somewhere. Think of 1931. That my friend and your "hardcore" friends should know about. Do you? You disrespect me yet you hold nothing in your mind. The first one to deal with racism, society and experiences. "Don't get mad, that's real Japanese style of Kind" Do you know that pharse?

    In fact, I should hold You in disrespect for not knowing the most famous mangaka around.

    Here's K_A's claim, right here. That not only is Kiyama extremely famous, but even more famous than Osamu Tezuka. Back your claim up, K_A, if you could, please.

    Back what up? That he's famous? See they have this site called google which leads you to various portals in which you can find for yourself! Freaky I know!

    Here are a couple of strips.
    http://www.stonebridge.com/KiyamaImage/kiyamaexc.html

    here's info about him:
    http://bad.eserver.org/reviews/2000/2000-2-14-8.28PM.html

    Here is a review:
    http://www.sequart.com/reviews/?review=1735

    Really I don't know why you don't research for it yourself instead of putting fingers in your ears and shout "NUH UH"

    Edit:

    Time article:
    http://www.time.com/time/columnist/arnold/article/0,9565,1029794,00.html

    Because it was your claim. It is not my job to back up the things that you say. If you want people to believe you, back your claims up yourself.

    And while the links you provide show that he is a historicaly important artist, historical importance does not equal fame. So again, your claim is incorrect.

    FCD on
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  • Katchem_ashKatchem_ash __BANNED USERS
    edited November 2007
    Good God. Sheeh whatever.

    So historical importance isn't fame? Well golly, the Tezuka isn't of any importance is he? After all he was famous for a couple of Manga which have over shadowed by the newer series.

    last time I checked Historical Importance did equal fame, otherwise, events in history wouldn't be recongized by anyone as something famous.

    Edit:

    By your claim, since importance =/= fame, CLAMP is more famous than Tezuka.

    Katchem_ash on
  • HooraydiationHooraydiation Registered User
    edited November 2007
    It practically goes without saying, but this is idiotic and pointless.

    Hooraydiation on
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  • FCDFCD Registered User regular
    edited November 2007
    Good God. Sheeh whatever.

    So historical importance isn't fame? Well golly, the Tezuka isn't of any importance is he? After all he was famous for a couple of Manga which have over shadowed by the newer series.

    Which is why people are still making new video games and anime series based on his works, right? Because he isn't famous, and neither is his work?

    last time I checked Historical Importance did equal fame, otherwise, events in history wouldn't be recongized by anyone as something famous.

    Edit:

    By your claim, since importance =/= fame, CLAMP is more famous than Tezuka.

    The Code of Hammurabi is also of historical importance, but I wouldn't call that famous now, would you? Certainly, things which are of historical import can be famous, but, here's the clincher here, not all things that are historically important are also famous. Try to let that sink in.

    FCD on
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  • Katchem_ashKatchem_ash __BANNED USERS
    edited November 2007
    FCD wrote: »
    Good God. Sheeh whatever.

    So historical importance isn't fame? Well golly, the Tezuka isn't of any importance is he? After all he was famous for a couple of Manga which have over shadowed by the newer series.

    Which is why people are still making new video games and anime series based on his works, right? Because he isn't famous, and neither is his work?

    last time I checked Historical Importance did equal fame, otherwise, events in history wouldn't be recongized by anyone as something famous.

    Edit:

    By your claim, since importance =/= fame, CLAMP is more famous than Tezuka.

    The Code of Hammurabi is also of historical importance, but I wouldn't call that famous now, would you? Certainly, things which are of historical import can be famous, but, here's the clincher here, not all things that are historically important are also famous. Try to let that sink in.

    Did you call the Code of Hammurabi not famous? My god, do you even know what your talking about?

    Katchem_ash on
  • DouglasDangerDouglasDanger PennsylvaniaRegistered User regular
    edited November 2007
    Man what the hell has happened to this thread?

    Does anyone still read Gantz? That started off pretty awesome, but it seemed like it was never going anywhere after about 200 chapters, so I stopped reading it. Is it worth looking at again?

    DouglasDanger on
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  • NewtronNewtron Registered User regular
    edited November 2007
    I dont care whats happening right now in this thread.


    I'm just here to make the point that anime and manga produce people like otakukin.

    Newtron on
  • HooraydiationHooraydiation Registered User
    edited November 2007
    Newtron wrote: »
    I dont care whats happening right now in this thread.


    I'm just here to make the point that anime and manga produce people like otakukin.

    I'm sure they always existed. They just used to obsess over penny dreadfuls and, I don't know, the Bible.

    Hooraydiation on
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  • LeumasWhiteLeumasWhite New ZealandRegistered User regular
    edited November 2007
    Comics produce the Creepy Comic Store Dude, manga produces Ash. It's all the same.

    Gantz has nice fights. That's all I really care about. Plus the main character stopped being a douche, which is nice.

    LeumasWhite on
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  • FCDFCD Registered User regular
    edited November 2007
    I'm done here, btw. Just put K_A on my ignore list. Should've done that ages ago.

    FCD on
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  • wwtMaskwwtMask Registered User regular
    edited November 2007
    I'm not gonna put KA on my ignore list, but he'll definitely go on my "man, what?" list. The arguments he's been involved in in this thread have reached new heights (depths?) of illogic and inanity for GV. Considering this is the comics forum, that's saying quite a bit.

    wwtMask on
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  • The Lovely BastardThe Lovely Bastard Registered User regular
    edited November 2007
    K_A does not thrive on logic.

    But he is so fun to watch.

    The Lovely Bastard on
  • kdrudykdrudy Registered User
    edited November 2007
    To be fair, Rumiko Takahashi is really the most famous mangka.

    Gantz has gotten interesting, there was a big period in the middle when the main character actually developed and then up to the end of the first part it was really good. The second part has been going for a while at the same erratic schedule the first part had and it is moving kind of slowly. It would be better to read in book format I think rather then weekly.

    kdrudy on
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  • KreutzKreutz Registered User regular
    edited November 2007
    Comics produce the Creepy Comic Store Dude, manga produces Ash. It's all the same.

    Quoted for the most intelligent post on this page.

    Kreutz on
  • KING LITERATEKING LITERATE Registered User regular
    edited November 2007
    This is what I found on Henry Yoshitaka Kiyama:


    http://www.jai2.com/HK.htm

    Henry Yoshitaka Kiyama
    and
    The Four Immigrants Manga




    HKportr.JPG



    Henry Yoshitaka Kiyama was born on January 9, 1885, in Neu, a little village in Tottori Prefecture, western Japan. In 1904, at the age of nineteen, he sailed to San Francisco, where there was a growing community of Japanese immigrants, many of whom were shosei, or young student-workers.

    Kiyama was a talented artist, and while working at a variety of jobs he attended the San Francisco Art Institute. He excelled at life-drawing and painting, and between 1915 and 1920 won several awards and mentions. He also won a scholarship from the New York Art Students League and exhibited his work several times in San Francisco. An April 20, 1920, article in the San Francisco Bulletin reported on an exhibit at the Palace of Fine Arts, and described Kiyama's work as follows: "[His no. 115], Old Wagon Shed, is a solidly modeled, well balanced and vigorously colored design, and his 114, Old House at North Beach, in room 15, in soft green and gray, is quietly effective."

    Many of Kiyama's works survive today and are occasionally exhibited in the Yonago City Art Museum in Tottori Prefecture. He has a considerable reputation in the area of his birth, not as a cartoonist, but as an example of an early local artist who mastered Western art techniques.

    Kiyama lived in San Francisco off and on until 1937, eventually opening his own art studio at 1901 Sutter Street, in nihonmachi, or "Japantown." It was a period of intense discrimination and agitation against Asian, and particularly Japanese, immigrants.

    In 1937, Kiyama returned temporarily to his homeland. While he was there, war broke out between the United States and Japan. Unable to return to San Francisco, Kiyama taught art at a local high school in Neu, and continued painting. Henry Kiyama died on April 24, 1951, at the age of sixty-six. Cartooning was but a small part of his life, but the comic book he created in San Francisco may ultimately ensure his lasting fame.









    4IMCVR.JPG
    Cover to the Stone Bridge Press edition of
    Kiyama's 1931 book,The Four Immigrants Manga.




    I also found this interesting article on the site:

    --Was the first American original comic book created by a Japanese immigrant?--


    "Comics," as we usually think of them, are pictures with "word balloons" in sequential panels that tell a story. They mainly take the form of short newspaper "comic strips" and longer "comic books." As Bill Blackbeard and Martin Williams note in the Smithsonian Collection of Newspaper Comics, comic strips achieved their modern form in the United States starting around 1896, the year Richard Felton Outcault's Yellow Kid ran in the American Humorist weekly supplement in the New York Journal. For at least three decades almost all comics were short serialized newspaper strips, not the "comic books" we have today.

    Comic books with original material are often said to have started around February 1935, when New Fun was issued by DC comics. Prior to that time there were some comic "books," but these were merely newspaper comic strips compiled into book form and sold as collections or anthologies. New Fun was a magazine published with all original material, much of it authored by Major Malcolm Wheeler-Nicholson, a former cavalry officer and pulp fiction writer. Its success set the stage for classic American comic book titles such as Superman and Batman, which appeared in 1938 and 1940, respectively.

    So how does Kiyama's book fit into all this? According to surviving San Francisco Japanese-language newspaper accounts, he exhibited his entire story at Kinmon Gakuen ("Golden Gate Institute") in mid-February, 1927. In order to do so, he must have started working on the series in 1926, if not earlier. Kazuo Ebina, a San Francisco newspaper columnist who wrote under the pen name of Shunshuro for the Nichi Bei, or The Japanese American News, visited the 1927 exhibit and noted that Kiyama had created his comic in the hopes of having it serialized in a newspaper. Indeed, when it was exhibited it consisted of 52 episodes of 12 panels each, corresponding to one year's weekly serialization in a newspaper. It was then titled Manga Hokubei Iminshi, or "A Manga North American Immigrant History."

    Why was Kiyama unable to serialize his story in a newspaper? A variety of reasons come to mind. First, it was extremely long (104 pages). In those days an artist trying to sell a story for newspaper serialization would never have created an entire, integral work of so many pages (with a beginning and even an end!) for submission. Furthermore, it was probably too documentary in nature and too adult in content. In the 1920s comic strips were read by the whole family, and they did not deal with racism and social and political issues the way Kiyama's work did. Finally, the bilingual nature of his comic required that readers understand both Japanese and English. This meant that the only publications capable of serializing his story were the few local Japanese language papers in major cities in the United States.

    Kiyama eventually elected to self-publish. He had his work printed in Japan at Kumaya Printers in Tokyo on January 25th and then brought it back to America, issuing it as a book titled Manga Yonin Shosei ("The Four Students Comic") on March 3, 1931. For the place of publication, he listed his studio on 1901 Sutter Street, San Francisco, California.

    If Kiyama's book appeared four years before New Fun, is it the "first American comic book"? It could be, but it depends on how one defines a comic book, and not everyone agrees on a definition today. Some people would argue passionately that the first comic books were humorous Japanese illustrated woodblock print books from the 18th century, or European illustrated books from the 19th century. Kiyama's book also does not resemble a typical modern American "comic book" in the sense that it is hardbound and over 100 pages, as opposed to the magazine-style, stapled publications of thirty or so pages popular today. Its visual style resembles that of U.S. gag newspaper strips popular in the early twentieth century, but its content-- a serious story of an autobiographical nature, using apparently "real" characters, who mature and develop over time-- is closer to a modern "graphic novel" than it is to early comic strips or comic books.

    Is Kiyama's work the first "graphic novel"? Is it the first "modern-format American comic book"? Experts will probably find much to discuss and argue about. No matter what their conclusions, it is one of a kind, and the first of its kind.

    Frederik L. Schodt
    November 5, 1998

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  • The One Dark KnightThe One Dark Knight Registered User
    edited November 2007
    You can't just say all manga sucks, because that's like saying all comic books suck. It's a specific style. From my personal experience both the fanbases can be equally obnoxious. I don't actually read much manga myself but I'm pretty partial to it now and again, claymore, hellsing, D gray man, etc. And I don't care what you say, Berserk is one of the best god damn comic books out there, period. Who cares if it's manga, it's fucking amazing.

    On the other side of the spectrum, there are a lot of comic books too which are pretty bad (Civil War anyone?).


    But then again, it's all just opinion. Don't get so riled up over it.

    The One Dark Knight on
    [END]
  • InquisitorInquisitor Registered User regular
    edited November 2007
    This is the thread equivalent of a train wreck.

    It needs to be taken out back and shot.

    Inquisitor on
  • DJ EebsDJ Eebs Moderator mod
    edited November 2007
    If you guys want a manga thread, make a manga thread where people don't bitch about how manga sucks/nuh uh manga doesn't suck, you suck. Until then, I will lock them every time.

    Also, if I see people doing that in a thread from now on, you will be infracted.

    DJ Eebs on
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