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[Vae Victus] Let's talk about Legacy of Kain (Spoilers in OP, read at your own risk)

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    PowerslavePowerslave Registered User regular
    edited November 2007
    Snork wrote: »
    I think some things are just beyond our comprehension.

    The sword ended up in young Kain's possession thanks to Moebius I think since he wanted him to attack the Nemesis and incite that vampire war that would wipe out the vampire race apart from Kain.

    And yes, the sword is actually called the blood reaver and absorbs blood, plus its just generally powerful. But when it was stuck into Raziel it started consuming his soul but it started consuming his soul because his soul, the reaver, was already in there and famished for some soul, which Raziel had but which was being eaten up by his soul in the sword because its the soul of the reaver that likes to eat souls which it can do because its impaled in Raziels chest and is eating his soul.

    The blood reaver broke because Raziels soul within the sword couldn't be used to cut his soul in Raziels corpse.

    Except if his soul was within the Blood Reaver it would be the Soul Reaver.


    Its still a blood reaver as far as I'm aware but I think it was renamed to the Soul Reaver in the Nosgoth future.

    No, it ate souls after Raziel sucked himself into it.

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    SnorkSnork word Jamaica Plain, MARegistered User regular
    edited November 2007
    What is the Reaver that Kain breaks over Raziel then? Blood Reaver or Soul Reaver?

    Snork on
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    PowerslavePowerslave Registered User regular
    edited November 2007
    Snork wrote: »
    What is the Reaver that Kain breaks over Raziel then? Blood Reaver or Soul Reaver?

    The Soul Reaver, and it shatters because it couldn't devour its own soul. At least, it couldn't devour it's own soul yet, because then it wouldn't exist to devour its own soul, resulting in a paradox. So, to avoid that paradox, the Reaver shatters.

    Edit: a bit of clarity on the swords: the Blood Reaver ceases to be so once Raziel imprisons himself in it.

    extra edit: and gofdamn it is hard to describe Raziel's relationship to the Soul Reaver without being unintentionally confusing.

    Powerslave on
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    SimBenSimBen Hodor? Hodor Hodor.Registered User regular
    edited November 2007
    Okay, so here's how the timeline goes from the Reaver's perspective:
    1) The Blood Reaver is forged by Vorador as a vessel for the prophesized Vampire Hero (i.e. Raziel), to be wielded by the Scion of Balance (i.e. Kain). It is kept by Janos Audron for safekeeping.
    2) Human Raziel raids Janos' place, kills him, and runs off with his heart and the Reaver. Future Raziel witnesses the scene, follows the Sarafan back to their stronghold, Moebius has Malek force Raziel to pick up the Reaver, and Raziel uses it to single-handedly murder every last Sarafan (or, well, most of them and each of their leaders), ending the original crusade.
    3) After killing his own human self, the Reaver begins absorbing Raziel. Kain steps in to intervene and prevents the merging. Raziel fades to the Spirit Realm, Kain claims the Blood Reaver.
    4) Kain and Raziel meet up at the Elder God's place, where Raziel finally merges with the Reaver. Kain uses it to fight off the Elder God and then leaves.
    5) UNKNOWN: The Soul Reaver goes from Kain's hands in 0 AFP (After the Fall of the Pillars) to William the Just's, several years in the past.
    6) William the Just is killed by the fledgling Kain; the Soul Reaver is kept in Avernus Cathedral as a relic.
    7) The fledgling Kain stumbles upon the Soul Reaver, uses it to go back and kill William the Just, and eventually loses it to the Hylden Lord in his first attempt at conquering Nosgoth after the pillars fall.
    8) Kain eventually wins the Reaver back from the Hylden Lord and uses it to defeat him. He keeps the sword all the way to the future, where...
    9) The physical Reaver shatters when it collides with Raziel's soul. Raziel's own soul binds with Raziel and becomes his spectral Reaver.
    10) Raziel takes the spectral Reaver on his time-traveling antics and eventually is absorbed back into the physical Reaver when he catches up to point 4.

    SimBen on
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    randombattlerandombattle Registered User regular
    edited November 2007
    Maybe I just don't remember but how in the world did Raziel turn into the soul sucking vampire form anyway since we learn that the Elder God had bub kiss to do with it.

    randombattle on
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    MasoniteMasonite Registered User regular
    edited November 2007
    Noray wrote: »
    And also, am I correct in assuming that really not that much of great importance happened in SR1 except for introducing Raziel and the Elder God, and Raziel getting the reaver and basically learning who he is?

    Pretty much, though it would help to establish who Raziel is (as a character) by playing through the game. I'd argue that you'd get a lot more out of the final battle in SR2 having played through SR.
    Like, compared to BO, it seems like not a lot of critical story stuff happened to it, it seemed more to introduce us to Raziel and the world of Nozgoth post-Kain, as it were. It seems like Kain already knew that he was setting in motion something great, basically the game seems like a prelude to SR2 and Defiance. Is it worth tracking down the game for PSX/DC or am I set reading the summary and just going on with SR2?
    It's a pretty fun game regardless of how much it adds to the overall story. Granted, it was my introduction into the series, but I find myself going back to it a lot more often that I do SR2 (despite its awesome story and interesting puzzles, everything else about the game I found to be either frustrating or just flat-out annoying).
    SimBen wrote: »
    Okay, so here's how the timeline goes from the Reaver's perspective:
    1) The Blood Reaver is forged by Vorador as a vessel for the prophesized Vampire Hero (i.e. Raziel), to be wielded by the Scion of Balance (i.e. Kain). It is kept by Janos Audron for safekeeping.
    2) Human Raziel raids Janos' place, kills him, and runs off with his heart. Future Raziel witnesses the scene, grabs the Blood Reaver, and goes off to avenge Janos.
    3) After killing his own human self, the Reaver begins absorbing Raziel. Kain steps in to intervene and prevents the merging. Raziel fades to the Spirit Realm, Kain claims the Blood Reaver.
    4) Kain and Raziel meet up at the Elder God's place, where Raziel finally merges with the Reaver. Kain uses it to fight off the Elder God and then leaves.
    5) UNKNOWN: The Soul Reaver goes from Kain's hands in 0 AFP (After the Fall of the Pillars) to William the Just's, several years in the past.
    6) William the Just is killed by the fledgling Kain; the Soul Reaver is kept in Avernus Cathedral as a relic.
    7) The fledgling Kain stumbles upon the Soul Reaver, uses it to go back and kill William the Just, and eventually loses it to the Hylden Lord in his first attempt at conquering Nosgoth after the pillars fall.
    8) Kain eventually wins the Reaver back from the Hylden Lord and uses it to defeat him. He keeps the sword all the way to the future, where...
    9) The physical Reaver shatters when it collides with Raziel's soul. Raziel's own soul binds with Raziel and becomes his spectral Reaver.
    10) Raziel takes the spectral Reaver on his time-traveling antics and eventually is absorbed back into the physical Reaver when he catches up to point 4.

    I don't know that the timeline would continue on to SR from BO2 unmolested.
    Because the wraith blade was purified by Ariel at the spirit forge, and because Raziel chose to be absorbed into the blade (as opposed to being consumed by it), there would have to be some distinguishing differences between the SR era we've seen and the one that follows BO2.

    Masonite on
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    SimBenSimBen Hodor? Hodor Hodor.Registered User regular
    edited November 2007
    To whoever asked why Mortanius vampired Kain even though he knew it'd end up killing him in the end:
    Mortanius was possessed by the Hylden Lord, and it's under his influence that he murdered Ariel and started the whole corrupted-pillars thing. Then Mortanius, regaining control over himself, had Kain (the new Balance Guardian) killed and revived him as a vampire so he could send him on his quest to restore the Pillars - Mortanius accepted to sacrifice himself to save Nosgoth.

    SimBen on
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    yalborapyalborap Registered User regular
    edited November 2007
    God I love this series.

    And I still can't believe I have even a vague grasp of what the fuck happens in it.

    yalborap on
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    SnorkSnork word Jamaica Plain, MARegistered User regular
    edited November 2007
    SimBen wrote: »
    Okay, so here's how the timeline goes from the Reaver's perspective:
    1) The Blood Reaver is forged by Vorador as a vessel for the prophesized Vampire Hero (i.e. Raziel), to be wielded by the Scion of Balance (i.e. Kain). It is kept by Janos Audron for safekeeping.
    2) Human Raziel raids Janos' place, kills him, and runs off with his heart. Future Raziel witnesses the scene, grabs the Blood Reaver, and goes off to avenge Janos.
    3) After killing his own human self, the Reaver begins absorbing Raziel. Kain steps in to intervene and prevents the merging. Raziel fades to the Spirit Realm, Kain claims the Blood Reaver.
    4) Kain and Raziel meet up at the Elder God's place, where Raziel finally merges with the Reaver. Kain uses it to fight off the Elder God and then leaves.
    5) UNKNOWN: The Soul Reaver goes from Kain's hands in 0 AFP (After the Fall of the Pillars) to William the Just's, several years in the past.
    6) William the Just is killed by the fledgling Kain; the Soul Reaver is kept in Avernus Cathedral as a relic.
    7) The fledgling Kain stumbles upon the Soul Reaver, uses it to go back and kill William the Just, and eventually loses it to the Hylden Lord in his first attempt at conquering Nosgoth after the pillars fall.
    8) Kain eventually wins the Reaver back from the Hylden Lord and uses it to defeat him. He keeps the sword all the way to the future, where...
    9) The physical Reaver shatters when it collides with Raziel's soul. Raziel's own soul binds with Raziel and becomes his spectral Reaver.
    10) Raziel takes the spectral Reaver on his time-traveling antics and eventually is absorbed back into the physical Reaver when he catches up to point 4.
    Yeah, I realized my problem with understanding after I remembered that Raziel does not get abosorbed into the Soul Reaver at the end of Defiance, he gets absorbed into the Blood Reaver and that makes it the Soul Reaver.
    PS I think you have the William the Just thing in the wrong place, because Kain goes back in time to kill him in Blood Omen, which means that this would have to happen before 5, as William the Just was way before the Fall of the Pillars.

    Snork on
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    SimBenSimBen Hodor? Hodor Hodor.Registered User regular
    edited November 2007
    Snork wrote: »
    SimBen wrote: »
    Okay, so here's how the timeline goes from the Reaver's perspective:
    1) The Blood Reaver is forged by Vorador as a vessel for the prophesized Vampire Hero (i.e. Raziel), to be wielded by the Scion of Balance (i.e. Kain). It is kept by Janos Audron for safekeeping.
    2) Human Raziel raids Janos' place, kills him, and runs off with his heart. Future Raziel witnesses the scene, grabs the Blood Reaver, and goes off to avenge Janos.
    3) After killing his own human self, the Reaver begins absorbing Raziel. Kain steps in to intervene and prevents the merging. Raziel fades to the Spirit Realm, Kain claims the Blood Reaver.
    4) Kain and Raziel meet up at the Elder God's place, where Raziel finally merges with the Reaver. Kain uses it to fight off the Elder God and then leaves.
    5) UNKNOWN: The Soul Reaver goes from Kain's hands in 0 AFP (After the Fall of the Pillars) to William the Just's, several years in the past.
    6) William the Just is killed by the fledgling Kain; the Soul Reaver is kept in Avernus Cathedral as a relic.
    7) The fledgling Kain stumbles upon the Soul Reaver, uses it to go back and kill William the Just, and eventually loses it to the Hylden Lord in his first attempt at conquering Nosgoth after the pillars fall.
    8) Kain eventually wins the Reaver back from the Hylden Lord and uses it to defeat him. He keeps the sword all the way to the future, where...
    9) The physical Reaver shatters when it collides with Raziel's soul. Raziel's own soul binds with Raziel and becomes his spectral Reaver.
    10) Raziel takes the spectral Reaver on his time-traveling antics and eventually is absorbed back into the physical Reaver when he catches up to point 4.
    Yeah, I realized my problem with understanding after I remembered that Raziel does not get abosorbed into the Soul Reaver at the end of Defiance, he gets absorbed into the Blood Reaver and that makes it the Soul Reaver.
    PS I think you have the William the Just thing in the wrong place, because Kain goes back in time to kill him in Blood Omen, which means that this would have to happen before 5, as William the Just was way before the Fall of the Pillars.

    William the Just had the full Soul Reaver, and that's what corrupted him until he became the Nemesis. He therefore has to acquire it sometime after the end of Defiance. I know that's in the past; the only possible answer for this is that the Reaver traveled back to the past at some point to land in William's hands. Whether Kain, Moebius or someone else brought it to the past, and for what reason, is still unknown.

    The one thing I did get wrong, is that it's not Raziel who grabbed the Reaver from Janos' place. Well, it WAS, but it was Sarafan Raziel; vampire Raziel followed them back to their stronghold, where he was forced to pick it up by Moebius and Malek.

    SimBen on
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    StriferStrifer Registered User regular
    edited November 2007
    I have to admit that, while the narrative aspect of the series is nothing short of stellar (only BO2 is exempt from this), the gameplay sometimes leaves a lot to be desired. It just isn't as flexible and smooth as I would like it to be, especially when you realize that you are playing as a vampire that controls a bit like a tank, complete with forced camera angles (Vorador's Mansion in Defiance had those abominable shifting pillars outside in the courtyard).

    Strifer on
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    SimBenSimBen Hodor? Hodor Hodor.Registered User regular
    edited November 2007
    Strifer wrote: »
    I have to admit that, while the narrative aspect of the series is nothing short of stellar (only BO2 is exempt from this), the gameplay sometimes leaves a lot to be desired. It just isn't as flexible and smooth as I would like it to be, especially when you realize that you are playing as a vampire that controls a bit like a tank, complete with forced camera angles (Vorador's Mansion in Defiance had those abominable shifting pillars outside in the courtyard).

    The only one that controls like a tank is BO2. Both Soul Reavers and Defiance control like Zelda, and BO1 controls like a stiffer 2D Zelda. :P

    One thing I'm proud of having discovered on my own is that you can dodge-cancel your attacks in Defiance, making your attacks much faster than the built-in combo system.

    SimBen on
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    Jam WarriorJam Warrior Registered User regular
    edited November 2007
    Kudos to an excellent thread opener. Took me from zero interest in the series to putting them on my possible future play list.

    So many games, so little time...

    Jam Warrior on
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    SithDrummerSithDrummer Registered User regular
    edited November 2007
    SimBen wrote: »
    William the Just had the full Soul Reaver, and that's what corrupted him until he became the Nemesis. He therefore has to acquire it sometime after the end of Defiance. I know that's in the past; the only possible answer for this is that the Reaver traveled back to the past at some point to land in William's hands. Whether Kain, Moebius or someone else brought it to the past, and for what reason, is still unknown.
    Actually, I'm fairly certain it was written somewhere that Moebius gave it to him. Remember, he was intending to set up the vampires for extinction; by giving William the Just the Soul Reaver he was cursing him to eventually be corrupted into the Nemesis, and since the only way to change the course of history is to introduce a paradox (in the form of the two copies of the Soul Reaver clashing), arranged for William/The Nemesis to die before his time and incite a vampire purge.

    SithDrummer on
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    templewulftemplewulf The Team Chump USARegistered User regular
    edited November 2007
    Why is it I don't remember Kain saving Raziel from being consumed by the Soul Reaver? I remember him getting stuck to it at the end of SR2, but then everything seems to skip ahead at the beginning of Defiance.

    Am I meant to assume what happened, or did I miss a scene somewhere?

    Also, is there an original event that causes Raziel's soul to first get stuck in the Reaver to absorb future Raziel souls? I don't remember how it goes from Blood Reaver to Soul Reaver, except for the pure version at the end of Defiance.

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    yalborapyalborap Registered User regular
    edited November 2007
    templewulf wrote: »
    Why is it I don't remember Kain saving Raziel from being consumed by the Soul Reaver? I remember him getting stuck to it at the end of SR2, but then everything seems to skip ahead at the beginning of Defiance.

    Am I meant to assume what happened, or did I miss a scene somewhere?

    Also, is there an original event that causes Raziel's soul to first get stuck in the Reaver to absorb future Raziel souls? I don't remember how it goes from Blood Reaver to Soul Reaver, except for the pure version at the end of Defiance.
    End cutscene of SR2. Raziel gets shanked by his own reaver, Kain yanks it at the last second, Raziel gets pulled back into the spectral realm from weakness, History Abhors A Paradox.

    Pure version(or as close to pure as we can get): Kain DOESN'T yank the shank, Raziel goes into the reaver.

    yalborap on
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    PowerslavePowerslave Registered User regular
    edited November 2007
    templewulf wrote: »
    Also, is there an original event that causes Raziel's soul to first get stuck in the Reaver to absorb future Raziel souls? I don't remember how it goes from Blood Reaver to Soul Reaver, except for the pure version at the end of Defiance.

    There is no original event, which is what makes Raziel the desired pawn of pretty much every major power-player in Nosgoth's past, present, and future. He has the Ouroboros thing going on: he gets turned into soul-sucking wraith, bonds with soul-sucking wraith sword that is him, goes back in time, his bonded wraith-sword (which is actually him) sucks him into the sword, which then breaks and bonds with him, which then goes back in time, which then sucks him into the sword, which-

    you get the idea. The Soul Reaver had no definite beginning, but curiously enough it now has a definite end after the end of Defiance: the sword is purified, and then it turns purifies Kain of his long-held madness, in turn releasing Raziel from his eons of torment. Of course, Raziel still goes into the blade willingly, so he's still got another round of waiting a few millenia and then bonding to himself and then jumping some time spans and then getting purified himself.

    And the sword went from Blood Reaver to Soul Reaver right after Raziel killed his past Sarafan self, when the blade, wrapped in bizarre symbiosis with the wraith sword, turned itself on Raziel and tried to devour him. This was the case, at least, until Kain stepped in and pulled it out.

    Powerslave on
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    WybornWyborn GET EQUIPPED Registered User regular
    edited November 2007
    I've been meaning to get the original Legacy of Kain because I hear it has the best writing in the series. Any truth to that?

    And if so, do I have to look on eBay for the PC version? There's gotta be some actual online store...

    Wyborn on
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    Golden YakGolden Yak Burnished Bovine The sunny beaches of CanadaRegistered User regular
    edited November 2007
    I don't think the sword was ever in need of any kind of purification.
    If you look at the end of Defiance, the energy that purifies Kain comes from Raziel's talon, then he disappears into the physical blade.

    Unless you meant Raz's wraith-blade self in the first place, in which case, nevermind.

    If Raziel's wraith-blade self is free now, any future Kain games will probably have Raziel appear as a disembodied spirit that only Kain can see, as if Raziel is now haunting Kain himself. Kinda like a freaky Jiminy Cricket.

    Golden Yak on
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    SilpheedSilpheed Registered User regular
    edited November 2007
    Wyborn wrote: »
    I've been meaning to get the original Legacy of Kain because I hear it has the best writing in the series. Any truth to that?
    The writing is great but you also get a better look into Nosgoroth since the game is far more Zelda-centric than the sequels were. You get to use a lot of different Vampire powers such as turning into a Werewolf/Vampire hybrid, transforming yourself into a normal person in order to be able to speak to normal people and several different weapons and armours. I always thought about this game as Zelda with a far more interesting world and a bloodsucking, sarcastic Link.

    Silpheed on
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    SimBenSimBen Hodor? Hodor Hodor.Registered User regular
    edited November 2007
    Blood Omen 1 has the deepest game system in the entire series. It's got lots and lots of weapons, armors, items and magic spells to pick from, you can morph into various forms, etc.

    Plus it's the only game in the series in which you get to visit ALL of Nosgoth (well, except for Meridian). The other ones only take place in a tiny geographical area (Soul Reaver 2, in particular, is entirely contained in the area that spans between the Sarafan Stronghold (just south of the Pillars) and Janos Audron's home (just north of Coorhagen)).

    And it has more unique characters than the rest of the series put together. True, they're not nearly as well-developed as the mainstays, but it's where you'll find the most Nupraptor, Malek and Mortanius per megabyte in the whole series. :P

    SimBen on
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    StriferStrifer Registered User regular
    edited November 2007
    Golden Yak wrote: »
    If Raziel's wraith-blade self is free now, any future Kain games will probably have Raziel appear as a disembodied spirit that only Kain can see, as if Raziel is now haunting Kain himself. Kinda like a freaky Jiminy Cricket.

    This. Some more Raziel would be awesome. I know it would be far-fetched, but I really loved his character.

    I need to see that scene of purification again. It is completely worth it to play the whole series just for that glorious moment when you can see the proof that storytelling in games can truly shine. Also, because it is a heart-wrenching moment.

    Strifer on
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    JavenJaven Registered User regular
    edited November 2007
    While I really enjoyed Raziel (still doesn't hold a candle to Kain, though, no one can) the whole 'talking sword' thing has kind of been done to death.

    Javen on
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    JavenJaven Registered User regular
    edited November 2007
    SimBen wrote: »
    Blood Omen 1 has the deepest game system in the entire series. It's got lots and lots of weapons, armors, items and magic spells to pick from, you can morph into various forms, etc.

    Plus it's the only game in the series in which you get to visit ALL of Nosgoth (well, except for Meridian). The other ones only take place in a tiny geographical area (Soul Reaver 2, in particular, is entirely contained in the area that spans between the Sarafan Stronghold (just south of the Pillars) and Janos Audron's home (just north of Coorhagen)).

    And it has more unique characters than the rest of the series put together. True, they're not nearly as well-developed as the mainstays, but it's where you'll find the most Nupraptor, Malek and Mortanius per megabyte in the whole series. :P

    This is all true, but damn I wish the game weren't so totally unplayable.

    Javen on
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    templewulftemplewulf The Team Chump USARegistered User regular
    edited November 2007
    Javen wrote: »
    SimBen wrote: »
    Blood Omen 1
    This is all true, but damn I wish the game weren't so totally unplayable.
    The PC version has more bearable load times, but I can't seem to run it on WinXP at all.

    I finished the PS1 game by sheer force of will. I shouldn't be able to pause my game and make a sandwich before the menu comes up. On the upside, it's one of the first games I've ever played (especially PS1) to have such a volume of voice acting.

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    JavenJaven Registered User regular
    edited November 2007
    templewulf wrote: »
    Javen wrote: »
    SimBen wrote: »
    Blood Omen 1
    This is all true, but damn I wish the game weren't so totally unplayable.
    The PC version has more bearable load times, but I can't seem to run it on WinXP at all.

    I finished the PS1 game by sheer force of will. I shouldn't be able to pause my game and make a sandwich before the menu comes up. On the upside, it's one of the first games I've ever played (especially PS1) to have such a volume of voice acting.

    Yeah I tried the PC version a while ago and ran into the same problem.

    BO1 was actually the first ever Playstation game I ever bought, so it's very dear to my heart. Still, the fact that I actually get lag spikes during normal gameplay prevents me from picking it up again. Game excellence aside, My patience is finite.

    Javen on
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    Gnome-InterruptusGnome-Interruptus Registered User regular
    edited November 2007
    Ahh, we must begin the blood sacrifices for a PSP / PS3 / 360 remake of this series

    **Edit: by remake I mean re-release possibly with upgraded graphics and performance.

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    SimBenSimBen Hodor? Hodor Hodor.Registered User regular
    edited November 2007
    Ahh, we must begin the blood sacrifices for a PSP / PS3 / 360 remake of this series

    **Edit: by remake I mean re-release possibly with upgraded graphics and performance.

    The entire series, updated into a single, massive game, in glorious current-gen 3D, all in one consistent engine? Not a single line of dialogue re-recorded, all kept to their original perfection (YES, even taking into account the PS1's shitty bitrate. We've had that lesson with Twin Snakes)? Yes, please, and some more. I'd buy three copies of it.

    For each system it came out on.
    One of the copies for each system would be to sleep with under my pillow.
    The other to have sex with.
    :winky:

    Regarding BO1's loading times: press L2 when you wanna pause. It brings up the area map and it has no loading times. Doesn't solve all the REST of the game's loading times, but oh well. :P

    SimBen on
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    StriferStrifer Registered User regular
    edited November 2007
    Now I remember what I have really hated about the LoK series - the damn camera angles!

    Strifer on
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    riven5riven5 Registered User regular
    edited November 2007
    I just thought I'd throw in that I fucking adore this series.

    I hope they make another one, but at the same time I am afraid that the storyline wouldn't be up to par...but I suppose that is a foolish concern given the brilliance they have already performed.

    Maybe I just want to hear them again, their voices...
    Kain and Raziel verbally sparring at the end of Soul Reaver may have been my favorite sequence in any video game I've ever played.

    riven5 on
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    SithDrummerSithDrummer Registered User regular
    edited November 2007
    Two of my favorite parts involve significant deaths:

    Soul Reaver 2 ending
    Raziel stabbing his former self to avenge Janos' death. I was reveling in my revenge - "I renounce you."

    Defiance ending
    Moebius getting "killed" by Kain in the real world, and thinking nothing of it because the Elder God will return his ethereal soul to his body, as always happens. Instead, Raziel, the soul reaver, is waiting right behind him and finally ends the bastard.


    My last favorite part is probably Kain's reaction when he successfully manages to "land the coin on its side" in SR2. So proud, so accomplished, and then he realizes what he's just done. He avoided the frying pan and the fire to instead jump into a volcano.

    SithDrummer on
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    ClevingerClevinger Registered User regular
    edited November 2007
    Strifer wrote: »
    Now I remember what I have really hated about the LoK series - the damn camera angles!

    I just started replaying Soul Reaver a few nights ago, and yesterday it made me so fucking nauseous with constantly needing to (and slowly, mind you) spin the camera to see what's going on.

    gahh

    Other than that, I'm loving it.

    Clevinger on
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    Golden YakGolden Yak Burnished Bovine The sunny beaches of CanadaRegistered User regular
    edited November 2007
    I think what really stands out about the original Soul Reaver is the combat mechanic of having to dispatch your vampiric enemies in some way other than just wailing on them. While the combat itself isn't as smooth as other games (except maybe BO2's combat :p), having to find a creative way to dispose of vampire enemies, like a beam of sunlight, pool of water, bonfire, or a something to impale them on, makes fights a bit more challenging and interesting.

    Since you don't really fight vampires in later games (other than the vampire generals in BO2), this mechanic never came up again, which was unfortunate since it was a nice touch to gameplay.

    Golden Yak on
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    CoVillainCoVillain Registered User regular
    edited November 2007
    Props to the OP for bringing up one of the best and under rated video games series. What made the game stand out for me more then any other is that there really is no good or evil, just a lot of greys. This really fleshes out the characters. A newer game that follows along the same great story telling as the LoK series seems to be the new Witcher game. Games like there are just too few and far between.

    Finally, in the words of Kain,

    "VAE VICTIS!"

    CoVillain on
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    SimBenSimBen Hodor? Hodor Hodor.Registered User regular
    edited November 2007
    One way they could continue the series would be to set it in the far future... hundreds of years after the SR1 era. The vampires have rebuilt Nosgoth to a proud, vampire-ruled land... you could make a new story from that.

    Say, a young vampire loses his memory somehow and is adopted by humans. Becomes convinced vampires are bad and must be eliminated. Time travel comes into play at some point. I dunno, that'd be a good way to "reboot" the franchise as it were (or just give it a second life).

    SimBen on
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    DracomicronDracomicron Registered User regular
    edited November 2007
    I dearly loved the original game, and all the games after it have been one level of disappointment or another... compared to the original Blood Omen. They're fine games, it's just that Blood Omen, being top-down and more RPG-like, was more my style.

    I also despised the fact that the original PS1 Soul Reaver's ending...
    was a big fade to black and then "To be continued," when what they should've said was "To be continued after you buy a PS2, sucker!"

    Dracomicron on
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    DaedalusDaedalus Registered User regular
    edited November 2007
    I dearly loved the original game, and all the games after it have been one level of disappointment or another... compared to the original Blood Omen. They're fine games, it's just that Blood Omen, being top-down and more RPG-like, was more my style.

    I also despised the fact that the original PS1 Soul Reaver's ending...
    was a big fade to black and then "To be continued," when what they should've said was "To be continued after you buy a PS2, sucker!"
    Imagine owning it on the Dreamcast. Ouch.

    Daedalus on
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    SimBenSimBen Hodor? Hodor Hodor.Registered User regular
    edited November 2007
    I dearly loved the original game, and all the games after it have been one level of disappointment or another... compared to the original Blood Omen. They're fine games, it's just that Blood Omen, being top-down and more RPG-like, was more my style.

    I also despised the fact that the original PS1 Soul Reaver's ending...
    was a big fade to black and then "To be continued," when what they should've said was "To be continued after you buy a PS2, sucker!"
    That's entirely due to publisher pressure... by the time SR1 came out, the PS2 was just about to be unleashed upon the world, and Eidos wanted to get SR out while the PS1 still had life left in it. So CD had to cut out basically the whole last part of the game, stick the time-traveling in there as a convenient "to be continued", and didn't know where they were gonna go from there. It's all for the better anyway, considering how awesomely the story evolved. :P

    Basically, Raziel was originally gonna kill Kain, then go back to the Pillars, absorb Ariel, then go back to the Silent Cathedral and ring the bells, killing every vampire in Nosgoth including himself. Also, there was a fight with Turel originally planned to have been in the game, but which was cut due to tight deadlines.

    SimBen on
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    ClevingerClevinger Registered User regular
    edited November 2007
    thank god for piece of shit publishers

    Clevinger on
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    SteevLSteevL What can I do for you? Registered User regular
    edited November 2007
    Defiance ending
    Moebius getting "killed" by Kain in the real world, and thinking nothing of it because the Elder God will return his ethereal soul to his body, as always happens. Instead, Raziel, the soul reaver, is waiting right behind him and finally ends the bastard.
    The look on Raziel's face (or rather, in his eyes) as he's standing behind Moebius is priceless. It's just a great shot overall.

    SteevL on
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