Options

[Vae Victus] Let's talk about Legacy of Kain (Spoilers in OP, read at your own risk)

124»

Posts

  • Options
    StriferStrifer Registered User regular
    edited November 2007
    There was a Let's Play thread about the LoK series, excluding BO2, so if anyone's curious - here it is. It is still better to play the games for pacing and stuff.

    Strifer on
    MikoSuikaLine.jpg
  • Options
    SnorkSnork word Jamaica Plain, MARegistered User regular
    edited November 2007
    Clevinger wrote: »
    thank god for piece of shit publishers
    thank god indeed

    Snork on
  • Options
    MasoniteMasonite Registered User regular
    edited November 2007
    Golden Yak wrote: »
    I think what really stands out about the original Soul Reaver is the combat mechanic of having to dispatch your vampiric enemies in some way other than just wailing on them. While the combat itself isn't as smooth as other games (except maybe BO2's combat :p), having to find a creative way to dispose of vampire enemies, like a beam of sunlight, pool of water, bonfire, or a something to impale them on, makes fights a bit more challenging and interesting.

    Since you don't really fight vampires in later games (other than the vampire generals in BO2), this mechanic never came up again, which was unfortunate since it was a nice touch to gameplay.

    There's nothing quite like vampire boxing followed by twisted screams of agony as their souls are ripped from their bodies. Good times.

    Also, I don't know if this has been mentioned yet, but it's possible to devour the souls of humans without killing them. Of course, doing so means all the vampire hunters will attack you from then on (save for the ones in the Silenced Cathedral, who attack you regardless). I can't remember the specific reason for it, but I know it was intentional.

    Masonite on
  • Options
    SimBenSimBen Hodor? Hodor Hodor.Registered User regular
    edited November 2007
    Masonite wrote: »
    Golden Yak wrote: »
    I think what really stands out about the original Soul Reaver is the combat mechanic of having to dispatch your vampiric enemies in some way other than just wailing on them. While the combat itself isn't as smooth as other games (except maybe BO2's combat :p), having to find a creative way to dispose of vampire enemies, like a beam of sunlight, pool of water, bonfire, or a something to impale them on, makes fights a bit more challenging and interesting.

    Since you don't really fight vampires in later games (other than the vampire generals in BO2), this mechanic never came up again, which was unfortunate since it was a nice touch to gameplay.

    There's nothing quite like vampire boxing followed by twisted screams of agony as their souls are ripped from their bodies. Good times.

    Also, I don't know if this has been mentioned yet, but it's possible to devour the souls of humans without killing them. Of course, doing so means all the vampire hunters will attack you from then on (save for the ones in the Silenced Cathedral, who attack you regardless). I can't remember the specific reason for it, but I know it was intentional.

    Vampire hunters WILL always attack you. So will vampire worshippers in the Cathedral.

    If you can get to the human town without having killed a single human all game though, the civilians there will bow to you, and the guards won't attack you.

    SimBen on
    sig.gif
  • Options
    MasoniteMasonite Registered User regular
    edited November 2007
    SimBen wrote: »
    Masonite wrote: »
    Golden Yak wrote: »
    I think what really stands out about the original Soul Reaver is the combat mechanic of having to dispatch your vampiric enemies in some way other than just wailing on them. While the combat itself isn't as smooth as other games (except maybe BO2's combat :p), having to find a creative way to dispose of vampire enemies, like a beam of sunlight, pool of water, bonfire, or a something to impale them on, makes fights a bit more challenging and interesting.

    Since you don't really fight vampires in later games (other than the vampire generals in BO2), this mechanic never came up again, which was unfortunate since it was a nice touch to gameplay.

    There's nothing quite like vampire boxing followed by twisted screams of agony as their souls are ripped from their bodies. Good times.

    Also, I don't know if this has been mentioned yet, but it's possible to devour the souls of humans without killing them. Of course, doing so means all the vampire hunters will attack you from then on (save for the ones in the Silenced Cathedral, who attack you regardless). I can't remember the specific reason for it, but I know it was intentional.

    Vampire hunters WILL always attack you. So will vampire worshippers in the Cathedral.

    If you can get to the human town without having killed a single human all game though, the civilians there will bow to you, and the guards won't attack you.

    We may just be arguing semantics, but I'm pretty sure the only humans who attack you on sight are the ones you encounter within the Silenced Cathedral. The vampire hunters you come across within Melchiah's clan territory, for instance, won't attack you (unless, as I said, you've killed a human before).

    Masonite on
  • Options
    SimBenSimBen Hodor? Hodor Hodor.Registered User regular
    edited November 2007
    Masonite wrote: »
    SimBen wrote: »
    Masonite wrote: »
    Golden Yak wrote: »
    I think what really stands out about the original Soul Reaver is the combat mechanic of having to dispatch your vampiric enemies in some way other than just wailing on them. While the combat itself isn't as smooth as other games (except maybe BO2's combat :p), having to find a creative way to dispose of vampire enemies, like a beam of sunlight, pool of water, bonfire, or a something to impale them on, makes fights a bit more challenging and interesting.

    Since you don't really fight vampires in later games (other than the vampire generals in BO2), this mechanic never came up again, which was unfortunate since it was a nice touch to gameplay.

    There's nothing quite like vampire boxing followed by twisted screams of agony as their souls are ripped from their bodies. Good times.

    Also, I don't know if this has been mentioned yet, but it's possible to devour the souls of humans without killing them. Of course, doing so means all the vampire hunters will attack you from then on (save for the ones in the Silenced Cathedral, who attack you regardless). I can't remember the specific reason for it, but I know it was intentional.

    Vampire hunters WILL always attack you. So will vampire worshippers in the Cathedral.

    If you can get to the human town without having killed a single human all game though, the civilians there will bow to you, and the guards won't attack you.

    We may just be arguing semantics, but I'm pretty sure the only humans who attack you on sight are the ones you encounter within the Silenced Cathedral. The vampire hunters you come across within Melchiah's clan territory, for instance, won't attack you (unless, as I said, you've killed a human before).

    I'm almost completely certain that the vampire hunters in Melchiah's domain will attack you on sight no matter what.

    SimBen on
    sig.gif
  • Options
    SteevLSteevL What can I do for you? Registered User regular
    edited November 2007
    From what I remember, a vampire hunter will attack you until he sees you kill a vampire, then he'll go into the "worship" pose.

    SteevL on
  • Options
    Golden YakGolden Yak Burnished Bovine The sunny beaches of CanadaRegistered User regular
    edited November 2007
    That's right, at which point you can drain a little bit of energy from them. Take too much and they'll die, causing civilians to run and guards to attack you.

    Stuff like the human settlement and other out of the way places were another thing I liked about SR. Collecting glyphs and getting upgrades weren't required like in the other games, where you needed every Reaver upgrade to advance. A lot of the stuff in SR is hold over from the content that was cut, and it made for some nice, out of the way nooks and crannies to explore.

    Plenty was cut from SR2 as well - there was going to be a Dimension Reaver that let you teleport from place to place by firing Dimension Projectiles at certain glyphs while standing on teleportational tiles. There were a couple other upgrades for the reaver cut out as well - all mentioned early on in development. A shame to see some of them go - a lot of exploration is cut out of SR2 and Defiance, where it's all pretty linear.

    Golden Yak on
    H9f4bVe.png
  • Options
    SimBenSimBen Hodor? Hodor Hodor.Registered User regular
    edited November 2007
    SteevL wrote: »
    From what I remember, a vampire hunter will attack you until he sees you kill a vampire, then he'll go into the "worship" pose.

    Oh right! Their logic is something like "Crap, a vampire, better kill him! Wait, he's a good vampire. Let's not."

    At any rate, it's a really cool mechanic. The only thing is that it's almost impossible to make it through the Silent Cathedral without killing a human, which will make the hunters in the town later on attack you on sight no matter what.

    Make it there (about 70% of the way through the game) by sparing every single human though, and they all worship you. :D

    SimBen on
    sig.gif
  • Options
    templewulftemplewulf The Team Chump USARegistered User regular
    edited November 2007
    It's funny, but I think that the story of the games gets better with each version, but the gameplay gets worse. SR2's puzzles were mostly pretty contrived; especially compared to some of the more innovative stuff in SR1.

    I absolutely agree about the bit of creative ways to kill vampires. Just wailing on people in the other games felt like kind of a let down. The elemental reavers also made me ;-)

    But holy fuck, do I love the writing and acting in SR2.

    templewulf on
    Twitch.tv/FiercePunchStudios | PSN | Steam | Discord | SFV CFN: templewulf
  • Options
    SilpheedSilpheed Registered User regular
    edited November 2007
    SimBen wrote: »
    SteevL wrote: »
    From what I remember, a vampire hunter will attack you until he sees you kill a vampire, then he'll go into the "worship" pose.

    Oh right! Their logic is something like "Crap, a vampire, better kill him! Wait, he's a good vampire. Let's not."

    At any rate, it's a really cool mechanic. The only thing is that it's almost impossible to make it through the Silent Cathedral without killing a human, which will make the hunters in the town later on attack you on sight no matter what.

    Make it there (about 70% of the way through the game) by sparing every single human though, and they all worship you. :D
    To be honest, Raziel doesn't exactly look like a Vampire by the time he's walking the corporeal world again. All the hunters see is a monster that kills the Vampires that have used them as cattle for thousands of years and doesn't seem hostile to them so I can understand them being a bit worshipful.

    Silpheed on
  • Options
    NorayNoray Registered User regular
    edited November 2007
    templewulf wrote: »
    It's funny, but I think that the story of the games gets better with each version, but the gameplay gets worse. SR2's puzzles were mostly pretty contrived; especially compared to some of the more innovative stuff in SR1.

    I absolutely agree about the bit of creative ways to kill vampires. Just wailing on people in the other games felt like kind of a let down. The elemental reavers also made me ;-)

    But holy fuck, do I love the writing and acting in SR2.

    I liked SR2's puzzles. Defiance's felt completely tacked on to me though... Raziel already gets the light and dark reavers in SR2, then he loses them, and conveniently there are Light and Dark forges just outside of the crypt where he ressurrects... wow. And all the emblem keys they added all over the place... ugh.

    Noray on
  • Options
    MasoniteMasonite Registered User regular
    edited November 2007
    SimBen wrote: »
    SteevL wrote: »
    From what I remember, a vampire hunter will attack you until he sees you kill a vampire, then he'll go into the "worship" pose.

    Oh right! Their logic is something like "Crap, a vampire, better kill him! Wait, he's a good vampire. Let's not."

    At any rate, it's a really cool mechanic. The only thing is that it's almost impossible to make it through the Silent Cathedral without killing a human, which will make the hunters in the town later on attack you on sight no matter what.

    Make it there (about 70% of the way through the game) by sparing every single human though, and they all worship you. :D

    I don't know if I believe that. To give another example, there are two vampire hunters right outside the warp gate outside the Silenced Cathedral. Considering the Cathedral is the next area you visit after fighting Kain, that rules out it being about 70% of the way through the game. Also, IIRC, there are no vampires about in that area (Zephon's minions are confined to inside the Cathedral -- this I remember because I hated fighting them).

    And I'm pretty sure the vampire worshipers are exempt from the whole 'kill one human and they'll all attack you. Anyway, I suppose the only way to resolve this is for someone to load the game up and see for themselves.

    Masonite on
  • Options
    Brane DedBrane Ded Registered User new member
    edited November 2007
    Masonite wrote: »
    SimBen wrote: »
    SteevL wrote: »
    From what I remember, a vampire hunter will attack you until he sees you kill a vampire, then he'll go into the "worship" pose.

    Oh right! Their logic is something like "Crap, a vampire, better kill him! Wait, he's a good vampire. Let's not."

    At any rate, it's a really cool mechanic. The only thing is that it's almost impossible to make it through the Silent Cathedral without killing a human, which will make the hunters in the town later on attack you on sight no matter what.

    Make it there (about 70% of the way through the game) by sparing every single human though, and they all worship you. :D

    I don't know if I believe that. To give another example, there are two vampire hunters right outside the warp gate outside the Silenced Cathedral. Considering the Cathedral is the next area you visit after fighting Kain, that rules out it being about 70% of the way through the game. Also, IIRC, there are no vampires about in that area (Zephon's minions are confined to inside the Cathedral -- this I remember because I hated fighting them).

    And I'm pretty sure the vampire worshipers are exempt from the whole 'kill one human and they'll all attack you. Anyway, I suppose the only way to resolve this is for someone to load the game up and see for themselves.

    Agreed. I remember clearly that all I ever had to do to get the humans to worship me was simply skip past the first one I saw. He'll shoot at you, it doesn't really hurt, ignore him, move on. They praise you after that.

    Brane Ded on
  • Options
    SimBenSimBen Hodor? Hodor Hodor.Registered User regular
    edited November 2007
    Masonite wrote: »
    SimBen wrote: »
    SteevL wrote: »
    From what I remember, a vampire hunter will attack you until he sees you kill a vampire, then he'll go into the "worship" pose.

    Oh right! Their logic is something like "Crap, a vampire, better kill him! Wait, he's a good vampire. Let's not."

    At any rate, it's a really cool mechanic. The only thing is that it's almost impossible to make it through the Silent Cathedral without killing a human, which will make the hunters in the town later on attack you on sight no matter what.

    Make it there (about 70% of the way through the game) by sparing every single human though, and they all worship you. :D

    I don't know if I believe that. To give another example, there are two vampire hunters right outside the warp gate outside the Silenced Cathedral. Considering the Cathedral is the next area you visit after fighting Kain, that rules out it being about 70% of the way through the game. Also, IIRC, there are no vampires about in that area (Zephon's minions are confined to inside the Cathedral -- this I remember because I hated fighting them).

    And I'm pretty sure the vampire worshipers are exempt from the whole 'kill one human and they'll all attack you. Anyway, I suppose the only way to resolve this is for someone to load the game up and see for themselves.

    No, I meant the human town is about 70% of the way through the game. The Silent Cathedral is the second major area you visit.

    SimBen on
    sig.gif
  • Options
    MasoniteMasonite Registered User regular
    edited November 2007
    SimBen wrote: »
    Masonite wrote: »
    SimBen wrote: »
    SteevL wrote: »
    From what I remember, a vampire hunter will attack you until he sees you kill a vampire, then he'll go into the "worship" pose.

    Oh right! Their logic is something like "Crap, a vampire, better kill him! Wait, he's a good vampire. Let's not."

    At any rate, it's a really cool mechanic. The only thing is that it's almost impossible to make it through the Silent Cathedral without killing a human, which will make the hunters in the town later on attack you on sight no matter what.

    Make it there (about 70% of the way through the game) by sparing every single human though, and they all worship you. :D

    I don't know if I believe that. To give another example, there are two vampire hunters right outside the warp gate outside the Silenced Cathedral. Considering the Cathedral is the next area you visit after fighting Kain, that rules out it being about 70% of the way through the game. Also, IIRC, there are no vampires about in that area (Zephon's minions are confined to inside the Cathedral -- this I remember because I hated fighting them).

    And I'm pretty sure the vampire worshipers are exempt from the whole 'kill one human and they'll all attack you. Anyway, I suppose the only way to resolve this is for someone to load the game up and see for themselves.

    No, I meant the human town is about 70% of the way through the game. The Silent Cathedral is the second major area you visit.

    OK, yes, we can agree on that, but that's not the point I was trying to make.

    Masonite on
  • Options
    SimBenSimBen Hodor? Hodor Hodor.Registered User regular
    edited November 2007
    Almost through Blood Omen 1... waiting for the full moon for the last secret (really, waiting for the full moon has got to be the worst part of this game. I think there's more time on this file of waiting than of actual playing the game. :()

    It's funny how slow-paced this game is all the way up to Vorador, then it just speeds up and it feels like the rest happens in fast-motion. That's mostly because you find most spells/equipment/side-areas before then.

    SimBen on
    sig.gif
  • Options
    Golden YakGolden Yak Burnished Bovine The sunny beaches of CanadaRegistered User regular
    edited November 2007
    Apparently, there are a couple of references to Legacy of Kain in Tomb Raider: Legends available through unlockable rewards (including the Soul Reaver itself as a weapon for Lara). So apparently the series hasn't been forgotten by CD. Here's hoping that they take another crack at it when they're finished with all the Tomb Raider stuff.

    Golden Yak on
    H9f4bVe.png
  • Options
    JavenJaven Registered User regular
    edited November 2007
    Don't know if I'd want the series continued without it's greatest architect behind the wheel, though.

    Javen on
Sign In or Register to comment.