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What will be the next "big" console video game feature after user created content?

Bang Bang Miss AmericaBang Bang Miss America Registered User regular
edited November 2007 in Games and Technology
After practically every console game features user created content in some form or another, what will be next?

Cross-game play? (using Micro machines, race around a kitchen some-one made in Sims, using Cooking Mama create food for some troops in Metroid Prime etc.)

SPECULATE.

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    BlueBlueBlueBlue Registered User regular
    edited November 2007
    Is user-created content really such a "big" console feature? Maybe I just haven't noticed because I don't have an xbox.

    BlueBlue on
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    Dareth RamDareth Ram regular
    edited November 2007
    BlueBlue wrote: »
    Is user-created content really such a "big" console feature? Maybe I just haven't noticed because I don't have an xbox.

    It's not. It will always be limited, especially because most developers will want to be able to charge for it.

    Dareth Ram on
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    BlueDestinyBlueDestiny Registered User regular
    edited November 2007
    Perhaps using "smart" rooms and holography to create game environments from household areas. Think about it, we could have Call of Duty: Home Front.


    Those lego bastards have our intel! Storm the fortress! READY THE PAPER AIRPLANES!

    BlueDestiny on
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    zilozilo Registered User regular
    edited November 2007
    Is user-created content really all that cool? For every decent mod or map I've played I've booted up fifty crap ones. Sifting the wheat from the chaff is going to be even more daunting if the bar to entry gets any lower.

    I mean, you've got Nintendo's stage-of-the-day thing for SSB:B but aside from having a central repository responsible for picking the good stuff out of the sea of crap I don't see any way user-created content would be any fun.

    zilo on
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    ÆthelredÆthelred Registered User regular
    edited November 2007
    A central repository is the way to go. Little Big Planet's system looks great - you can choose by rating, top downloaded etc.

    Æthelred on
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    Dareth RamDareth Ram regular
    edited November 2007
    zilo wrote: »
    Is user-created content really all that cool? For every decent mod or map I've played I've booted up fifty crap ones. Sifting the wheat from the chaff is going to be even more daunting if the bar to entry gets any lower.

    I mean, you've got Nintendo's stage-of-the-day thing for SSB:B but aside from having a central repository responsible for picking the good stuff out of the sea of crap I don't see any way user-created content would be any fun.

    Generally the good stuff comes from people who actually want to be game developers. Anything else is crap.

    Dareth Ram on
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    zilozilo Registered User regular
    edited November 2007
    See, ratings systems and stuff only work when huge numbers of people use them. Every good online rating system I've seen, from Youtube to Gamespot, is full of good stuff with an 85-90% rating and hundreds of thousands of hits surrounded by total junk with one 100% rating. It's -still- too difficult to find anything worthwhile.

    I'm not saying ratings systems are bad (they're certainly better than the alternative), but one would think there would be a better way to find good content by now. We've got machines that can cook hot dogs in seconds and software that knows what movies I should rent from Netflix but I still have to sift through a thousand clips of some guy getting hit in the balls with a golf club on YouTube before I find Eric Clapton Shreds on there.

    zilo on
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    PeewiPeewi Registered User regular
    edited November 2007
    I wouldn't call user created content a console feature, but a game feature. And I wouldn't say that it's big in console games yet. You might say that it's big in games that have it, but how many console games have?

    Peewi on
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    TiemlerTiemler Registered User regular
    edited November 2007
    Perhaps using "smart" rooms and holography to create game environments from household areas. Think about it, we could have Call of Duty: Home Front.

    Isn't Home Front already in production? I hear you have to tend to the farm and work a night shift at the B-17 factory, all the while conserving your ration cards. Riveting.

    Tiemler on
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    KVWKVW Registered User regular
    edited November 2007
    I'm still waiting on cross-platform play. Like playing against someone in Guitar Hero 3, me with a 360 version, him with a Wii version and so on. Same deal with hooking up wiht the PC in everything except FPS since console users would just get ruined in that.

    KVW on
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    BlueDestinyBlueDestiny Registered User regular
    edited November 2007
    Tiemler wrote: »
    Perhaps using "smart" rooms and holography to create game environments from household areas. Think about it, we could have Call of Duty: Home Front.

    Isn't Home Front already in production? I hear you have to tend to the farm and work a night shift at the B-17 factory, all the while conserving your ration cards. Riveting.

    Pun intended?

    I really would like some kind of 3-D game that you can just flick a switch and grab a controller to turn your room into WW3 or something though.

    BlueDestiny on
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    ZekZek Registered User regular
    edited November 2007
    I think you meant to ask "What will be the next decade-old PC gaming staple that consoles catch on to?" How about dedicated servers?

    Personally I don't think user-created content is a big deal, most users have no talent for creating content and I'd much rather leave it to the professionals. Once in a while a map comes out that is really high quality and it's nice to be able to add it to the map rotation, but I can't stand servers that run exclusively on custom maps.

    Zek on
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    XagarathXagarath Registered User regular
    edited November 2007
    Zek wrote: »
    I think you meant to ask "What will be the next decade-old PC gaming staple that consoles catch on to?"
    Really, not enough lime in the goddamn world.
    You think user-crated content and HD gaming are new?

    Xagarath on
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    PeewiPeewi Registered User regular
    edited November 2007
    Zek wrote: »
    I think you meant to ask "What will be the next decade-old PC gaming staple that consoles catch on to?" How about dedicated servers?

    But there's already console games with dedicated servers and obviously it's a console feature as soon as three games has it.;-)

    Peewi on
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    UnbreakableVowUnbreakableVow Registered User regular
    edited November 2007
    Xagarath wrote: »
    You think user-crated content and HD gaming are new?

    Seeing as this thread is about CONSOLES and NOT PCs, yes, user-created content and HD gaming are new.

    UnbreakableVow on
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    EclecticGrooveEclecticGroove Registered User regular
    edited November 2007
    Zek wrote: »
    I think you meant to ask "What will be the next decade-old PC gaming staple that consoles catch on to?" How about dedicated servers?

    Personally I don't think user-created content is a big deal, most users have no talent for creating content and I'd much rather leave it to the professionals. Once in a while a map comes out that is really high quality and it's nice to be able to add it to the map rotation, but I can't stand servers that run exclusively on custom maps.

    Dedicated servers still happen on the Consoles, just not as common of course.
    Likewise cross platform play exists on consoles in some games.

    User Created content is awesome in many cases, but the problems that plague it are the reasons why it's so rare on consoles.

    For every awesome and well thought game mod, you have 300 mods created by some horny teenager to add in cursing, show nudity, make some LOTR/Matrix/DBZ/FF mod, etc. That's not even getting into mods that don't work with other mods, or break parts of the game, etc.

    Getting all that to work on a console means that every single piece that's added needs to have some sort of an approval process where it's checked out to conform to any number of criteria.

    On a PC, you can just host it wherever and tell people to back up the important stuff first as they will not be held responsible if it nukes the game for them.


    *edit*
    As far as one of the "next" thing for consoles? I'd imagine someone is going to wind up making an MMO for consoles that actually sells well. Everyone else is cashing in on it, so consoles will probably not be long behind it.

    EclecticGroove on
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    deadonthestreetdeadonthestreet Registered User regular
    edited November 2007
    Little Big Planet and Smash Bros. Brawl both have level editors.

    deadonthestreet on
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    Burning OrganBurning Organ Registered User regular
    edited November 2007
    Maybe upgradeable graphics accelerators and memory expansions!
    Anyway, does any game released support good user created content yet? (I mean on the consoles, god knows I've been playing custom maps since my brothers introduced me to the duke3d level editor)

    Burning Organ on
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    switzky21switzky21 __BANNED USERS regular
    edited November 2007
    Decent AI?

    Gasp! MAYBE EVEN CONSISTENTLY GOOD WRITING?!

    switzky21 on
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    BlueDestinyBlueDestiny Registered User regular
    edited November 2007
    switzky21 wrote: »
    Decent AI?

    Gasp! MAYBE EVEN CONSISTENTLY GOOD WRITING?!

    You're a maniac.

    A MANIAC, I SAY!

    BlueDestiny on
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    AzioAzio Registered User regular
    edited November 2007
    Cutscenes that you can skip, but are not usually tempted to because they could almost pass as actual entertainment.

    Azio on
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    Local H JayLocal H Jay Registered User regular
    edited November 2007
    Game discs that work in all consoles.
    Totally implausible, but I can dream...

    Local H Jay on
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    switzky21switzky21 __BANNED USERS regular
    edited November 2007
    switzky21 wrote: »
    Decent AI?

    Gasp! MAYBE EVEN CONSISTENTLY GOOD WRITING?!

    You're a maniac.

    A MANIAC, I SAY!

    MUAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

    They said that character development was a dream...

    I say that they're the maniacs!

    switzky21 on
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    UncleSporkyUncleSporky Registered User regular
    edited November 2007
    I really would like some kind of 3-D game that you can just flick a switch and grab a controller to turn your room into WW3 or something though.

    augmented reality could be big, if someone would hurry up and release a good version of it to the masses

    similar to Eye of Judgement, only more dynamic

    Gizmondo game where you can build catapults on your desk

    a really cool AR demo

    or just look through some of this

    UncleSporky on
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    UnbreakableVowUnbreakableVow Registered User regular
    edited November 2007
    By the way, I want Halo 3-style replay in just about everything, ever. There's already been a few times I've wished it's been in GH3.

    UnbreakableVow on
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    syrionsyrion Registered User regular
    edited November 2007
    User-created content has been awesome on PCs... if you play the games where user-created content isn't total balls. The Quake series has always had an excellent mapping community, and had a really strong modding community in Quake/Quake 2. Half-Life had a mediocre mapping community but an absolutely excellent modding community.

    Team Fortress? Originally user-created content, a mod for Quake.
    Counter-Strike? Originally user-created content, a mod for Half-Life.
    Day of Defeat? Originally user-created content, a mod for Half-Life.

    Hell--

    Dedicated servers as we know them today? Originally user-created content, a mod for Quake. (QuakeWorld.)

    The disdain for user-made maps and so on is a new thing, and I'm not sure where it comes from. Sometimes maps from users will be "simpler," sure, but they're often more competently made than professional efforts simply because they're not under deadlines... and the simplicity sometimes reflects the gameplay of the mod or game better than the corporate maps.

    Look at Team Fortress Classic. Several of its VALVe maps were horrible--push, ravelin, rock2, casbah--but a good stock of user-made maps allowed it to have a long-lasting and vibrant community, far beyond (for example) Unreal Tournament mods.

    For the record, UT is absolutely terrible for mapping. Its map format is quirky, and it has some bugs where, for example, your map file will suddenly inflate to dozens of megabytes for no reason. This isn't acceptable behavior for most [good] mappers--that's why it's never been as popular a mapping platform as Quake 3.

    Another funny example is Warcraft 3 and the Tower Defense maps. They basically created an entirely new gametype.

    But yeah, users are talentless, we should just buy new games every month instead of playing user-created content. ;)

    syrion on
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    HadjiQuestHadjiQuest Registered User regular
    edited November 2007
    Teledildonics.

    HadjiQuest on
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    MMANMMAN Registered User regular
    edited November 2007
    syrion wrote: »
    For the record, UT is absolutely terrible for mapping. Its map format is quirky, and it has some bugs where, for example, your map file will suddenly inflate to dozens of megabytes for no reason. This isn't acceptable behavior for most [good] mappers--that's why it's never been as popular a mapping platform as Quake 3.

    Considering you referenced Q3 I'm guessing you're talking about UT1 (as comparing with UT2003/4, which are next-gen and therefore on another level technically wouldn't make much sense), in which case, what?

    Unreal had/has arguably the most intuitive and beginner friendly editor/style (for a commercial FPS engine) available; at least for me, when I had just started subtracting/adding was a far easier concept to grasp than building each wall separately, and its camera system seems way more intuitive than the Worldcraft/Hammer one (although from what I've heard Quake 3 had multiple editors, so someone may have implemented something similar to the Unreal system). In all the years I've used the UT editor I've never heard of any bugs of that sort other than stuff that comes from terrible design practices (I have heard of something a bit like that in UT2003/4, but never in UT).

    MMAN on
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    switzky21switzky21 __BANNED USERS regular
    edited November 2007
    HadjiQuest wrote: »
    Teledildonics.

    YOU STOP THIS RIGHT NOW.

    switzky21 on
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    zilozilo Registered User regular
    edited November 2007
    syrion wrote: »
    The disdain for user-made maps and so on is a new thing, and I'm not sure where it comes from. Sometimes maps from users will be "simpler," sure, but they're often more competently made than professional efforts simply because they're not under deadlines... and the simplicity sometimes reflects the gameplay of the mod or game better than the corporate maps.

    I don't think anyone is saying that armchair game designers can't create good content. For every worthwhile mod or map, though, there are dozens (or even hundreds) of awful, awful mods and maps. The signal to noise ratio on user-created content is absurdly low, much moreso than the game industry as a whole.

    It was fine and dandy in the 90s when so few people were making mods and maps that you could be reasonably assured that, say, one in ten that you looked at would be at least interesting. That is not the case anymore. What we need is a reliable way to get at the good stuff; modern methods of rating systems and whatnot are not an adequate solution, and will fall even farther into uselessness as more and more people start creating content.

    zilo on
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    BamaBama Registered User regular
    edited November 2007
    I've got it! How about if you publish a map (beyond a small testing community) and it sucks balls, people come to your house and kill you!

    Bama on
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    BlunderbussBlunderbuss Registered User regular
    edited November 2007
    1) H3 style uploadable replays and screenshots in every game .. as another poster said.

    As an evolution of that:
    * Characters lip synced to mic input mic.
    * Recordable character animation.. e.g you have a "forge" like mode where you can pose player characters limbs and facial expressions into sets of short animations that can be hot-keyed and replayed back in game.. so say (for example) a tap then hold of 'select' puts you in "pose" mode and all your buttons now access hot keyed animations.

    This would really allow players to put them selves into games to goof around between action or record thier own cutscenes where they become thier characters.

    Blunderbuss on
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    syrionsyrion Registered User regular
    edited November 2007
    (Sorry for the bad formatting, stupid things are happening.)

    Unreal had/has arguably the most intuitive and beginner friendly editor/style (for a commercial FPS engine) available; at least for me, when I had just started subtracting/adding was a far easier concept to grasp than building each wall separately, and its camera system seems way more intuitive than the Worldcraft/Hammer one (although from what I've heard Quake 3 had multiple editors, so someone may have implemented something similar to the Unreal system). In all the years I've used the UT editor I've never heard of any bugs of that sort other than stuff that comes from terrible design practices (I have heard of something a bit like that in UT2003/4, but never in UT).
    Actually, I'm talking about UT2k3/4. I never used UT's mapping software. "Next-gen" is irrelevant when it comes to mapping--the only thing that changes is the detail allowed and the reliance on models (as in Source).

    UT's subtractive design lends itself to inefficiencies, though. It's akin to the bad practice in Quake-derived games of surrounding all of your rooms with boxes--it makes it impossible to calculate visibility as efficiently as Quake-derived games can. This, I suspect, is why many Unreal-engine games have uneven frames in different parts of the map--they have major brushwork problems due to the automatic leakproof boxes keeping faces which have been improperly sealed off from being culled. Deus Ex may be the most obvious example, but it's a bit aged. Play some of the UT2k3 maps, though, and you can see what I mean; I forget the name, but there's this green techno-ish looking map that got played a ton on DM servers back in the day that had absolutely atrocious FPS in the main atrium, far beyond what you'd expect from the geometry.

    RE: Signal to Noise

    Map review sites are the traditional path to usefulness. TFC had three or four, Quake 3 had a dozen (and still has at least one)--hell, Quake still has one. They require a bit of effort and aren't automated, but they're very useful.

    syrion on
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    zilozilo Registered User regular
    edited November 2007
    Map review sites were exactly what I was talking about as being not useful.

    zilo on
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    syndalissyndalis Getting Classy On the WallRegistered User, Loves Apple Products regular
    edited November 2007
    User Created Content + a Digg style interface would suffice. Like how skate handles replays.


    If people "dig" a map, they say so in the after match lobby. Slowly the good content filters its way to the top.

    syndalis on
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    zilozilo Registered User regular
    edited November 2007
    That'd surely be a step in the right direction, and a huge leap beyond expecting people to go to a website to provide feedback. A quick yes or no when the map ends, then on to the next one. Not bad.

    zilo on
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    MMANMMAN Registered User regular
    edited November 2007
    syrion wrote: »
    Actually, I'm talking about UT2k3/4. I never used UT's mapping software. "Next-gen" is irrelevant when it comes to mapping--the only thing that changes is the detail allowed and the reliance on models (as in Source).

    UT's subtractive design lends itself to inefficiencies, though. It's akin to the bad practice in Quake-derived games of surrounding all of your rooms with boxes--it makes it impossible to calculate visibility as efficiently as Quake-derived games can. This, I suspect, is why many Unreal-engine games have uneven frames in different parts of the map--they have major brushwork problems due to the automatic leakproof boxes keeping faces which have been improperly sealed off from being culled. Deus Ex may be the most obvious example, but it's a bit aged. Play some of the UT2k3 maps, though, and you can see what I mean; I forget the name, but there's this green techno-ish looking map that got played a ton on DM servers back in the day that had absolutely atrocious FPS in the main atrium, far beyond what you'd expect from the geometry.

    I think you're underestimating the difference in the UT-UT2003/4 transition; the dynamics totally change, since UT2003/4 have such a reliance on meshes and therefore pretty much REQUIRE knowledge of a compatible 3D modeling program. That's different to UT where almost anything can be done with brushes (although, of course, 3D modeling can make certain things much easier), and presumably, that's the case with Quake 3 as well. You need a whole extra level of knowledge in the newer engine beyond just learning the editor to make something that stands out.

    Subtractive geometry has both strengths and weaknesses over additive based geometry. The only bad FPS moments I've had in UT2004 (I don't play UT2003, since 4 is better in pretty much every way, and the editor was half-broken in UT2003) are either from more polys than my computer can handle, or bad design. There is a water bug in UT that can lead to unavoidable bad FPS (beyond changing the water), but I don't know if it's the same in UT2003/4.

    MMAN on
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    Burning OrganBurning Organ Registered User regular
    edited November 2007
    Maybe, just maybe, deep FPS RPGs.
    With real inventory systems....
    Yes....

    Burning Organ on
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    SpoitSpoit *twitch twitch* Registered User regular
    edited November 2007
    Urgel wrote: »
    Maybe, just maybe, deep FPS RPGs.
    With real inventory systems....
    Yes....

    Like the decade old Deus Ex?

    Spoit on
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    Burning OrganBurning Organ Registered User regular
    edited November 2007
    Spoit wrote: »
    Urgel wrote: »
    Maybe, just maybe, deep FPS RPGs.
    With real inventory systems....
    Yes....

    Like the decade old Deus Ex?

    Or system shock.....

    You can always dream, can't you?

    Burning Organ on
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