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Vista internet problems

Christ PuncherChrist Puncher Registered User regular
edited November 2007 in Games and Technology
Is it possible that using Vista can sometimes cause a internet network to fail?

There are a bunch of people with laptops in the house I live in and there is always alot of networking going on. The internet in the house stops working intermittently and a few of us seemed to have noticed that when users with Vista start using their laptops the internet seems to become more faulty. When non Vista users aren't on, the others can be on the internet uninterrupted for hours at a time (it seems at least, we have no real evidence for this). I'm not really sure how it could be true, but is it a possibility? It's a new router, so it would be kind of weird if the router was the problem, but I guess that could be the cause too.

The light on the router goes down to one instead of three, with only the DS" light still functioning when the internet goes down, if that helps.

We already called our ISP and they came to the house and said the internet is fine because it was (frustratingly) working ok when they came, but it's not fine at all and it's been a pain to deal with for the past month or so. Any insight would be appreciated.

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    FirebrandFirebrand Registered User regular
    edited November 2007
    I know some router firmwares have trouble with the new TCP/IP implementation in Vista, but I'm not sure if that's something that would affect other computers as well.

    Another guess would be the wireless mode on those computers forcing the router to switch speeds which can cause an interruption, but that's not something specific to Vista.

    Firebrand on
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    FiggyFiggy Fighter of the night man Champion of the sunRegistered User regular
    edited November 2007
    It sounds like you are suspecting a Vista computer is somehow affecting your network. Since you are all connected to a router, I don't see how this is possible.

    It would be an entirely different story if you were accessing the internet through a Vista desktop with multiple ethernet cards and junk.

    The only thing I can think of off the top of my head is that maybe a laptop is trying to use the same IP as another computer on the network. This will bork shit up considerabely. Are all your computers/laptops using static IP addresses? You should check that out and set that up, since it's a good practice anyway.

    Figgy on
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    Christ PuncherChrist Puncher Registered User regular
    edited November 2007
    Figgy wrote: »
    It sounds like you are suspecting a Vista computer is somehow affecting your network.

    Yeah, pretty much. In any case I think it probably has something to do with our laptops because there have been times when no one is on their laptop and I can play on Xbox Live with no problems whatsoever. But then a few people will start using their laptops and it will inevitably go down again. I don't know much about internet connections and all that, but is there a limit to how many connections a router can handle? Like maybe it is trying to handle too much or something and shuts down?

    I will look further into the IP thing and the wireless modes. How do I check/change what wireless mode I am using?

    edit: I'm not really sure about the same-IP thing because there have been all types of different combinations of people using the network and it still fails. It seemed to fail moreso when a Vista user was on the network which is why I mentioned it.

    Also, the 4 of us in the house right now are all in "G" mode and it still fucks up.

    Christ Puncher on
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    RookRook Registered User regular
    edited November 2007
    Figgy wrote: »
    It sounds like you are suspecting a Vista computer is somehow affecting your network.

    Yeah, pretty much. In any case I think it probably has something to do with our laptops because there have been times when no one is on their laptop and I can play on Xbox Live with no problems whatsoever. But then a few people will start using their laptops and it will inevitably go down again. I don't know much about internet connections and all that, but is there a limit to how many connections a router can handle? Like maybe it is trying to handle too much or something and shuts down?

    I will look further into the IP thing and the wireless modes. How do I check/change what wireless mode I am using?

    edit: I'm not really sure about the same-IP thing because there have been all types of different combinations of people using the network and it still fails. It seemed to fail moreso when a Vista user was on the network which is why I mentioned it.

    Also, the 4 of us in the house right now are all in "G" mode and it still fucks up.

    If someone is say bittorrenting or filesharing, that can really fuck up a network Also, you could see if there's a new firmware update for your router.

    Rook on
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    DonaldRumsfeldDonaldRumsfeld Registered User regular
    edited November 2007
    Is it possible that using Vista can sometimes cause a internet network to fail?

    There are a bunch of people with laptops in the house I live in and there is always alot of networking going on. The internet in the house stops working intermittently and a few of us seemed to have noticed that when users with Vista start using their laptops the internet seems to become more faulty. When non Vista users aren't on, the others can be on the internet uninterrupted for hours at a time (it seems at least, we have no real evidence for this). I'm not really sure how it could be true, but is it a possibility? It's a new router, so it would be kind of weird if the router was the problem, but I guess that could be the cause too.

    The light on the router goes down to one instead of three, with only the DS" light still functioning when the internet goes down, if that helps.

    We already called our ISP and they came to the house and said the internet is fine because it was (frustratingly) working ok when they came, but it's not fine at all and it's been a pain to deal with for the past month or so. Any insight would be appreciated.
    I've had the same suspicions about vista

    also worth a note: my friend was asked not to bring in his vista laptop to work because it was crashing their network. I think hes running XP on it now and it works fine at his work

    DonaldRumsfeld on
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    scootchscootch Registered User regular
    edited November 2007
    try the vista/router compatibility test. it's on MS page somewhere..

    scootch on
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    VelmeranVelmeran Registered User regular
    edited November 2007
    Post what router it is you have, some of them really are terrible for more then 2-3 people, especially if you have people filesharing. UPNP can also be a problem if the router is an older model (here in China thats what is causing 1/2 the trouble with the internet at my college, D-link DI-604, don't touch them, they are ass unless its one person using it).

    Velmeran on
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    RatheRathe Registered User regular
    edited November 2007
    I think Vista may have something to do with it. I have two laptops, 1 using vista, 1 using XP and a desktop using 2000 or something(can't remember for sure its old and I rarely use it).

    I have used the vista at my current home and my old home, been dropped on both constantly. Sometimes I can go 30 seconds without dropping, sometimes I can go 2 hours. My internet is DSL and in addition to my normal dropping problems I get insta dropped whenever someone calls my phone line, as their call somehow disrupts my connection on my vista laptop but I have never noticed this issue on my other laptop or desktop(neither of which use vista). The dropping occurs regardless of if I am connected through wireless or hardline.

    I mainly do use my vista laptop at home so should really start using my xp laptop more often to verify this is a regularly occuring problem specific to vista.

    One other issue I have to look into as well is resetting my default network. I don't recall having as many connection issues on my vista when I set my school as its default network and used it primarily there so if I change that to my home network it may help deal with my connection dropping issues.

    Something specific to your own situation may be having too many people on one connection. I have often shared internet connections with multiple people and its usually pretty apparent when someone else has turned their computer on especially if they have alot of random crap installed and don't reformat regularly. It is because of this that one of the last houses I lived in that had 6 of us there we got two seperate internet connections(was partially done as well because one of the guys had issues in the past with going over his download limit and several of us didn't want to have to be responsible for it if he went over it again).

    Rathe on
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    Christ PuncherChrist Puncher Registered User regular
    edited November 2007
    My router is a Linksys WCG200 ver.2. I looked on Linksys's compatibility list on their site and I don't see it listed on there.

    But then I also went to Microsoft's page and ran that Compatibility test that scootch suggested and It passed all except the Universal Plug and Play one: Here is the report:

    Basic Internet Connectivity

    This test is intended to ensure that your computer has basic Internet connectivity, which is needed for the rest of the tests.

    A result of "Supported" indicates that your computer has basic Internet connectivity.

    Supported.

    Network Address Translator Type

    One primary function of most home Internet routers is Network Address Translation (NAT). Routers providing NAT support assign private IP addresses on the local network. NAT maps these private addresses on the inside network to a public IP address on the outside network so that computers behind the Internet router can communicate with the rest of the Internet. Since Network Address Translators can work in different ways, this test uses Microsoft servers to identify your router's NAT type. Some protocols work better through routers that act as cone-type NATs than routers that act as symmetric-type NATs.

    Success of this test means that your Internet router or firewall acts similar to a cone NAT. This means that it helps applications which use Internet Protocol version 6 (IPv6) to connect, regardless of your ISP's IPv6 support. For example, in Windows Vista you can collaborate with others across the Internet using Windows Meeting Space.

    Supported.

    Traffic Congestion Test

    Internet routers sometimes lose information that is being transferred across the Internet when they experience congestion (full router queues). This loss of information is known as packet loss. Internet protocols like the Transport Control Protocol (TCP) can use packet loss as a congestion indicator. Explicit Congestion Notification (ECN) is a mechanism that provides routers with an alternate method of communicating network congestion. This notification effectively reduces TCP retransmissions and increases throughput. This test attempts to download a short Web document, first with ECN enabled and then again with ECN disabled. If both downloads succeed, the test passes, which indicates that your Internet router successfully allows packets through with ECN options set.

    A result of "Supported" indicates that your router can work with this new Vista Feature to improve download speeds and increase endpoint connection reliability. Note You would need to explicitly enable ECN on Vista to take advantage of this feature.

    Supported.

    TCP High Performance Test

    Window scaling is a Transport Control Protocol (TCP) option introduced for addressing performance problems. Some Internet routers cause TCP data transfers that use window scaling to fail, particularly when there's a mismatch between the scales chosen by two computers transferring the data. This test downloads a series of Web documents of increasing length until either an incomplete download is encountered or all downloads succeed. Success indicates that your router allows Windows Vista to negotiate the best data transfer rate and help improve download speeds.

    A result of "Supported" means that Windows Vista automatically uses window scaling to negotiate the best/largest data transfer rate and help improve download speeds.

    Supported.

    UPnP Support Test

    Many applications need to open ports (allow incoming traffic) through an Internet router, particularly when both communicating endpoints are behind different NATs. Modern routers allow hosts to create such open ports using Universal Plug and Play (UPnP). This test ensures that the router has UPnP enabled, can support a reasonable number of open ports, and can maintain these settings.

    If this test does not succeed, experiences using certain programs may be degraded. However, your basic Internet connectivity should not be affected.

    Not supported.

    Multiple Simultaneous Connection States Test

    This test creates 80 concurrent TCP connections to external Web servers and keeps them alive over the period of two minutes by attempting continuous data download using HTTP. Passing this test indicates that your router robustly supports multiple computers or programs accessing the Internet simultaneously.

    A result of "Supported" means that your Internet router can handle a large number of simultaneous connections. This will enable you to connect to the Internet reliably using multiple applications or multiple computers. Also, your experience with applications that use multiple network streams (like some file download/sharing programs) will be enhanced.

    Supported.

    So I'm still kind of lost as to whether my router is compatible or not.

    A friend of mine also suggested that neighboring households may be accessing the network (we originally had a password for it but for some reason the network stopped asking for it) and that I should log into my router and change Vista's "signal layer" which might prevent Vista's extra security packets from bogging down the network?

    Christ Puncher on
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    ben0207ben0207 Registered User regular
    edited November 2007
    Y'wanna talk about Vista problems? I have sat here on my desk (next to two Macs, I'm doing this as a favour to a mate, I havn't lost my mind) a laptop that absolutely refuses to connect to any wireless networks. The WiFi card is installed and working correctly, the wireless networks are all working correctly (there's at least two in reach, because the routers for them are in my room) but nope, no networks to connect to wirelessly. And it's driving me mad.

    The network is working. The wireless card is working. The laptop is working. Something else isn't working, and I'd bet it's the dirty V word.

    ben0207 on
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    RatheRathe Registered User regular
    edited November 2007


    A friend of mine also suggested that neighboring households may be accessing the network (we originally had a password for it but for some reason the network stopped asking for it) and that I should log into my router and change Vista's "signal layer" which might prevent Vista's extra security packets from bogging down the network?

    Its possible, but it may just be how your router is set up. My internet before having a router required me to input a password every time before I connected. My router set it up so I no longer had to input the internet password and allowed me to store the router password on each computer I wished to be able to connect wirelessly to the router so that I could have a secure network without having to enter a password each time I wanted to connect.

    Just do a search for wireless networks that you can detect and it will tell you if the network is secure or not. If your router is similar to mine there should be a button you can press to have the network be either secure or unsecure, someone may have accidentally pressed that button.

    Rathe on
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    RatheRathe Registered User regular
    edited November 2007
    ben0207 wrote: »
    Y'wanna talk about Vista problems? I have sat here on my desk (next to two Macs, I'm doing this as a favour to a mate, I havn't lost my mind) a laptop that absolutely refuses to connect to any wireless networks. The WiFi card is installed and working correctly, the wireless networks are all working correctly (there's at least two in reach, because the routers for them are in my room) but nope, no networks to connect to wirelessly. And it's driving me mad.

    The network is working. The wireless card is working. The laptop is working. Something else isn't working, and I'd bet it's the dirty V word.

    I haven't heard of vista having problems detecting a wireless network just staying connected to one. Either there is indeed a problem with the WiFi card concerning vista or there is some sort of interference. Try taking the laptop out of your room and detecting, probably won't change it, but it might.

    Rathe on
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    ben0207ben0207 Registered User regular
    edited November 2007
    This is back in my house after playing with it for an hour at his.

    And he says that using the same router it used to work for him at home. I'm very tempted to just get permission to nuke it and stick XP on it.

    ben0207 on
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    sonictksonictk Registered User regular
    edited November 2007
    UPnP in routers is always a shoddy experience for me. I end up turning it off anyway and any ports I need forwarded I do it manually. Sounds like your router is fine.
    A friend of mine also suggested that neighboring households may be accessing the network (we originally had a password for it but for some reason the network stopped asking for it) and that I should log into my router and change Vista's "signal layer" which might prevent Vista's extra security packets from bogging down the network?
    Um, WEP/WPA encryption works so that you only need to enter a key once, and it's stored on the PC and assigned to that particular network SSID. It shouldn't ask you for a new key every time you want to access the network unless you specifically set the key to be entered every time you connect to the network. I don't know how a router would suddenly stop asking for said password though,

    Also: When you say network performance degrades, does it only degrade for wireless, or for PCs connected via ethernet as well?

    If it's the former, try setting your wireless signal to broadcast on a different frequency (Standard 20-mhz seems to work the best out of every single network configuration I've dealt with).

    If it's the latter, I'd say one of the laptops was sucking up bandwidth or something. I doubt Vista would cause that.

    sonictk on
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    Christ PuncherChrist Puncher Registered User regular
    edited November 2007
    ^ How do I go about doing that, if it isn't too much trouble to explain?

    I used to run an ethernet cable to the router to see if it helped and from my recollection it ran more solidly but still crashed the router from time to time.

    About the security key, the network is apparently now unsecured even though originally it wasn't. I tried to change it back but couldn't get it working right. I'm not really all that internet savvy and had to go through linksys the first time around to get it set up properly.

    I'll take your guys's advice and update the firmware too to see if anything changes.

    Christ Puncher on
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    Christ PuncherChrist Puncher Registered User regular
    edited November 2007
    No firmware updates available from linksys's site. I googled a bit and it seems that this router is pretty problematic in general.

    Christ Puncher on
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    sonictksonictk Registered User regular
    edited November 2007
    About the security key, the network is apparently now unsecured even though originally it wasn't. I tried to change it back but couldn't get it working right. I'm not really all that internet savvy and had to go through linksys the first time around to get it set up properly.
    Never used the WCG200 series but I imagine Linksys's router administration control centers are pretty much standardized. Head to the admin page, under Security or Wireless Security or something along the lines of it, turn on WEP/WPA to secure your network.

    Then go to Wireless Settings or other and look around for a option that allows you to change the broadcast frequency of your router. It's pretty much look-around-a-bit-and-oh-there-it-is when it comes to changing router settings.

    Also, when you say your laptops' internet goes all haywire, did you try pinging your router to see if you had lost your connection to the router-thus-losing-internet-access-altogether, or just to the Internet? It might also help if you had a packet sniffer running on the main PC connected to the router while the other laptops were doing their stuff, so that in such an event you can immediately stop and analyze just what happened to the network in the last few minutes.
    And if the net was to be believed my old BEFW1154 should have exploded, caught on fire and eaten me alive for breakfast. Granted it just failed and I switched to this new WRT300N (which also has had a lot of complaints but it seems to be working as advertised so far) but it lasted me for about 6 years and outlasted 3 of my ISP's broadband modems. I'm sure Linksys does have problems with their routers (especially the admin UI ugh) but for the most part most of the bad hype is due to bad settings imo.

    A little OT there but I'm just not really sure why people keep crapping on Linksys. Or maybe it really is the other way round, but whatever.

    sonictk on
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    HearthjawHearthjaw Registered User regular
    edited November 2007
    Using Vista on a predominatly mac wireless network (so an old airport base station is the router). We havn't had a hitch so far.

    Hearthjaw on
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    Christ PuncherChrist Puncher Registered User regular
    edited November 2007
    No I never tried pinging it, not really sure how to go about that.

    When I try enabling a WEP key it just flat out won't let me connect anymore even if I use the same PW I set it up with.

    Tried fiddling around to see if I could change the frequency too but didn't see an option for it, not an obvious one at least.

    Kind of fed up at trying to figure it out at this point, I'm gonna call Linksys tommorow and see if I can sort it out. I'll post about it in here in case anyone is interested.

    Thanks for all the help again, and any more insight is welcome.

    Christ Puncher on
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    sonictksonictk Registered User regular
    edited November 2007
    When you use WEP, you have to enter a passphrase, which generates new keys based on the passphrase used. So if you used a different passphrase than was previously used, you'll have to enter a whole new key into your laptop.

    To ping an address:

    Start > Run > type 'cmd' > type 'ping <address>'

    To continually ping until otherwise told to stop (Ctrl_C): 'ping <address> -t'

    So for Linksys routers, your router/default gateway is (usually) at 192.168.1.1 . Ping that, and see if there's instant replies from it. (Or near instant) If it lags, or starts dropping packets, you know something's wrong.

    Also, I'm pretty sure every linksys router has an option to change the bandwidth of the broadcasting frequency, even my old BEFW1154 had it (and it didn't even have WPA support) try looking through your manual?
    ftp://ftp.linksys.com/pdf/wcg200_ug.pdf

    sonictk on
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