This is a little nitpicking but I swear pc gaming would go so much better if companies would release the source code to every game early on their boards so that when it hits the market and there is either a major or a minor glitch, you have the collective brain power of the market to help diagnose it and present an operative solution. Then, have the programmers form the official patch off this market solution and give credit to those involved. Make it clear they won't get money since the patch is not for profit, but people will get their jollies for helping be part of the solution.
I think alot of people go one way or the other because of the games. I simply prefer the type of games that come out for PC better. Whenever I look at games I'd like to play, but aren't on PC, there's rarely anything on the list. I think Mass Effect is the only one currently on their as a "must play".
RE: Silmultaneous Console/PC development
You really can tell when a games been developed for console rather then PC.It's alot of little things, but #1, and the first thing you'll notice, is the menu. It's an immediate tip off. PC menus are designed for a mouse, console menus for a pad. This extends to things like inventories and all sorts of other screens. And using a console menu with a mouse is pretty annoying most of the time. Also, controls in things like FPSs have a different feel, unless the port was done well.
It's not always anything that makes it worse, but you can usually tell.
I think there really needs to be a solution to the hardware issue with PC gaming. Even if you say that your old PC "could play" so-and-so game, what about the performance? I never want to play a game with less than a consistent 30FPS.
Your hardware has to be pretty goddamn shitty to get less than a consistent 30FPS. Like "I'm still rocking a Pentium 3 and 512MB of RAM" shitty.
I think there really needs to be a solution to the hardware issue with PC gaming. Even if you say that your old PC "could play" so-and-so game, what about the performance? I never want to play a game with less than a consistent 30FPS.
Your hardware has to be pretty goddamn shitty to get less than a consistent 30FPS. Like "I'm still rocking a Pentium 3 and 512MB of RAM" shitty.
Uhh, that depends on the game. And by consistent I mean I don't want the FPS to drop below 30 no matter what the hell happens. Best-case FPS means squat. Playing with graphics above this console gen and still accomplishing that takes a pretty beefy system.
fuck pc games, oh look at this new engine, these particles, oh the shiny shadows!, oh look at this new pc you're going to have to buy to play any goddamn new game!
Uh, what? I really dont want to get into it, but i guess ill bite.
Lets suppose I have an original xbox. now lets suppose i purchase halo 1. i enjoy halo 1. now halo 2 comes out. i enjoy halo 2. then halo 3 comes out. Oh Noes! Look at the engine! the shiny shadows! I need a XBOX 360 to play it. damn so much for that.
now im not saying that pc games arent like that. just that you do have some chance of playing newer games on old systems. i could play something like call of duty 4 on a slightly older machine, but i could never play halo 3 on a original xbox
Like people said, it doesn't really cost as much as Dell and such make it out to be, and you don't need to upgrade 3 times a year.
$500 will get you an upgrade {basically no case, PSU, or harddrive} that can run Crysis at max settings {without AA, which from my experience from playing the game, is barely noticeable anyways}. So basically if you don't have a computer at all, you can make one that will run the newest games at max settings for around $750-800, which includes the OS and monitor.
Neva on
SC2 Beta: Neva.ling
"Everyone who is capable of logical thought should be able to see why you shouldn't sell lifetime subscriptions to an MMO. Cell phone companies and drug dealers don't offer lifetime subscriptions either, guess why?" - Mugaaz
Sales... eh. I got nothing, but it sure seems like attention as been more focused towards the console market (vs say the Tie Fighter era). Of course, this is obvious and not really arguable so I'll go back to doing whatever it is I do now...
Actually I think the difference between now vs the TIE Fighter era is that games get advertising now. Really, outside of ads in gaming magazines where did you see ads for PC games? Or really games of any type? It wasn't really until around the start of the PS2 era that large scale advertising really started was it?
In fact has there ever been a mass media advertised PC exclusive?
Sales... eh. I got nothing, but it sure seems like attention as been more focused towards the console market (vs say the Tie Fighter era). Of course, this is obvious and not really arguable so I'll go back to doing whatever it is I do now...
Actually I think the difference between now vs the TIE Fighter era is that games get advertising now. Really, outside of ads in gaming magazines where did you see ads for PC games? Or really games of any type? It wasn't really until around the start of the PS2 era that large scale advertising really started was it?
In fact has there ever been a mass media advertised PC exclusive?
PSX era actually, lest we forget FINAL FANTASY 7 A TRUE MOTION PICTURE EXPERIENCE.
Sales... eh. I got nothing, but it sure seems like attention as been more focused towards the console market (vs say the Tie Fighter era). Of course, this is obvious and not really arguable so I'll go back to doing whatever it is I do now...
Actually I think the difference between now vs the TIE Fighter era is that games get advertising now. Really, outside of ads in gaming magazines where did you see ads for PC games? Or really games of any type? It wasn't really until around the start of the PS2 era that large scale advertising really started was it?
In fact has there ever been a mass media advertised PC exclusive?
PSX era actually, lest we forget FINAL FANTASY 7 A TRUE MOTION PICTURE EXPERIENCE.
I thought of that but I don't know I'd say it was widely advertised. Granted all I have to work with is anecdotal evidence but I can only recall seeing it once or twice compared to say Twisted Metal Black which I recall seeing ads on just about every night for a couple of months around it's release.
fuck pc games, oh look at this new engine, these particles, oh the shiny shadows!, oh look at this new pc you're going to have to buy to play any goddamn new game!
Uh, what? I really dont want to get into it, but i guess ill bite.
Lets suppose I have an original xbox. now lets suppose i purchase halo 1. i enjoy halo 1. now halo 2 comes out. i enjoy halo 2. then halo 3 comes out. Oh Noes! Look at the engine! the shiny shadows! I need a XBOX 360 to play it. damn so much for that.
now im not saying that pc games arent like that. just that you do have some chance of playing newer games on old systems. i could play something like call of duty 4 on a slightly older machine, but i could never play halo 3 on a original xbox
That's my point, too. And console lovers who hate pcs usually forget that the whole pricing relation from PC to console is wildly different in other fucking countries. it's a hell lot cheaper to upgrade my pc than buying a new console here in Brazil.
For instance, I bought my PS2 2 years ago, and I love MGS3. Now I wanna play MGS4, but not only the PS3 is ridiculously expensive here (around 1500 dollars), but it's looking more and more like a very stupid investment of my monies. I mean, spending 1500 dollars on a dead-end console, and I can't even sell my PS2 to help pay for it, because the new, less expensive systems won't play PS2 games.
And even if you spend a lot of cash on a PC, it will never be a dead end (unless you bought a Matrox or 3DFX card, ehehehe), your super-expensive PC WILL RECEIVE newer and cooler games for it.
And seriously, I've recently spent a relatively amount of money in order to double my RAM (to 2GB) and the leap in performance was awesome. I can't just upgrade my PS2, or my gamecube. I'd have to invest in an entire new platform in order to play MGS4, FF13 or MP3. And DAMN, I wanna play MP3, but I don't have the moneys to buy a wii (nor my wife would approve it). OTOH, here I am, playing Bioshock with all the bells and whistles, on 1024x768 (which is more than good enough) on my frankenstein of a Sempron 64 3000+ (it has a venice Athlon64 core), an AGP geforce 7800GS and 2 GB RAM. CoD4 is fine, too, and so is all of the Orange box. I have DOSBox to play all my beloved classics from the past, like Ultima VII and Wing Commander 1, 2, 3, Privateer and Armada. I can make Oblivion a hell lot better, technically, graphically and gameplaywise with all the cool mods and tweaks. I can enjoy quick rounds of multiplayer TF2 between long hours of work, without leaving my chair. I can have fun with crazy, original indie games...
I mean, I love my consoles, I love my DS, but my pc is the king of all gaming in this house.
I can't say I've ever noticed any major decrease in quality nor quantity when it comes to pc games. I also have just as many people (or more) than usual to play against online
If sales really are plummeting, then perhaps it is because of pirating? Hundreds of thousands of downloads from various sites everytime a new game gets released has to hurt the industry. You can do the same with consoles, but it involves a lot more than the average joe wants to bother with.
I can't say I've ever noticed any major decrease in quality nor quantity when it comes to pc games. I also have just as many people (or more) than usual to play against online
If sales really are plummeting, then perhaps it is because of pirating? Hundreds of thousands of downloads from various sites everytime a new game gets released has to hurt the industry. You can do the same with consoles, but it involves a lot more than the average joe wants to bother with.
I guess the problem within that is that most PC gamers are power users. Pirating is easier than making that 40 bucks from your neighbor for installing windows, if you are a power user.
I didn't know the international pricing on consoles was so screwy. Good ol PC saves the day. Right now more than ever people are bitching about upgrades. But honestly, we just had a new boost in tech, dual core, pci ex, 8000 nvidia series. I mean did anyone bitch when they had to get rid of their Xbox and buy a 360? Right around now is one of those crucial upgrade, now or soon, times for us PC gamers. The glory of our upgrades though is we can do it in smaller invested chunks over a few year, as opposed to BLAM throwing down a Grand+ on a new machine, like a lot of uninformed buyers believe.
No PC owner claims to build his machine out of duct tape, gum, and 100 dollars. We are usually informed buyers. Me and most my PC friends have half the fun scouring through newegg and fry's most the time for promising PC deals.
Like stated earlier, the PC experience is a very personalized experience. With all the personalization comes a big learning curve I guess. But if you get over that not only will you have a very tailored gaming experience, but the knowledge you gain from PC's in general can help you in school, work, and help everyone around you.
I can't say I've ever noticed any major decrease in quality nor quantity when it comes to pc games. I also have just as many people (or more) than usual to play against online
If sales really are plummeting, then perhaps it is because of pirating? Hundreds of thousands of downloads from various sites everytime a new game gets released has to hurt the industry. You can do the same with consoles, but it involves a lot more than the average joe wants to bother with.
I guess the problem within that is that most PC gamers are power users. Pirating is easier than making that 40 bucks from your neighbor for installing windows, if you are a power user.
I didn't know the international pricing on consoles was so screwy. Good ol PC saves the day. Right now more than ever people are bitching about upgrades. But honestly, we just had a new boost in tech, dual core, pci ex, 8000 nvidia series. I mean did anyone bitch when they had to get rid of their Xbox and buy a 360? Right around now is one of those crucial upgrade, now or soon, times for us PC gamers. The glory of our upgrades though is we can do it in smaller invested chunks over a few year, as opposed to BLAM throwing down a Grand+ on a new machine, like a lot of uninformed buyers believe.
No PC owner claims to build his machine out of duct tape, gum, and 100 dollars. We are usually informed buyers. Me and most my PC friends have half the fun scouring through newegg and fry's most the time for promising PC deals.
Like stated earlier, the PC experience is a very personalized experience. With all the personalization comes a big learning curve I guess. But if you get over that not only will you have a very tailored gaming experience, but the knowledge you gain from PC's in general can help you in school, work, and help everyone around you.
Except...Isn't europe just as screwed with all other tech pricings as well? I suppose it might be easier to import parts which will work perfectly fine anywhere than consoles with regional lockouts, but still....
The big comeback PC gaming is presently making is that developers are getting better at squeezing more performance out of the mid-range hardware, which IMO is pretty damn important. For a long while there was way too much of a trend to simply focus on the high-end effects rather then making what the middle of the ground is look good (degrade gracefully).
So has anyone mentioned digital distribution yet? Becuase you know, Steam ROCKS, and at least count, had over 14 million active subscribers. That was months ago BTW, and before the release of Orange Box.
Seriously, I'd be willing to bet that store sales of PC games are going down. How much money do MMO's and digital distribution schemes like Steam bring in?
There's like a million other points I want to make about PC gaming, but I can tell most will have been covered already anyway.
Plus, my Gears of War install has just completed so I'm off to play that in Hi-res with 5 new chapters and KBAM support. Later all.
I'm not usually one to diss threads, but I would like to ask each of you to look hard at the thread and ask yourself, "Are we really achieving anything here?"
Vic on
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TavIrish Minister for DefenceRegistered Userregular
edited November 2007
I don't know about you guys, but with budget PC gaming I can get 15 quality PC games for the price of 1 new Xbox 360 game. I'd call that better value, especially when talking about games such as Dues Ex, Warcraft 3, Thief trilogy, Max Payne 1&2, etc. Especially when you consider that nearly any PC game you pick up is going to have an online community pumping out quality mods for it.
Threads like this are dumb, saying PC gaming is dead is the same as saying that the Xbox is for l337 speek prepubescent idiots who scream abuse at strangers down a mic.
I'm not usually one to diss threads, but I would like to ask each of you to look hard at the thread and ask yourself, "Are we really achieving anything here?"
Nah, not really. Just rehashing the same old shit. Though if anything, Neva posted a link that TheBog found interesting (about upgrading your PC for teh cheap), so at least somebody learned something today.
I was just reading over some of the posts in this thread and I saw something along the lines of, "It costs a lot more to play PC games than console games." Sure, PCs are more expensive, but a PC isn't just for gaming. Honestly, who doesn't already own a PC? Every one of you must (or your family does), otherwise you wouldn't be posting here. And a lot of games run well on a number of decent systems. Chances are, if you own a PC, you can play PC games. Just not on high settings.
I think this will get better. Right now graphical and computational requirements are increasing at a rapid rate, but there will be a time in the not so distant future where this increase will slow down. Then as the hardware catches up compatibility will increase even more.
I figure that if you're getting a good gaming PC plus a nice widescreen monitor plus some gaming accessories, you'll spend around $2000. Maybe add some 5.1 to your PC for $300, right?
But if you're a console gamer, it's just as costly. Say you want to go the Wii+360 route. You'd buy the two consoles for $600 and some accessories and extra controllers for $75 more. Then you might want a HDTV for $1000 more. Then you still need a crappy PC to visit websites and receive e-mails so that's $600. $2275?
I figure that if you're getting a good gaming PC plus a nice widescreen monitor plus some gaming accessories, you'll spend around $2000. Maybe add some 5.1 to your PC for $300, right?
But if you're a console gamer, it's just as costly. Say you want to go the Wii+360 route. You'd buy the two consoles for $600 and some accessories and extra controllers for $75 more. Then you might want a HDTV for $1000 more. Then you still need a crappy PC to visit websites and receive e-mails so that's $600. $2275?
You also need a media center for the console to sit on, which is like $500 too.
Oh yeah, and a house for you and the console which is at LEAST $100,000.
So overall the PC is $2000 and the console is $102775.
We've already have this thread. It had the same outcome.
Core 2 duo E6750 and 4 gig ram system cost me only $800
That's not a whole lot more than PS3 launch price.
granted, I still have video card upgrade to go, plus I re-used some parts from my old comp, but the point is, good PC being expensive is just a myth created by those aliencrap and dellcrap over-priced computers.
buy components and build it yourself. You'll save money by gazillions.
Chances are, if you own a PC, you can play PC games. Just not on high settings.
Not really.
I know a lot of people with Dell/Compaq/eMachines systems that they got for like $400 that only have integrated graphics cards. They don't use their PC's for games, so it really doesn't matter to them, but I think it's a bit dishonest to say every PC can play games.
Getting a 360 was pretty much the main reason I bought a $800 HDTV last year My old TV was near death, I was going to get just another elcheapo SDTV because I wanted to wait for HD to come down in price more. But I knew I was getting the 360 soon and that I wouldn't see the full benefit of it unless I went to HDTV
not that I regret my purchase one bit, but the 360 was the driving force behind it.
Though to be fair, that sort of combination is a new occurance. prior to the jump from SDTV to HDTV, when did anyone need to upgrade their Entertainment Center to play a console game?
The HD fad will burn itself out eventually. HD will become the standard and things will get cheaper, Companies will still try and push some expensive technology somewhere down the road that really doesn't add anything of value to your average consumer above the HD experience and the TV industry will fall back to the way things were again.
Core 2 duo E6750 and 4 gig ram system cost me only $800
That's not a whole lot more than PS3 launch price.
granted, I still have video card upgrade to go, plus I re-used parts from my old comp, but the point is, good PC being expensive is just a myth created by those aliencrap and dellcrap over-priced computers.
Wait a minute. You're saying that 1/3 of your system costs $200 more than the most expensive console, and that's proof that PC gaming isn't expensive?o_O
Core 2 duo E6750 and 4 gig ram system cost me only $800
That's not a whole lot more than PS3 launch price.
granted, I still have video card upgrade to go, plus I re-used parts from my old comp, but the point is, good PC being expensive is just a myth created by those aliencrap and dellcrap over-priced computers.
Wait a minute. You're saying that 1/3 of your system costs $200 more than the most expensive console, and that's proof that PC gaming isn't expensive?o_O
Core 2 duo E6750 and 4 gig ram system cost me only $800
That's not a whole lot more than PS3 launch price.
granted, I still have video card upgrade to go, plus I re-used parts from my old comp, but the point is, good PC being expensive is just a myth created by those aliencrap and dellcrap over-priced computers.
Wait a minute. You're saying that 1/3 of your system costs $200 more than the most expensive console, and that's proof that PC gaming isn't expensive?o_O
Core 2 duo E6750 and 4 gig ram system
more than 2 components.
Ah, I see. Mis-read that part.
Still, $800 for an almost complete gaming computer is more expensive than a console, so I really don't see how 'PC gaming is expensive' is a myth.
Inglorious Coyote on
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HedgethornAssociate Professor of Historical Hobby HorsesIn the Lions' DenRegistered Userregular
I figure that if you're getting a good gaming PC plus a nice widescreen monitor plus some gaming accessories, you'll spend around $2000. Maybe add some 5.1 to your PC for $300, right?
But if you're a console gamer, it's just as costly. Say you want to go the Wii+360 route. You'd buy the two consoles for $600 and some accessories and extra controllers for $75 more. Then you might want a HDTV for $1000 more. Then you still need a crappy PC to visit websites and receive e-mails so that's $600. $2275?
I still don't understand how "a good gaming PC" is $2000+. Over two-and-a-half years ago I built a PC for $750 (Athlon 64, Geforce 6600GT, etc.). All of that was brand new; no reusing parts from previous boxes. Since then, I've done exactly three things: (i) Got a flat screen monitor to replace the old CRT ($140); (ii) upped my RAM from 512 MB to 1.5 GB ($80); and (iii) went from my single core processor to a dual core AMD64x2 ($110).
So, in almost three years I've spent $1080. I first used this machine for Half-Life 2; since then, I've played Unreal Tournament, Doom 3, Orange Box, Gametap, etc. I played Bioshock on that machine not two months ago (admittedly, Bioshock was pushing the limits of my video card).
In addition, I have a machine that I do all my writing and class prep on. So how is PC gaming a money sink again?
Core 2 duo E6750 and 4 gig ram system cost me only $800
That's not a whole lot more than PS3 launch price.
granted, I still have video card upgrade to go, plus I re-used parts from my old comp, but the point is, good PC being expensive is just a myth created by those aliencrap and dellcrap over-priced computers.
Wait a minute. You're saying that 1/3 of your system costs $200 more than the most expensive console, and that's proof that PC gaming isn't expensive?o_O
Core 2 duo E6750 and 4 gig ram system
more than 2 components.
Ah, I see. Mis-read that part.
Still, $800 for an almost complete gaming computer is more expensive than a console, so I really don't see how 'PC gaming is expensive' is a myth.
Sure, it's much more expensive than let's say, mid-range 360, but people sometimes pay money to buy 2 or even 3 different consoles to play different games.
I don't see how paying extra money to get, for instance, a console (but what I really mean is PC) that has full backwards-compatibility all the way to beginning of the electronic gaming history plus the ability to play other consoles even.
Granted, I do computer related work so my purchases are justified but really, PC's are great, they have great value compared to the price, and they're far from dying out imo.
Core 2 duo E6750 and 4 gig ram system cost me only $800
That's not a whole lot more than PS3 launch price.
granted, I still have video card upgrade to go, plus I re-used parts from my old comp, but the point is, good PC being expensive is just a myth created by those aliencrap and dellcrap over-priced computers.
Wait a minute. You're saying that 1/3 of your system costs $200 more than the most expensive console, and that's proof that PC gaming isn't expensive?o_O
Core 2 duo E6750 and 4 gig ram system
more than 2 components.
Ah, I see. Mis-read that part.
Still, $800 for an almost complete gaming computer is more expensive than a console, so I really don't see how 'PC gaming is expensive' is a myth.
Sure, it's much more expensive than let's say, mid-range 360, but people sometimes pay money to buy 2 or even 3 different consoles to play different games.
I don't see how paying extra money to get, for instance, a console (but what I really mean is PC) that has full backwards-compatibility all the way to beginning of the electronic gaming history plus the ability to play other consoles even.
Granted, I do computer related work so my purchases are justified but really, PC's are great, they have great value compared to the price, and they're far from dying out imo.
I'll agree that, if for whatever reason you need a fairly powerful computer, PC gaming isn't much of an added expense especially for what you can get for it.
But for the guy with the 2 year old laptop that is just used for the web and email, getting a gaming PC is gonna cost more than getting a 360.
I think there's a bit of a disconnect, as some folks are assuming everyone who has a PC has one that's decently powerful, and I've found that not to be the case. Most people I know with a PC would need a lot more than throwing a video card in it to play any reasonably modern game. But most of us here are technology geeks, so we're more likely to have a better class of computer, so PC gaming isn't much of a stretch.
but we buy our powerful rigs because of gaming, or at least most of us probably do. I'd probably be buying sub-$1000 computers were it not for gaming.
EDIT: BTW, we get it everyone, this is an old topic, but some of us are contributing to it in a respectful fashion and not degenerating into PC or Console fanboys, so if all you have to contribute is just some lame dead horse joke. stay out.
What needs to happen is there needs to be one company to really make and press pre packaged gaming PCs.
Kinda like alienware stuff but much more mainstream and cheaper.
Otherwise PC gaming will always carry the stigma of being expensive and complicated. Even though it isnt, consoles will always be much more cheap and easy to use for the 'average gamer'. The average gamer doesnt even know about Crysis, or Starcraft 2. So to them high end PCs are useless. The average gamer does not browse these forums either.
We are the learned elite. There are a lot of us but noone on these boards is in any way an average gamer, or a casual gamer. It is important to note that noone who posts their opinions here is ignorant of these issues. Therefore this is why the PCvsConsole argument never ends on forums, cause it is one side fighting each other while the other side has no knowledge of the discussion.
The_Scarab on
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Ninja Snarl PMy helmet is my burden.Ninja Snarl: Gone, but not forgotten.Registered Userregular
edited November 2007
In an argument almost completely unrelated to the cost of PC's and upgrading arguments, my big thing against PC gaming are bad/poorly optimized games and bugs. I built a PC for fairly cheap when HL2 came out a)because I needed a desktop and b)I wanted to play HL2. It was no wonder machine, but something like STALKER is completely unplayable on the machine, no matter what the settings. STALKER is a pretty extreme example of bad optimization, but virtually any time I play a PC game (on any machine, not just mine), I wonder why the devs didn't do a better job of making the game run smoother.
Considering the kind of stuff that'll run perfectly on the old Xbox and the PS2, I find it inexcusable that if I meet the minimum requirements for a game, then that game should run smoothly at those minimum requirements. I also shouldn't have the game crash because it doesn't like my totally compatible video card, then have to wait a week for a patch.
Speaking of the "Halo fanboy" rhetoric, you know what gets on my nerves way, way more than somebody who really likes a game? People who say that a game looks better on the PC instead of the 360/PS3. Having played both COD4 and Bioshock and seen all the PC versions, they look pretty damn identical to me with an awesome PC at the best settings.
Anyway, I just wanted to point out that there are people who prefer the console games (especially nowadays) simply because they want to play the stupid games when they buy them and they want them to run the way they should.
PS: Also, why the hell do PC devs use CDs so much? HL2 came out on what, 3-4 discs? But the Orange Box for the 360 has one DVD. So stupid.
PSS: Double also, I do wish there was a way to work modding onto console games, but hey, that's life.
The last game that I picked up on CD was Lego Star Wars, and to be fair, that was 1CD so I'll let them off. In Europe we probably switched to to DVD 3-4 years ago.
Oh, you're wrong about Stalker, that game runs great on old hardware. Just turn the lighting model to static and you should get a great gaming experience out of 9800era hardware.
Posts
RE: Silmultaneous Console/PC development
You really can tell when a games been developed for console rather then PC.It's alot of little things, but #1, and the first thing you'll notice, is the menu. It's an immediate tip off. PC menus are designed for a mouse, console menus for a pad. This extends to things like inventories and all sorts of other screens. And using a console menu with a mouse is pretty annoying most of the time. Also, controls in things like FPSs have a different feel, unless the port was done well.
It's not always anything that makes it worse, but you can usually tell.
Uh, what? I really dont want to get into it, but i guess ill bite.
Lets suppose I have an original xbox. now lets suppose i purchase halo 1. i enjoy halo 1. now halo 2 comes out. i enjoy halo 2. then halo 3 comes out. Oh Noes! Look at the engine! the shiny shadows! I need a XBOX 360 to play it. damn so much for that.
now im not saying that pc games arent like that. just that you do have some chance of playing newer games on old systems. i could play something like call of duty 4 on a slightly older machine, but i could never play halo 3 on a original xbox
$500 will get you an upgrade {basically no case, PSU, or harddrive} that can run Crysis at max settings {without AA, which from my experience from playing the game, is barely noticeable anyways}. So basically if you don't have a computer at all, you can make one that will run the newest games at max settings for around $750-800, which includes the OS and monitor.
"Everyone who is capable of logical thought should be able to see why you shouldn't sell lifetime subscriptions to an MMO. Cell phone companies and drug dealers don't offer lifetime subscriptions either, guess why?" - Mugaaz
Actually I think the difference between now vs the TIE Fighter era is that games get advertising now. Really, outside of ads in gaming magazines where did you see ads for PC games? Or really games of any type? It wasn't really until around the start of the PS2 era that large scale advertising really started was it?
In fact has there ever been a mass media advertised PC exclusive?
PSX era actually, lest we forget FINAL FANTASY 7 A TRUE MOTION PICTURE EXPERIENCE.
I thought of that but I don't know I'd say it was widely advertised. Granted all I have to work with is anecdotal evidence but I can only recall seeing it once or twice compared to say Twisted Metal Black which I recall seeing ads on just about every night for a couple of months around it's release.
That's my point, too. And console lovers who hate pcs usually forget that the whole pricing relation from PC to console is wildly different in other fucking countries. it's a hell lot cheaper to upgrade my pc than buying a new console here in Brazil.
For instance, I bought my PS2 2 years ago, and I love MGS3. Now I wanna play MGS4, but not only the PS3 is ridiculously expensive here (around 1500 dollars), but it's looking more and more like a very stupid investment of my monies. I mean, spending 1500 dollars on a dead-end console, and I can't even sell my PS2 to help pay for it, because the new, less expensive systems won't play PS2 games.
And even if you spend a lot of cash on a PC, it will never be a dead end (unless you bought a Matrox or 3DFX card, ehehehe), your super-expensive PC WILL RECEIVE newer and cooler games for it.
And seriously, I've recently spent a relatively amount of money in order to double my RAM (to 2GB) and the leap in performance was awesome. I can't just upgrade my PS2, or my gamecube. I'd have to invest in an entire new platform in order to play MGS4, FF13 or MP3. And DAMN, I wanna play MP3, but I don't have the moneys to buy a wii (nor my wife would approve it). OTOH, here I am, playing Bioshock with all the bells and whistles, on 1024x768 (which is more than good enough) on my frankenstein of a Sempron 64 3000+ (it has a venice Athlon64 core), an AGP geforce 7800GS and 2 GB RAM. CoD4 is fine, too, and so is all of the Orange box. I have DOSBox to play all my beloved classics from the past, like Ultima VII and Wing Commander 1, 2, 3, Privateer and Armada. I can make Oblivion a hell lot better, technically, graphically and gameplaywise with all the cool mods and tweaks. I can enjoy quick rounds of multiplayer TF2 between long hours of work, without leaving my chair. I can have fun with crazy, original indie games...
I mean, I love my consoles, I love my DS, but my pc is the king of all gaming in this house.
If sales really are plummeting, then perhaps it is because of pirating? Hundreds of thousands of downloads from various sites everytime a new game gets released has to hurt the industry. You can do the same with consoles, but it involves a lot more than the average joe wants to bother with.
I guess the problem within that is that most PC gamers are power users. Pirating is easier than making that 40 bucks from your neighbor for installing windows, if you are a power user.
I didn't know the international pricing on consoles was so screwy. Good ol PC saves the day. Right now more than ever people are bitching about upgrades. But honestly, we just had a new boost in tech, dual core, pci ex, 8000 nvidia series. I mean did anyone bitch when they had to get rid of their Xbox and buy a 360? Right around now is one of those crucial upgrade, now or soon, times for us PC gamers. The glory of our upgrades though is we can do it in smaller invested chunks over a few year, as opposed to BLAM throwing down a Grand+ on a new machine, like a lot of uninformed buyers believe.
No PC owner claims to build his machine out of duct tape, gum, and 100 dollars. We are usually informed buyers. Me and most my PC friends have half the fun scouring through newegg and fry's most the time for promising PC deals.
Like stated earlier, the PC experience is a very personalized experience. With all the personalization comes a big learning curve I guess. But if you get over that not only will you have a very tailored gaming experience, but the knowledge you gain from PC's in general can help you in school, work, and help everyone around you.
Final Fantasy XI -> Carbuncle - Samash
Except...Isn't europe just as screwed with all other tech pricings as well? I suppose it might be easier to import parts which will work perfectly fine anywhere than consoles with regional lockouts, but still....
Seriously, I'd be willing to bet that store sales of PC games are going down. How much money do MMO's and digital distribution schemes like Steam bring in?
There's like a million other points I want to make about PC gaming, but I can tell most will have been covered already anyway.
Plus, my Gears of War install has just completed so I'm off to play that in Hi-res with 5 new chapters and KBAM support. Later all.
Threads like this are dumb, saying PC gaming is dead is the same as saying that the Xbox is for l337 speek prepubescent idiots who scream abuse at strangers down a mic.
Nah, not really. Just rehashing the same old shit. Though if anything, Neva posted a link that TheBog found interesting (about upgrading your PC for teh cheap), so at least somebody learned something today.
I'M NOT ENTIRELY SURE WHY
*kicks*
BUT ITS NOT!
I think this will get better. Right now graphical and computational requirements are increasing at a rapid rate, but there will be a time in the not so distant future where this increase will slow down. Then as the hardware catches up compatibility will increase even more.
But if you're a console gamer, it's just as costly. Say you want to go the Wii+360 route. You'd buy the two consoles for $600 and some accessories and extra controllers for $75 more. Then you might want a HDTV for $1000 more. Then you still need a crappy PC to visit websites and receive e-mails so that's $600. $2275?
You also need a media center for the console to sit on, which is like $500 too.
Oh yeah, and a house for you and the console which is at LEAST $100,000.
So overall the PC is $2000 and the console is $102775.
Let 'em eat fucking pineapples!
That's not a whole lot more than PS3 launch price.
granted, I still have video card upgrade to go, plus I re-used some parts from my old comp, but the point is, good PC being expensive is just a myth created by those aliencrap and dellcrap over-priced computers.
buy components and build it yourself. You'll save money by gazillions.
I know a lot of people with Dell/Compaq/eMachines systems that they got for like $400 that only have integrated graphics cards. They don't use their PC's for games, so it really doesn't matter to them, but I think it's a bit dishonest to say every PC can play games.
not that I regret my purchase one bit, but the 360 was the driving force behind it.
Though to be fair, that sort of combination is a new occurance. prior to the jump from SDTV to HDTV, when did anyone need to upgrade their Entertainment Center to play a console game?
The HD fad will burn itself out eventually. HD will become the standard and things will get cheaper, Companies will still try and push some expensive technology somewhere down the road that really doesn't add anything of value to your average consumer above the HD experience and the TV industry will fall back to the way things were again.
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Core 2 duo E6750 and 4 gig ram system
more than 2 components.
Still, $800 for an almost complete gaming computer is more expensive than a console, so I really don't see how 'PC gaming is expensive' is a myth.
I still don't understand how "a good gaming PC" is $2000+. Over two-and-a-half years ago I built a PC for $750 (Athlon 64, Geforce 6600GT, etc.). All of that was brand new; no reusing parts from previous boxes. Since then, I've done exactly three things: (i) Got a flat screen monitor to replace the old CRT ($140); (ii) upped my RAM from 512 MB to 1.5 GB ($80); and (iii) went from my single core processor to a dual core AMD64x2 ($110).
So, in almost three years I've spent $1080. I first used this machine for Half-Life 2; since then, I've played Unreal Tournament, Doom 3, Orange Box, Gametap, etc. I played Bioshock on that machine not two months ago (admittedly, Bioshock was pushing the limits of my video card).
In addition, I have a machine that I do all my writing and class prep on. So how is PC gaming a money sink again?
Movies, music, video, recording studio, gaming platform (good god the LIBRARY!), web, mods ...
Doesn't emulation cover a lot of non-PC titles, anyway?
Sure, it's much more expensive than let's say, mid-range 360, but people sometimes pay money to buy 2 or even 3 different consoles to play different games.
I don't see how paying extra money to get, for instance, a console (but what I really mean is PC) that has full backwards-compatibility all the way to beginning of the electronic gaming history plus the ability to play other consoles even.
Granted, I do computer related work so my purchases are justified but really, PC's are great, they have great value compared to the price, and they're far from dying out imo.
But for the guy with the 2 year old laptop that is just used for the web and email, getting a gaming PC is gonna cost more than getting a 360.
I think there's a bit of a disconnect, as some folks are assuming everyone who has a PC has one that's decently powerful, and I've found that not to be the case. Most people I know with a PC would need a lot more than throwing a video card in it to play any reasonably modern game. But most of us here are technology geeks, so we're more likely to have a better class of computer, so PC gaming isn't much of a stretch.
EDIT: BTW, we get it everyone, this is an old topic, but some of us are contributing to it in a respectful fashion and not degenerating into PC or Console fanboys, so if all you have to contribute is just some lame dead horse joke. stay out.
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Kinda like alienware stuff but much more mainstream and cheaper.
Otherwise PC gaming will always carry the stigma of being expensive and complicated. Even though it isnt, consoles will always be much more cheap and easy to use for the 'average gamer'. The average gamer doesnt even know about Crysis, or Starcraft 2. So to them high end PCs are useless. The average gamer does not browse these forums either.
We are the learned elite. There are a lot of us but noone on these boards is in any way an average gamer, or a casual gamer. It is important to note that noone who posts their opinions here is ignorant of these issues. Therefore this is why the PCvsConsole argument never ends on forums, cause it is one side fighting each other while the other side has no knowledge of the discussion.
Considering the kind of stuff that'll run perfectly on the old Xbox and the PS2, I find it inexcusable that if I meet the minimum requirements for a game, then that game should run smoothly at those minimum requirements. I also shouldn't have the game crash because it doesn't like my totally compatible video card, then have to wait a week for a patch.
Speaking of the "Halo fanboy" rhetoric, you know what gets on my nerves way, way more than somebody who really likes a game? People who say that a game looks better on the PC instead of the 360/PS3. Having played both COD4 and Bioshock and seen all the PC versions, they look pretty damn identical to me with an awesome PC at the best settings.
Anyway, I just wanted to point out that there are people who prefer the console games (especially nowadays) simply because they want to play the stupid games when they buy them and they want them to run the way they should.
PS: Also, why the hell do PC devs use CDs so much? HL2 came out on what, 3-4 discs? But the Orange Box for the 360 has one DVD. So stupid.
PSS: Double also, I do wish there was a way to work modding onto console games, but hey, that's life.
Oh, you're wrong about Stalker, that game runs great on old hardware. Just turn the lighting model to static and you should get a great gaming experience out of 9800era hardware.