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Multimeters and my lack of understanding thereof

FFFF Once Upon a TimeIn OaklandRegistered User regular
edited November 2007 in Help / Advice Forum
I've got this multimeter and I'm trying to measure resistance with it. I've followed the instructions included with the meter. The instructions only provide for using the first setting I'm mentioning here (RX1K) When I measure the resistance using the RX1K setting (OHMS, multiply reading by 1000) I get what appears to be a 0.2 on their scale. Multiplied by 1000, I've got 200Ohms of resistance. So far, so good.

However, when I measure the same two contacts using the RX10 setting (OHMS multiply reading by 10) I get a 4 on the scale. Multiplied by 10 and that gives me a reading of 40Ohms of resistance.

So, what's the deal here? Since the range I'm looking for is basically, anything higher than 200Ohms is good, anything under 200Ohms is bad, should I be using the RX10 scale?

Huh...
FF on

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    blincolnblincoln Registered User regular
    edited November 2007
    Where are you placing the probes? They should go on either side of the thing you're measuring the resistance of (as opposed to inline before or after the thing), and the circuit should be in an unpowered state.

    blincoln on
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    FFFF Once Upon a Time In OaklandRegistered User regular
    edited November 2007
    As far as I can tell, the probes are going where they're supposed to go. According to the troubleshooting thing I have to go by one probe goes on one terminal and the other probe goes on the other terminal next to it, and it is unpowered.

    FF on
    Huh...
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    blincolnblincoln Registered User regular
    edited November 2007
    Maybe I am misunderstanding the way that device is set up or what you are doing, but I believe that is going to give you inaccurate results.
    Have a look here and see if it agrees with your instructions:

    http://www.wikihow.com/Use-an-Ohmmeter

    For example, you would use an ohmmeter to check the resistance of a potentiometer at a particular setting by putting one probe on the center terminal and the other probe on one of the outer terminals. You wouldn't e.g. disconnect the pot entirely and hook the ohmmeter up where the pot used to be, because then you're measuring something bizarre like the resistance across the entire rest of the device.
    Can you maybe be a bit more specific about what you're trying to test the resistance of?

    blincoln on
    Legacy of Kain: The Lost Worlds
    http://www.thelostworlds.net/
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    FFFF Once Upon a Time In OaklandRegistered User regular
    edited November 2007
    Sorry, I should have added some more specifics. I'm working on a computer. The troubleshooting step I'm at is to figure out if the problem is either the power supply or motherboard. To check the PS the manufacturers guide is telling me "using an ohm meter, measure the resistance across Terminal 1 and Terminal 2 for the CPU". This step occurs after removing the power cord so I assume that means the machine is to be powered off.

    The instruction includes a picture of the terminals and also tells me that anything about 200ohms is good, anything below 10ohms is bad.

    I'm guessing that from my halfassed testing that it's above 10ohms, but I want to be sure I'm using this thing correctly.

    FF on
    Huh...
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    King KongKing Kong Registered User regular
    edited November 2007
    The 10K setting is to be used in large applications where if you used the 1k setting it would simply be too high a number to read (usually seen as "OL" on most meters. A good rule to follow when using a multimeter (wether you are measuring amps volts, Ohms etc) is always start with the lowest setting.

    Just stick to 1k setting and you're fine (I'm actually taking automotive electronics right now so this isn't just out of my ass)

    King Kong on
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    Lord YodLord Yod Registered User regular
    edited November 2007
    Yeah, leave it on the 1k setting. As long as you have the leads hooked up to the correct terminals, it should give an accurate reading.

    This is a digital ohmmeter we're talking about, right...?

    Lord Yod on
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    CycophantCycophant Registered User regular
    edited November 2007
    King Kong wrote: »
    A good rule to follow when using a multimeter (wether you are measuring amps volts, Ohms etc) is always start with the lowest setting.

    Really? I was taught the opposite - start with the highest setting and work your way down, since setting the multimeter to too-low of a setting and measuring a high value can potentially damage it. Of course this doesn't apply to measuring resistance, or to auto-ranging multimeters, and I can't -really- see it being a problem with the values you'd find in a PC, but still.

    Cycophant on
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    FFFF Once Upon a Time In OaklandRegistered User regular
    edited November 2007
    God, I wish it was digital.

    The next time I hear we're purchasing tools at work, that's first on the list.

    FF on
    Huh...
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    ecco the dolphinecco the dolphin Registered User regular
    edited November 2007
    Wait, you've got an analogue multimeter?

    It's not uncommon for analogue ones to have different scales for different settings. Make sure that you're reading off the right scale. And what are you trying to measure the resistance of?

    ecco the dolphin on
    Penny Arcade Developers at PADev.net.
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    Lord YodLord Yod Registered User regular
    edited November 2007
    Don't even try to measure resistance with an analog ohmmeter, especially on something delicate like a CPU. I've never seen one that was worth more than the effort required to throw it in the trash. (Granted, I've never seen any super-expensive ones either - however, you can get a perfectly good digital one for $100 or less)

    Lord Yod on
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    ecco the dolphinecco the dolphin Registered User regular
    edited November 2007
    FF wrote: »
    Sorry, I should have added some more specifics. I'm working on a computer. The troubleshooting step I'm at is to figure out if the problem is either the power supply or motherboard. To check the PS the manufacturers guide is telling me "using an ohm meter, measure the resistance across Terminal 1 and Terminal 2 for the CPU". This step occurs after removing the power cord so I assume that means the machine is to be powered off.

    The instruction includes a picture of the terminals and also tells me that anything about 200ohms is good, anything below 10ohms is bad.

    I'm guessing that from my halfassed testing that it's above 10ohms, but I want to be sure I'm using this thing correctly.

    Oh man, I should learn to read.

    Anyway, it seems that what they're trying to get you to do is test for the presence of a short circuit.

    Below 10 ohms means that something in the circuitry has shorted (and is thus borked). Anything well above 10 ohms demonstrates that a short circuit is not present, and thus not the problem.

    Based on your testing, you do not have a short circuit where you're measuring.
    However, when I measure the same two contacts using the RX10 setting (OHMS multiply reading by 10) I get a 4 on the scale. Multiplied by 10 and that gives me a reading of 40Ohms of resistance.

    So, what's the deal here? Since the range I'm looking for is basically, anything higher than 200Ohms is good, anything under 200Ohms is bad, should I be using the RX10 scale?

    Does your scale for RX10 go to 20? If not, then you cannot realistically use the RX10 setting if you expect it to be 200 Ohms.

    ecco the dolphin on
    Penny Arcade Developers at PADev.net.
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    FFFF Once Upon a Time In OaklandRegistered User regular
    edited November 2007
    Well that's the thing. On this meter there is only one Ohm scale. It goes from 0-10k. I'll take a pic of the meter when I get in tomorrow, maybe that'll explain it better.

    Never the less, it does look like I'm getting resistance across the two terminals so it looks like the pwer supply is good, meaning it's the motherboard.

    (For future reference...or something...What I'm working on is a G5 Power Mac. The troubleshooting steps are from the service manual. Yes, I am aware that I probably should already know how to use a multimeter. Als, I do not. Well, did not.)

    FF on
    Huh...
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    Lord YodLord Yod Registered User regular
    edited November 2007
    Does it look like this?
    metramax6.jpg

    If so, each curve of the gauge indicates a separate scale - most of them have 2 or 3 settings for range, and you read off the appropriate color.

    Lord Yod on
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    ecco the dolphinecco the dolphin Registered User regular
    edited November 2007
    FF wrote: »
    Yes, I am aware that I probably should already know how to use a multimeter. Als, I do not. Well, did not.

    Meh, everyone's got to start somewhere.

    But if you'd like a more detailed explanation of why you're not getting consistent results, then:

    * The results from ohm-meters/multimeters are only guaranteed to be consistent if you have a pure resistor (I admit, fringe cases exist, but I'll simplify for now).
    * This is because the multimeters put a known current through the probes (my old analogue meter puts 150mA at RX1, 15mA at RX10, 0.15mA at RX1K), and measures the resulting voltage across the probes to determine the resistance using Ohm's Law, V = I R
    * The terminals that you're being asked to measure across have all manner of components - inductors, capacitors, transistors, perhaps other integrated circuits connected to them
    * Depending on the setting you've turned your multimeter on to, you're feeding different amounts of currents into all those components, which might be enough to, say, turn a transistor half on, or charge up a capacitor to such and such a voltage. It's hard to say without a circuit diagram.
    * As a result, feeding, say, 100 times more current isn't necessarily going to give you 100 times more voltage (The RX10 will feed 100 times more current than RX1k) because 100 times more current might turn a transistor on which reduces the output voltage. Or you might force a diode to conduct or something.
    * Thus, you will get inconsistant readings between using RX10, and RX1k modes.

    An exception to this is if you have a short circuit - where the resistance is 0. In which case, it doesn't matter what current you feed in, because V = I x 0 = 0V. This is why you can only really test for the presence of a short circuit in complex circuits.

    ecco the dolphin on
    Penny Arcade Developers at PADev.net.
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    FFFF Once Upon a Time In OaklandRegistered User regular
    edited November 2007
    Wow...as unfamiliar with how electronics (capacitors, transistors, etc) work as I am, that actually made sense to me. Thanks.

    Thanks to all of you actually.

    FF on
    Huh...
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