Affordable Gaming PC need help

Whirlo

So for ~$600 i get all of the following, and my hope is to be able to play
all the new hotness (COD4, Bioshock) with good to very good settings, and blast the
settings on wow, sc2, and other older games. Basically what I need help with is from any experts on these forums who can warn me not to make any of the choices below, or to tell me which areas I shouldn't skimp on, or which areas I can't stand to buff a little.

Motherboard
-Ecs P4m900t-M Lga775 1066fsb Pci-E Sata

Intel Pentium D - Dual Core Processors
-Intel Pentium D 930 925 Dual Core 3.0ghz

CPU Processor Fan
-Standard Cooling Fan & Heatsink Combo

Case Cooling Fan
-2x Case Cooling Fan 80mm (Regular Speed)

Ram
-DDR2 System Memory 2gb Pc2 5300 667mhz Ddr2 Kit 2x1gb Chips

Hard Drive
-80gb Sata150 7200rpm Hard Drive

Generic DVD-R, Generic CD-R, Generic Ethernet Adapter, Generic Sound
Card (they call them "Housebrand" and as far as I can tell i'm not
interested in these pieces being nice).

Paying $450 for all of the above.

Video Card:

Foxconn FV-N79SM2D2-OC GeForce 7900GS 256MB 256-bit GDDR3 PCI Express
x16 SLI Supported Video Card

$120 for that.

corky842

I don't know anything about Ecs, so I can't really comment on this motherboard. However, it is a microATX board, so keep that in mind when you buy a case.
I haven't heard much about the Pentium D processors, but a Core 2 Duo isn't much more, and you can overclock them to insane levels.
Why are you listing cooling fans on here? Are you going to use an old case or something? The fans that come in a new case are adequate.
2GB of RAM is good, 3-4 would probably be overkill for you for a while. Get a 2GB stick so you have room to upgrade. (But that motherboard is limited to 2GB. You'll have to find a new motherboard, or be satisfied with just 2GB.)
Just an 80GB hard drive? If you look hard enough, you can find a much better deal. Most new games take around 8GB.

You don't need both a DVD-R and a CD-R. Just get the DVD-R. Get a name-brand DVD-R (they can be found for around $30-35). That motherboard has integrated audio and ethernet, so you don't need to buy separate cards.

I would get an 8600GTS instead of the 7900GS. Better performance for $20-30 more.

Don't skimp on the power supply. I've had good luck with Thermaltake, but you should probably wait for more replies to this thread. Usually, the power supply that comes with a cheap case is crap.

Where are you buying this from?

yoshamano

ECS has always been a low-level mobo manufacturer. Sometimes they put out a solid board, sometimes they don't. I can't say for sure what the one you linked is, but I'd scrap simply for the facts that it doesn't have SATA 300 and it maxes out at 2GB of RAM. The ASUS P5L-MX is more what you should be shooting for.

Other than that I pretty much agree with Corky. Buy a bigger, SATA 300 hard drive (the speed difference is noticeable). ESPECIALLY don't skimp on the power supply. If it's anything less than 450W and/or $50 then it's probably a piece of shit.

Logicow

I hear that a single 10000rpm raptor drive makes everything load noticeably faster.

Other than that, a mini motherboard is not really the way to go for cheap gaming, and you'll get like double the performance in games with a GeForce 8800GT and a core 2 duo.

Edit: Looking at the direction you're going, I'd say get a cheap Dell and put a GeForce 8600 or such on it.

Goose!

My computer I built for almost exactly 600, but only because my dad gifted me a 320 GB HDD

But I suggest, instead of spending money on fans, buying a Cooler Master Centurion + Case. It comes with a rear fan, a side panel fan, and a side air duct that extends directly to your CPU (its not microATX though.)

I skimped on the VGU (it was probably one of my cheapest peripherals) but I get awesome performance out of it because its 512MB 128bit interface. And a 500W or more power supply.

Newegg really helped me get things cheap.

mastman

to help you guys answer his questions, here are some LINKS

He is building the barebones kit from this webstie's kit thingamabobber:

http://www.ascendtech.us/customkititems.asp?kc=DTPCPD930256WIN

with that third motherboard on the list.


video card
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814186013

Centipeed

If you want an affordable gaming PC, don't buy from a site that offers custom builds. They take a cut that you could easily avoid and charge you high prices for low-end components.

I just knocked together a build on Newegg for a low-mid range gaming PC that SHOULD let you play the neweest games on high settings (Because I know the computer you put together in the OP will definitely struggle).

I don't have a Newegg account, because I live in England, so I can't share the wishlist with you, which means copy-and-paste time!

COOLER MASTER Centurion 5 CAC-T05-UB Black /Blue Aluminum Bezel , SECC Chassis ATX Mid Tower Computer Case - Retail
Model #: CAC-T05-UB
Item #: N82E16811119047
$49.99

MSI 945P Neo5-F LGA 775 Intel 945P ATX Intel Motherboard - Retail
Model #: 945P Neo5-F
Item #: N82E16813130099
$69.99

PNY VCG88512GXPB G92 GeForce 8800GT 512MB 256-bit GDDR3 PCI Express 2.0 PureVideo HD Technology HDCP Ready SLI Supported Video Card - Retail
Model #: VCG88512GXPB
Item #: N82E16814133205
$269.99

Thermaltake Purepower W0100RU ATX 12V 2.0 500W Power Supply - Retail
Model #: W0100RU
Item #: N82E16817153052
$69.99

Intel Core 2 Duo E6300 Conroe 1.86GHz LGA 775 Processor Model BX80557E6300 - Retail
Model #: BX80557E6300
Item #: N82E16819115005
$171.99

Crucial 2GB (2 x 1GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 667 (PC2 5300) Dual Channel Kit Desktop Memory Model CT2KIT12864AA667 - Retail
Model #: CT2KIT12864AA667
Item #: N82E16820146526
$54.99

Western Digital Caviar SE WD1600AAJS 160GB 7200 RPM SATA 3.0Gb/s Hard Drive - OEM
Model #: WD1600AAJS
Item #: N82E16822136075
$49.99

LITE-ON 20X DVD±R DVD Burner Black IDE Model DH-20A4P-04 - OEM
Model #: DH-20A4P-04
Item #: N82E16827106228
$27.99

Total: $764.92 without shipping.

True, it's $164 more than your build, and it doesn't include a monitor (I don't know if yours did), but it uses decent quality components that WILL allow you to play newer games with ease (Especially that 8800GT) and won't give you much hassle (Don't know about that PSU I chose though. It's cheap, but it's CoolerMaster and it got good reviews on Newegg).

You're probably working on a budget, so this is more of a guideline build as to what you should be aiming for, more than a "Buy this or else you're screwed". I just don't recommend using any of the parts from your original list

variant

This is the chip you want:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819115014

50% overclock.

Whirlo

wow, thanks for the replies, i really appreciate it!

couple of questions, especially for centipeed (super helpful, i'll probably buy most if not all the things you listed):

Can I use the specs you listed but swap in my video card?

Foxconn FV-N79SM2D2-OC GeForce 7900GS 256MB 256-bit GDDR3 PCI Express
x16 SLI Supported Video Card

Because thats $150 cheaper right there. When you said you wouldn't recommend any of the parts I listed did you mean that video card too?

Also, how much speed do I lose dropping from 3.0 ghz to the 1.8?

Thanks again for the help!

corcorigan

Also, how much speed do I lose dropping from 3.0 ghz to the 1.8?

You gain a lot.

Centipeed

corcorigan wrote: »

Also, how much speed do I lose dropping from 3.0 ghz to the 1.8?

You gain a lot.

Yeah. Intel and AMD stopped putting so much importance on quoting GHz, because it doesn't matter any more. As you point out, the Intel D 930 is 3GHz, compared to the 1.8GHz on the Core 2 Duo, but the performance gain of the latter is substantial:

http://www23.tomshardware.com/cpu_2007.html?modelx=33&model1=879&model2=890&chart=425

The first red-highlighted processor on the chart is the one I recommended, and the second is the one you were thinking about buying. GHz don't really mean much these days.

Similarily, your choice of graphics card shows its weakness here:

http://www23.tomshardware.com/graphics_2007.html?modelx=33&model1=712&model2=778&chart=301

They haven't got the 8800GT on that chart because it's a new card, but I've compared your choice (7900GS) with the 8800GTS, which is a worse card than the 8800GT, or at least the closest to its performance. In the graphics card chart I just linked, the cards I compared are highlighted in BLUE this time around, not red like in the CPU chart.

Rook

Centipeed wrote: »

corcorigan wrote: »

Also, how much speed do I lose dropping from 3.0 ghz to the 1.8?

You gain a lot.

Yeah. Intel and AMD stopped putting so much importance on quoting GHz, because it doesn't matter any more. As you point out, the Intel D 930 is 3GHz, compared to the 1.8GHz on the Core 2 Duo, but the performance gain of the latter is substantial:

http://www23.tomshardware.com/cpu_2007.html?modelx=33&model1=879&model2=890&chart=425

The first red-highlighted processor on the chart is the one I recommended, and the second is the one you were thinking about buying. GHz don't really mean much these days.

Similarily, your choice of graphics card shows its weakness here:

http://www23.tomshardware.com/graphics_2007.html?modelx=33&model1=712&model2=778&chart=301

They haven't got the 8800GT on that chart because it's a new card, but I've compared your choice (7900GS) with the 8800GTS, which is a worse card than the 8800GT, or at least the closest to its performance. In the graphics card chart I just linked, the cards I compared are highlighted in BLUE this time around, not red like in the CPU chart.

The radeon 3870 might be a good choice in replacement as it should be cheaper than the 8800GT and at least available in stock. But the 7900GS is certainly a fine card to hold onto for the moment.

edit: I thought you meant you already had the 7900GS. It's not something you should actually be paying money for at this point.

Additionally, the E4500 is only $127 and I believe should be faster than a stock E6300. Otherwise, the E6550 is the same price, again much faster, although you'll have to buy a motherboard that supports 1333Mhz FSB, but on the plus side it's probably a little better to be futureproofed, and P35 mobos aren't exactly breaking the bank these days.

Whirlo

Thanks again guys for all the helpful tips!

I'm putting together my shopping cart on newegg right now...

Cronus

Whirlo wrote: »

Thanks again guys for all the helpful tips!

I'm putting together my shopping cart on newegg right now...

Don't forget to look for bundles of the things you are getting. I got a higher end processor than the one on my list because it was in a bundle with the video card I was getting for the same price as the video card and the proc on my list seperately. The newegg bundles can sometimes save you a few bucks or get you a better part.

Whirlo

How do I look for bundles once everythign is already in the cart?

Cronus

Whirlo wrote: »

How do I look for bundles once everythign is already in the cart?

The bundles are on each products page. So you can just click an item in your cart and go to it's page and check out the bundles in the bottom left. Also they only show a few bundles on the items page and some of the more popular items have more bundles than can fit on the page so be sure to click see all. Admittedly the ones on the items page are generally the only good ones, but it's worth checking.

imperial6

Hold everything, the 3800 series came out today, card here, review here. The 3850 costs $179 and will blow the 7900gs out of the water.

Whirlo

wow. yeah i'm goign with that one. Anything I need to worry about between the 3850 and all the other stuff Centipeed posted below? Right now I've got all the stuff Centipeed suggested and I'm going to throw the 3850 on top of that and call it a day.

For sound, i noticed that mobo has a few built in jacks for headphone. I'm no audiophile, most of the time i play music on my stereo and mute the games. Do i need a separate sound card?

gneGne

No, all motherboards have integrated sound these days.

Cronus

gneGne wrote: »

No, all motherboards have integrated sound these days.

You will want a sound card if you are going to be playing with anything better than normal stereo speakers or headphones. Creative and Turtle Beach are the two main sound card companies and they have good cards for under 90$. I don't know which card is the best deal and it depends on your sound setup.

gneGne

Not worth it, especially since he is on a budget. Creative soundcards had some shitty driver support with Vista, don't know how it is now, but Creative cards are more for gaming anyway.

Whirlo

I've got a copy of XP from an old laptop that i intend on using. Bad idea?

gneGne

No, not at all. Vista doesn't really add much, unless you're really into having DX10 graphics. Although.... you're getting a new computer, might as well get Vista I guess.

Conclusion: Doesn't really matter, although it will save you money if you keep XP.

Cronus

gneGne wrote: »

No, not at all. Vista doesn't really add much, unless you're really into having DX10 graphics. Although.... you're getting a new computer, might as well get Vista I guess.

Conclusion: Doesn't really matter, although it will save you money if you keep XP.

Especially given that you are getting a DX10 card you should go with Vista. I've been using Vista for a couple of months and am very happy with it. I still haven't used Media Center or Shadow Copy which I am waiting till I set up my PVR to use with. However since you are on a budget and you can get a free copy of XP I would go with that and upgrade to Vista when you can. On a side note, students can often get Microsoft software very cheap.

Centipeed

What is the price of the 3850 vs. the 8800GT. I saw some benchmarks and the performance was slightly less on the 3850, so I wondered if it had a low enough price to justify it?

imperial6

I think you mean 3870, as that's the one close to the 8800gt in performance, at about 15% less right now. The 3870 is $219, while the 8800gt is between $269 and 309. So about 20-25% cheaper.

corky842

Centipeed wrote: »

8800GTS, which is a worse card than the 8800GT

You're correct with the rest of your post, so this is just nit-picking. Nvidia's graphic card hierarchy goes:
Plain<GS<GT<GTS<GTX<Ultra

Centipeed

imperial6 wrote: »

I think you mean 3870, as that's the one close to the 8800gt in performance, at about 15% less right now. The 3870 is $219, while the 8800gt is between $269 and 309. So about 20-25% cheaper.

My bad. Yeah, I meant the 3870.

corky842 wrote: »

Centipeed wrote: »

8800GTS, which is a worse card than the 8800GT

You're correct with the rest of your post, so this is just nit-picking. Nvidia's graphic card hierarchy goes:
Plain<GS<GT<GTS<GTX<Ultra

When I wrote that post I was wondering if the GTS was worse than the GT because I remembered reading about people comparing the two. Maybe I should have looked it up again. Thanks for the correction though!

Rook

Centipeed wrote: »

imperial6 wrote: »

I think you mean 3870, as that's the one close to the 8800gt in performance, at about 15% less right now. The 3870 is $219, while the 8800gt is between $269 and 309. So about 20-25% cheaper.

My bad. Yeah, I meant the 3870.

corky842 wrote: »

Centipeed wrote: »

8800GTS, which is a worse card than the 8800GT

You're correct with the rest of your post, so this is just nit-picking. Nvidia's graphic card hierarchy goes:
Plain<GS<GT<GTS<GTX<Ultra

When I wrote that post I was wondering if the GTS was worse than the GT because I remembered reading about people comparing the two. Maybe I should have looked it up again. Thanks for the correction though!

The GTS is worse than the GT.

imperial6

Yeah the traditional heirarchy is broken until they release the "new" GTS based on the same chip as the new GT.

FreddyD

Cronus wrote: »

gneGne wrote: »

No, not at all. Vista doesn't really add much, unless you're really into having DX10 graphics. Although.... you're getting a new computer, might as well get Vista I guess.

Conclusion: Doesn't really matter, although it will save you money if you keep XP.

Especially given that you are getting a DX10 card you should go with Vista. I've been using Vista for a couple of months and am very happy with it. I still haven't used Media Center or Shadow Copy which I am waiting till I set up my PVR to use with. However since you are on a budget and you can get a free copy of XP I would go with that and upgrade to Vista when you can. On a side note, students can often get Microsoft software very cheap.

I got Vista for free and I still haven't used it. That should give you a good idea of what many PC gamers think of Vista right now. And if you should only skimp on the video card if you plan on gaming at lower resolutions. For example, if you game at 1024x768 (which looks ok on a CRT, btw) you could get by with almost anything.

On another note, they are practically giving away DDR2. I might have to buy a few sticks before the prices go up.

Chubby Bunny

Can someone explain to me why people choose other processors over the E6570? for just under $200 in newegg, it's a 2.66GHz Core 2 Duo. Even overclocking it 33% yields awesome results.

JWashke

imperial6 wrote: »

Yeah the traditional heirarchy is broken until they release the "new" GTS based on the same chip as the new GT.

This is correct, currently the GT is better than the GTS, until Nvidia releases the GTS with the 112 stream processors.

Heres a review and some benchmarks of the new GTS.
http://www.hardwarecanucks.com/forum/hardware-canucks-reviews/3173-evga-8800gts-640mb-w-112sps-ssc-edition-review.html

RomanPublicSpongeBath

AMD should be launching new processors and motherboards shortly (20th, IIRC). This may push processor/mobo pricing down a bit if you're able to wait a few more days.

Edit: Though I could have sworn I saw an article about this on AMD's site, upon going back to check the date it evades me, so take this with a grain of salt.

Whirlo

OK OK OK

I bought everything centipeed suggested and I got the video card that imperial suggested.

I was able to install everything fine, all the nuts and bolts look good (go me!). Booted it up into BIOS just fine. Only problem was that the DVD drive was not being detected, so I couldn't install windows.

Error message: Primary IDE Slave ATAPI Incompatible.

I changed the jumper from master to slave to the cable one and back again, nothing seems to help. It's a SATA harddrive and an IDE DVD-R.

Does anyone have any suggestions? I got so far only to be stopped

so sad

tsmvengy

If the DVD drive is the only IDE device you have, make sure the IDE cable is connected to the socket marked '1' on the motherboard (though your motherboard may only have 1 IDE connector) and make sure the Drive is plugged into the OTHER END of the IDE cable (not the connector in the middle of the cable.) Then set the drive jumper to master or cable select and let 'er rip.


EDIT: You do have the power cable plugged into the drive right?

Whirlo

Yeah its got power...I was able to open it and put the CD in. There's only one IDE controller and really only one way to plug it in period. I'm using the far end of the other IDE cord as well. I tried all three jumper settings.

Is it possible that my mobo doesn't support a primary SATA harddrive with a IDE dvd drive?

Centipeed

Return the board to whoever you bought it off and get a different model. That's the easiest solution after having looked around at people who have had this problem.