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CF Master Phalla Thread

13468979

Posts

  • GrundlterrorGrundlterror Registered User regular
    edited December 2007
    Thanks ardor :)

    Helpful as always.

    Grundlterror on
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  • DogDog Registered User, Administrator, Vanilla Staff admin
    edited December 2007
    figure out how many kills you're going to have, and then assume every kill goes through every night, how long is the game going to take? (should be roughly 8 or 9)

    from there you can figure out odds for with X kills, what is the chance a bad guy gets hit and figure out how many bad guys

    do the same for neutrals

    do the same for deciding how many specials

    Unknown User on
  • LocusLocus Trust Me AlbanyRegistered User regular
    edited December 2007
    robothero wrote: »
    figure out how many kills you're going to have, and then assume every kill goes through every night, how long is the game going to take? (should be roughly 8 or 9)
    I actually think the number of days should be closer to 6 or 7 if every kill goes through, unless you're intending your game to run 10 days minimum, which I personally think should be closer to the maximum. Because unless you're running a basic game, you know there will be successful guards, inattentive (or dead) vigilantes, or overlapping kills.

    Locus on
  • DogDog Registered User, Administrator, Vanilla Staff admin
    edited December 2007
    Sorry yeah, I'm trying to post quickly at work and meant to say that the game should be balanced for like 9 days, but you want to assume much less if every kill goes through.

    I balanced Belarus for 4 days and it went 5, so yeah.

    Unknown User on
  • ArdorArdor Registered User regular
    edited December 2007
    Just to increase awareness and hopefully participation, MrBlarney, Plutonium and I got permission to run Phalla Royale 2 the SE++ version in SE++.

    We may start as early as next week or wait until after the holidays here, but we will post a link to the sign-up thread in here because we aren't proud. Well, I'm not, but you all know that.

    Ardor on
  • OatsOats Registered User regular
    edited December 2007
    Anyone who's run a Phalla have any comments on my proposed mechanics? Would the addition of gambling drive me insane?

    Oats on
  • cj iwakuracj iwakura The Rhythm Regent Chantry of NightmaresRegistered User regular
    edited December 2007
    I think adding mechanics like gambling that encourage(and reward) participation can only be a good thing.

    As for the film stuff(my memory's kind of vague on the movie, but):
    Would Slevin(Josh Hartnett's character?)'s objective be to kill the two mob bosses, and maybe get more kills if he does? Something like that.

    I see Goodkat as being a rogue vigilante. Having the two mobs as separate factions around that cause mayhem should be fun, too.

    cj iwakura on
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    Well, good morning. Welcome to the new scenario. What should we do today?
  • OatsOats Registered User regular
    edited December 2007
    cj iwakura wrote: »
    I think adding mechanics like gambling that encourage(and reward) participation can only be a good thing.

    As for the film stuff(my memory's kind of vague on the movie, but):
    Would Slevin(Josh Hartnett's character?)'s objective be to kill the two mob bosses, and maybe get more kills if he does? Something like that.

    I see Goodkat as being a rogue vigilante. Having the two mobs as separate factions around that cause mayhem should be fun, too.

    I definitely plan on doing the gambling, since it was something of a (minor) theme in the movie.
    Slevin (yeah, he was played by Hartnett) and Goodkat both wanted to kill the Mob Bosses in the movie. Goodkat for unstated reasons, but maybe he got soft in his old age and wanted to get the kid some justice.

    Having Slevin and Goodkat not on the same team would make things interesting, though. If the Phalla had, say 60 people, 1 Slevin, 1 Goodkat, 1 The Boss, 1 The Rabbi, 1 Head Detective leaves 55 to "normal" roles. I don't think I'd have any village, so that'd be 55 roles split 3 ways, with the cops being slightly smaller but maybe a guardian or two to make up for it? Kills/"jailings" for the mobs/cops based on population.

    Make the Head Detective a seer/vig combo. Make the mob bosses unkillable until Day 2 or 3 (or a double kill before then). Give Slevin extra kills when the bosses are dead. Make Goodkat elusive, or role-obscure his kills? There isn't much on him.

    Give mobs some power to swipe money or rig the bets slightly.

    Oats on
  • thorgotthorgot Registered User regular
    edited December 2007
    Helpful Tips for Creating Your Game

    Numbers
    Unfortunately, there are no hard numbers, especially with complicated games with multiple power roles. Here are some numbers which will help a little in making your game balanced.
    • In a single-family game, the mafia should be 15%-25% of the players.
    • If you add opposed mafia factions, keep in mind that there will be lots and lots of crossfire. Making 25%-35% of players mafia is a good idea.
    • There should be roughly one power role per one mafia.
    • Try to aim for a minimum of 6-7 (or 3-4 for a mini) days, assuming every kill works perfectly. Since some kills will undoubtedly overlap or be stopped, the game will end up taking more time.
    • Make sure the game won't take longer than 12 days, unless you're absolutely sure players will still be interested.

    General tips
    1. Do simple simulations, only paying attention to kills, to make sure the game won't last more than a week or two.
    2. Avoid guardians in small games. Avoid guardians who can guard themselves to perfection.
    3. Search your game for game-breaking strategies. If you don't find them, someone playing will.
    4. Experimentation is all well and good, but with the year-long waitlist, you should probably try out your more radical ideas in a mini.
    5. Make it fun and reasonable for everybody.

    General tips
    • Do simple simulations, only paying attention to kills, to make sure the game won't last more than a week or two.
    • Try new angles on old roles, or new roles altogether.
    • Search your game for game-breaking strategies. If you don't find them, someone playing will.
    • Experimentation is all well and good, but with the year-long waitlist, you should probably try out your more radical ideas in a mini.
    • Make it fun and reasonable for everybody.

    Mechanics tips
    1. Guardian
      • Avoid guardians in small games.
      • Avoid guardians who can guard themselves to perfection, because that leads to an invincible network mouthpiece.
    2. Conversion
      • Conversion can be frustrating for the converted, because it forces them to betray people they have been working with.
      • Conversion can be a powerful tool to deter networks, though, even if it only exists in tiny quantities.
    3. Random Number Generator
      • Randomness adds unpredictability. If you want your players to know that x will happen if they do y, and they don't have to worry about some silly random number, don't use it.
      • On the other hand, it can create more excitement by <INSERT REASON HERE>

    Thanks for ideas from robothero and Ardor. If you have anything to add or disagree with, feel free. I don't want this to be my opinions, I want it to be something people can go to when they are getting started with creating their first game.

    thorgot on
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  • OatsOats Registered User regular
    edited December 2007
    You've got your general tips up there twice.

    Oats on
  • thorgotthorgot Registered User regular
    edited December 2007
    Oatway wrote: »
    You've got your general tips up there twice.

    You are welcome to your opinion.

    thorgot on
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  • LocusLocus Trust Me AlbanyRegistered User regular
    edited December 2007
    thorgot, do you think you can add links to games that did one thing or another particularly well or poorly?

    For example, Rend's Star Trek mini could be used as an example of RNG gone horribly awry, while Hylianbunny's Eternal Darkness phalla could be a good example of proper balance.

    Locus on
  • ArdorArdor Registered User regular
    edited December 2007
    I'm shameless, but I wanted to note that sign ups for Phalla Royale II will go up sometime on Saturday in SE++. For those who don't go there much or at all, I'll make sure to link the thread to here.

    Ardor on
  • cj iwakuracj iwakura The Rhythm Regent Chantry of NightmaresRegistered User regular
    edited December 2007
    Have you secured the manga rights yet?

    cj iwakura on
    9LlOwgn.png
    Well, good morning. Welcome to the new scenario. What should we do today?
  • ArdorArdor Registered User regular
    edited December 2007
    cj iwakura wrote: »
    Have you secured the manga rights yet?

    I'm not entirely sure I have enough sanity to handle it. You should ask MrBlarney.

    Ardor on
  • thorgotthorgot Registered User regular
    edited December 2007
    Locus wrote: »
    thorgot, do you think you can add links to games that did one thing or another particularly well or poorly?

    For example, Rend's Star Trek mini could be used as an example of RNG gone horribly awry, while Hylianbunny's Eternal Darkness phalla could be a good example of proper balance.

    That seems like a good idea. Do you have any other examples?

    thorgot on
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  • DogDog Registered User, Administrator, Vanilla Staff admin
    edited December 2007
    Bidding Mechanics in Robot Fighting Phalla did not work as intended.

    Unknown User on
  • PsychoLarry1PsychoLarry1 Registered User regular
    edited December 2007
    Meat Shields vs. Kills worked out very much in the Meat Shield's favor in Phallopolis.

    PsychoLarry1 on
  • cj iwakuracj iwakura The Rhythm Regent Chantry of NightmaresRegistered User regular
    edited December 2007
    The experimental 'boredom' mechanics in TPoHS wound up not being used at all, since the evils turned out being way underpowered(and early crossfire cut them back by a third).

    cj iwakura on
    9LlOwgn.png
    Well, good morning. Welcome to the new scenario. What should we do today?
  • SmasherSmasher Starting to get dizzy Registered User regular
    edited December 2007
    Locus wrote: »
    thorgot, do you think you can add links to games that did one thing or another particularly well or poorly?

    For example, Rend's Star Trek mini could be used as an example of RNG gone horribly awry, while Hylianbunny's Eternal Darkness phalla could be a good example of proper balance.

    I'm curious, what happened in the Star Trek game briefly?

    Smasher on
  • LocusLocus Trust Me AlbanyRegistered User regular
    edited December 2007
    Smasher wrote: »
    Locus wrote: »
    thorgot, do you think you can add links to games that did one thing or another particularly well or poorly?

    For example, Rend's Star Trek mini could be used as an example of RNG gone horribly awry, while Hylianbunny's Eternal Darkness phalla could be a good example of proper balance.

    I'm curious, what happened in the Star Trek game briefly?
    The game had two votes per day: the red vote, which did what you expect it to do, and the lime vote, which protected someone (even from the red vote). Someone was protected every night with the vote, but your chance of being protected was proportional to the number of votes you got. If you had 66% of the lime vote, you had a 66% chance of being protected.

    Around day three or so the two dominant factions, the Ferengi and the Romulans, both had a general idea of who was on what team. As a result, the protection each night basically came down to a 50/50 chance for one member of each team, both of whom was also being red-voted. Essentially, the game was decided by the RNG.

    Locus on
  • RendRend Registered User regular
    edited December 2007
    Locus wrote: »
    Smasher wrote: »
    Locus wrote: »
    thorgot, do you think you can add links to games that did one thing or another particularly well or poorly?

    For example, Rend's Star Trek mini could be used as an example of RNG gone horribly awry, while Hylianbunny's Eternal Darkness phalla could be a good example of proper balance.

    I'm curious, what happened in the Star Trek game briefly?
    The game had two votes per day: the red vote, which did what you expect it to do, and the lime vote, which protected someone (even from the red vote). Someone was protected every night with the vote, but your chance of being protected was proportional to the number of votes you got. If you had 66% of the lime vote, you had a 66% chance of being protected.

    Around day three or so the two dominant factions, the Ferengi and the Romulans, both had a general idea of who was on what team. As a result, the protection each night basically came down to a 50/50 chance for one member of each team, both of whom was also being red-voted. Essentially, the game was decided by the RNG.

    Pretty much. I horribly underestimated the power of the green vote in that circumstance. It possibly would have worked better if the teams had not known each other from the get go, but that was definitely a situation where RNG was taken way out of hand.

    Sorry about that... :/

    Rend on
  • InfidelInfidel Heretic Registered User regular
    edited December 2007
    And us Ferengi won! mwuahahaha

    Never gamble with the Ferengi. 8-)

    But yeah, I suggested that mechanic was fail.

    Infidel on
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  • RendRend Registered User regular
    edited December 2007
    Hey, at least I provided a great example of what DEFINITELY not to do.

    But, i mean, the whole faction ally/enemy thing was pretty cool, eh? Right, guys...?

    Rend on
  • InfidelInfidel Heretic Registered User regular
    edited December 2007
    The lime vote aside it was a pretty good game.

    Infidel on
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  • thorgotthorgot Registered User regular
    edited December 2007
    Also, the greatest thing about running a phalla is being terrified every time you send a PM out because you're worried you might have just sent it to the wrong person.

    The worst part is that this is true even if you double or triple check things. And that there is no good way to correct one of these mistakes if you make one.

    thorgot on
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  • HylianbunnyHylianbunny Registered User regular
    edited December 2007
    thorgot wrote: »
    Also, the greatest thing about running a phalla is being terrified every time you send a PM out because you're worried you might have just sent it to the wrong person.

    The worst part is that this is true even if you double or triple check things. And that there is no good way to correct one of these mistakes if you make one.

    The worst part is when you check it about eight or nine times, and yet still send it to the wrong person. :|

    Hylianbunny on
  • InfidelInfidel Heretic Registered User regular
    edited December 2007
    thorgot wrote: »
    Also, the greatest thing about running a phalla is being terrified every time you send a PM out because you're worried you might have just sent it to the wrong person.

    The worst part is that this is true even if you double or triple check things. And that there is no good way to correct one of these mistakes if you make one.

    The worst part is when you check it about eight or nine times, and yet still send it to the wrong person. :|

    Hold me. D:

    Yeah, working as a host is way worse in this regard than being a bad guy. Bad guys can use boards for just about everything, and it's the first thing I do when I have allies good or bad, set up a board. As a host you have to use PMs and lots of em, and somehow they're so easy to flub.

    Not as stressful or easy to do but "oops, revealed a bad guy in the narration when he didn't die" D:

    And everyone thought being host was glamourous! ;-)

    Infidel on
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  • RendRend Registered User regular
    edited December 2007
    yeah... when I ran ST:V i was terrified EVERY PM I SENT.

    Rend on
  • HylianbunnyHylianbunny Registered User regular
    edited December 2007
    I mean, don't get me wrong. I still enjoy being a host more than a player. But the stress of mis-sends...yipes.

    Hylianbunny on
  • InfidelInfidel Heretic Registered User regular
    edited December 2007
    What PM did you flub on out of curiosity? :D What were the names that mixed ya up?

    Infidel on
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  • GrundlterrorGrundlterror Registered User regular
    edited December 2007
    Thanks, this is making me really comfortable about running mine :P

    Grundlterror on
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  • RendRend Registered User regular
    edited December 2007
    Thanks, this is making me really comfortable about running mine :P

    Whatever you do, DONT send out role PMs.

    This is advice from one who has run a game before.

    Rend on
  • PsychoLarry1PsychoLarry1 Registered User regular
    edited December 2007
    1. That quote should be added to the OP

    2. I have apparently revealed a central truth about running phallas without realizing it.

    3. One of the more computer savvy members of the board should design a macro to avoid bad PMs.

    PsychoLarry1 on
  • cj iwakuracj iwakura The Rhythm Regent Chantry of NightmaresRegistered User regular
    edited December 2007
    Or just as bad, sending PMs to the right people with the wrong content.

    cj iwakura on
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    Well, good morning. Welcome to the new scenario. What should we do today?
  • GrundlterrorGrundlterror Registered User regular
    edited December 2007
    I'll just make sure to get really drunk before I start sending the PMs out.

    Grundlterror on
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  • InfidelInfidel Heretic Registered User regular
    edited December 2007
    HAVE FUN GRUNDL <3 <3 <3

    Infidel on
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  • cj iwakuracj iwakura The Rhythm Regent Chantry of NightmaresRegistered User regular
    edited December 2007
    'Drunk Phalla: what the GM sends you may not actually be your role.'

    cj iwakura on
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    Well, good morning. Welcome to the new scenario. What should we do today?
  • MrBlarneyMrBlarney Registered User regular
    edited December 2007
    cj iwakura wrote: »
    'Drunk Phalla: what the GM sends you may not actually be your role.'

    I like the idea of that kind of mechanic. PM the host with a target player. Who knows what it'll do?

    Yeah, PMs are tricky business when you're host. With Set Phalla, I had to be careful about making sure the seers got the right information and no more information than they were supposed to have. And Phalla Royale... that was an incredible mess of actions, items, locations. Ardor and I messed up a few times in that game.

    Oh man, Phalla Royale II is not gonna be pretty.

    MrBlarney on
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  • InfidelInfidel Heretic Registered User regular
    edited December 2007
    What should my theme be for my game? It's a ways off but I've been thinking about it. Open to some suggestions.

    Infidel on
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