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Booster Gold: The retcon you've never heard of!

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    SquashuaSquashua __BANNED USERS regular
    edited January 2008
    It's been announced that Geoff is officially on Flash, so Flash it probably is.

    Squashua on
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    BlankspaceBlankspace __BANNED USERS regular
    edited January 2008
    Er

    it's been announced that Johns is on a Flash mini, not the main title.

    Blankspace on
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    Bloods EndBloods End Blade of Tyshalle Punch dimensionRegistered User regular
    edited January 2008
    He's on a Rogue mini. Not on Flash.

    Bloods End on
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    Bad KarmaBad Karma Registered User regular
    edited January 2008
    Squashua wrote: »
    It's been announced that Geoff is officially on Flash, so Flash it probably is.

    Tom Peyer is the new writer for Flash.

    Bad Karma on
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    SquashuaSquashua __BANNED USERS regular
    edited January 2008
    Well, whatever it is, it's Flash related.

    I'm not his employer, so I don't really give a shit what he writes.

    Squashua on
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    MunchMunch Registered User regular
    edited January 2008
    I find it incredibly unlikely Johns and Kolins aren't gearing up for a lengthy run on Flash. Kolins, who's just come back to DC after leaving Marvel, is known for enjoying long runs on books. Part of the reason he left Marvel is that he kept getting bounced around from assignment to assignment. Plus, I doubt he's going to all the trouble of redesigning several Rogues just to leave the book a short time later. Then Johns has stated he's clearing his plate for '08, meaning he's definitely got something longterm planned that's going to take up a lot of time. Look at the interview Johns and Kolins did for the Rogue mini. The way they're talking, they sound like they've got some longterm plans. Plus, Flash's sales have been dropping like a rock, and Peyer definitely doesn't have the kind of star power necessary to save it. Peyer's also been evasive when asked how long he'll be on the book.

    All this would lead me to believe DC's gearing up to bring back one of the most celebrated Flash creative teams in recent history in order to revitalize the character. They'd be dumb not to.

    Munch on
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    AlgertmanAlgertman Registered User regular
    edited January 2008
    Is he gonna write 5 books? I don't see him leaving GL, JSA or Action.

    Algertman on
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    FuruFuru Registered User regular
    edited January 2008
    I'm pretty sure it would take some kind of horrific injury to get him off GL.

    Furu on
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    DJ EebsDJ Eebs Moderator, Administrator admin
    edited January 2008
    You know, I can't really fathom how DC hasn't come up with a steady team on Flash yet. He's probably one of their most recognizable heroes outside of the big three and they went from the guys who wrote the TV show to Mark Guggenheim and then to Mark Waid for a little bit and then to this new guy who I haven't heard of before.

    Speaking of which, what has the new guy done before? Because it's possible he's awesome I guess.

    DJ Eebs on
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    MunchMunch Registered User regular
    edited January 2008
    Speaking of which, what has the new guy done before? Because it's possible he's awesome I guess.

    The '90s Hourman series is probably his most famous work. It was extremely well-written, and had a lot of themes dealing with legacy, family, and trippy science stuff. Which makes him perfect for writing the current incarnation of the Flash. I just don't think he's a big enough name right now to make the character a star again. Last I checked, Flash is only moving a few thousand issues more than Booster Gold. DC can't be happy with that, since he's one of their flagship characters.

    Munch on
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    Rabid_LlamaRabid_Llama Registered User regular
    edited January 2008
    God damn it, my store doesn't have 5 or 6. It forced me into subscribing =(

    Rabid_Llama on
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    SquashuaSquashua __BANNED USERS regular
    edited January 2008
    Munch wrote: »
    Speaking of which, what has the new guy done before? Because it's possible he's awesome I guess.

    The '90s Hourman series is probably his most famous work.

    Coincidentally, I'm selling nearly the entire series right now on eBay. With Chronos to boot, for $.99 + shipping. In very good condition.

    I might read the Flash if this guy does it.

    Squashua on
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    Sars_BoySars_Boy Rest, You Are The Lightning. Registered User regular
    edited January 2008
    Squashua wrote: »
    Munch wrote: »
    Speaking of which, what has the new guy done before? Because it's possible he's awesome I guess.

    The '90s Hourman series is probably his most famous work.

    Coincidentally, I'm selling nearly the entire series right now on eBay. With Chronos to boot, for $.99 + shipping. In very good condition.

    I might read the Flash if this guy does it.
    anyway you'd let me buy that out?

    Sars_Boy on
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    BriareosBriareos Registered User regular
    edited January 2008
    Munch wrote: »
    Speaking of which, what has the new guy done before? Because it's possible he's awesome I guess.

    The '90s Hourman series is probably his most famous work. It was extremely well-written, and had a lot of themes dealing with legacy, family, and trippy science stuff. Which makes him perfect for writing the current incarnation of the Flash. I just don't think he's a big enough name right now to make the character a star again. Last I checked, Flash is only moving a few thousand issues more than Booster Gold. DC can't be happy with that, since he's one of their flagship characters.

    I almost dropped Flash before the end of this current arc, but then I read the final part of OMD, decided "Fuck Marvel," and subscribed to every single major hero book DC has plus Booster Gold and Midnighter while dropping all my Marvel subscriptions except Daredevil, Iron Fist, and Astonishing X-Men (at least through the next issue, that is).

    Briareos on
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    BalefuegoBalefuego Registered User regular
    edited January 2008
    Algertman wrote: »
    Is he gonna write 5 books? I don't see him leaving GL, JSA or Action.

    He's leaving Booster

    Balefuego on
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
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    Sars_BoySars_Boy Rest, You Are The Lightning. Registered User regular
    edited January 2008
    So I'm guessing we get ted for the next five issues

    and then he has to go back because of time magics

    Sars_Boy on
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    AlgertmanAlgertman Registered User regular
    edited January 2008
    Balefuego wrote: »
    Algertman wrote: »
    Is he gonna write 5 books? I don't see him leaving GL, JSA or Action.

    He's leaving Booster
    well yeah

    he said it himself Booster was only temporary

    Algertman on
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    Unco-ordinatedUnco-ordinated NZRegistered User regular
    edited January 2008
    Briareos wrote: »
    Munch wrote: »
    Speaking of which, what has the new guy done before? Because it's possible he's awesome I guess.

    The '90s Hourman series is probably his most famous work. It was extremely well-written, and had a lot of themes dealing with legacy, family, and trippy science stuff. Which makes him perfect for writing the current incarnation of the Flash. I just don't think he's a big enough name right now to make the character a star again. Last I checked, Flash is only moving a few thousand issues more than Booster Gold. DC can't be happy with that, since he's one of their flagship characters.

    I almost dropped Flash before the end of this current arc, but then I read the final part of OMD, decided "Fuck Marvel," and subscribed to every single major hero book DC has plus Booster Gold and Midnighter while dropping all my Marvel subscriptions except Daredevil, Iron Fist, and Astonishing X-Men (at least through the next issue, that is).

    Do you get Blue Beetle? Because if you don't, you should. While I like Flash, Blue Beetle is much, MUCH better. Oh and funnily enough, my favourite parts of the Flash for the past few issues is the back-up story, which is written by John Rogers (who also writes Blue Beetle). :lol:

    Unco-ordinated on
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    DharmaBumDharmaBum Registered User regular
    edited January 2008
    Algertman wrote: »
    Balefuego wrote: »
    Algertman wrote: »
    Is he gonna write 5 books? I don't see him leaving GL, JSA or Action.

    He's leaving Booster
    well yeah

    he said it himself Booster was only temporary

    Is Booster only a temporary series, or is Johns' run just temporary?

    DharmaBum on
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    Garlic BreadGarlic Bread i'm a bitch i'm a bitch i'm a bitch i'm a Registered User, Disagreeable regular
    edited January 2008
    DharmaBum wrote: »
    Algertman wrote: »
    Balefuego wrote: »
    Algertman wrote: »
    Is he gonna write 5 books? I don't see him leaving GL, JSA or Action.

    He's leaving Booster
    well yeah

    he said it himself Booster was only temporary

    Is Booster only a temporary series, or is Johns' run just temporary?

    johns

    Garlic Bread on
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    MunchMunch Registered User regular
    edited January 2008
    Sars_Boy wrote: »
    So I'm guessing we get ted for the next five issues

    and then he has to go back because of time magics

    Yeah, right now it seems like it's gearing up for a combo of Rip is right + future Beetle's a shady character + Ted you've gotta die to save the world.

    I'd still love to see a swerve that's the exact opposite though.

    "Oh wow Rip, turns out you were just being a paranoid dick! And future Beetle's book says How to Cook For Humans! Ted, turns out you can stay after all!"

    Know what I'm looking forward to most about this arc? Getting more character development for Max. He never really had his motives expanded on before he was killed. Maybe Johns and Katz can make his turn to the dark side less retarded.

    Munch on
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    SalmonOfDoubtSalmonOfDoubt Registered User regular
    edited January 2008
    Munch wrote: »
    Know what I'm looking forward to most about this arc? Getting more character development for Max. He never really had his motives expanded on before he was killed. Maybe Johns and Katz can make his turn to the dark side less retarded.

    What motives? He didn't have any! The closest thing he had to a motive was "SB-Prime punched, and now I must destroy heroes with cyborgs! Hooray!"

    SalmonOfDoubt on
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    PiptheFair wrote: »
    killing children would be hilarious
    Olivaw wrote: »
    HELLO AND WELCOME TO THE PENNY ARCADE FORUMS

    PLEASE ENJOY YOUR STAY

    AND THIS PENIS
    Man, I don't want to read about this lady's broken vagina.
    NotACrook wrote: »
    I am sitting here trying to come up with a tiered system for rating child molesters.
    cock vore is fuckin hilarious
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    MunchMunch Registered User regular
    edited January 2008
    Well, he had that whole, "Regular humans must retake the world!" thing going on. Which I loved, because it seemed like Beetle was the speaking for the reader when he found out and said, "But you're metahuman!" It was like the writers didn't even want to bother trying to make sense of it and just said, "Look, that's his motivation and we know it doesn't make sense, but that's what editorial said to do, and everyone that matters in this story will be dead before we have to address the issue so shut up."

    Munch on
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    DharmaBumDharmaBum Registered User regular
    edited January 2008
    I sort of like the idea of Ted staying around to help Booster kick ass through time, but no one in the present can know that he is alive. It makes it sort of interesting.

    I just have a quick question about Ted dying/not dying. I never read that crossover so correct me if I am wrong. But does Ted not dying and have Lord know that sort of throw off the story?

    DharmaBum on
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    MunchMunch Registered User regular
    edited January 2008
    Not really.

    Ted's death really didn't impact much. He basically went to all the superheroes he could trying to get some help in his investigation, got rebuffed by everyone, went to the Checkmate castle, saw Max's superhero files, saw Max's superhero files get deleted by Alexander Luthor, tried to escape, beat up Sasha Bordeaux, got beat up by an OMAC, refused Max's offer to join him, got shot in the head, had his body incinerated, and later had his goggles sent to Batman by Sasha. Batman, Wonder Woman, Superman, Booster Gold, and the remnants of JLI/JLE later attacked Checkmate castle, the Trinity doing so to follow up on Batman's investigation (which he'd been conducting before being alerted by Ted), and the JLI/E gang doing so to avenge Beetle.

    Immediate effects of Beetle not dying: Rocket Red 5 doesn't get killed, Fire isn't injured in the OMAC battle, Sasha may not have a change of heart about Checkmate/stay in the organization to atone for Beetle's death, and Booster may not have gone back to the future in shame, where he'd get Skeets and return during Infinite Crisis to help stop the OMACs and Brother Eye.

    Ironically, the biggest barrier to Beetle's resurrection is Booster himself. Beetle's death galvanized him into being the kind of hero that would tackle threats like Brother Eye and Mister Mind, and without Beetle's death, he may not have done the universe-shaking things he did. Of course, time travel kind of complicates all that. If past Booster still assumed Ted was dead, in the absence of bloodied goggles/Batman saying he was, and Ted was kept hidden up through Infinite Crisis and 52, then things might still play out in a similar way.

    Munch on
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    übergeekübergeek Sector 2814Registered User regular
    edited January 2008
    All I feel i need to say is that if they kill -Ted- again.......I'm doing something stupid. Like not reading GL anymore kind of stupid.

    Rip is not right, his entire argument hinges on Time itself picking sides and siding with ecil. If a badguy makes a change and the hero doesn't stop it, it's permanent. If a hero changes something, he can try all he wants, but will fail to make the change every time. Time itself cannot divine intent of an action and has no consciousness (at least none that has been shown) so it can't tell between good or bad. So either the badguys would fail all the time without Booster needing to intervene, or Booster and anyone else can amke any change at any time, and the only way to return to status quo is another party intervening.

    According to Rip's own rules, they should not have been able to save Ted under -any- circumstance, because supposedly he -must- die and they'd fail every time. Since they succeeded, his understanding of time is flawed in some way, or he is full of it. According to the rules he hismelf set, Ted does not need to die a second time. He simply needs to return to a time after some point in Countdown to avoid messing up the way things went, for the most part.

    or Ted lives because

    "It's magic, We don't have to explain anything."

    Either way, this is a step in the right direction after the ridiculous trend of just killing heroes one after the other for the past few years to try and bring something to stories (like killing Question, when they could have made it Question & Answer like most of the planet suggested the -very moment- they mentioned cancer and the idea of him being killed off was implied. They had months to tweak that storyline in that direction, but just plodded through because they thought they knew better, and reality shows they didn't).


    Wow sorry for that tangent at the end. It just disappoints me when they've run out of ideas and go "Let's kill somebody! 'Who?' " I don't care anyone!". Queston didnt have to die, they admitted they killed Bart jsut because they felt like it. Even less notable heroes like Marvel's Black Goliath got killed, and Richards, Pym and Stark weren't held accountable for his death.

    übergeek on
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    SquashuaSquashua __BANNED USERS regular
    edited January 2008
    This is why I hate time travel stories in my Sci-Fi.

    No one ever uses it properly and it ends up being a crutch/deux-ex-machina.

    This is what ticked me off with Star Trek: Enterprise. Right off the bat, TIME TRAVEL.

    Squashua on
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    RansRans Registered User regular
    edited January 2008
    Munch wrote: »
    Not really.

    Ted's death really didn't impact much. He basically went to all the superheroes he could trying to get some help in his investigation, got rebuffed by everyone, went to the Checkmate castle, saw Max's superhero files, saw Max's superhero files get deleted by Alexander Luthor, tried to escape, beat up Sasha Bordeaux, got beat up by an OMAC, refused Max's offer to join him, got shot in the head, had his body incinerated, and later had his goggles sent to Batman by Sasha. Batman, Wonder Woman, Superman, Booster Gold, and the remnants of JLI/JLE later attacked Checkmate castle, the Trinity doing so to follow up on Batman's investigation (which he'd been conducting before being alerted by Ted), and the JLI/E gang doing so to avenge Beetle.

    Immediate effects of Beetle not dying: Rocket Red 5 doesn't get killed, Fire isn't injured in the OMAC battle, Sasha may not have a change of heart about Checkmate/stay in the organization to atone for Beetle's death, and Booster may not have gone back to the future in shame, where he'd get Skeets and return during Infinite Crisis to help stop the OMACs and Brother Eye.

    Ironically, the biggest barrier to Beetle's resurrection is Booster himself. Beetle's death galvanized him into being the kind of hero that would tackle threats like Brother Eye and Mister Mind, and without Beetle's death, he may not have done the universe-shaking things he did. Of course, time travel kind of complicates all that. If past Booster still assumed Ted was dead, in the absence of bloodied goggles/Batman saying he was, and Ted was kept hidden up through Infinite Crisis and 52, then things might still play out in a similar way.

    And wouldn't this have further screwed up 52? No Skeets in the present means no Skeets getting infested by evil Mr. Mind which means no Multiverse with history-holes chewed in it.

    edit: Which means no Monitors becoming individualized, no search for Ray Palmer, no Monarch hiding out in the bleed thinking evil thoughts, no anything having to do with Countdown.

    Which, on some days, that might not be a bad thing

    Rans on
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    DharmaBumDharmaBum Registered User regular
    edited January 2008
    Geeze....

    Don't get me wrong I love Booster Gold. But time travel in a story that has to be integrated into a wider universe always fucks everything up and leaves massive plot holes.

    DharmaBum on
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    TachTach Registered User regular
    edited January 2008
    I thought Future Beetle said that the current timeline would be un-altered, and everyone would still believe Ted was killed?

    So- no continuity errors yet.

    Tach on
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    JordynJordyn Really, Commander? Probing Uranus. Registered User regular
    edited January 2008
    Uh, I think the goal is for it to not change it anything.

    Before, they just found Ted's goggles.

    Now they're gonna find Booster's remarkably similar goggles.

    Jordyn on
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    TachTach Registered User regular
    edited January 2008
    Hadn't thought of that. Interesting idea.

    Tach on
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    JordynJordyn Really, Commander? Probing Uranus. Registered User regular
    edited January 2008
    do you guys even read these books

    Jordyn on
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    Bad KarmaBad Karma Registered User regular
    edited January 2008
    Clearly the only solution to this nonexistent problem is to cancel the book.

    Bad Karma on
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    übergeekübergeek Sector 2814Registered User regular
    edited January 2008
    As mentioned before, as long as Ted being alive doesn't get revealed to the rest of the multiverse until after Booster saved existence twice, he could pop back up and go "No, Booster time traveled and saved me, but if we told you the future would have changed. Sorry about that, also, you guys were being dicks so I wasn't inclined to make you feel less guilty."

    Also as Munch stated, his death didn't impact much of anything on a huge level except Booster. Booster in that time period still goes on thinking Ted died, to go on to complete his part in the semi time loop by saving him.

    übergeek on
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    SquashuaSquashua __BANNED USERS regular
    edited January 2008
    I was going to say that the problem with saving Ted Kord is that it invalidates Sacrifice; the whole "Wonder Woman Kills Max Lord" thing, but then I recalled that she killed Max Lord because he was controlling Superman, not because he killed Ted Kord.

    It does somewhat change the motivations of whasserface who now runs checkmate and is half-Omac, b/c I think she became inspired by Ted's death in her near-presence.

    Squashua on
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    FuruFuru Registered User regular
    edited January 2008
    Guys, if you think Ted's sticking around you're probably doing a remarkable job of deluding yourselves.

    Furu on
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    Desktop HippieDesktop Hippie Registered User regular
    edited January 2008
    Furu wrote: »
    Guys, if you think Ted's sticking around you're probably doing a remarkable job of deluding yourselves.
    I don't know. It seems an extra level of unkind to bring the guy back just to kill him off again and make sure we all get the message. Plus his fanbase has proved vocal and dedicated. Even the new Blue Beetle series mentions how awesome Ted was on a regular basis. Seems a good enough reason to keep him around this time.

    Desktop Hippie on
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    SquashuaSquashua __BANNED USERS regular
    edited January 2008
    It was pretty cool when he came back during Manhunter.

    Squashua on
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    LuxLux Registered User regular
    edited January 2008
    Furu wrote: »
    Guys, if you think Ted's sticking around you're probably doing a remarkable job of deluding yourselves.
    I don't know. It seems an extra level of unkind to bring the guy back just to kill him off again and make sure we all get the message. Plus his fanbase has proved vocal and dedicated. Even the new Blue Beetle series mentions how awesome Ted was on a regular basis. Seems a good enough reason to keep him around this time.

    The only reason people think Ted's going to be taken away again is just because normal storytelling tropes tell us that Future Beetle is probably a bad guy and that Rip is probably going to be ultimately correct. But there's no reason we have to follow that expected route. Rip could end up being a bad guy if they really wanted to throw a twist on that story.

    Lux on
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