When did blogs suddenly become equivalent to taking a microphone and WHINING RIGHT IN YOUR EARS because it seems nowadays everyone loves to take offense to what people post in their own little section of the Internet.
It's fine if you don't like the game, but why should the designer behind it not be able to vent his own frustrations? It's not as if he actually posted here saying everyone who bought Frogger and not his awesome creation is a douchebag, he just lamented about it on his own blog.
Sure he "lamented" about it on his own blog, but his lamentations amounted to him basically insulting everybody who plays games, calling them stupid for not appreciating his "creativity" and "originality."
Jeff Minter has neither and he should be more than thankful that people have for so long confused "1970's psychedelic" with "original style." Space Giraffe is essentially Tempest 3000, and he's lucky anybody bothered to buy a game that subsists wholly on nostalgia for a Jaguar port of an early 80's arcade game.
Something written on a blog for public consumption is essentially a press release ... though for most people it's a press release that nobody gives two shits about. I'm not going to say that he doesn't have the right or even that he shouldn't ... but if the consequence is that people get mad then he has to live with it.
So is the "I'm not going to talk about development any more in my blog" reaction something we haven't mentioned yet? Because that's just throwing your toys out the pram then packing them up and sulking off home.
Good work, Jeff.
If the gaming world loses Minter, we lose a real treasure. That's the long and the short of it.
How so? Not to knock his past triumphs (of which there was few IMO), but it's not like he's been consistently creative and productive for the past twenty years.
Except the newspaper is called Jeff Minter Weekly and its subscribers are people who are interested in Jeff Minster's opinions and therefore know the situation.
But yes, other than those little details it's exactly like posting an anonymous advert in a newspaper whose readership has no comprehension of what this is all about.
Yes, except that this little blog then becomes an anonymous advert when people spread links on the internet - and then people who've never heard of him or SG read it and go "What the fuck is this guy's problem?"
The "personal blog" argument, I would understand if he hadn't called Frogger one of the worst games of all time and presented SG as clearly, almost implicitly better, as in "my LSD game got outsold by Frogger WTF?" His claims are just too egregious for his credibility not to be affected.
Also, I still don't get all the Dyack hate- at this point he would've had to have kicked puppies and eaten babies to warrant some of the bile tossed his way.
The thing with Dyack is (or at least, was, in the GameCube era) you'd read his interviews and wouldn't think much of them initially, other than the fact that he'd be having a verbal orgasm about whatever it is he's involved with. Then you'd read more interviews and notice that he's not ever objective. It was ridiculous that he'd spent 6 months raving about Nintendo's philosophy "meshing" with his and that he was working on the greatest thing ever thanks to Nintendo. I thought the obsessive compulsive Nintendo praise was annoying enough (it literally made him sound mentally ill), but then he cited something to the effect of "philosophies not meshing" to justify getting ditched by Nintendo. Go figure.
He's never really sincere and he just endlessly gloats about everything he's involved in. Also, whining about critics' reactions to his E3 demo was very mature of him. He's also been talking about Too Human for what, 9 years now? I don't blame the media for being so critical what with the Duke Nukem Forever development time.
Finally, even if he may have a point about Unreal Engine 3, he's already gone ahead and modified UE3 and declared it his own engine. The man's a loon.
My industry STFU list:
* Peter Molyneux
* Denis Dyack
* Derek Smart
* Jeff Minter
Molyneux doesn't throw a bitchfit when someone dares not buy his mighty game. He just promises more than he can deliver.
Dyack wants a better system for publicising games, whereby the dev teams are actually allowed to have the game nearly finished before they're forced to show it off. This makes good sense.
Even Minter, before this debacle, didn't really have a reputation for being a stroppy cow.
Except the newspaper is called Jeff Minter Weekly and its subscribers are people who are interested in Jeff Minster's opinions and therefore know the situation.
But yes, other than those little details it's exactly like posting an anonymous advert in a newspaper whose readership has no comprehension of what this is all about.
Yes, except that this little blog then becomes an anonymous advert when people spread links on the internet - and then people who've never heard of him or SG read it and go "What the fuck is this guy's problem?"
And this makes Minter a dick how? Should he have foreseen it in his crystal ball?
The real question here is of course why Jeff Minter gets so many hits when he makes a post everyone seems to think he shouldn't have made, whereas no matter what I post, my little section of the Internet remains a cold and desolate wasteland of emptiness.
In all seriousness, his post might not have been made in good taste, but why is there always such a furore over such a simple post, and why is the author of the post always encouraged to 'stfu' on his own personal space of the Net? Saying that leaving something accessible on the Net is equivalent to a public broadcast seems a bit of a stretch; it's not as if you would even have known about it had news-deprived jorunalists not scoured through the net and picked up on it.
OK, I guess I'm going a little OT here, but frankly I'm glad a developer is trying something different with his creations even if they suck.
Well for me, he can say what he likes. My problem is the whole hissyfit attitude of "Well I'm just not going to make games anymore, if you're going to buy that crap that's beneath me". That crap being Frogger, a game that everyone knows and has played. Space Giraffe.. not so much.
Again, I played SG, and really didn't like it. Some people do, good for them. But to throw a right bitchfit when your psychedelic niche title doesn't break records is just petty. It makes him look childish. I'd think the same of anyone who reacted like that, wherever they chose to do so.
Something written on a blog for public consumption is essentially a press release ...
I need to start putting "Published LJ author" to my CV.
Oh come on. That's not what I'm saying at all. If you put a press release that doesn't make you a published author of any sort.
Anybody could put out a press release. It doesn't make you important and it doesn't make the Press Release worthwhile, but it certainly makes it available for public viewing and therefore ridicule.
Except the newspaper is called Jeff Minter Weekly and its subscribers are people who are interested in Jeff Minster's opinions and therefore know the situation.
But yes, other than those little details it's exactly like posting an anonymous advert in a newspaper whose readership has no comprehension of what this is all about.
Yes, except that this little blog then becomes an anonymous advert when people spread links on the internet - and then people who've never heard of him or SG read it and go "What the fuck is this guy's problem?"
And this makes Minter a dick how? Should he have foreseen it in his crystal ball?
It's not hard to think "Hey maybe if I whine and pout like a bitch, people will call me a baby." His post essentially came down to holding his breath unless people bought his game.
B> This was incredibly stupid of Minter to do. It just opens up the pipelines for people to tell him that his game sucks, when it doesn't.
He's justified in being aggravated that his title didn't do better. He's justified in being pissed that he got the shaft from OXM. But I think he needs to realize that alot of people went, "Oh look. Frogger. Purchase." The majority of people who bought Space Giraffe did so because they are fans of Minter's work. Coincidentally, the people that are fans of Minter are also the only people that "got" what he was trying to do. I'm not using that in a pejorative sense. Space Giraffe is definitely a love it or leave it type of game.
Even Minter, before this debacle, didn't really have a reputation for being a stroppy cow.
Yeah he did, most people just never really cared and he was never high profile enough (nor were the people he wa having public bitch-fits with) for it to have a reasonable impact. Minter's pulled this exact same shit before, multiple times, but prior to Space Giraffe the only people paying attention to him were those who were already predisposed to agree with him. And the man carries grudges for ages.
When did blogs suddenly become equivalent to taking a microphone and WHINING RIGHT IN YOUR EARS because it seems nowadays everyone loves to take offense to what people post in their own little section of the Internet.
It's fine if you don't like the game, but why should the designer behind it not be able to vent his own frustrations? It's not as if he actually posted here saying everyone who bought Frogger and not his awesome creation is a douchebag, he just lamented about it on his own blog.
He's a minor personality in the gaming world, but a personality nonetheless, so his blog, while personal in the sense that he runs it and writes in it himself, is quite public in the sense that he doesn't control who reads it. If Mel Gibson held an open, no-invitation-required party at his house with a big "Jews Suck" banner hanging over the fireplace, he wouldn't get out of the bad publicity by saying "well, it's my house."
If Minter holds these opinions, fine. If he wants to share them with his friends, fine. If he wants to put them online and sign his name to them then it's a public statement, and tough shit if he feels differently. This is part of fame, however minor it may be.
Which is fine and dandy, except many people aren't just slagging him off for disagreeing with him, a lot are acting as if he commited some grievous sin by daring to express it online. Blasting people on the game's forums for not liking it does make him a (bit of a) dick. Expressing frustration, even exaggerated, on a personal blog? Who gives a fuck, I've said lots of shit both here and my personal blog that I'd rethink and rephrase should I actually care to make it an official statement.
Your livejournal is not the same because, frankly, most people don't give a shit about what you (or I, or most people here) have to say because we aren't public figures in the slightest.
Some of the opinions in this thread make it sound that him being a developer means he should forever walk on eggshells about any opinion expressed about the subject online, lest it be used against him by the Grand Council Of Judgement Of Assholery.
He doesn't have to walk on eggshells, but "my game is better than Frogger" is a pretty strong claim, and when you combine that with the general "woe is me" tone the entire thing just comes off as whining that his niche game didn't do better. And nobody likes a whiner. It's also ridiculously dumb of him to complain about remakes selling well when he's built his entire fucking career on them. Llamatron to Tempest 2000 and beyond, the guy's most beloved games are all remakes to varying degrees. This makes it look even more like a serious case of sour grapes rather than any sort of legitimate insight into market trend issues.
his lamentations amounted to him basically insulting everybody who plays games, calling them stupid for not appreciating his "creativity" and "originality."
Jeff Minter has neither and he should be more than thankful that people have for so long confused "1970's psychedelic" with "original style." Space Giraffe is essentially Tempest 3000, and he's lucky anybody bothered to buy a game that subsists wholly on nostalgia for a Jaguar port of an early 80's arcade game
ITT: the truth is delivered in harsh, decisive blows :^:
Yeah he did, most people just never really cared and he was never high profile enough (nor were the people he wa having public bitch-fits with) for it to have a reasonable impact. Minter's pulled this exact same shit before, multiple times, but prior to Space Giraffe the only people paying attention to him were those who were already predisposed to agree with him. And the man carries grudges for ages.
Eh. I don't know anything about his grudges and what not. But his time in the spotlight is definitely in the past. And in a different country (considering I'm in the US). His days were with Commodore and Atari. I remember being psyched as all hell for Unity, and being glad that it somewhat surfaced in the 360.
But comparing Space Giraffe to Tempest is a bit of a red herring. Space Giraffe is a shmup. A very specific type of shmup, and one that Minter tends to work with. The same can be said about Unity and it's very "Defender" type of vibe.
So, saying Space Giraffe is a ripoff/remake of Tempest is comparable to saying Okami is a ripoff/remake of a Zelda title, because they play very similar. It's not the truth, it's just a non-sequitur. (Maybe a more apt comparison would be Geometry Wars vs Asteroids with GW just being a tarted up, LSD laced copy of Asteroids).
Besides, the guy's name might not be known, but he created the virtual light machine. Something that even your mom has probably seen or turns on from time to time whenever she's listening to whatever floats her boat.
Unfortunately for this guy, most people think his game sucks. It's like "Ooh, trippy colours!!".
I think the best comparison was "The end of 2001, made into a game". Boring, flashy colours, no idea wtf is going on and only enjoyable on LSD.
Also, I think some of the hate for the game you see comes from how "OMG BEST GAME EVER!!!!!!!!" a group of people on the forums here make it out to be.
comparing Space Giraffe to Tempest is a bit of a red herring. Space Giraffe is a shmup. A very specific type of shmup, and one that Minter tends to work with. The same can be said about Unity and it's very "Defender" type of vibe.
So, saying Space Giraffe is a ripoff/remake of Tempest is comparable to saying Okami is a ripoff/remake of a Zelda title, because they play very similar. It's not the truth, it's just a non-sequitur. (Maybe a more apt comparison would be Geometry Wars vs Asteroids with GW just being a tarted up, LSD laced copy of Asteroids).
Asteroids and Geometry Wars don't have much in common beyond being vector-based. Tempest had a very, very particular viewpoint, playstyle and visual design, and Space Giraffe maintains all of that. The "ship" is still a V, the stage is still a pseudo-grid going into the distence through which you fly at the end of a stage, the initial enemies are still crosses that flip to move, "flowers" that grow and form lethal lines behind them appear, etc. Not everything in Space Giraffe is from Tempest, but everything in Tempest migrated to Space Giraffe. He did significantly change the playstyle through his additions, but we all know perfectly well what foundation he was adding to in the first place.
If Geometry Wars were inertia-based, had large chunks of rock splitting into smaller chunks of rock, had a screen that wrapped around, had an occasional UFO that shot at the player, but added in a much more complex combo system and trippy colors, people would call it a tarted-up Asteroids and it would be justified. Since it's lacking all of these things, it's not a reasonable comparison, unlike SG and Tempest.
So, Space Giraffe is a Tempest rip off because shares the same perspective and incorporates some of the design choices in Tempest, and Geometry Wars isn't an Asteroid's ripoff even though it shares the same perspective and incorporates some of the design choices in Asteroids, but is excluded because it doesn't have a screen that wraps around?
People call it an Asteroid's type game because it is.
That's like saying Stardust/Super Stardust isn't an Asteroids clone because it has powerups, and instead of a wrapping screen you walk around a planet.
People call it an Asteroid's type game because it is.
No, people call it a Robotron type game because it actually has something in common with that. It's got fuck-all to do with Asteroids outside of the vector graphics, and I've never seen someone make the comparison before this thread, whereas Robotron and Smash TV are almost always brought up when describing Geometry Wars.
And Space Giraffe doesn't incorporate "some of the design choices" of Tempest, it incorporates damn near all of the design choices, down to having some of the exact same enemies who behave in exactly the same way, and then adds its own stuff on top of that. Again, damn near everything in Tempest found its way into Space Giraffe... the link is, if I were being generous, similar to the one between Gradius and Life Force.
No, people call it a Robotron type game because it actually has something in common with that. It's got fuck-all to do with Asteroids outside of the vector graphics, and I've never seen someone make the comparison before this thread, whereas Robotron and Smash TV are almost always brought up when describing Geometry Wars.
No, people call it a Robotron type game because it actually has something in common with that. It's got fuck-all to do with Asteroids outside of the vector graphics, and I've never seen someone make the comparison before this thread, whereas Robotron and Smash TV are almost always brought up when describing Geometry Wars.
Man what? That's nuts. You're nuts.
Yes, an action game focused on waves of increasingly difficult enemies controlled via two sticks that respectively aim and move independently clearly has more to do with Asteroids than Smash TV.
No, people call it a Robotron type game because it actually has something in common with that. It's got fuck-all to do with Asteroids outside of the vector graphics, and I've never seen someone make the comparison before this thread, whereas Robotron and Smash TV are almost always brought up when describing Geometry Wars.
Man what? That's nuts. You're nuts.
I guess you've never played Asteroids, or Smash TV... or Geometry Wars, because he's spot on.
But Smash TV isn't set in space, nor do you pilot a space shuttle or fire at invading aliens. And Geometry Wars has different score counter. Obviously, they are two completely different games.
But Smash TV isn't set in space, nor do you pilot a space shuttle or fire at invading aliens. And Geometry Wars has different score counter. Obviously, they are two completely different games.
:roll:
I don't think you even know what you're trying to argue now.
Geometry Wars is similar to Robotron because they play very similarly (the main element, dual stick movement and firing, is prominent in both). Geometry Wars is not similar to Asteroids because they do not play similarly (inertia is Asteroids' big deal and impacts every aspect of its design, and Geometry Wars doesn't consider inertia at all. Additionally, the enemies in Asteroids do not track the player at all). Space Giraffe is similar to Tempest because they play very similarly (same viewpoint, same basic controls, same level structure, similar enemy patterns and types). None of this is complex, yet you seem positively determined to miss the point anyway.
I'm almost expecting you to say Llamatron isn't an update of Robotron, just to be contrary. Seriously, the leap of logic it must take to say GW and Asteroids are similar but SG and Tempest are not much be migrane-inducing.
In conclusion, you don't know what the hell you'e talking about.
I'm aware the last post was sarcasm. My point is that the similarities between GW and Asteroids are nowhere near comparable to the similarities between SG and the Tempest games. One pair shares a setting and a basic visual style while having quite different gameplay, the other pair shares damn near everything including a developer with one having a more refined combo system. Tempest 2000 updated a bunch of stuff from the original (it wasn't just Tempest but prettier) and Space Giraffe updates it more, but the basic foundation is obviously Tempest.
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Sure he "lamented" about it on his own blog, but his lamentations amounted to him basically insulting everybody who plays games, calling them stupid for not appreciating his "creativity" and "originality."
Jeff Minter has neither and he should be more than thankful that people have for so long confused "1970's psychedelic" with "original style." Space Giraffe is essentially Tempest 3000, and he's lucky anybody bothered to buy a game that subsists wholly on nostalgia for a Jaguar port of an early 80's arcade game.
Something written on a blog for public consumption is essentially a press release ... though for most people it's a press release that nobody gives two shits about. I'm not going to say that he doesn't have the right or even that he shouldn't ... but if the consequence is that people get mad then he has to live with it.
Good work, Jeff.
How so? Not to knock his past triumphs (of which there was few IMO), but it's not like he's been consistently creative and productive for the past twenty years.
Yes, except that this little blog then becomes an anonymous advert when people spread links on the internet - and then people who've never heard of him or SG read it and go "What the fuck is this guy's problem?"
It does - if seizures are your thing.
I remember when I was young, I used to believe in things, too.
The "personal blog" argument, I would understand if he hadn't called Frogger one of the worst games of all time and presented SG as clearly, almost implicitly better, as in "my LSD game got outsold by Frogger WTF?" His claims are just too egregious for his credibility not to be affected.
The thing with Dyack is (or at least, was, in the GameCube era) you'd read his interviews and wouldn't think much of them initially, other than the fact that he'd be having a verbal orgasm about whatever it is he's involved with. Then you'd read more interviews and notice that he's not ever objective. It was ridiculous that he'd spent 6 months raving about Nintendo's philosophy "meshing" with his and that he was working on the greatest thing ever thanks to Nintendo. I thought the obsessive compulsive Nintendo praise was annoying enough (it literally made him sound mentally ill), but then he cited something to the effect of "philosophies not meshing" to justify getting ditched by Nintendo. Go figure.
He's never really sincere and he just endlessly gloats about everything he's involved in. Also, whining about critics' reactions to his E3 demo was very mature of him. He's also been talking about Too Human for what, 9 years now? I don't blame the media for being so critical what with the Duke Nukem Forever development time.
Finally, even if he may have a point about Unreal Engine 3, he's already gone ahead and modified UE3 and declared it his own engine. The man's a loon.
My industry STFU list:
* Peter Molyneux
* Denis Dyack
* Derek Smart
* Jeff Minter
I was young and naive... I still believed in things.
https://medium.com/@alascii
Dyack wants a better system for publicising games, whereby the dev teams are actually allowed to have the game nearly finished before they're forced to show it off. This makes good sense.
Even Minter, before this debacle, didn't really have a reputation for being a stroppy cow.
In all seriousness, his post might not have been made in good taste, but why is there always such a furore over such a simple post, and why is the author of the post always encouraged to 'stfu' on his own personal space of the Net? Saying that leaving something accessible on the Net is equivalent to a public broadcast seems a bit of a stretch; it's not as if you would even have known about it had news-deprived jorunalists not scoured through the net and picked up on it.
OK, I guess I'm going a little OT here, but frankly I'm glad a developer is trying something different with his creations even if they suck.
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Again, I played SG, and really didn't like it. Some people do, good for them. But to throw a right bitchfit when your psychedelic niche title doesn't break records is just petty. It makes him look childish. I'd think the same of anyone who reacted like that, wherever they chose to do so.
Anybody could put out a press release. It doesn't make you important and it doesn't make the Press Release worthwhile, but it certainly makes it available for public viewing and therefore ridicule.
It's not hard to think "Hey maybe if I whine and pout like a bitch, people will call me a baby." His post essentially came down to holding his breath unless people bought his game.
B> This was incredibly stupid of Minter to do. It just opens up the pipelines for people to tell him that his game sucks, when it doesn't.
He's justified in being aggravated that his title didn't do better. He's justified in being pissed that he got the shaft from OXM. But I think he needs to realize that alot of people went, "Oh look. Frogger. Purchase." The majority of people who bought Space Giraffe did so because they are fans of Minter's work. Coincidentally, the people that are fans of Minter are also the only people that "got" what he was trying to do. I'm not using that in a pejorative sense. Space Giraffe is definitely a love it or leave it type of game.
It does.
fixed.
Yeah he did, most people just never really cared and he was never high profile enough (nor were the people he wa having public bitch-fits with) for it to have a reasonable impact. Minter's pulled this exact same shit before, multiple times, but prior to Space Giraffe the only people paying attention to him were those who were already predisposed to agree with him. And the man carries grudges for ages.
He's a minor personality in the gaming world, but a personality nonetheless, so his blog, while personal in the sense that he runs it and writes in it himself, is quite public in the sense that he doesn't control who reads it. If Mel Gibson held an open, no-invitation-required party at his house with a big "Jews Suck" banner hanging over the fireplace, he wouldn't get out of the bad publicity by saying "well, it's my house."
If Minter holds these opinions, fine. If he wants to share them with his friends, fine. If he wants to put them online and sign his name to them then it's a public statement, and tough shit if he feels differently. This is part of fame, however minor it may be.
Your livejournal is not the same because, frankly, most people don't give a shit about what you (or I, or most people here) have to say because we aren't public figures in the slightest.
He doesn't have to walk on eggshells, but "my game is better than Frogger" is a pretty strong claim, and when you combine that with the general "woe is me" tone the entire thing just comes off as whining that his niche game didn't do better. And nobody likes a whiner. It's also ridiculously dumb of him to complain about remakes selling well when he's built his entire fucking career on them. Llamatron to Tempest 2000 and beyond, the guy's most beloved games are all remakes to varying degrees. This makes it look even more like a serious case of sour grapes rather than any sort of legitimate insight into market trend issues.
ITT: the truth is delivered in harsh, decisive blows :^:
Eh. I don't know anything about his grudges and what not. But his time in the spotlight is definitely in the past. And in a different country (considering I'm in the US). His days were with Commodore and Atari. I remember being psyched as all hell for Unity, and being glad that it somewhat surfaced in the 360.
But comparing Space Giraffe to Tempest is a bit of a red herring. Space Giraffe is a shmup. A very specific type of shmup, and one that Minter tends to work with. The same can be said about Unity and it's very "Defender" type of vibe.
So, saying Space Giraffe is a ripoff/remake of Tempest is comparable to saying Okami is a ripoff/remake of a Zelda title, because they play very similar. It's not the truth, it's just a non-sequitur. (Maybe a more apt comparison would be Geometry Wars vs Asteroids with GW just being a tarted up, LSD laced copy of Asteroids).
Besides, the guy's name might not be known, but he created the virtual light machine. Something that even your mom has probably seen or turns on from time to time whenever she's listening to whatever floats her boat.
I think the best comparison was "The end of 2001, made into a game". Boring, flashy colours, no idea wtf is going on and only enjoyable on LSD.
Also, I think some of the hate for the game you see comes from how "OMG BEST GAME EVER!!!!!!!!" a group of people on the forums here make it out to be.
Asteroids and Geometry Wars don't have much in common beyond being vector-based. Tempest had a very, very particular viewpoint, playstyle and visual design, and Space Giraffe maintains all of that. The "ship" is still a V, the stage is still a pseudo-grid going into the distence through which you fly at the end of a stage, the initial enemies are still crosses that flip to move, "flowers" that grow and form lethal lines behind them appear, etc. Not everything in Space Giraffe is from Tempest, but everything in Tempest migrated to Space Giraffe. He did significantly change the playstyle through his additions, but we all know perfectly well what foundation he was adding to in the first place.
If Geometry Wars were inertia-based, had large chunks of rock splitting into smaller chunks of rock, had a screen that wrapped around, had an occasional UFO that shot at the player, but added in a much more complex combo system and trippy colors, people would call it a tarted-up Asteroids and it would be justified. Since it's lacking all of these things, it's not a reasonable comparison, unlike SG and Tempest.
People call it an Asteroid's type game because it is.
That's like saying Stardust/Super Stardust isn't an Asteroids clone because it has powerups, and instead of a wrapping screen you walk around a planet.
No, people call it a Robotron type game because it actually has something in common with that. It's got fuck-all to do with Asteroids outside of the vector graphics, and I've never seen someone make the comparison before this thread, whereas Robotron and Smash TV are almost always brought up when describing Geometry Wars.
And Space Giraffe doesn't incorporate "some of the design choices" of Tempest, it incorporates damn near all of the design choices, down to having some of the exact same enemies who behave in exactly the same way, and then adds its own stuff on top of that. Again, damn near everything in Tempest found its way into Space Giraffe... the link is, if I were being generous, similar to the one between Gradius and Life Force.
Yes, an action game focused on waves of increasingly difficult enemies controlled via two sticks that respectively aim and move independently clearly has more to do with Asteroids than Smash TV.
:roll:
I don't think you even know what you're trying to argue now.
Geometry Wars is similar to Robotron because they play very similarly (the main element, dual stick movement and firing, is prominent in both). Geometry Wars is not similar to Asteroids because they do not play similarly (inertia is Asteroids' big deal and impacts every aspect of its design, and Geometry Wars doesn't consider inertia at all. Additionally, the enemies in Asteroids do not track the player at all). Space Giraffe is similar to Tempest because they play very similarly (same viewpoint, same basic controls, same level structure, similar enemy patterns and types). None of this is complex, yet you seem positively determined to miss the point anyway.
I'm almost expecting you to say Llamatron isn't an update of Robotron, just to be contrary. Seriously, the leap of logic it must take to say GW and Asteroids are similar but SG and Tempest are not much be migrane-inducing.
In conclusion, you don't know what the hell you'e talking about.
This post, combined with your avatar, is gold.
I'm aware the last post was sarcasm. My point is that the similarities between GW and Asteroids are nowhere near comparable to the similarities between SG and the Tempest games. One pair shares a setting and a basic visual style while having quite different gameplay, the other pair shares damn near everything including a developer with one having a more refined combo system. Tempest 2000 updated a bunch of stuff from the original (it wasn't just Tempest but prettier) and Space Giraffe updates it more, but the basic foundation is obviously Tempest.
He's come damn close to bragging about it. It's creepy as all hell.