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Looking at rifles & pistols
LondonBridge
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Lately I've been getting this itch to purchase a rifle and possibly a pistol. I haven't fired a weapon in almost 10 years from my time in the Army. I was a pretty good shot too so I just wanna stay in practice and have fun at a range.
Anyways, I feel like a civilian weapon n00b and know nothing about whats out there.
For a rifle I'm looking at something thats similar to the old M16 but more advanced, looks cool, semi-auto, not too long nor heavy, priced about $1000 or less.
As for pistols, something along the lines of the Berreta which I found online already easily. Can anybody recommend a good competitor?
Thanks!
Anyways, I feel like a civilian weapon n00b and know nothing about whats out there.
For a rifle I'm looking at something thats similar to the old M16 but more advanced, looks cool, semi-auto, not too long nor heavy, priced about $1000 or less.
As for pistols, something along the lines of the Berreta which I found online already easily. Can anybody recommend a good competitor?
Thanks!
LondonBridge on
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"More advanced" than the M-16 it's not, but that's a tall order.
I've been eyeing a Mini-14, which is basically a slightly smaller civilian version of the M-14 that fires .223 rounds. They are $400-500.
Well, maybe I should clarify that by advanced I mean 'looks cool!' No wooden stocks, lol.
No autofire, fires .223. Fun stuff!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AR-15
http://www.hecklerkoch-usa.com/rifles_sl86_general.html
what the hell
There is the Kel-Tec SU-16. I don't know how good it is, but the front half of the stock turns into a bipod, transformers-style.
Edit: The FN SCAR should see a civilian model in 2008. It'll be $$$, though.
The mini-14 is a goddamn can of worms full of fun mechanical problems, and the mags suck and are way too fucking expensive.
Plus the thing isn't even accurate.
Your best bet might be to go to a gunshow and see what they have available.
For pistols, when you say "along the lines" of a Beretta, what do you mean? Same caliber? Same appearance?
The rifle is about $920, the pistol is about $700
Whats funny is that even though it's a right to own a firearm in the US it feels weird to buy one. Must be from all my years in the Army. Basic training alone will make you not want to touch another rifle again.
As for rifles, what are you looking to shoot? Like, are you going for accuracy, do you want to be able to shoot off a whole crap load of rounds for cheap, or what? If it's accuracy, I'll say to you what I say to everyone else: get a nice bolt action. If you want to shoot for cheap, find yourself an SKS. Preferably a Romanian one, those are higher quality than some of the other ones floating around. The guns themselves are cheap, anywhere from $100 to $300 for a decent one, and a bit more expensive for the rarer variants. Also, the ammo they shoot is crazy cheap. My friend has one here up in Canada, and he buys ammo by the crate, and it definitely does not hurt his wallet too bad.
The other plus side to getting something like the SKS is that, since it's cheap, you won't be committing to something crazy expensive that you might regret later or won't use - like that very nice but very pricey H&K.
Which XD barrel length did you get? I back this gun. HARD. I realize it's not the shape of a berretta, but this weapon is an excellent thing to have. It has the shape of a glock, but grip isn't at an awkward angle, it's lighter and just as reliable. Throw some irridium sights on it (they glow thanks to an ultra low level of radiation) and you have an excellent firearm.
The XD and the colt 1911 .45 are my prefered weapons of choice. You said you wanted the gun primarily to keep up some skill at the range, but if you decide to purchase a pistol for home defense also, I highly recommend purchasing a clip and loading at the first bullet with an air marshall round. It's designed not to puncture surfaces such as walls. This will keep you from accidentally firing through a wall and causing accidental damage. I got this idea from a friend who has two children that sleep across the hall from him.
If the goal is home defense, get a shotgun. If the goal is having fun, then don't worry about the home defense aspect as it's irrelevant, and it's a completely unlikely scenario to ever occur anyhow.
CUZ THERE'S SOMETHING IN THE MIDDLE AND IT'S GIVING ME A RASH
What makes you say that? A full-length shotgun won't be very maneuverable in a small hallway, and you can't hold it on a target with one hand (say, to turn on a light or use a phone). It's also limited in storage options.
Of course it has reliability and availability of ammo going for it, but tactically the pistol seems superior.
(I realize this is a bit off topic, but this is a handgun advice thread.)
okay, this is off topic but it's worth explaining so let's take it to PMs or start a thread in D&D to discuss the subject if you really feel it's necessary beyond this:
First off, the moment you take one hand off the weapon to do something else, your attention is on that something else. If the other party is armed, whether you realize it or not at this point, you've done something very dangerous. You'll never complete a phone call if you try to do it while holding someone at gun point and that someone's carrying a pistol they haven't revealed to you yet.
Second, pistol shooting in the dark isn't going to be accurate. It just won't. So you have two options, you turn on a light and reveal your physical location, and if the other party is armed you're doing something extremely dangerous again.
If you're shooting in the dark, well, a bad situation is getting progressively worse. If you're using a large calibre, or even a small caliber in a home with drywall for walls, your misses are going to punch through the wall. What will they hit on the other side? You don't have any idea. Bystanders have been hit before.
Even a round not meant to puncture walls isn't going to get slowed down too much by drywall, or it's not going to be an effective round anyhow. Any pistol round sufficient to down someone in short order is going to be a risky one to fire in the dark, and let's face it: It's dark. You're probably going to waste all of your bullets without hitting anyone, you're just going to ruin your own shit, and while you're reloading he's going to get the jump on you or he's going to run for his life. And now you have a house full of shit you broke for yourself by firing wildly in the dark. I really hope you have a wonderfully forgiving insurance company.
So you can at worst hit someone on the other side of a wall, or you can at best ruin a bunch of your own stuff. The fantasy of having a wild west shoot out where only the bad guy gets hurt and all your stuff is miraculously fine is just a fantasy.
Now the shotgun, that's an interesting subject.
First, about barrel length in America: if it was not originally designed to be fired from the shoulder, it technically is not a shotgun. Therefore it does not matter if the barrel length is below the 18" minimum, or the overall weapon's length is below the 26" minimum, if it did not come with a shoulder stock.
Which means you're not necessarily looking at a weapon that's over 2 feet long. But let's assume you are.
You're going to want a 12 gauge pump action shotgun. Something that lets you shout "put your hands in the air or I'll shoot" and follow it up by that very ominous sound that signifies you've loaded a shell into the chamber. If it turns into a firefight, this is the advantage of the shotgun: You don't need to be accurate. If you set the choke to wide dispersal, as you're not going to be firing it at a target over 30 feet away, you can be pretty assured that you're going to hit something. Maybe it won't be vital but shredding up an arm or leg is a good first step.
You can also choose to use lower power shot that won't penetrate walls at greater distance. Because each pellet is so small, the drywall across the room from you will either stop it, or slow it down below a lethal speed. At the same time, being peppered across the arm, leg or face with something that dry wall just barely stopped is going to put the other party out of the fight.
Mostly, you want a shotgun because you can "miss" and still injure/kill the other party thanks to the spread pattern. They also have a frightening reputation, and the sound of a pump action is unmistakable. At the same time they're often safer for bystanders, and the barrel length (which can be very, very short if you choose the right model) is hardly an issue, given that you'll be in the dark, and ideally across the room or down the hallway from your target.
CUZ THERE'S SOMETHING IN THE MIDDLE AND IT'S GIVING ME A RASH
The Box O' Truth -- See especially shotguns.
A large amount of a gunfight is how intimidating each weapon is, if all you're facing is a bang bang bang, one hole in the wall at a time, you're probably gonna think "ohshitohshitohshit i hope he doesn't hit me!".
If you see 2 metersof a nearby wall get totally fucked up following a tremendous boom, then hearing the next round with that ch-chk, all you can think about is bracing yourself and hoping to god he wont shoot at you again.
On that note, I wouldn't buy anything named "XD-" where the X literally stands for Xtreme, based on principle alone.
CUZ THERE'S SOMETHING IN THE MIDDLE AND IT'S GIVING ME A RASH
Sadly the D&D mods throw hissy fits and assume anyone who uses guns are complete fucktards...
On topic though, a good pistol, check out the Walthers P99. I have one in .40cal, it's a very good pistol.
As for the guy asking about .22 pistols... you can probably pick up a Ruger Mk IV .22 Target Pistol for about $300-400, they are very accurate and reliable.
http://www.berettausa.com/product/spotlight/5_of%20spotlight_pistol_subcompact.cfm
Update: I think I'm gonna settle on this pistol till I see it up close and get a feel for it. Has a lot of interesting features and Guns & Ammo had a good review of it too.
As for the rifles, I'm gonna shop around some as I don't plan on buying two weapons at once.
I have two coworkers that own a lot of guns though one is a H&K fanboy and the other is a Sig lover
Depending on how small your hands are, you may want to just stick with single stack magazine weapons. My smaller than average hands CAN hold onto a double stack magazine handgun like a Glock 17, but it's not comfortable as my single stack 1911.
Something to keep in mind with rifles is that if you have the inclination to, you can buy a receiver and then add the other parts to it to make something to your specifications for a cheaper price than buying the rifle whole. AR-15s are famous for this and you could easily make something fancier than what you used in the service but still familiar to you (though I'll mention that the price for 5.56/.233 ammo is pretty high due to demand).
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As for rifles, if this is just a gun to go to the range with (which I highly doubt it's just for that), I'd recommend a .22. If this is a gun that you can take to the range, do some hunting with, and want to put some lead down range accurately up to 300-400yds, get a bolt action. Remington's 700 series are well thought of, and can be had in the lower $500s if you look around. That's basically the gun the Army and Marines use to make their sniper's rifle platform from, although much, much more expensive.
You could probably pick up a cheap Enfield or Mosin-Nagant from a used gun store.
As for sexy black rifles like the AR, yeah, they're sweet, but I'd get acquainted with some other firearms first before blowing your load with the hottest bitch at the party.