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"Oxytocin is Evil" (Premaritial Sex Thread)
Black Ice
Charlotte, NCRegistered User regular
Charlotte, NCRegistered User regular
I'm in a religion class where my nutcase teacher is trying to preach to my class that premarital sex is evil for a number of reasons. While I don't believe it's right, I also don't enjoy the spin and bias she gives the class, so I'm pretty much always the devil's advocate on every issue. But for this, I'm asking for some help. Instead of putting this in H/A, I figured I'd leave this up to D&D:
Oxytocin is a chemical that is released when lactating, during sex, on certain drugs, etc. (all of this can be found on Wikipedia).
Here's where everything starts to get hazy. My teacher says that oxytocin is a chemical releasedl during sex that leaves you with a permanent bond with the person you just had sex with (source?? I don't know. Maybe it's true, but I have yet to see research). She claims that whenever the person you had sex with walks into the same room as you, your pheromones "go crazy" and you sense they're there - subconsciously (to which I say, "So what? If you don't see them on a daily basis, does it matter?"). She claims that if you walk into a room 60 years after you had sex with that person and you don't recognize them, your pheromones will still sense it.
She won't elaborate on the "feelings" that surface, she's simply going onto the fact that when you have sex, it basically makes for a harder breakup. And since it's a permanent bond, and marriage is a permanent bond, it should be reserved for marriage. I find it hard to believe that oxytocin only releases permanent bonds during sex, and that these permanent bonds are that strong. I agree that permaritial sex is probably not a good idea, but the "sex gives you a permanent bond with someone via oxytocin, so you should make sure to only have sex with your spouse! As a matter of fact, heavy make-out sessions can do the same thing, so don't do those either!" bothers me to no extent.
Of course, no one in my class but me knows what pheromones are. Since the teacher is in a higher position of authority, only about half of the class cares about what I know, which is fine.. but bothering me in and of itself, since the teacher is spinning the info to most of the kids. Deluging a bunch of students with advanced vocabulary words to try and confuse and scare them into something has never worked well for me.
She has a degree in theology, and she's trying to tell us about biochemistry. Something is awry here.. so D&D, my question I propose to you is this: what do you think about oxytocin and its release during sex and other activities? Is it detrimental to someone's mental or emotional health if you have sex and see that person later? And what arguments would you bring up in a situation like mine concerning oxytocin? Factual evidence/studies are a huge plus.
Oxytocin is a chemical that is released when lactating, during sex, on certain drugs, etc. (all of this can be found on Wikipedia).
Here's where everything starts to get hazy. My teacher says that oxytocin is a chemical releasedl during sex that leaves you with a permanent bond with the person you just had sex with (source?? I don't know. Maybe it's true, but I have yet to see research). She claims that whenever the person you had sex with walks into the same room as you, your pheromones "go crazy" and you sense they're there - subconsciously (to which I say, "So what? If you don't see them on a daily basis, does it matter?"). She claims that if you walk into a room 60 years after you had sex with that person and you don't recognize them, your pheromones will still sense it.
She won't elaborate on the "feelings" that surface, she's simply going onto the fact that when you have sex, it basically makes for a harder breakup. And since it's a permanent bond, and marriage is a permanent bond, it should be reserved for marriage. I find it hard to believe that oxytocin only releases permanent bonds during sex, and that these permanent bonds are that strong. I agree that permaritial sex is probably not a good idea, but the "sex gives you a permanent bond with someone via oxytocin, so you should make sure to only have sex with your spouse! As a matter of fact, heavy make-out sessions can do the same thing, so don't do those either!" bothers me to no extent.
Of course, no one in my class but me knows what pheromones are. Since the teacher is in a higher position of authority, only about half of the class cares about what I know, which is fine.. but bothering me in and of itself, since the teacher is spinning the info to most of the kids. Deluging a bunch of students with advanced vocabulary words to try and confuse and scare them into something has never worked well for me.
She has a degree in theology, and she's trying to tell us about biochemistry. Something is awry here.. so D&D, my question I propose to you is this: what do you think about oxytocin and its release during sex and other activities? Is it detrimental to someone's mental or emotional health if you have sex and see that person later? And what arguments would you bring up in a situation like mine concerning oxytocin? Factual evidence/studies are a huge plus.
Black Ice on
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Well there's your problem!
Your teacher feeds on a nice diet of horseshit.
Yeah, that's really about it.
There is something to the whole pheromones recognition thing among couples, but it has nothing to do oxytocin reception during sex and is based on emotional state while you're around the person. And it isn't any sort of a permanent bond, and will fade in time if the association is broken. So really not the same at all.
Basically she's full of crap.
The bolded portion would be the awry part.
If that was the only, or worst, thing wrong in that spiel I'd let it slide. As is it's like complaining about the seating arrangement as the Titanic sinks.
Beyond that, it's always struck me as a vestigial thing in a relationship that already works. In a relationship that doesn't, well, it just fucks you a lot.
As much as I hate to generalize, it's another example of the current movement to pervert scientific ideas to support whatever the irrational belief of the moment is.
Since moral authority is no longer enough to command the ignorant masses, those cynical enough churn out crap like this. Pseudo-science is the new burning bush.
Yeah. although people who tie the knot later in life seem to do better. Presumably because they're not young, dumb and desperate :P the stats still paint an... unfavourable, shall we say, picture of its effects on women, though.
Yes, oxytocin is released during sex. It's also released during the beginning of a new love affair. (And during pregnancy and with certain drugs, as you've said.)
And yes, it's quite likely that oxytocin makes it easier to bond with somebody emotionally.
But that's about where the truth in your teacher's position ends.
The bond isn't permanent. Your hormones don't guide your actions. Pheromones have a zero-to-negligible effect on human behavior. They certainly don't make you go crazy. There's new evidence to suggest that kids who have sex earlier end up better adjusted than kids who have sex later. (The cause of the effect is not known, but my guess is that kids who have sex earlier started out with better social skills which could be an indicator of psychological health.)
See, I could make the argument that because oxytocin is associated with reduced stress and stronger social bonding, having the oxytocin release from sex makes you happier and makes your relationships with other people go more smoothly. But I wouldn't argue that in front of a class full of impressionable kids, because even if I believed that (I don't believe it per se but I'm sympathetic to the idea and it wouldn't surprise me to be the case) to spout that would basically represent me using my position of authority as a bully pulpit to engage in blatant propagandizing instead of doing my job, which would be to teach.
Finally, I'd suggest being very suspicious - very, very suspicious - of anybody trying to use human biology as an argument for or against any kind of sexual behavior, because we honestly know so little about the biological underpinnings of behavior (especially sexual behavior) that the whole field is a big shadow puppet show upon which people liberally project their own personal biases. By the way, that includes the paragraph immediately preceding this one in my own post. I'm not immune to it, either.
the "no true scotch man" fallacy.
It seems like the primary social benefit of lording it over unmarried couples and single people could also be had simply by lying about it.
but anyway, the 'women are robots controlled by their hormones' thing is hardly new, and the fact that this one is also used to shame guys is probably less important in these people's minds than that meme. That 'how girls think' or whatever book that came out recently pulled similar bullshit, arguing that oxytocin is released during socialisation and therefore that's why women apparently never shut up and travel everywhere in herds. yeah...
I don't think this is even related to the topic at-hand, but I have to add:
I've recently become single again, and I've been doing 'research', if you will, on genetic and psychological differences between men and women, and I have to say, that the 'women are robots controlled by hormones' thing comes up alot, and it makes me O_o. Half out of disgust, and half out of 'what the hell are these people talking about?'.
I always suspected, but I could never quite convince myself. I guess it's not women's fault. I'm sure there's a hormone associated with being unable to drive or with yakking at cashiers in supermarkets or with liking jerks.
I'm going to have to put this into bullet point so I can deliver the hard-hitting facts one by one during a class discussion. Anyone want to help/point out some major facts? This is a lot of good information and I don't want to miss anything. I've read everyone's posts, and I really appreciate it! Thanks guys.
Well there's gotta be something.
if you want a more sciencey link, there's this. Myers is a biologist.
Have you talked to any higher ups at the college about this professor using class time for personal morality sermons?
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My guess is this is actual curriculum.
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It reminds me of orthodox jewish law. They have a law that says you can't consume meat and dairy in the same meal because the Torah tells them not to. Then they say that their have been scientific studies that say consuming meat and dairy at the same time is hard on the digestive system. That may be, but that's not the reason that you're doing it. Your teacher doesn't believe in premarital sex for religious reasons, and she's trying to justify it by using science. Made up science at that.
For more information on the ACTUAL biological reasons for courtship, marriage and sex, this is a great read. Half.com has it for like four bucks.
Anyway you have a couple choices. Step 1 call her on it, and provide proof that she will ignore and the rest of the class wont understand.
Or 2. Ask her uncomfortable questions. Such as "Has that happened to you and how did you cope with the effects?" Or "If ive already had premarital sex with multiple partners what can i do to lessen the effects?" Follow up question "Since they are in this class, can i get some form of medical waiver to not attend as my presence is going to cause undue stress upon them, and possibly lower their grade?" or "Can this cause women to become emotionally attached to inanimate objects?"
The line is crossed when a teacher present their opinion as an objective fact.
This has become a frightening trend in recent years
B: When she can't answer effectively, give the correct answer and show why it doesn't have that much of an effect on relationships.
Just do like I did when my religious studies teacher started expounding personal bullshit in highschool. Tell her that she's making you uncomfortable, and get up and walk out of class.
Unless you're in a private school, what she's doing is illegal.
The gland that supposedly receives pheromones for other mammals was found to be pretty much crippled in humans. If it does play a role for people it's much less so than for most other animals.
By your teacher's reasoning - and I'm using the words teacher and reasoning very elastically here - we should not cuddle before marriage either.