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Getting out (Military)
Jimmy
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So, I have two and half years left on my second enlistment. For many reasons, I dont want to be in the Military anymore. The reasons aren't really important to the question at hand. I've looked for different ways to get out honorably, because that is really the only way I would go. At this point it seems that I will have to bite the bullet and finish up. But, I pose it to you H/A, What ways can you think of to get out of an enlistment contract? Perhaps you can think of an idea that is feasable that I havent.
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the husband of a really close friend of mine is in this same situation, and after much deliberation, arguing and seeking legal advice, he's determined that "honorable discharge" only means injury and completion of service now.
Our military is hurting for attendance.
So your options, as far as he was able to decipher, are complete your service, or find someone who wants a dishonorable discharge and have him "accidentally" drop a round in your calf.
lol, after seeing what happend with a round to the calf to Sean Taylor, I think I would have to take it in the foot instead.
(in b4 r u serious!!!!!!111!!?)
(no..im not)
In the British army soldiers are able to buy out their contracts. It's obviously staggeringly expensive, but maybe the same option is available in the US.
Its not that easy. To get out as a gay, you have to prove that the feelings started after you joined the military. There also has to be proof. Im not willing to fake it to get this type of proof.
Not at all true. Used to be some kind of thing along those lines, but this was in the early 90's, it's long gone unless you joined pre-'93 or thereabouts.
On the other hand we don't have the same 'contracts' as you do. We have a return of service for training (generally 3 years) and then a 12 month notice period for discharge. We don't lock people into extended service contracts for specific periods; return of service is related to training, so if you do additional super-secret courses (SF to use a lazy example) then you will be expected to serve a few more years after that point. Otherwise, your initial 3 years having passed, you can give 12 months notice at any time afaik.
Most of the issues actually come from people not wanting to wait 12 months until getting out, rather than people wanting out in the first 3 years. Mostly the latter isn't a problem because (unlike the US?) you can easily get out at any time during / right after training.
So the standard route is still to post whoever wants out to some desk job or equivalent for 12 months where they aren't doing much good, but aren't doing much harm either.
Just curious, what branch are you in?
USAF. Im already looking into the Palace Chase program, but I wont be able to apply for that until February. Because of my AFSC the Palace Chase/Palace Front program will be a long shot.
Seriously? USAF is that hard?
Its not a question of being hard. I handle the job I have very easily and have been recognized quite often for my work. In the scenario of life, the military no longer fits in. However, because I signed the contract, I will honor it unless I can find an honorable way to get out early. There are many personal reasons as I stated in the OP, a lot of the reasons I first joined are no longer applicable and I've taken what I needed from the experience and gave everything asked of me and more while I was in. Additionally, I joined because I was willing to die protecting this country, not protecting the oil investment of a dumb fuck president and crooked administration.
You may want to consider filing for Conscientious Objector status. You should consider whether or not you really believe in war and believe that you can participate in one. If not, you can get discharged because your beliefs have changed. I'm not sure on the specifics of it, but go to www.objector.org to get more detailed information.
Another site of interest is www.girights.org. If you're being rubbed wrong by the military, you need to understand your rights and what you can do despite the seemingly air-tight contracts.
Stick it out - they're be a new administration soon, so you may find yourself in a different position/mindset.
"Soon" means January 20th, 2009, which is more than enough time to be sent downrange to protect "the oil investment of a dumb fuck president and crooked administration."
Even then, the quagmires in Iraq and Afghanistan won't magically stop on that date, either. Troop rotations will continue going in until all are out, which is not going to happen any time before 2010. It's Vietnam 2.0 and I recommend that the OP investigate his options before he's sent over there to make Bush & Co. wealthier.
My apologies.
If you fail a drug test, for example, I thought it was an "other than honorable" discharge or some such
See, the thing is, if you just say "Sarge, I'm gay"
then you lied about not being gay when you signed up, so your discharge won't be honorable. You have to prove, somehow, that bunking with hundreds of men, away from home for the first time, at the same age when people usually come out, men you constantly exercise, shower, and polish guns with that are all in great shape and lounging around in uniform, somehow turned you gay. Which, for some reason, the military doesn't find all that plausible.
A friend of mine got out with an honorable from the navy when he turned out to have a heart condition he didn't know about - could you get a full body scan, see if you've got any ticking time bombs sent by the gods?
I host a podcast about movies.
There is the possibility of getting a general discharge and appealing for an upgrade six months after you get out, but only a handful of general discharges get upgraded and a general can screw you out of benefits you may have coming to you. Short of injuries incurred during military life and serving out your time, I don't have much advice for you. Most of the medical discharges I saw were in BCT. Considering how you're going about this, I don't suspect you have any psychological conditions that would prohibit service and the likelihood of getting a service-terminating injury is pretty low.
It really does look like you're going to have to ride out your contract.
Basically, my AFSC (13S) was overmanned, and they started offering folks the 'blue to green' crap for a $10K bonus. I waited a bit longer, and they started offering MEGA$ to leave (and I did after 9 years). So my advice is to grab every AF Times you can, and start reading up on those programs, or start hounding your AFRC recruiter about Palace Chase, etc.
Just remember that just getting off AD and going reserves isn't going to magically make you invulnerable for deployments. In fact, the opposite is true. A good buddy of mine was SF, and got out in order to not have to deploy for the third time in 3 years. He goes reserves, and within 3 months, he was back in the desert anyways.
Final bit of advice: Whatever you do, make SURE you get an honorable discharge! Not an 'other than honorable conditions' or 'general discharge' for claiming you are gay, doing drugs, etc. Anything you gets goes on your permanent employment/background record, and will haunt you for the rest of your life. If will fuck up your chances of getting/keeping a security clearance (which is big money on the outside), or many positions in any company that does a background check (so, every company these days).
Don't fuck yourself over. As much as it sucks, the best option may be to stick it out. Military experience is quite valuable these days, even if it sucks while you're in.
I know that when the Navy was overmanned they had a prgram to seperate three months early if you wanted. I wonder if the Air Force might have a similar option right now.
She decided, as time went on, that the best thing to do is suck it up and endure. It sucks to live through, but if you don't finish it up, you've got nothing to show for it. For her, it's education. For you, it's vet benefits and job experience. Even though you dislike what you're doing, you should think of it as a known evil -- only 2.5 years to go, and then you're free. My wife's end date is nebulous, pushed back a month here or a month there due to stupid shit.
While I agree that an extreme dislike of your "boss's boss's boss" is valid, I've heard from a few disgruntled enlisted men that they get by through looking more locally, more through their actions day to day and how they're helping, rather than the political motivations of a larger administration that they have little effect over or contact with.
Although in my few years I have seen a lot of honorable discharges due to alcohol and drugs and underage sex and gay sex and insanity so I am really confused on what is considered honarable.
Um, I thought the US military has a "don't ask don't tell" policy, and has done since the early 90s? In which case that would be bollocks, no?
Do you actually know what you are talking about, or are you speculating?
He does, sort of. The form basically reads
"We're not asking, but if we were, you're not gay, right?"
So generally, thats a poor choice.
However, the AF is currently trying to downsize. Ask your people about voluntary force-shaping. I don't know what conditions you'd be let go under, but it happens all the time especially in over manned AFSC's.
Side note: 6 months until I commission as a 2nd Lt! woot!
I would imagine the fact there is a question on sexuality at all could pretty easily be shown to be prejudicial.
The US military is essentially exempt from all that. It's stupid. We know. There's probably an ongoing thread in D&D about it.
Here is an idea. How about you freaking honor it. If you have an issue with doing what you promised to do you probably should have thought about that before you signed on and took that big old reenlistment check. Or before you signed up in the first place and took the money and the training and the health care.
The best advice you need is a reality check. If you want to talk to some one who is really having a hard time in a war zone. That gets to deal with not only being shot at everyday and being away from their family and having IEDs go off in and around their platoon, while at the same time their wife back in the states has filed for divorce and taken his child. I have a marine friend that can perhaps give you a new perspective on how sorry you really have it in the airforce.
If you are having legitimate concerns about yourself or family. There are fleet and family services you can use and go to. What it sounds like you need is a nice persecription of Suck it the fuck up.
Keep in mind, Chaplain = confidential, base lawyer = NOT confidential.
From what I remember, the form that you fill out at MEPS before you go to Basic basically goes like this:
"We're not asking you nor do we care if you're gay, but by signing this you agree to not conduct homosexual acts while in the armed forces"
And then it goes on to state what constitutes a homosexual act, which is basically PDA with the same sex, any sexual contact with the same sex, etc. etc. etc.
As for you deciding to get out, I'd advise against it. You'll most likely end up fucking yourself over for the rest of your life and, as many people have already pointed out, you DID sign a contract to do this. Honor it.
I don't know how confidential a chaplain is. I've heard that if you go and tell your chaplain "you know, I was in the shower the other day and I started to have these really strange thoughts about the other guys in there...", a week later out of the blue, so to say, you're given a discharge.
Extremely fucking confidential, moron.
Of course, if this happens your chaplain is a douchebag. But I imagine it does happen.
Anyway, I'm going to say that your best bet is likely to ride out your time. Barring a debilitating injury, or the Air Force deciding they're overmanned and want you to leave pretty much any attempt to get out of your contract early probably runs a risk of blowing up in your face, putting a black mark on your record, and fucking with whatever benefits you've earned. It sucks, but that's why you sign a contract...so you can't just quit anytime.
And while his tone made me want to slap the shit out of him, I have to say Limp Moose has a point; Air Force deployments are nowhere near as long or dangerous as those of the Army or Marines. 18 months straight away from home, and riding up and down the roads of Iraq waiting to get blown up would give you a whole new perspective on what you can and cannot handle. I have little doubt the Air Force sucks, but you really don't have it all that bad in comparison. Just finish it up.
I already have deployed to the desert. I've put my time in the war zone and I have served off base, I have been shot at and I have been near IED explosions. As a matter of fact I am SF (Security Forces) and we are now primarily placed with the Army to do jobs they cant fill. If I had wanted to do what the Army does, I would have joined the Army. I didnt join the USAF just to be neatly slid into an army billet with ILO postings.
I really dont care about your marine friend. He knew what he was getting into going into that service, there is a reason they have the lowest ASVAB scores to get into it. You cant compare Air Force to Marines anyway and Im not likening what Im going through to what your friend is. As for my commitment, I have already said I will honor it if I cant find a legal and honorable way to get out. I think you need to get off your high horse, esp. if you yourself arent enlisted or have never served. I have served my country and I continue to serve my country. Have you ?
I would have said exactly the same thing, except the bloke appears to be a Navy helo driver, who aside from being hats, aren't all such bad types. Limp Moose, you might note that you actually have served before going off on one, I'm sure you would get a bit punchy if someone you thought was a civvy gave you that lecture.
You dont think other people get tired? You dont think everyone wants to go fucking home? Who do you think you are some special little snowflake that is tired so its ok to find some legal loophole to shirk your duty? Thats great you dont care about my marine friend. But that doesnt mean you couldnt learn a whole hell of a lot from him. Honor courage commitment?
And way to bust out the asvab scores there hero. I am sure I dont need to stick up for any marines reading this but scores aside you wouldnt see any marines in here whining and looking for a way to shirk their duty.
I didnt come in here to be a dick but you need a wake up call.