I played on dial-up for 6 months or so, and I found it so laggy that even 5 mans weren't doable. Soloing was all I could really do with any reliability, and I was fair game for anyone wanting some free honor. Lucky for me I got a better internet connection about the same time I hit Outland.
What should I know about this post-expansion pack world?
Tons of new factions to get rep with, but you get at least 1500+ rep per run for the associated faction in the level 70 dungeons.
Overall the quests are a lot more interesting and involved than pre-BC.
Daily quests (doable once per day, you can do 10 dailies per day) that give plenty of gold - usually 12 gold per quest. 25 gold and two badges for the heroic daily.
Well, some months ago we did a few bosses in AQ20 with seven people. Could probably have done it with less, but some wanted in just for the nostalgia. :P
Current high-end is Black Temple, of which about 3% of guilds are in. Blizzard sure seems to repeat the mistake they did with Naxxramas.
Leveling just got a boost in the latest patch - 20-60 require 15% less xp per level, 30-60 give you more xp from quests. I can do two levels a day on my druid, currently 44.
I guess I could see 10 or so people running MC to try for the Legendary Weaps, along with Naxx for the ambiance. We actually took a raid to get our GM his Atiesh (which required a run back to AQ40).
HalfmexI mock your value systemYou also appear foolish in the eyes of othersRegistered Userregular
edited December 2007
So, I (a Kara'd-out rogue) ran Botanica a few times with a few (equally-geared) people from my guild yesterday, and something very odd happened.
The Ret. paladin fucking crushed me on the damage meter. I'm not talking by a few percent. 12-15 fucking percent. Now, it should be noted that he's quite admirably geared (Kara, some T4 and even T5 shoulders I think), but even so...a fucking Ret. Pally! Come the fuck on! He AoE tanked the joint, so I know his consecrate (or whatever it was) made up for a chunk of that, but how in the hell do I not even get within 12 percent of him the whole time? I usually top the charts in Kara and I'm top 2-3 in Gruuls.
Ret paladins can do amazing damage. Our guild's token ret pally is usually in the top 5 for fights that arent skewed one way or the other (Ranged fight or melee fight)
Unknown User on
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HalfmexI mock your value systemYou also appear foolish in the eyes of othersRegistered Userregular
edited December 2007
I guess I just didn't get the memo. I remember reading about Ret. paladins complaining about their damage a while ago, and apparently it was adjusted at some point, but I had no idea they went from "ha ha" to "Holy fuckballs" in the span of a few months.
I'd say Black Temple is more forgiving then Naxx was. BT features a fair few fights that require the whole raid to perform decently, but almost nothing requires exceptional skill, except maybe tanking the flames in p2 Illidan. Honestly, I think raidprogress in TBC was stiffled by many things:
1) Early raiding being 10man, then later raiding being 25man. This caused a huge amount of kara guilds, who had huge trouble getting members/class balance for 25mans.
2) Ridicilous attunement requirements (Now mostly defunct). To get into The Eye, you needed, if i'm not mistaken, do in total about 25 quests, the last of which were heroics (one of which was a timed run, which before heroic nerf was anything but trivial), and then kill Magtheridon (who also was very hard at the start of TBC). It created an image of "Raiding T5 content is only for the hardcore no-lifers", and made sure many people didn't even consider raiding because of the huge time/effort input before it began to reap benefits. Attunement for BT/Hyjal guilds is now mostly the same issue. My current guild needs 1-2 more shadowpriests, but we can't get any with vials, and during xmas we will not be able to muster interest into SSC/The Eye (Both of which have been run 5x now to attune new members over the last 3 months, and people are really really tired of it), so even if we find any, we can't bring them in for 2 weeks to come at least.
3) Blizzards policy of releasing bosses hard, and then nerfing them later on. Gruul and Magtheridon had a big dose of this, but many bosses have been nerfed since inception. Similar things happened earlier on with WoW raids. This is incredibly demotivating for raidguilds. Targets that are unfairly hard, especially early on in the raiding order (especially attunement days), make it unattractive to join guilds that are on these bosses, and unattractive for a guild to spend a lot of time on these bosses.
4) Bad itemization. Kara epics used to be worse then blues, when kara just came out. PvP epics, especially weapons, were and are still better in some cases then all but te rarest of drops. Some classes have huge gaps between upgrades, sometimes nothing between t4 and t6 content. Tailoring epics especially last all the way into t6, and in 1 case are even best in game. Again, huge demotivators.
5) Bad trash. SSC/The Eye suffers greatly from trash that can wipe your raid very easily, for a variety of reasons. Designers really went overboard with knockback/Silence/Stun/AoE abilities on trash, making it needlessly tedious and unfun to fight them (Note that BT and Hyjal handle this much better imho). Furthermore, respawn times are uniformly set to 2 hours, meaning every night of tries on a boss will consist for at least 25% of clearing trash.
6) Long Bosses. TBC 25man raiding, again especially t5 content, has a lot of bosses that take a long time to kill. Typical time is 8-10 minutes, with many fights doubling that. (A'lar, Lurker, Tidewalker, Kael'Thas and Vashj will all clock 12-15+ mins on first kills) This leaves a lot of room for stupid mistakes to wipe you. Adding length to a fight isn't really a measure of skill, it just measures the ability of noone fucking up, or getting unlucky (or lag / dc's). This also makes the # of attempts / raid lower, meaning each mistake is costlier. Again, a demotivator.
its very gear dependant, and a good portion of the ret paladins out there have no clue how to gear their character.
Heck, I'm a good paladin, and I feel pretty damn confused. Blizzard changed a fundamental way about how retribution works, but the itemization is unchanged. wtf?
Sander I'm in total agreement about the attunement thing. My guild just moved to a server where we are the only people who have killed Vashj, and only a handful from our guild have killed Kael. Any recruit we pick up from this point forward is going to have to be attuned, which after a while is just going to be browbeating.
Personally, I'd like to see it be guild based attunement instead of individual based, but to counteract that have the attunement process longer. This makes up for the need to consistently run lower content to get people into the dungeons you want them for, but keeps the challenge there for the guild as a whole.
its very gear dependant, and a good portion of the ret paladins out there have no clue how to gear their character.
Heck, I'm a good paladin, and I feel pretty damn confused. Blizzard changed a fundamental way about how retribution works, but the itemization is unchanged. wtf?
Well, pretty much unchanged, but I guess a good portion of the ret paladins out there, both before AND after, didn't know how to gear properly.
Speaking of, how DOES a ret paladin gear properly? I'm up to level 37 on mine, and more crit seems to be the way to go with Vengeance (up to 18.32% crit at the moment), but does that change somewhere down the line?
Well, there's a point where your crit rate ensures that you have three stacks of vengeance up all the time. I have pretty average blue ret gear apart from Deep Thunder and 2-3 Kara epics, but I still have 28% crit with Crusader judged. :P
At this point I feel it more worth to stack attack power, giving me more damage on non-crits and by extension crits as well.
So ret paladins want to items similer to dps warriors? I only ask cause my wife just rolled a pally and is loving the hell out it. I want to know how she should itemise.
Mild Confusion on
Battlenet ID: MildC#11186 - If I'm in the game, send me an invite at anytime and I'll play.
Now, I can't access armory here at work, and I've been told that the gear might not be correct (by matching up with reps etc.).
So with that being said, what are some easy upgrades to the stuff that is there? Being short on non-paladin healers, we're working on gearing up some new ones as soon as possible.
So ret paladins want to items similer to dps warriors? I only ask cause my wife just rolled a pally and is loving the hell out it. I want to know how she should itemise.
yeah, at this point don't even attempt to find gear with spell damage
something to stay away from is mp5: it eats up a lot of item value, and it isn't viable on ret gear at all at this point
Little Jim on
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EvilBadmanDO NOT TRUST THIS MANRegistered Userregular
So ret paladins want to items similer to dps warriors? I only ask cause my wife just rolled a pally and is loving the hell out it. I want to know how she should itemise.
yeah, at this point don't even attempt to find gear with spell damage
something to stay away from is mp5: it eats up a lot of item value, and it isn't viable on ret gear at all at this point
A friend of mine has his ret Pally at lv 57 capable of hitting upwards of 400 Str with a Crusader proc.
I just need to pull him into some more quests so he can wreak havoc in Outlands.
I wasn't sure if she should go Str > Int > Sta > Agil or Str > Sta > Int > Sta
And does AP work the same way with paladins as it does with warriors? One STr equals two AP? And does normalisation work the same way as well?
Mild Confusion on
Battlenet ID: MildC#11186 - If I'm in the game, send me an invite at anytime and I'll play.
0
Munkus BeaverYou don't have to attend every argument you are invited to.Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPAregular
its very gear dependant, and a good portion of the ret paladins out there have no clue how to gear their character.
Heck, I'm a good paladin, and I feel pretty damn confused. Blizzard changed a fundamental way about how retribution works, but the itemization is unchanged. wtf?
Well, if you crunch the numbers, it was almost always better to go for generic warrior stuff over paladin stuff (except you'd miss out on INT for you mana pool).
And ret paladins are EXTREMELY gear dependant. My utility has jumped up a ton after I got the s1 gladiator sword and gear.
Munkus Beaver on
Humor can be dissected as a frog can, but dies in the process.
Been getting that damn WoW itch again, I've quite two times before, even bought a copy of Lord of the Rings which I've yet to play since I was so busy working. Now with lots of time off and my new computer I'm resisting the urge to jump back in....the damn still has it's talons in me though, I've spent over 200 bucks on the freaking cards, bought the four WoW figures that came out lately and oh yeah....I got two extremely rare cards.
Namely two of these:
Which gives you this:
Makes me wonder what I'll do with the spare one. Maybe I'll trade it for a drop one day in some instance that I want badly if I pick up the game again.
Now, I can't access armory here at work, and I've been told that the gear might not be correct (by matching up with reps etc.).
So with that being said, what are some easy upgrades to the stuff that is there? Being short on non-paladin healers, we're working on gearing up some new ones as soon as possible.
(btw UDL is recruiting on ravenholdt!)
Well, since he has no talents, I can't tell what you want to do with him, but I'll assume healing based off the context of your post. Well, let's get started.
1. The first thing you'll want to shoot for is a good healing weapon. If money isn't an object, and you don't feel like running instances with this guy, buy The Essence Focuser. If you DO wish to run instances, I suggest shooting for Hammer of the Penitent, which drops off the first boss of the Mechinar. That, or save some honor for a S1 weapon.
2. He's 3k rep away from revered with the Lower City. I suggest running him through Sethekk & Slabs until he's revered, then buy 2 Lower City Prayerbooks.
3. He's already revered with the Cenarion Expedition. Have him buy a Watcher's Cowl. This will last him until he gets the T4 helmet.
4. You're going to be hard-pressed to find good shammy healing boots in pre-raid AND T4 content. I suggest PvPing with him and save your honor for Veteran's Kodohide Boots. They're useful for both PvP AND PvE.
5. The 2 other piece that require immediate attention are the shoulders and the pants. Pre-heroic & raid, I used Vestia's Pauldrons of Inner Grace. But for these two, I suggest doing your own research and finding what's best.
I have other tips, but those should significantly improve his healing. Remember, if you're having a hard time getting him good gear, get the honor gear. It's not as good for raiding as some upgrades you can get off 5-mans, but it's easier to get and will probably be better than what he has.
I'm so god damn in favor of the daily heroic quest. Before they added that I had done one heroic, ever. While I don't do the heroic daily every day, we sometimes go on a binge and do three heroics in a row. :^:
I quit playing WoW before the expansion came out, but am probably going to resub again shortly, but I'm curious about one point: does buying the expansion yield a month of play time? Or is it going to be $45 to come back and play again? =x
The Ressurrection Scroll dealy doesn't circumvent having to buy the expansion after, either, I assume. (Hey, one could hope, since they're swimming in money now =p)
...how would that work if you decided to resubscribe at the end of those 10 days, but not buy the expansion? Just be locked out of any Blood elf/draenei characters you made, and have to petition to get any old chars out of expansion zones if you were lazy or forgot to move before it ran out?
I'm so god damn in favor of the daily heroic quest. Before they added that I had done one heroic, ever. While I don't do the heroic daily every day, we sometimes go on a binge and do three heroics in a row. :^:
It's especially fun if you're a necessary class, like Mage CC or Healing or tanking.
Being a mage with a warrior and Priest friend, I do a lot of heroics with my guild.
Not to mention our inundation of warriors, druids, and Shaman.
I'm so god damn in favor of the daily heroic quest. Before they added that I had done one heroic, ever. While I don't do the heroic daily every day, we sometimes go on a binge and do three heroics in a row. :^:
It's especially fun if you're a necessary class, like Mage CC or Healing or tanking.
Being a mage with a warrior and Priest friend, I do a lot of heroics with my guild.
Not to mention our inundation of warriors, druids, and Shaman.
Our guild maintank is a paladin with 21k hp, and his favourite past time to unwind after raids is to set records for how quickly we can do heroics. Our record for Slave Pens is 34 minutes, our record for Mechanar is about 35 minutes including Sepethrea. Whenever he's on and we can get our main healer, we usually hit up Underbog first, blow through that in abotu 40 minutes, then hit up Slave Pens, then Mechanar, then I portal us all to Thunder Bluff and we hit up Black Morass. All up about two and a half hours. 14 badges from that, plus four Primal Nethers for our crafters, and usually a couple decent gem drops too, plus a whole heap of shards for the guild bank. Usually its actually 16 badges, because when you're doing four heroics, the chances of one of those being the daily is quite high.
I'm so god damn in favor of the daily heroic quest. Before they added that I had done one heroic, ever. While I don't do the heroic daily every day, we sometimes go on a binge and do three heroics in a row. :^:
It's especially fun if you're a necessary class, like Mage CC or Healing or tanking.
Being a mage with a warrior and Priest friend, I do a lot of heroics with my guild.
Not to mention our inundation of warriors, druids, and Shaman.
My main is a holy priest, my tankadin just got geared enough for heroics and I'm leveling a mage to replace my hunter as my dps alt. So.....yay me?
Well the Verne Troyer commercial is up on the main site now.
They should've had him be a warlock, since there was already a mage one (granted, not in the States, but still...). I thought this one was the weakest. Poo.
Posts
I haven't even logged in yet, and I already feel overwhelmed.
What should I know about this post-expansion pack world?
Tons of new factions to get rep with, but you get at least 1500+ rep per run for the associated faction in the level 70 dungeons.
Overall the quests are a lot more interesting and involved than pre-BC.
Daily quests (doable once per day, you can do 10 dailies per day) that give plenty of gold - usually 12 gold per quest. 25 gold and two badges for the heroic daily.
What is the highest end dungeon?
Are places like MC just run through easily like UBRS now?
Highest dungeon is black temple, highest boss is Illidan.
Who'd want to run MC when there are green quest rewards which are higher in terms of item level? (I tried not to sound like a dick)
If you check the wow site, there's probably a wealth of more detailed info, per expansion and per patch.
Edit: A level 70 can solo the level 60 5-mans.
Current high-end is Black Temple, of which about 3% of guilds are in.
Leveling just got a boost in the latest patch - 20-60 require 15% less xp per level, 30-60 give you more xp from quests. I can do two levels a day on my druid, currently 44.
The Ret. paladin fucking crushed me on the damage meter. I'm not talking by a few percent. 12-15 fucking percent. Now, it should be noted that he's quite admirably geared (Kara, some T4 and even T5 shoulders I think), but even so...a fucking Ret. Pally! Come the fuck on! He AoE tanked the joint, so I know his consecrate (or whatever it was) made up for a chunk of that, but how in the hell do I not even get within 12 percent of him the whole time? I usually top the charts in Kara and I'm top 2-3 in Gruuls.
1) Early raiding being 10man, then later raiding being 25man. This caused a huge amount of kara guilds, who had huge trouble getting members/class balance for 25mans.
2) Ridicilous attunement requirements (Now mostly defunct). To get into The Eye, you needed, if i'm not mistaken, do in total about 25 quests, the last of which were heroics (one of which was a timed run, which before heroic nerf was anything but trivial), and then kill Magtheridon (who also was very hard at the start of TBC). It created an image of "Raiding T5 content is only for the hardcore no-lifers", and made sure many people didn't even consider raiding because of the huge time/effort input before it began to reap benefits. Attunement for BT/Hyjal guilds is now mostly the same issue. My current guild needs 1-2 more shadowpriests, but we can't get any with vials, and during xmas we will not be able to muster interest into SSC/The Eye (Both of which have been run 5x now to attune new members over the last 3 months, and people are really really tired of it), so even if we find any, we can't bring them in for 2 weeks to come at least.
3) Blizzards policy of releasing bosses hard, and then nerfing them later on. Gruul and Magtheridon had a big dose of this, but many bosses have been nerfed since inception. Similar things happened earlier on with WoW raids. This is incredibly demotivating for raidguilds. Targets that are unfairly hard, especially early on in the raiding order (especially attunement days), make it unattractive to join guilds that are on these bosses, and unattractive for a guild to spend a lot of time on these bosses.
4) Bad itemization. Kara epics used to be worse then blues, when kara just came out. PvP epics, especially weapons, were and are still better in some cases then all but te rarest of drops. Some classes have huge gaps between upgrades, sometimes nothing between t4 and t6 content. Tailoring epics especially last all the way into t6, and in 1 case are even best in game. Again, huge demotivators.
5) Bad trash. SSC/The Eye suffers greatly from trash that can wipe your raid very easily, for a variety of reasons. Designers really went overboard with knockback/Silence/Stun/AoE abilities on trash, making it needlessly tedious and unfun to fight them (Note that BT and Hyjal handle this much better imho). Furthermore, respawn times are uniformly set to 2 hours, meaning every night of tries on a boss will consist for at least 25% of clearing trash.
6) Long Bosses. TBC 25man raiding, again especially t5 content, has a lot of bosses that take a long time to kill. Typical time is 8-10 minutes, with many fights doubling that. (A'lar, Lurker, Tidewalker, Kael'Thas and Vashj will all clock 12-15+ mins on first kills) This leaves a lot of room for stupid mistakes to wipe you. Adding length to a fight isn't really a measure of skill, it just measures the ability of noone fucking up, or getting unlucky (or lag / dc's). This also makes the # of attempts / raid lower, meaning each mistake is costlier. Again, a demotivator.
Heck, I'm a good paladin, and I feel pretty damn confused. Blizzard changed a fundamental way about how retribution works, but the itemization is unchanged. wtf?
Personally, I'd like to see it be guild based attunement instead of individual based, but to counteract that have the attunement process longer. This makes up for the need to consistently run lower content to get people into the dungeons you want them for, but keeps the challenge there for the guild as a whole.
Well, pretty much unchanged, but I guess a good portion of the ret paladins out there, both before AND after, didn't know how to gear properly.
Speaking of, how DOES a ret paladin gear properly? I'm up to level 37 on mine, and more crit seems to be the way to go with Vengeance (up to 18.32% crit at the moment), but does that change somewhere down the line?
At this point I feel it more worth to stack attack power, giving me more damage on non-crits and by extension crits as well.
a little bit of int helps a long the way, but it is in no way a priority
Battlenet ID: MildC#11186 - If I'm in the game, send me an invite at anytime and I'll play.
A friend of mine is taking over this Shaman.
Now, I can't access armory here at work, and I've been told that the gear might not be correct (by matching up with reps etc.).
So with that being said, what are some easy upgrades to the stuff that is there? Being short on non-paladin healers, we're working on gearing up some new ones as soon as possible.
(btw UDL is recruiting on ravenholdt!)
yeah, at this point don't even attempt to find gear with spell damage
something to stay away from is mp5: it eats up a lot of item value, and it isn't viable on ret gear at all at this point
Yeah, don't expect to raid though, because there's no way in hell you can Ventrilo and WoW without lag.
A friend of mine has his ret Pally at lv 57 capable of hitting upwards of 400 Str with a Crusader proc.
I just need to pull him into some more quests so he can wreak havoc in Outlands.
I wasn't sure if she should go Str > Int > Sta > Agil or Str > Sta > Int > Sta
And does AP work the same way with paladins as it does with warriors? One STr equals two AP? And does normalisation work the same way as well?
Battlenet ID: MildC#11186 - If I'm in the game, send me an invite at anytime and I'll play.
Well, if you crunch the numbers, it was almost always better to go for generic warrior stuff over paladin stuff (except you'd miss out on INT for you mana pool).
And ret paladins are EXTREMELY gear dependant. My utility has jumped up a ton after I got the s1 gladiator sword and gear.
Namely two of these:
Which gives you this:
Makes me wonder what I'll do with the spare one. Maybe I'll trade it for a drop one day in some instance that I want badly if I pick up the game again.
Well, since he has no talents, I can't tell what you want to do with him, but I'll assume healing based off the context of your post. Well, let's get started.
1. The first thing you'll want to shoot for is a good healing weapon. If money isn't an object, and you don't feel like running instances with this guy, buy The Essence Focuser. If you DO wish to run instances, I suggest shooting for Hammer of the Penitent, which drops off the first boss of the Mechinar. That, or save some honor for a S1 weapon.
2. He's 3k rep away from revered with the Lower City. I suggest running him through Sethekk & Slabs until he's revered, then buy 2 Lower City Prayerbooks.
3. He's already revered with the Cenarion Expedition. Have him buy a Watcher's Cowl. This will last him until he gets the T4 helmet.
4. You're going to be hard-pressed to find good shammy healing boots in pre-raid AND T4 content. I suggest PvPing with him and save your honor for Veteran's Kodohide Boots. They're useful for both PvP AND PvE.
5. The 2 other piece that require immediate attention are the shoulders and the pants. Pre-heroic & raid, I used Vestia's Pauldrons of Inner Grace. But for these two, I suggest doing your own research and finding what's best.
I have other tips, but those should significantly improve his healing. Remember, if you're having a hard time getting him good gear, get the honor gear. It's not as good for raiding as some upgrades you can get off 5-mans, but it's easier to get and will probably be better than what he has.
Steam: pazython
...how would that work if you decided to resubscribe at the end of those 10 days, but not buy the expansion? Just be locked out of any Blood elf/draenei characters you made, and have to petition to get any old chars out of expansion zones if you were lazy or forgot to move before it ran out?
It's especially fun if you're a necessary class, like Mage CC or Healing or tanking.
Being a mage with a warrior and Priest friend, I do a lot of heroics with my guild.
Not to mention our inundation of warriors, druids, and Shaman.
Our guild maintank is a paladin with 21k hp, and his favourite past time to unwind after raids is to set records for how quickly we can do heroics. Our record for Slave Pens is 34 minutes, our record for Mechanar is about 35 minutes including Sepethrea. Whenever he's on and we can get our main healer, we usually hit up Underbog first, blow through that in abotu 40 minutes, then hit up Slave Pens, then Mechanar, then I portal us all to Thunder Bluff and we hit up Black Morass. All up about two and a half hours. 14 badges from that, plus four Primal Nethers for our crafters, and usually a couple decent gem drops too, plus a whole heap of shards for the guild bank. Usually its actually 16 badges, because when you're doing four heroics, the chances of one of those being the daily is quite high.
Yeah, but $30 + $15 for the month to resubscribe = $45.
Just kinda short on money, so I was trying to explore any kind of possibility to save a penny or two
My main is a holy priest, my tankadin just got geared enough for heroics and I'm leveling a mage to replace my hunter as my dps alt. So.....yay me?
I guess you could grab a trial disk, but you won't get any access to the expansion.
They should've had him be a warlock, since there was already a mage one (granted, not in the States, but still...). I thought this one was the weakest. Poo.
Steam: pazython