Maybe if he had used GameSpot Trax he would've known K&L sucks shit. More than likely he has never touched the game.
The funny thing is, his entire discussion there is about what games will sell, or how to get them to sell in terms of reaching the market. Just because something sells doesn't mean that it necessarily deserves or gets a high review score.
Funny, I had noticed that alot of Gamespot reviews take like a week after the games out to come up. And now that I think about it, most of them were for anticipated games that didn't get high scores.
Funny, I had noticed that alot of Gamespot reviews take like a week after the games out to come up. And now that I think about it, most of them were for anticipated games that didn't get high scores.
I waited what seemed like forever for the review of FF3 for the DS. It came out on the 14th and the review did not go up until the 29th. It got a 7.9 and that's on GameSpot's 'new' scale.
It is no easy task winning a 1v3. You must jump many a hurdle, bettering three armies, the smallest.
Aye, no mere man may win an uphill battle against thrice your men, it takes a courageous heart and will that makes steel look like copper. When you are that, then, and only then, may you win a 1v3.
take the hyphen out of the "c-om" in the addy link. Neogaf has their filters set up to not allow Gamespot.com on their forums. I cut and paste, forgot the user had put in a hyphen to get around the filter. (fixed broken link in initial post)
Aaron also just put something up:
Coming through loud and clear...
I feel like I need to say something but I don't know what to say, or what I can say. This has been a difficult week. The current situation hurts GameSpot, me, you, and anyone who has ever read or written for the site. I've read the rumors, gotten your emails, browsed the forums, and visited the websites reporting the news/rumors/speculation. I can't comment on any of that. After all, I'm still a GameSpot employee and there are certain things I can't discuss as an employee. This isn't GameSpot suddenly clamping down on me or any of us here--this is how it is for anyone with a job. If you work at Wal-Mart and you have an issue with management you can't go to the media yapping about it and management can't go to the media complaining about your performance. It's what I agreed to when I signed on over a year ago.
I'm not making excuses for GameSpot. I'm just trying to explain why your questions haven't been answered directly by the GameSpot staff--we can't. Just know that your voices have been heard by the folks that bring you the news, previews, editorials, features, reviews, and video. I can't speak for anyone but myself, but it's been an incredibly difficult and emotional week. Thank you to those of you with supportive things to say. And to those of you that don't feel like there's any reason to be supportive, I understand that as well. Hopefully we all get through this. We'll see...
*Edit: I appreciate the sympathetic comments to this post, but I want to make it clear that I didn't write this because I was looking out for myself. I wrote it for you, so you would know that there are people out there that hear you and care about what you're saying.
Wow.. that all sounds about as serious as we're making it out to be.
Also, I think I find it good to see the news reported on 1UP and Eurogamer too, and them actually seemingly treating it seriously.
That anonymous "Gamespot" editor comments floating around?
Found another version from Go Nintendo ... longer than the one we've seen already:
From GoNintendo:
picked up on a commenter over at GameSpot that is calling himself...GameSpot. If this guy is the real deal, he has unleashed a ton of info on the situation. Read ahead, but keep in mind that it may be nothing more than rumor.
The main problem here is that no one in the entire editorial team was aware that this was about to occur, least of all Gerstmann. We're very clear in our review policies that all reviews are vetted by the entire team before they go live - everything that goes up is the product of an entire team's output. Our freelancers are especially guilty of making snide comments, but those are always yanked before the review goes live, because everyone in the office reads these reviews and makes sure they're up to our standards before they get put up.
If there was a problem with his reviews, then it would've been a problem with the entire team. Firing him without telling anyone implies that anyone else on this team can be fired at the drop of a hat as well, because none of us are writing any differently or meaner or less professionally than we were two years ago before the management changed. I'm sure management wants to spin this as the G-Man being unprofessional to take away from the egg on their face that results after a ten-year employee gets locked out of his office and told to leave the premises and then no one communicates anything to us about it until the next day.
Also, despite the fact that this occured two weeks ago, there was no way they were going to fire him then; the last big games didn't come out until just before Thanksgiving, and there was no doubt that management knew that the rest of the reviewers would refuse to write any reviews after his termination, which is indeed what is happening. After thanksgiving nothing major comes out in games; everything is either before thanksgiving or comes out in January. They waited to fire him until they knew that any strike or walkout by the rest of the staff wouldn't have much of an effect.
Also, keep in mind that these salespeople do have axes to grind with editorial. I know a lot of people busted their asses to get not only this large deal with Eidos done, but also other huge ad deals. The salespeople and the marketers are the ones who have to deal with the publishers when a heavily-advertised game gets a bad review, so obviously they like it if every game that comes out is peachy keen and gets a 9.0 or above. If a salesperson knows anything about unprofessional review practices, then that says a lot about the management team that we have in place because not a single other member of the editorial team had heard word one about this until Jeff was fired. Surely site management would want to let us know about their concerns before firing the most senior staff member and one of the most respected game critics in the industry? If they're sharing their concerns with the salespeople and not with us then that says a lot about their priorities.
No one wants to be named because no one wants to get **** fired! This management team has shown what they're willing to do. Jeff had ten years in and was **** locked out of his office and told to leave the building.
What you might not be aware of is that GS is well known for appealing mostly to hardcore gamers. The mucky-mucks have been doing a lot of "brand research" over the last year or so and indicating that they want to reach out to more casual gamers. Our last executive editor, Greg Kasavin, left to go to EA, and he was replaced by a suit, Josh Larson, who had no editorial experience and was only involved on the business side of things. Over the last year there has been an increasing amount of pressure to allow the advertising teams to have more of a say in the editorial process; we've started having to give our sales team heads-ups when a game is getting a low score, for instance, so that they can let the advertisers know that before a review goes up. Other publishers have started giving us notes involving when our reviews can go up; if a game's getting a 9 or above, it can go up early; if not, it'll have to wait until after the game is on the shelves.
I was in the meeting where Josh Larson was trying to explain this firing and the guy had absolutely no response to any of the criticisms we were sending his way. He kept dodging the question, saying that there were "multiple instances of tone" in the reviews that he hadn't been happy about, but that wasn't Jeff's problem since we all vet every review. He also implied that "AAA" titles deserved more attention when they were being reviewed, which sounded to all of us that he was implying that they should get higher scores, especially since those titles are usually more highly advertised on our site.
I know that it's all about the money, and hey, I like money. I like advertising because it pays my salary. Unfortunately after Kasavin left the church-and-state separation between the sales teams and the editorial team has cracked, and with Jeff's firing I think it's clear that the management now has no interest at all in integrity and are instead looking for an editorial team that will be nicer to the advertisors.
When companies make games as downright contemptible as Kane and Lynch, they deserve to be called on it. I guess you'll have to go to Onion or a smaller site for objective reviews now, because everyone at GS now thinks that if they give a low score to a high-profile game, they'll be **** Everyone's **** scared and we're all hoping to get Josh Larson removed from his position because no one trusts him anymore. If that doesn't happen then look for every game to be Game of the Year material at GameSpot.
Yeah, the site is in serious trouble now. Half it's audience have just been turned off the site, and the advertising campaign they were trying to defend has bascially been burned to the ground now.
(edit: actually looks like the slashdot thing went up earlier today ... even so it's obvious this is exploding much worse than the suites at Gamespot anticipated ... much MUCH worse)
Bamelin on
0
ShogunHair long; money long; me and broke wizards we don't get alongRegistered Userregular
edited December 2007
I'm guessing it won't take long for Gerstmann to find a new job, hopefully a better job.
You know what? This is awesome. The backlash is huge, and is going to be damaging for GameSpot. It's sad that their editorial staff is going to suffer, but hopefully they'll find jobs at other, somewhat more honest sites.
It's awesome because the suits at the other big outlets are going to sit up in their leather chairs and say, "Oh shits, I guess people care about integrity more than we thought." I mean, money still comes first, and there'll still be shady practices, but you can bet this is going to change some tactics and make people more cautious.
I think this was a needed wake-up call, not necessarily for the editorial teams, but for the management of the media conglomorates that run the sites.
ShogunHair long; money long; me and broke wizards we don't get alongRegistered Userregular
edited December 2007
I will say I used to go to GameSpot as a good source for reviews. This was probably 4-5 years ago. As time went by I still went but I just began to take everything with more bags of salt simply because it was obvious to anyone with some scruples that the company was being overtaken by corporate sell-outs. I don't like to use that term because it makes me sound somewhat like tin-foil hat guy, but its true. If you look today whatever game they are pushing the main page is completely fucking covered with. Despite all this I still go there to get information about games and at least see what the reviewers have to say about whatever game I am interested in at the time.
This is a very disappoint turn of events, but its been coming now for a long time. I feel for Jeff because he is out of a job, but I am also confident that everyone in the gaming industry knows this reeks of corruption and horse-shit. I am also confident he is going to get a new, better job, and that Cnet Media is ultimately going to be sorry about this. It is a shitty situation, but it could be exactly what 'gaming journalism' has needed for a long time.
Poor Jeff...he didn't even get the cyber harem of robot sex slaves...
I don't know how useful it would be, but if people started using those Ad Feedback links and marking them all negative, then that might send a stronger message in addition to the account cancellations. I'm not sure who gets access to the data, but if the advertisers do get to see it, they'll freak out if they start seeing a ton of negative comments about their ads.
The most annoying ad and really... I want to fucking kill the guy who came up with it is the Ad that encloses a freaking screenshot that you may be looking at and then you have to find the XClose button
thedude_frombaywatch on
xbl tag: Dynamis King
MineCraft: Menetherin
Steam: Vloeza_SE++
While I completely agree that the timing seems tied to the Kane & Lynch review I just took the time to read a few of his reviews and personally don't see why so many people are saying that they actually trusted his opinion. He bitches that Zelda doesn't add much to the series and gives it an 8.8, but then gives Halo 3 a 9.5 which is guilty of exact same flaw. His review scores are flaky at best, bring up a list of his reviews and try to make sense of them - Halo 3 gets 9.5 but Bioshock gets a 9.0 and VF5 gets 8.5?
He really did seem hellbent to give a game a lower score than other sites just to throw off averages or to draw users and his reviews do seem extremely nitpicky and guilty of the overanalyzing and "playing just to get through the game" sin that Gabe & Tycho were just ranting against less than a week ago. Which is it? Do we want our reviewers to bitch and moan to the point that we can't tell if a game is actually fun or do we give publishers the ok to shitcan people that tend to be too critical?
While I completely agree that the timing seems tied to the Kane & Lynch review I just took the time to read a few of his reviews and personally don't see why so many people are saying that they actually trusted his opinion. He bitches that Zelda doesn't add much to the series and gives it an 8.8, but then gives Halo 3 a 9.5 which is guilty of exact same flaw. His review scores are flaky at best, bring up a list of his reviews and try to make sense of them - Halo 3 gets 9.5 but Bioshock gets a 9.0 and VF5 gets 8.5?
He really did seem hellbent to give a game a lower score than other sites just to throw off averages or to draw users and his reviews do seem extremely nitpicky and guilty of the overanalyzing and "playing just to get through the game" sin that Gabe & Tycho were just ranting against less than a week ago. Which is it? Do we want our reviewers to bitch and moan to the point that we can't tell if a game is actually fun or do we give publishers the ok to shitcan people that tend to be too critical?
That's a bit of a hard comparison. Halo started in 2001, and finished in 2007 (a span of 6 years). It's made some little innovations and told a (for some) compelling story. It also includes an almost obscene amount of content for a $50 game (Single-player, scoring, online or offline co-op with 2-4 players, multiplayer, and a fairly interesting level editor), far more than Zelda or Bioshock have.
Back to Zelda, for how many years have we been seeking the Master Sword, doing block puzzles, and tossing boomerangs? It's a difference in degree.
Keep in mind, Jeff also gave Halo 2 Vista a 7.0, so I don't see how he was lacking in credibility as far as Halo and Microsoft go.
While I completely agree that the timing seems tied to the Kane & Lynch review I just took the time to read a few of his reviews and personally don't see why so many people are saying that they actually trusted his opinion. He bitches that Zelda doesn't add much to the series and gives it an 8.8, but then gives Halo 3 a 9.5 which is guilty of exact same flaw. His review scores are flaky at best, bring up a list of his reviews and try to make sense of them - Halo 3 gets 9.5 but Bioshock gets a 9.0 and VF5 gets 8.5?
He really did seem hellbent to give a game a lower score than other sites just to throw off averages or to draw users and his reviews do seem extremely nitpicky and guilty of the overanalyzing and "playing just to get through the game" sin that Gabe & Tycho were just ranting against less than a week ago. Which is it? Do we want our reviewers to bitch and moan to the point that we can't tell if a game is actually fun or do we give publishers the ok to shitcan people that tend to be too critical?
Reviews are subjective, other then VF5 I'd have given all those games FAR lower scores for various reasons.
In the end when you read/watch a review you're tuning in to an opinion, it's neither right or wrong. But you should at least be able to trust the guy to call out crap when he thinks it's crap.
The problem with number scores is that they are COMPLETELY AND UTTERLY WORTHLESS, it's in the content (or what got his ass fired) the "tune" that gives you an impression.
To fuck all with scores, was it fun? Did you enjoy it? OK great, but if it sucked ass why?
Again I don't agree with most of what he says, but, hell, he could at least explain WHY.
waterlogged on
Democrat that will switch parties and turn red if Clinton is nominated.:P[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Posts
Reposting this here just because it sums up all the major developments pretty nicely in one post, for those looking to catch up.
One other Gamespot editor has responded (albeit in a very small blog post) in his blog as well: http://www.gamespot.com/users/Kevin-V/show_blog_entry.php?topic_id=m-100-25234747
The funny thing is, his entire discussion there is about what games will sell, or how to get them to sell in terms of reaching the market. Just because something sells doesn't mean that it necessarily deserves or gets a high review score.
Steam ID: slashx000______Twitter: @bill_at_zeboyd______ Facebook: Zeboyd Games
The Navarro link doesn't work..
I waited what seemed like forever for the review of FF3 for the DS. It came out on the 14th and the review did not go up until the 29th. It got a 7.9 and that's on GameSpot's 'new' scale.
Shogun Streams Vidya
http://www.gamespot.com/users/AlexN
http://steamcommunity.com/id/BlindProphet
take the hyphen out of the "c-om" in the addy link. Neogaf has their filters set up to not allow Gamespot.com on their forums. I cut and paste, forgot the user had put in a hyphen to get around the filter. (fixed broken link in initial post)
Aaron also just put something up:
Coming through loud and clear...
I feel like I need to say something but I don't know what to say, or what I can say. This has been a difficult week. The current situation hurts GameSpot, me, you, and anyone who has ever read or written for the site. I've read the rumors, gotten your emails, browsed the forums, and visited the websites reporting the news/rumors/speculation. I can't comment on any of that. After all, I'm still a GameSpot employee and there are certain things I can't discuss as an employee. This isn't GameSpot suddenly clamping down on me or any of us here--this is how it is for anyone with a job. If you work at Wal-Mart and you have an issue with management you can't go to the media yapping about it and management can't go to the media complaining about your performance. It's what I agreed to when I signed on over a year ago.
I'm not making excuses for GameSpot. I'm just trying to explain why your questions haven't been answered directly by the GameSpot staff--we can't. Just know that your voices have been heard by the folks that bring you the news, previews, editorials, features, reviews, and video. I can't speak for anyone but myself, but it's been an incredibly difficult and emotional week. Thank you to those of you with supportive things to say. And to those of you that don't feel like there's any reason to be supportive, I understand that as well. Hopefully we all get through this. We'll see...
*Edit: I appreciate the sympathetic comments to this post, but I want to make it clear that I didn't write this because I was looking out for myself. I wrote it for you, so you would know that there are people out there that hear you and care about what you're saying.
Also, I think I find it good to see the news reported on 1UP and Eurogamer too, and them actually seemingly treating it seriously.
Found another version from Go Nintendo ... longer than the one we've seen already:
From GoNintendo:
picked up on a commenter over at GameSpot that is calling himself...GameSpot. If this guy is the real deal, he has unleashed a ton of info on the situation. Read ahead, but keep in mind that it may be nothing more than rumor.
Edit: Grr, top'd without quoting. Read post just before mine.
Yeah, the site is in serious trouble now. Half it's audience have just been turned off the site, and the advertising campaign they were trying to defend has bascially been burned to the ground now.
XBL/PSN/Steam: APZonerunner
Steam ID: slashx000______Twitter: @bill_at_zeboyd______ Facebook: Zeboyd Games
It just hit slashdot
(edit: actually looks like the slashdot thing went up earlier today ... even so it's obvious this is exploding much worse than the suites at Gamespot anticipated ... much MUCH worse)
Shogun Streams Vidya
and it was still excellant then
Holy shit.
This is huge.
I give CNet the douchebag of the year award.
It's awesome because the suits at the other big outlets are going to sit up in their leather chairs and say, "Oh shits, I guess people care about integrity more than we thought." I mean, money still comes first, and there'll still be shady practices, but you can bet this is going to change some tactics and make people more cautious.
I think this was a needed wake-up call, not necessarily for the editorial teams, but for the management of the media conglomorates that run the sites.
Steam BoardGameGeek Twitter
This is a very disappoint turn of events, but its been coming now for a long time. I feel for Jeff because he is out of a job, but I am also confident that everyone in the gaming industry knows this reeks of corruption and horse-shit. I am also confident he is going to get a new, better job, and that Cnet Media is ultimately going to be sorry about this. It is a shitty situation, but it could be exactly what 'gaming journalism' has needed for a long time.
ugh my post #
Shogun Streams Vidya
I don't know how useful it would be, but if people started using those Ad Feedback links and marking them all negative, then that might send a stronger message in addition to the account cancellations. I'm not sure who gets access to the data, but if the advertisers do get to see it, they'll freak out if they start seeing a ton of negative comments about their ads.
Azulan Saul Tigh
Oh Destructoid you cads :P
Edit: the Destructoid parody is hilarious! This is huge! Easily the best Internet drama in months.
Steam BoardGameGeek Twitter
Someone edit that to PA forum sig standards and lets start a bandwagon.
Meh actually I don't care that much but if someone edits it I will adopt it as my sig.
Shogun Streams Vidya
MineCraft: Menetherin
Steam: Vloeza_SE++
EDIT: nm, I think it was too big. Fixed it up according to the rules sticky.
He really did seem hellbent to give a game a lower score than other sites just to throw off averages or to draw users and his reviews do seem extremely nitpicky and guilty of the overanalyzing and "playing just to get through the game" sin that Gabe & Tycho were just ranting against less than a week ago. Which is it? Do we want our reviewers to bitch and moan to the point that we can't tell if a game is actually fun or do we give publishers the ok to shitcan people that tend to be too critical?
It's too long, and slightly too tall, I think.
Ok, I figured. Fixed it and it should now be in my sig.
thanks for the resize
this should be a nice sig till this thing blows over and gamespot is reduced to a husk
That's a bit of a hard comparison. Halo started in 2001, and finished in 2007 (a span of 6 years). It's made some little innovations and told a (for some) compelling story. It also includes an almost obscene amount of content for a $50 game (Single-player, scoring, online or offline co-op with 2-4 players, multiplayer, and a fairly interesting level editor), far more than Zelda or Bioshock have.
Back to Zelda, for how many years have we been seeking the Master Sword, doing block puzzles, and tossing boomerangs? It's a difference in degree.
Keep in mind, Jeff also gave Halo 2 Vista a 7.0, so I don't see how he was lacking in credibility as far as Halo and Microsoft go.
Reviews are subjective, other then VF5 I'd have given all those games FAR lower scores for various reasons.
In the end when you read/watch a review you're tuning in to an opinion, it's neither right or wrong. But you should at least be able to trust the guy to call out crap when he thinks it's crap.
The problem with number scores is that they are COMPLETELY AND UTTERLY WORTHLESS, it's in the content (or what got his ass fired) the "tune" that gives you an impression.
To fuck all with scores, was it fun? Did you enjoy it? OK great, but if it sucked ass why?
Again I don't agree with most of what he says, but, hell, he could at least explain WHY.
Steam ID: slashx000______Twitter: @bill_at_zeboyd______ Facebook: Zeboyd Games
What does it say in the fine print under 9/10 for free? I can't make it out and my curiosity is destroying me.
Final Fantasy XI -> Carbuncle - Samash