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Why I will never trust downloadable content again. XBX360

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    taliosfalcontaliosfalcon Registered User regular
    edited December 2007
    Zetx wrote: »
    Funny you mention DRM since Galciv 2 has no copy protection, too bad that doesn't do you any good since a cd-key's required for patches.

    Last time I checked, the license is still heavily restricted and it is a primarily digitally distributed software title.

    The license is non-transferable and is tied to a Stardock account that you create and an email address. I think I recall needing to be connected to the Internet to play too, for verification, but my memory is a bit fuzzy on that, so maybe I'm not remembering properly.

    Sure it doesn't have Starforce or anything like that, but it still has some of the weaknesses that digital distro currently has, as a whole.
    yeah you need to activate it online, but you can activate it on as many machines as you want. And Zetx is mad because he can't patch his pirated copy of GalCiv2? i'm really going to shed some tears for him over how the evil corporations are screwing him over now :|

    taliosfalcon on
    steam xbox - adeptpenguin
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    ZekZek Registered User regular
    edited December 2007
    This isn't a problem with DLC, it's a problem with Microsoft being assholes about their replacement policy. All they need to do is switch your rights over to the new console instead of leaving them on the broken one. It's good to hear that apparently they're doing that now.

    Zek on
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    KiTAKiTA Registered User regular
    edited December 2007
    Um, forgive me if I'm wrong, but there's no possible fucking way the Microsoft Supervisor could have EVER known that you didn't buy the replacement 360 from CCity.

    He made up an excuse and basically told ya to fuck off.

    KiTA on
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    Death of RatsDeath of Rats Registered User regular
    edited December 2007
    Microsoft should have tied DLC to the HD and the gametag, not the console and the gametag. And then, if you do something like buy the 120 gig hd and transfer stuff over, it should have given the new hd the old one's identifying whatever, and given the old one the new one's identifying whatever.

    Because I haven't heard about HDs breaking, mainly just consoles. This way when you send in your console and keep your HD there's no hassle when you get a replacement.

    Death of Rats on
    No I don't.
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    Lord ShplaneLord Shplane Registered User regular
    edited December 2007
    I was actually wondering how downloadable content was handled when your console died.

    Then again, you're discussing the 360. I have a PS3, so I assume they work differently.

    Lord Shplane on
    Awww... My evil anime mask guy picture doesn't work. ;_;
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    ZetxZetx 🐧 Registered User regular
    edited December 2007
    Zetx wrote: »
    Funny you mention DRM since Galciv 2 has no copy protection, too bad that doesn't do you any good since a cd-key's required for patches.

    Last time I checked, the license is still heavily restricted and it is a primarily digitally distributed software title.

    The license is non-transferable and is tied to a Stardock account that you create and an email address. I think I recall needing to be connected to the Internet to play too, for verification, but my memory is a bit fuzzy on that, so maybe I'm not remembering properly.

    Sure it doesn't have Starforce or anything like that, but it still has some of the weaknesses that digital distro currently has, as a whole.
    yeah you need to activate it online, but you can activate it on as many machines as you want. And Zetx is mad because he can't patch his pirated copy of GalCiv2? i'm really going to shed some tears for him over how the evil corporations are screwing him over now :|

    You hurted my feewings :(
    For some reason, my original CD key that is printed on the sticker that came on the jewel case no longer works

    Anyway, it sounds like Nintendo's doing the right thing on the console side. Kinda curious how Sony does it though, since no one's mentioned that.

    Zetx on
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    MaratanosMaratanos Registered User regular
    edited December 2007
    Great. This is a nice story as to why you shouldn't trust Circuit City.

    I'll bear that in mind.

    Maratanos on
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    delrolanddelroland Registered User regular
    edited December 2007
    Digital Rights Management (edit: in its current incarnation) is stupid, and I will tell you why:

    The premise of DRM is to prevent piracy by ensuring that only the purchasing entity can use the game. According to most EULA's, games are licensed to each HOUSEHOLD. This means that, unless otherwise specified, the purchaser is allowed to install the software on every computer (or console, as the case may be) they own residing in that household.

    Unfortunately, in order to "prevent piracy", most companies will prevent DLC from being installed on more than one machine, which is contrary to what they allow in their EULA, but they don't care, because in the companies' paranoia, they believe this will stop pirates from stealing their monies. (Edit: and they bank on the consumer not wanting to go through the hassle of challenging the issue.)

    What this really ends up doing is just pissing off the consumer, like the OP here, who then goes online and downloads the latest, greatest key crack or emulator, thus in the end promoting piracy. Companies like Valve and the one that made GalCiv2 realize this and don't put DRM on their games, which makes the consumer MORE likely to purchase as opposed to pirate. (Heh, PvP means something else to game companies.)

    Here's a great site that tells you how to download and install CD cracks and emulators:
    Just kidding. :P

    delroland on
    EVE: Online - the most fun you will ever have not playing a game.
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    The_SpaniardThe_Spaniard It's never lupines Irvine, CaliforniaRegistered User regular
    edited December 2007
    JCRooks wrote: »
    This is has been a recurring problem. Fortunately, it's been addressed. Contact support and they should be able to take care of you. What they can do is swap console IDs, which fixes the problem.

    That said, it might take getting the right phone jockey. Hopefully as time goes on, the resolution of this problem should be a lot smoother.

    If you're still having problems, PM me and I'll try to expedite things. (As you may guess, I work in the games group at MS. While this is not my area of expertise, I do have some contacts I can try)

    BTW - I hate DRM.
    Wait so they can fix things on my elite? FUCK I've been playing phonetag with MS for 6 months now and they have been yanking and fucking me around the entire time telling me that I have to rebuy every last god damned thing, while off-duty techs told me that I could get my points re-issued so I could re-download my content.

    Actually here is the full story. If there is something that can be done please tell me!
    http://forums.penny-arcade.com/showthread.php?t=31610
    PS: I was working on an article, but I just got a new job at the time that I was writing it and the guy I had fact checking everything for me up and vanished so I had to sadly leave it unfinished...

    The_Spaniard on
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    DjiemDjiem Registered User regular
    edited December 2007
    When they sold it to me, I was supposed to be able to walk into any Circuit City and get a replacement.

    That was a nice lie.

    EBgames flashbacks!

    Djiem on
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    DaedalusDaedalus Registered User regular
    edited December 2007
    Really, why anyone would return a console with downloadable crap on it to the retailer is beyond me. You know they can't transfer the stuff to the new console, and you know the manufacturer can.

    Daedalus on
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    DVGDVG No. 1 Honor Student Nether Institute, Evil AcademyRegistered User regular
    edited December 2007
    Daedalus wrote: »
    Really, why anyone would return a console with downloadable crap on it to the retailer is beyond me. You know they can't transfer the stuff to the new console, and you know the manufacturer can.

    Well, in this specific instance, he already said it was before the 3-year warranty was put out and the only real option was to return it to the retailer.

    More to the point, the meer fact that there isn't any real way to keep your content after buying it is sort of bullshit in and of itself.

    DVG on
    Diablo 3 - DVG#1857
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    ChewyWafflesChewyWaffles Registered User regular
    edited December 2007
    JCRooks wrote: »
    This is has been a recurring problem. Fortunately, it's been addressed. Contact support and they should be able to take care of you. What they can do is swap console IDs, which fixes the problem.

    That said, it might take getting the right phone jockey. Hopefully as time goes on, the resolution of this problem should be a lot smoother.

    If you're still having problems, PM me and I'll try to expedite things. (As you may guess, I work in the games group at MS. While this is not my area of expertise, I do have some contacts I can try)

    BTW - I hate DRM.

    Wow, you are one cool dude and a very good guy to know. I'm tatooing your name into my arm so I know who to contact when my launch 360 breaks :)

    A question I have for you: I thought that Microsoft can fix the problem he has, but only if they can verify you actually ditched the broken console. i.e. you had to send it to Microsoft, themselves, before they can take care of that DRM issue with a swapped console. Not true anymore?

    ChewyWaffles on
    mwf2sig.jpg
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    NovaRevNovaRev Registered User regular
    edited December 2007
    JCRooks wrote: »
    This is has been a recurring problem. Fortunately, it's been addressed. Contact support and they should be able to take care of you. What they can do is swap console IDs, which fixes the problem.

    That said, it might take getting the right phone jockey. Hopefully as time goes on, the resolution of this problem should be a lot smoother.

    If you're still having problems, PM me and I'll try to expedite things. (As you may guess, I work in the games group at MS. While this is not my area of expertise, I do have some contacts I can try)

    BTW - I hate DRM.

    I agree with what's already been said: this is a very classy offer and I would greatly appreciate your help. If I can't get a fix from tech support when I call, I'll try to remember to PM you. It's great to hear that some progress is being made and hopefully I'll be able to get the problem solved quickly...maybe dropping the key words "switch console IDs" when I describe the problem will help?

    Anyway, thanks a lot for the offer.

    NovaRev on
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    SteKbierrSteKbierr __BANNED USERS new member
    edited December 2007
    You're not understanding.

    You send Circuit City the 360, they verify that it is broken and keep it. Then they send you a gift card for the amount that you paid.

    SteKbierr on
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    KrikeeKrikee Registered User regular
    edited December 2007
    I don't see why they can't transfer the content while they're doing the replacement at the Microsoft repair center. They should be able to verify the broken consoles ID, see what was purchased with that ID and transfer it. I'm currently facing losing 20 or so arcade games to this stupid process because my DVD drive died.

    Was there wide spread problems with 1st gen 360 DVD drives? They're saying I need to pay $100 to get mine fixed. :(

    Krikee on
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    Gaming-ModuleGaming-Module Registered User regular
    edited December 2007
    A question I have for you: I thought that Microsoft can fix the problem he has, but only if they can verify you actually ditched the broken console. i.e. you had to send it to Microsoft, themselves, before they can take care of that DRM issue with a swapped console. Not true anymore?

    Even if you can verify that you had the console replaced, it seems that their criteria is very specific, thus giving the 18004MYXBOX call center people in India plenty of ways to wiggle out of helping you.

    Another aspect to my story that I just realized, had I just went ahead and purchased an elite from my Circuit City, instead of using the gift card they gave me on something else and buying the replacement at a retailer that had the correct model, I would be in the exact same boat that I am now and would actually be more fucked than I am now.

    They do not transfer licenses from Premium/Pro bought content to the elites. There have been some stories in the X-Box forums of people who took the opportunity to replace their broken console to upgrade to an elite being "scolded" by the Live CSR's and denied the licensure transfer for good, or seemingly until the policy is injected with a little more common sense and elbow room for the call center folks in terms of criteria justifying the license transfer.

    Truly this is a horrible situation for everyone involved, Microsoft included, especially when their number one competitor is an unstoppable sales juggernaut and hasn't had any negative press since people were assassinating their televisions with their controllers because of a weak wrist strap.

    I hope MS fixes this, not only because I am self-interested, but because it's a great console with great games. Such a stupid issue to potentially lose marketshare over.

    Gaming-Module on
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    JCRooksJCRooks Registered User regular
    edited December 2007
    A question I have for you: I thought that Microsoft can fix the problem he has, but only if they can verify you actually ditched the broken console. i.e. you had to send it to Microsoft, themselves, before they can take care of that DRM issue with a swapped console. Not true anymore?

    No idea. I don't work in support, so I don't know what the process is. I have to imagine that MS wants to focus this primarily on broken consoles first. The vast majority of cases go through the normal process, so whenever something differs from the norm, it gets much more complicated. That much is common sense. After that ... not sure.

    I know how I would want things done, but I don't work on that team. :)
    NovaRev wrote: »
    I agree with what's already been said: this is a very classy offer and I would greatly appreciate your help. If I can't get a fix from tech support when I call, I'll try to remember to PM you. It's great to hear that some progress is being made and hopefully I'll be able to get the problem solved quickly...maybe dropping the key words "switch console IDs" when I describe the problem will help?

    Anyway, thanks a lot for the offer.

    Those might be the magic words to use. It doesn't hurt to give it a try. However, keep in mind this should only work with broken/repaired consoles (more on that in a bit).

    Also, while I'm happy to help people out, this is not my day job. So I'm happy to help out a few forumers, but try not to overload me or my contacts. (Basically, I'll help you all, but please don't tell all your friends and have them inundate me!) ;-) (Ideally, we should get to the point where tech support learns how to handle this without problem)
    They do not transfer licenses from Premium/Pro bought content to the elites. There have been some stories in the X-Box forums of people who took the opportunity to replace their broken console to upgrade to an elite being "scolded" by the Live CSR's and denied the licensure transfer for good, or seemingly until the policy is injected with a little more common sense and elbow room for the call center folks in terms of criteria justifying the license transfer.

    Truly this is a horrible situation for everyone involved, Microsoft included, especially when their number one competitor is an unstoppable sales juggernaut and hasn't had any negative press since people were assassinating their televisions with their controllers because of a weak wrist strap.

    I hope MS fixes this, not only because I am self-interested, but because it's a great console with great games. Such a stupid issue to potentially lose marketshare over.

    And unfortunately, I've learned that Gaming-Module is correct. Licenses aren't transferred unless it's a broken console / repair scenario. Personally, I don't like it either. I don't know why it's done like this. That said, even if I knew why, I wouldn't be able to share the knowledge with anyone else. :(

    This is, yet another example, as to why I'm not a fan of DRM at all. It often causes more headaches than it helps, with customers and also for the engineering team. Developing, securing, and testing DRM takes up a lot of time and energy, which I'd rather focus on other features that bring true value to our customers.

    Unfortunately I don't work on the Xbox Live DRM side of things, but I do work on ... other things. You know my stance on DRM, and I'll be trying my best to make sure things improve on the areas that I do have influence on.

    Sorry, that's the best I can do for you guys.

    JCRooks on
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    JihadJesusJihadJesus Registered User regular
    edited December 2007
    DVG wrote: »
    More to the point, the meer fact that there isn't any real way to keep your content after buying it is sort of bullshit in and of itself.
    Silly man - you don't buy downloadable content. You just rent it until some high-up policy maker involved in the process decides to fuck you over.

    JihadJesus on
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    apotheosapotheos Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited December 2007
    JC, you are criticizing DRM as a concept for the sins of one company implementing DRM poorly. Microsoft could fix this, they are choosing not to. Why is a question I leave for the philosophers.

    If you ask me the only real flaw of DRM is that you lose your content if the company who manages the right falls off the planet. All the other things we are complaining about are implementation/company specific things.

    apotheos on


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    apotheosapotheos Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited December 2007
    The only other thing I can possibly add is that I don't buy much marketplace content and I buy zero Virtual Console content for one reason: its retardedly expensive for what you get.

    apotheos on


    猿も木から落ちる
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    HarshLanguageHarshLanguage Registered User regular
    edited December 2007
    apotheos wrote: »
    JC, you are criticizing DRM as a concept for the sins of one company implementing DRM poorly. Microsoft could fix this, they are choosing not to. Why is a question I leave for the philosophers.

    If you ask me the only real flaw of DRM is that you lose your content if the company who manages the right falls off the planet. All the other things we are complaining about are implementation/company specific things.

    DRM, as a concept and as widely implemented across the various industries that sell digital content, has so many flaws and sins of its own that it deserves to be criticized. MS's Marketplace/Arcade DRM limitations are just a particularly noticeable example for us. It doesn't take MS's mistakes/greediness to make DRM look bad.

    While you mention one notable flaw of DRM, there's a whole host more. All DRM methods are essentially designed to limit your rights to use the content, even though you have paid money for it -- and paid just as much as you would without DRM. As a side effect, it sometimes also stops casual piracy, but that's not really what DRM is about now. And that's regardless of specific companies and implementations.

    HarshLanguage on
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    JCRooksJCRooks Registered User regular
    edited December 2007
    apotheos wrote: »
    JC, you are criticizing DRM as a concept for the sins of one company implementing DRM poorly. Microsoft could fix this, they are choosing not to. Why is a question I leave for the philosophers.

    If you ask me the only real flaw of DRM is that you lose your content if the company who manages the right falls off the planet. All the other things we are complaining about are implementation/company specific things.

    Yeah, that's a big flaw of DRM, as well as other services (for example, subscriptions). Millions of people would be screwed if Apple suddenly went away.

    I do want to bring up one important point though, and sorry if I sound like a shill here. Whatever DLC you get is still accessible via your gamertag. It's not like it's gone forever at all. For those who live in one gamertag households with consoles that are always online anyway, this is essentially a non-issue.

    That said, I'm not sure what percentage of 360 owners fall in that category. And regardless, as long as you fall into that category, you could care less about percentages and what "everyone else" is like. And I agree, it's a crappy scenario if you fall into that camp.

    I'd be curious to how DLC is handled with competing platforms (PS Store, and Virtual Console). I'm aware how it works on the PC side of things, since that's my area of expertise. Since that platform is open, by its very nature, you don't have problems with DLC being locked to "a machine". (At the very least, most PC DRM lets you install to a limited, and "reasonable" number of PCs, in the event the original one goes south or gets replaced)

    ... although I suppose maybe this should be made into a separate thread?

    JCRooks on
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    OhtsamOhtsam Registered User regular
    edited December 2007
    I actually think they should also use HD id #s to tie stuff to your account and if you have at least 2 of the 3 match you could play it on the whole console.

    For instance
    Gamertag + Console: Chances are your hd died but your definately the same person.
    Gamertag + HD Might've gotten a new console (RROD) but definately the same person and old console if sold to others cannot play content the user paid for.
    etc.

    Ohtsam on
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    NovaRevNovaRev Registered User regular
    edited December 2007
    Here's an update on my situation if anyone cares: I just got off the phone with Xbox support, and the tech that I initially got wanted me to delete and re-download my content through the "download history" section of account management on the system itself (there is no delete button in there O_o). After mentioning the console ID switch a couple of times and briefly explaining how the licenses work when you download something, he got his supervisor on the line who said that they have to escalate the issue and scheduled a call back for Wednesday-Thursday. The supervisor seemed to understand that I can no longer access my premium content offline after having my console replaced and mentioned that they might refund my points, so while the solution might not necessarily come as a console ID switch, I am hoping that this means that I am on the right track to getting this fixed.

    NovaRev on
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    Lord YodLord Yod Registered User regular
    edited December 2007
    I was actually wondering how downloadable content was handled when your console died.

    Then again, you're discussing the 360. I have a PS3, so I assume they work differently.

    A little late, but I thought I'd throw in how it works on PS3: When you purchase any sort of DLC (except for Warhawk) you get 5 uses of it, meaning you can download it 5 times. It can be played on any console which has the purchasing account activated - this account does not have to be logged in. A limited sharing system is built into it, in fact, allowing for things like sharing RB song packs among a whole band while only paying for one. (I swear to you that this is allowed)

    So, if you don't share your DLC, you use it once. If your HD dies, then you still have 4 downloads left, meaning you get your new HD, put your account info in, go to the PSN store download list, and re-download all your crap again.

    Warhawk is a special case: I believe it still allows 5 downloads, but it can only be used by the account that downloaded it originally, and only one PS3 can use it per 24 hour period.

    Lord Yod on
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    The_SpaniardThe_Spaniard It's never lupines Irvine, CaliforniaRegistered User regular
    edited December 2007
    apotheos wrote: »
    JC, you are criticizing DRM as a concept for the sins of one company implementing DRM poorly. Microsoft could fix this, they are choosing not to. Why is a question I leave for the philosophers.

    If you ask me the only real flaw of DRM is that you lose your content if the company who manages the right falls off the planet. All the other things we are complaining about are implementation/company specific things.
    They are absolutely choosing not to and what makes it even worse is that they are lying to customers about their intentions. I mean I've had a solid 6 months worth of tech support SWEARING up and down to me that a fix was in the works and to just wait and be patient. Well?

    The_Spaniard on
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    JCRooksJCRooks Registered User regular
    edited December 2007
    apotheos wrote: »
    JC, you are criticizing DRM as a concept for the sins of one company implementing DRM poorly. Microsoft could fix this, they are choosing not to. Why is a question I leave for the philosophers.

    If you ask me the only real flaw of DRM is that you lose your content if the company who manages the right falls off the planet. All the other things we are complaining about are implementation/company specific things.
    They are absolutely choosing not to and what makes it even worse is that they are lying to customers about their intentions. I mean I've had a solid 6 months worth of tech support SWEARING up and down to me that a fix was in the works and to just wait and be patient. Well?

    I think the problem is that phone tech support is usually farthest from the loop from things. Not trying to say that they're completely clueless but, just not well informed. It doesn't help that the issue is fairly complex. The DRM fix is available for transfers between repaired consoles across the same SKU, but not for Premium->Elite, for some reason.

    If I'm having problems figuring out the policy, and I'm a QA lead for the dang company, I can understand that it's nigh incomprehensible for customers and the (underpaid?) tech support.

    Not that it makes it any less inexcusable of course. I think we just need to change the damn system. I've had some wonderful conversations regarding DRM with folks though, which is promising, so I'm hopeful that we'll get out of this morass at some point.

    And btw, I think the way the PS3 handles the DRM so far is pretty simple and elegant. Of course, I'm curious what happens if you ever hit that 5 download limit (are you out of luck, or just a support call away?). It's pretty similar to DRM schemes on the PC. That said, I'd still like to see DRM go away entirely.

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    Lord YodLord Yod Registered User regular
    edited December 2007
    JCRooks wrote: »
    And btw, I think the way the PS3 handles the DRM so far is pretty simple and elegant. Of course, I'm curious what happens if you ever hit that 5 download limit (are you out of luck, or just a support call away?).

    A few guys in my clan are trying to find out right now. There's a side affect that your account can only activate 5 systems, and we're trying to rearrange who is sharing with whom for Rock Band DLC, and we've hit a snag. Our guinea pig has been spending time on the phone.

    I'll be sure to post if we find out anything.

    Lord Yod on
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    DaedalusDaedalus Registered User regular
    edited December 2007
    Lord Yod wrote: »
    I was actually wondering how downloadable content was handled when your console died.

    Then again, you're discussing the 360. I have a PS3, so I assume they work differently.

    A little late, but I thought I'd throw in how it works on PS3: When you purchase any sort of DLC (except for Warhawk) you get 5 uses of it, meaning you can download it 5 times. It can be played on any console which has the purchasing account activated - this account does not have to be logged in. A limited sharing system is built into it, in fact, allowing for things like sharing RB song packs among a whole band while only paying for one. (I swear to you that this is allowed)

    So, if you don't share your DLC, you use it once. If your HD dies, then you still have 4 downloads left, meaning you get your new HD, put your account info in, go to the PSN store download list, and re-download all your crap again.

    Warhawk is a special case: I believe it still allows 5 downloads, but it can only be used by the account that downloaded it originally, and only one PS3 can use it per 24 hour period.

    Wow, that sucks. You only get to redownload five times? Yeah, that's pretty damn retarded.

    Why the hell can't these companies just do exactly what Steam did? Nintendo is the closest but even they're a bit off the mark. Gah.

    Daedalus on
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    The_SpaniardThe_Spaniard It's never lupines Irvine, CaliforniaRegistered User regular
    edited December 2007
    JCRooks wrote: »
    apotheos wrote: »
    JC, you are criticizing DRM as a concept for the sins of one company implementing DRM poorly. Microsoft could fix this, they are choosing not to. Why is a question I leave for the philosophers.

    If you ask me the only real flaw of DRM is that you lose your content if the company who manages the right falls off the planet. All the other things we are complaining about are implementation/company specific things.
    They are absolutely choosing not to and what makes it even worse is that they are lying to customers about their intentions. I mean I've had a solid 6 months worth of tech support SWEARING up and down to me that a fix was in the works and to just wait and be patient. Well?

    I think the problem is that phone tech support is usually farthest from the loop from things. Not trying to say that they're completely clueless but, just not well informed. It doesn't help that the issue is fairly complex. The DRM fix is available for transfers between repaired consoles across the same SKU, but not for Premium->Elite, for some reason.

    If I'm having problems figuring out the policy, and I'm a QA lead for the dang company, I can understand that it's nigh incomprehensible for customers and the (underpaid?) tech support.

    Not that it makes it any less inexcusable of course. I think we just need to change the damn system. I've had some wonderful conversations regarding DRM with folks though, which is promising, so I'm hopeful that we'll get out of this morass at some point.

    And btw, I think the way the PS3 handles the DRM so far is pretty simple and elegant. Of course, I'm curious what happens if you ever hit that 5 download limit (are you out of luck, or just a support call away?). It's pretty similar to DRM schemes on the PC. That said, I'd still like to see DRM go away entirely.
    Now I could completely understand if it was just some dumb tech support person trying to give a quick answer to just shut me up and get off the phone, but the fact that every last one has been saying the same thing is very disconcerting. As if they have all been told to say it to placate the masses.

    The_Spaniard on
    Playstation/Origin/GoG: Span_Wolf Xbox/uPlay/Bnet: SpanWolf Nintendo: Span_Wolf SW-7097-4917-9392 Steam: http://steamcommunity.com/id/Span_Wolf/
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    Dark ShroudDark Shroud Registered User regular
    edited December 2007
    Lord Yod wrote: »
    So, if you don't share your DLC, you use it once. If your HD dies, then you still have 4 downloads left, meaning you get your new HD, put your account info in, go to the PSN store download list, and re-download all your crap again.

    Don't forget that we can also transfer or save content to external drives as well. Or back up our HD whenever we want for whatever reason, like upgradeing it to a larger one. Sony has a much nicer and more forgiving open system. I'm just gald I never bought any content from XBL Market place before my 360 died, because mine took out my hard drive when it bricked. So I was in very bad shape, but Gamestop warranties got me a new one instead of a refurb.

    I agree with the idea of using the Xbox HD instead of the console's id or having a method of letting tech support transfer the from the old console to the new console.

    As for PC DRM, there are tools can easily bypass securerom. Like the whole Bioshock issue, I had friends laughing as they used work arounds for the DRM even though they actually bought the game legally. Itunes, there's a program that removes Apple's DRM from the content so you can play it on any MP3 player. DRM is a broken system and it's only hurting the legit consumers.

    Dark Shroud on
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    HarshLanguageHarshLanguage Registered User regular
    edited December 2007
    As for PC DRM, there are tools can easily bypass securerom. Like the whole Bioshock issue, I had friends laughing as they used work arounds for the DRM even though they actually bought the game legally. Itunes, there's a program that removes Apple's DRM from the content so you can play it on any MP3 player. DRM is a broken system and it's only hurting the legit consumers.

    While I totally agree with that sentiment, we don't discuss that stuff here.

    Though I must say, it is massively ironic that, in a few years, probably the only way to play legally purchased copies of, say, Bioshock will be to use "illegal" DRM-cracking tools.

    HarshLanguage on
    QSwearing_trans_smooth_small.gif
    > turn on light

    Good start to the day. Pity it's going to be the worst one of your life. The light is now on.
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    Lord YodLord Yod Registered User regular
    edited December 2007
    Daedalus wrote: »
    Wow, that sucks. You only get to redownload five times? Yeah, that's pretty damn retarded.

    Why the hell can't these companies just do exactly what Steam did? Nintendo is the closest but even they're a bit off the mark. Gah.

    As Dark Shroud said, you can easily copy everything off your HDD to a backup. So you don't even really have to worry about it.

    Lord Yod on
    steam_sig.png
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    eelektrikeelektrik Southern CaliforniaRegistered User regular
    edited December 2007
    Maratanos wrote: »
    Great. This is a nice story as to why you shouldn't trust Circuit City.

    I'll bear that in mind.

    Toys 'R Us's Buyer Protection Plans work the same way. Its a piece of shit that they make us push anyways, and I feel sorry for the original poster to have been thrown $80 away on that, at least at TRU its cheaper than that. At TRU its coded into the registers to ask to Accept or Decline the offer, and they time how long it takes us to push a button so we can't just skip it and have to offer it. Just today I heard our manager bitching over the radio about R*Zone not selling enough BPPs on the 39 Wii's we got in this morning, Its not our fault not all consumers want one, most cut me off midsentence to tell me no and I don't blame them. Makes me glad I wasn't working register today, so they can't bitch at me for it this time.




    Still, as for the actual topic at hand, I really hope I don't end up having this problem as I just sent my console in for repairs three weeks ago(Hopefully it gets back soon) for the RRoD, but really in my case it wouldn't be much of a hassle unless I take the console to my friend's house, where I'd have to drag an ethernet cord across their living room just to play some local multiplayer if I wanted to use any DLC maps or such. Here I have it always hooked up online and my gamertag is the only one thats ever used anyways.

    eelektrik on
    (She/Her)
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    SmudgeSmudge Registered User regular
    edited December 2007
    I am abit confused about how Steam is getting high praise in this thread and the MS DLC is being villianized. It is entirely possible I misunderstand how it works. Is the following correct?:

    Steam:
    User must have steam installed (simple), must have an internet connection, must log in to the account that they purchased the product with, and then they can play it, or redownload it if it is not on the current computer.

    Isn't this pretty much the same as the MS 360 content, except the initial machine has an additional license that steam does not grant? If I bought Symphony of the night and then threw my 360 out of a plane and bought a new one, wouldn't I basically have the same ability to play that game as I would have with Steam? (internet connection and login required, can re-download it if I need it)

    Or is there a way to play steam games offline? I don't know if you can or not since I always have a connection to my PC.

    Smudge on
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    Fartacus_the_MightyFartacus_the_Mighty Brought to you by the letter A.Registered User regular
    edited December 2007
    Smudge wrote: »
    Or is there a way to play steam games offline? I don't know if you can or not since I always have a connection to my PC.

    Steam needs to be running, but you do not need to be online to play.

    Fartacus_the_Mighty on
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    themightypuckthemightypuck MontanaRegistered User regular
    edited December 2007
    I hate Xbox Live because I blow so much money on DLC. I don't have cable or dtv so if a show isn't on Live I don't watch it and I end up paying 2 bucks a show. That doesn't bother me so much when it is a 40 minute show like Gossip Girl (guilty pleasure) but it sucks paying that for a 20 min South Park. I just spend 15 bucks on Psychonauts off Live as well. The only thing I dislike about Steam is the lie that is offline play. It never worked for me when my internet connection went down but I think that will be less of a problem in the future when solid internet connections are taken for granted.

    themightypuck on
    “Reject your sense of injury and the injury itself disappears.”
    ― Marcus Aurelius

    Path of Exile: themightypuck
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    SmudgeSmudge Registered User regular
    edited December 2007
    Smudge wrote: »
    Or is there a way to play steam games offline? I don't know if you can or not since I always have a connection to my PC.

    Steam needs to be running, but you do not need to be online to play.

    So, what stops one steam account from buying, lets say, portal and then downloading it on 1000 computers and them all playing it offline? 1000 is a silly number, but call it X if you prefer.

    Smudge on
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    themightypuckthemightypuck MontanaRegistered User regular
    edited December 2007
    Smudge wrote: »
    Smudge wrote: »
    Or is there a way to play steam games offline? I don't know if you can or not since I always have a connection to my PC.

    Steam needs to be running, but you do not need to be online to play.

    So, what stops one steam account from buying, lets say, portal and then downloading it on 1000 computers and them all playing it offline? 1000 is a silly number, but call it X if you prefer.

    I can't answer that question but I can say that Steam simply did not allow me to play offline when I was disconnected from the internet. It is possible that if you set it up to play offline while you are still online that it will allow it.

    themightypuck on
    “Reject your sense of injury and the injury itself disappears.”
    ― Marcus Aurelius

    Path of Exile: themightypuck
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