Another car thread (Ford Focus? Carfax? Ugly rims? This thread has it all)

Kyzen

The Radiator in my 89 Volvo died recently (I posted about that here), and between the cost of replacing it ($300-$400), the cost of new tires (I have a nearly bald one (just one, oddly enough), and it's starting to get icey here), the cost of a new taillight fixture ($90, some asshole took the plastic filters off 3 of the lights on my fixture, need to buy a whole new one now), the cost of new struts (was quoted $310 1.5 years ago) and all of the cosmetic damage, I decided to look at new cars.

I'm looking for something to last me 5-7 years, and is preferebly cheap. At the same time, I've been driving this crap bucket for the last 3.5 years, and am *very* ready to move on to something a bit (read: a lot) nicer looking.

My current car looks something like this:

http://www.riddleware.com/images/jpeg/89_Volvo_740_GLT_16Valve.jpg
http://www.bilforumet.no/kjopsalg/data/751/DSC00872.JPG
(yeah the 2nd pic isn't a wagon, but that's pretty much what the front of mine looks like)

Obviously the american version. And missing a tail light, most of the interior roofing fabic, the frame of the drivers sider mirror, and featuring a couple of dents. Really it looks like some sort of mobile meth lab, or rape-mobile.

This is the car I'm considering:

http://www.auction123.com/showroom/InventoryDetailContent.aspx?dealer_id=4878&inventory_id=258385

I e-mailed them about it and was offered $1000 less than the price listed there, so $9,000.

Though I'm looking for a nicer car, I'm not sure if I'm down with the black rims there.

I'm also considering a new 08 Hyundai Accent (4 door) for around $14500, and a new 08 Hyndai Elantra for around $17000. I'm not super excited about either of those cars, but they do (especially the Accent) fall in my price range.

So, here's my questions I guess:

1 - Is the Focus a decent buy? Is $9000 way too high?
2 - Is a Focus going to be reliable for awhile, or is this going cost as much in maintenence as my Volvo (which is up over a grand a year now thanks to the radiator)?
3 - Carfax - is it worth my $30? Searching for this car there provided 7 results, but I have to pay to see them.
4 - What other sub $15000 new cars are worth looking at?

urahonky

Honestly I'm not big on cars... But one thing I can tell you, Ford cars are terrible. It's like they were built to break, to give American Mechanics jobs. :P "Found On Road Dead" and "Fix Or Repair Daily" are some phrases we like to use for Ford around here.

I'm not quite sure how the Focus' are, but since everyone I know that owned a Ford has repeatedly talked about never buying one again, that's my only advice. Sorry! If other people tell you different you might want to hold their recommendation with more merit, however. This is just anecdotal.

ViolentChemistry

Let's not submit redneck-rabble-rousing as advice in this thread, thanks. If you don't have anything but "ololz Ford sux" to contribute, go to a Chevy forum.

Edit: Or a Holden forum, for the ozzie-rednecks.

amateurhour

ViolentChemistry wrote: »

Let's not submit redneck-rabble-rousing as advice in this thread, thanks. If you don't have anything but "ololz Ford sux" to contribute, go to a Chevy forum.
Edit: Or a Holden forum, for the ozzie-rednecks.

Fords are a perfectly reliable car. Go to consumer reports and see that in terms of domestic autos the focus is one of the best selling sub compacts. I've driven a focus on more than one occasion (work vehicle) and it was excellent. A smooth ride, low maintenance, good highway speed, and I belive all models now come standard with AC, so the dealer doesn't try to hose you on it.

Honestly though, if your budget is close to 15k, your best bet is on a certified pre-owned from a dealership. You get almost the full warrranty, no "off the lot" depreciation that someone else paid for, and a great car. I'd reccomend the toyota corolla, or maybe even a used camry if you can afford it. Honda is great, but they've gone up in price it seems like in recent years. Also, the korean imports are doing good things. Both Kia and Hyundai are amazing cars in terms of price and performance, with a ten year warranty to boot. Bundle that with a certified pre owned and you can get a four door with leather, possibly a sunroof, and all other creature comforts for around 12k, with under 30k miles, and a seven year remaining warranty.

Edit: I tried to pull the consumer report for you on a few used cars but apparently my account there isn't working. There's some other sites where you can get the info though. Carfax isn't a bad idea either. It's pricey, but those reports are pretty damn accurate.

Kyzen

Thanks for the advice so far.

One of my problems is that if I want to even try trading in my current car, I'm limited to somewhere in-town, as the radiator is leaking. There are much better deals to be had down in Denver, but my car won't make it the 50-60 miles on the highway to get there. It's much easier to top off the radiator, drive it to a dealer, and go from there. I'm not expecting much from the trade, but every little bit counts for me right now (which is part of the reason I'm not just buying a nice new Civic).

amateurhour

KIA or HYUNDAI. Listen to the radio. Car dealers are desperate to make a sale, even good efficient gas vehicles, because interest rates suck right now, and gas is expensive. Both korean dealers (the car manufacturer, not the actual dealer himself) in my city are offering a five grand minimum on any trade.

One thing to remember. Go in with a friend, without your car, or park it across the street, and get them to offer you the best deal possible on a car, then pitch the trade, and any trade in deals they are offering. The comission on a car is roughly $500, and they're going to make that, no matter how hard you argue, but knowing that is the difference between you paying 7K for a car and 11K

Kyzen

Looked around, and it seems there are no good specials going on in town right now

amateurhour

Just keep looking, try a neighboring town. A lot of those deals are standard, just not advertised. Someone in your town is offering "crazy X amount for your trade". They do that to get you there, and basically use that high trade in value in lieu of an actuall discount on the car, so they make more money. Like I said, call the dealerships, ask about trade in bonuses. Also, get two neighboring dealerships of the same brand to compete over you. Fax one an extimate, get them to lower it, and then turn around and fax it to the other one. Hell, call dealerships three states away and get estimates. Those dealers that brag about being the biggest "x" dealer in the country do that by moving a lot of merchandise for the bare minimum. Get one of their estimates and make your local dealer price match it. You'd be suprised just how cheap you can get a new or certified pre owned ride if you just get a little agressive with your tactics.

Kyzen

One of my limitations though is that I'm suck in town, if I want to try a trade at least.

Xaquin

My 2000 ford focus sedan was recalled 7 times. Just before 100,000 miles the timing chain snapped and bent every valve in the engine according to the mechanic. Rather then pay his 4,000 to fix it, I sold it for 500$ to a scrap yard and bought a Saturn.

I will never buy another ford. I hated my focus and hate it to this day.

also, my friend also had a focus sedan (2001) which was recalled a few times and died just after hitting 100,000 miles.

I don't know anyone else who has had one, but those are my experiences.

amateurhour

Don't worry about your geographical limitations, you can get all kinds of quotes and estimates online. Find the larger dealers and inquire for estimates, then get them faxed to you. Also, if someone offers you a five grand trade in special on your busted car, pay the $70 to have it towed there. It's worth it.

JihadJesus

As the not-so-proud owner of a lemon that has had just about every issue you can think of on the front end (alternator, headlight assembly, transmission, on and on) I will NEVER buy a used car again without some kind of vehicle history - and even then I'll insist on taking it to an independant mechanic check it out.

I bought a good model car and took decent care of it, but if it's been shit on before you got to it you damn well want to know about it. It'll save you a LOT of money over the long run.

Pheezer

As an owner of an 04 Elantra GT that's never given me any trouble whatsoever, I can vouch for the cars. The build quality is high, the interior is pretty sharp and it's been reliable and cheap to run.

The 2008 Elantra uses the same engine as the the Accent though, so it's a little underpowered, and the mileage isn't actually that great given that the Accent is a subcompact.

I would actually strongly recommend looking into a Yaris, though. See if you can fit it into your budget, if you're in Canada you'll get a rebate off the purchase price based on its fuel efficiency and save a lot of money down the road in terms of fuel costs and maintenance. Although I'd say that a Hyundai will probably prove to be equally reliable.

I had a 2001 Focus that gave me no trouble for the first couple of years, but after taking it in for collision repair at a ford dealership it was never the same. Constant trouble and nothing but.

brandotheninjamaster

I would stay away from the Focus if I were you. I say this because I own one. I have a 2001 Ford Focus Wagon (or as I like to call it "Big Bertha"). I have had my car for 4 years, in that time I have had the following problems: Melted Thermal Housing (caused anitfreeze to spew out of my car at an alarming rate), Bad EGR valve (something to do with emissions), a broken door latch, rotted rotator cord (the thing that makes the window roll up), major oil leak, a bad thermostat and a broken strut (I wasn't doing a dukes of hazard jump or anything, I was going over a speed bump at 5mph). I am not trying to say that as violent chemistry said "ololz Ford sux". Its just my personal opinion that your money could put to better use.

Ant000

That's weird. My mom has a 2000 Focus and hasn't been subject to any recalls or anything that I know of. The only problem she had that wasn't general maintenance was something to do with the key getting stuck, but it was covered under the warranty she got. In fact I was actually kind of surprised at how problem free it has seemed to be considering domestic car manufacturer reputations. I figured it was because it was designed for the European market initially.... but maybe it's just a lemon, but in reverse? . One out of a hundred Focus's that actually works.

It's nice and roomy and the build quality definitely seemed to be head and shoulders above cars like the Chevy Cavalier (barf x 1000, I'd rather take the bus).



I have a question though myself, actually. I was wondering about the reliability and longevity of Audi's. I have about 13 grand to put towards a car if I so choose, and if I were to save up a little more there are some turn of the century Audi sedans in that range. The interiors are really nice, and I've always been a casual fan of German engineered cars. Any opinions? Would I just be assuming responsibility for massive end-of-life maintenance costs, or would they last to 300k? Should I aim lower, like Volkswagen maybe?

Blake T

amateurhour wrote: »

KIA or HYUNDAI. Listen to the radio. Car dealers are desperate to make a sale, even good efficient gas vehicles, because interest rates suck right now, and gas is expensive. Both korean dealers (the car manufacturer, not the actual dealer himself) in my city are offering a five grand minimum on any trade.

No, these have stupid trade in values because they can afford to knock 5k off the price because they are such horrible cars. Seriously everyone that I know that have owned either of these brands have been dissapointed.

For small cars I would recomend the Toyota Corrolla or the Suzuki Swift. Both hold their value very well. Unfortunatly I do not have much experience with focuses.

Also I know that the local (Aussie) Focus's are German designed but I am unsure of their build location.

ViolentChemistry

If you're looking for reliability you're probably not looking for used German cars. Don't get me wrong, they're incredible machines, when they're new. German engineers like to design to impressively tight tolerances, their engines are freaking works of art, but, I mean, you don't want a Mona Lisa that someone has already driven the best years out of. There may be particular models that are exceptions and Volkswagons seem to go either way with some year/models being nigh-indestructible and others breaking down at the drop of a hat. But I'm not sure I'd be willing to depend on a BMW or Audi that has enough miles on it to buy for under $13k. At least the way prices are around here. That and if I had a BMW or Audi I'd be driving it like it's a BMW or Audi, which is probably a poor choice with a high-mileage car. I mean, you might not be prone to that, but I think anyone who wouldn't be tempted should check their pulse.

Supposing your used Auto only breaks at a rate to be expected from any used car, parts will be vastly more expensive than parts for a domestic car.

Also, results may vary between continents.

Edit: That last part applies to all makes, honestly. Results may vary between continents.

Pheezer

Blaket wrote: »

amateurhour wrote: »

KIA or HYUNDAI. Listen to the radio. Car dealers are desperate to make a sale, even good efficient gas vehicles, because interest rates suck right now, and gas is expensive. Both korean dealers (the car manufacturer, not the actual dealer himself) in my city are offering a five grand minimum on any trade.

No, these have stupid trade in values because they can afford to knock 5k off the price because they are such horrible cars. Seriously everyone that I know that have owned either of these brands have been dissapointed.

For small cars I would recomend the Toyota Corrolla or the Suzuki Swift. Both hold their value very well. Unfortunatly I do not have much experience with focuses.

Also I know that the local (Aussie) Focus's are German designed but I am unsure of their build location.

You just suggested a Suzuki Swift over the recent Hyundais.

I don't think you need to keep posting in this thread. Google up some reviews of the 2003-on Elantras or the more recent Accents. They're reliable, affordable cars with great standard features and one of the best warranties around.

And unlike a new Corolla, they're in your price range. A new Toyota Corolla is not. A recent used one also likely is not. A Yaris probably is, though, so that's an option. And like I said earlier, rebate for buying an efficient vehicle.

Fats

DrDizaster wrote: »

You just suggested a Suzuki Swift over the recent Hyundais.

The current model Swift gets killer reviews over in Europe, but I don't think they're even sold here. (Why don't we get a single cool small car?)

The Hyundais will certainly get you from point A to B. That's not really a compliment, though.

Kyzen

Thanks for the continued advice.

At this point I've gotten some online quotes for a few other comprable Focus's in the state, and a Carfax report indicating that this Focus has been sitting on the dealers lot since the end of August. Hopefully I can use some of this to drive the price down closer to 8.

I'm still not entirely convinced that a Focus is a really bad or really good idea, but at the moment, it's my best option. I'm not in a super convenient financial spot right now, so I think I'm going to try to stick to a sub $10k car.

Erandus

I have an 05 focus that I bought new (so its now 3 years old as of a month and a half ago.) I have 84 thousand miles on it in those three years, and haven't had a single thing go wrong with it.

I can't speak for the older models, but mine has held up well given the amount that I drive.

Regardless of what you buy, get it serviced regularly. Even more important with a used car. 3-5k miles for oil changes, 15k for a tuneup, depending on your driving conditions and habits.

Cycophant

Read back over the thread and look at everyone who hates the Ford Focus - it's all because they had models from the year 2000 or 2001. Ford was known to have a lot of problems with these years, because it was brand new to their lineup. The one you're looking at is a 2003, and AFAIK, all the major problems were completely ironed out by that point. Look around a bit, and you'll see a lot of mechanics echo this fact - most will suggest if you buy a Focus, go for 2003 or later. And they're actually decent cars, though you certainly wouldn't go wrong with a lot of the other cars you're looking at either.

whuppins

That's true, there's a lot to be said for getting a model that's a few years into its lifespan, or even its current generation. My wife has a 2005 Focus with ~45,000 miles on it. No problems with it at all, except that the screws holding up the sunshades on the interior like to fall out every six months or so :P

But the Focus has really improved over the past few years to near-Civic levels of reliability. Also, Hyundai has drastically improved the quality of their product over the past few years as well. As everyone says, check Consumer Reports, they'll back me up on this. I'm not going to get into what you should pay, but all things being equal, I would recommend any of the cars you're looking at.

witch_ie

I would recommend looking at Toyota's. You might not be able to afford a brand new one, but those things are incredibly reliable and relatively inexpensive to repair. Also, it was about 3 years ago, but I was able to get a 6 year old Toyota with reasonable (less than 15k/year) on it for 8000. I've had no problems with it since.

Also, in addition to Carfax (a must in my opinion) make sure you check to see if the original VIN stickers are on the car in the front. It's a really good way to tell if the car has been in a front end collision that didn't get reported. Also, check the Kelley Blue Book price before going to the dealer. When I went I quoted them the value I got from the point blank, ending annoying negotiations on the price. Interest was another matter.

Xaquin

whuppins wrote: »

That's true, there's a lot to be said for getting a model that's a few years into its lifespan, or even its current generation. My wife has a 2005 Focus with ~45,000 miles on it. No problems with it at all, except that the screws holding up the sunshades on the interior like to fall out every six months or so :P

heh that happened to mine too.

Pheezer

Fats wrote: »

DrDizaster wrote: »

You just suggested a Suzuki Swift over the recent Hyundais.

The current model Swift gets killer reviews over in Europe, but I don't think they're even sold here. (Why don't we get a single cool small car?)

The Hyundais will certainly get you from point A to B. That's not really a compliment, though.

If you're interested in a small car, the Smart fortwo, the Toyota Yaris, the Honda Fit and the Hyundai Accent all fit the bill. And the new Hyundais will do a hell of a lot more than that, do some research before you post.

If you really only need a car for yourself and maybe one other person, the Smart fortwo is the cheapest new car in the country with the fuel efficiency discount, coming in at $12,990 new for the 2008 model. Mercedes is either importing them or building them here, I suspect importing but you never know. Maybe try one out?

ViolentChemistry

So does everybody have something against Scions? Because it's odd to me that no one has mentioned them alongside the Yaris, Civic, Hyundais and Kias, and that's vaguely worrying because my next car is probably going to be either a tC or a Wrangler.

Fats

DrDizaster wrote: »

Fats wrote: »

DrDizaster wrote: »

You just suggested a Suzuki Swift over the recent Hyundais.

The current model Swift gets killer reviews over in Europe, but I don't think they're even sold here. (Why don't we get a single cool small car?)

The Hyundais will certainly get you from point A to B. That's not really a compliment, though.

If you're interested in a small car, the Smart fortwo, the Toyota Yaris, the Honda Fit and the Hyundai Accent all fit the bill. And the new Hyundais will do a hell of a lot more than that, do some research before you post.

Only the Fit is really cool, though. I want a Fiat 500.

Also, as far as I know, you can't get a Smart through non-grey channels yet.

Edit: Scions aren't bad, but I think they're on the high side of his budget.

Pheezer

The base MSRP on a Scion is like $16,000 US. And by base, I mean manual transmission and nothing added. And by US I mean cars in Canada are a GREAT deal more expensive than in the US for the most part.

It's not a compact in the sense that people drive them because they're affordable.

Neither are new Civics for that part, but one that's a good five years old is in the right price range.

Pheezer

Fats wrote: »

DrDizaster wrote: »

Fats wrote: »

DrDizaster wrote: »

You just suggested a Suzuki Swift over the recent Hyundais.

The current model Swift gets killer reviews over in Europe, but I don't think they're even sold here. (Why don't we get a single cool small car?)

The Hyundais will certainly get you from point A to B. That's not really a compliment, though.

If you're interested in a small car, the Smart fortwo, the Toyota Yaris, the Honda Fit and the Hyundai Accent all fit the bill. And the new Hyundais will do a hell of a lot more than that, do some research before you post.

Only the Fit is really cool, though. I want a Fiat 500.

Also, as far as I know, you can't get a Smart through non-grey channels yet.

Edit: Scions aren't bad, but I think they're on the high side of his budget.

You can get a Smart in Canada. I'm pretty sure that's where the OP is.

Shogun

Do they have a lot of big vehicles in Canada too? I'm just curious because I think the Smart looks cool but I am terrified to drive one and get in an accident, particularly with an SUV.

Pheezer

Shogun wrote: »

Do they have a lot of big vehicles in Canada too? I'm just curious because I think the Smart looks cool but I am terrified to drive one and get in an accident, particularly with an SUV.

I think the demographics in Canada are similar to comparable American cities. I'd feel at least as safe in a Smart as I would in a Yaris, though. They're designed not to get you killed.

Shogun

DrDizaster wrote: »

Shogun wrote: »

Do they have a lot of big vehicles in Canada too? I'm just curious because I think the Smart looks cool but I am terrified to drive one and get in an accident, particularly with an SUV.

I think the demographics in Canada are similar to comparable American cities. I'd feel at least as safe in a Smart as I would in a Yaris, though. They're designed not to get you killed.

So I've read, but I'm still timid. The NHTSA waits to rate vehicle's safety until they are released to mass market. I personally think it is a very bass-ackwards way of doing things here in the states but welcome to America. I've read about the Smart's steel cage but if you get hit high speed does it keep you from flying 50 feet away from the scene of the crash?

However at about $11,000 for a new car that gets 40+ MPG I think they're awesome. Living in a big city you could zip around town, slip through traffic, and park just about anywhere.

Pheezer

Shogun wrote: »

DrDizaster wrote: »

Shogun wrote: »

Do they have a lot of big vehicles in Canada too? I'm just curious because I think the Smart looks cool but I am terrified to drive one and get in an accident, particularly with an SUV.

I think the demographics in Canada are similar to comparable American cities. I'd feel at least as safe in a Smart as I would in a Yaris, though. They're designed not to get you killed.

So I've read, but I'm still timid. The NHTSA waits to rate vehicle's safety until they are released to mass market. I personally think it is a very bass-ackwards way of doing things here in the states but welcome to America. I've read about the Smart's steel cage but if you get hit high speed does it keep you from flying 50 feet away from the scene of the crash?

However at about $11,000 for a new car that gets 40+ MPG I think they're awesome. Living in a big city you could zip around town, slip through traffic, and park just about anywhere.

If you're wearing your seat belt, you'll be fine when the car comes to a stop, provided the car doesn't somehow land windshield first at high speed onto a five foot tall tree stump, position directly at your face.

Which seems a little unlikely. Although I'll agree that the NHTSA is doing a terribly stupid thing there.

It's an ideal vehicle if you're a city dweller. If you have to travel highways during the winter, it's not a great choice. I'd actually be pretty nervous doing that, if only because of the light weight of the vehicle and highways around here becoming a pretty treacherous combination of snow drifts and ice during the winter. If you can pick your highway travel days and only do it on clearer days, you'd probably be fine. Better off than you'd be with no car, I guess.

Still, cheap and reliable defined.

Fats

Shogun wrote: »

DrDizaster wrote: »

Shogun wrote: »

Do they have a lot of big vehicles in Canada too? I'm just curious because I think the Smart looks cool but I am terrified to drive one and get in an accident, particularly with an SUV.

I think the demographics in Canada are similar to comparable American cities. I'd feel at least as safe in a Smart as I would in a Yaris, though. They're designed not to get you killed.

So I've read, but I'm still timid. The NHTSA waits to rate vehicle's safety until they are released to mass market.

It does okay in the Euro NCAP tests. I'd be more concerned about the handling.

I don't really like them, but I'll admit they're second only to a motorbike in terms of city convenience.

Pheezer

Fats wrote: »

Shogun wrote: »

DrDizaster wrote: »

Shogun wrote: »

Do they have a lot of big vehicles in Canada too? I'm just curious because I think the Smart looks cool but I am terrified to drive one and get in an accident, particularly with an SUV.

I think the demographics in Canada are similar to comparable American cities. I'd feel at least as safe in a Smart as I would in a Yaris, though. They're designed not to get you killed.

So I've read, but I'm still timid. The NHTSA waits to rate vehicle's safety until they are released to mass market.

It does okay in the Euro NCAP tests. I'd be more concerned about the handling.

I don't really like them, but I'll admit they're second only to a motorbike in terms of city convenience.

Those don't look like the most realistic tests when it comes to what you'll do on a city street :P

ege02

Kyzen wrote: »

4 - What other sub $15000 new cars are worth looking at?

The new Honda Civics.

Got 2nd place in USNews' Affordable Small Cars list.

Gafoto

I don't understand how every time we get a car thread people immediately suggest brand new models. New cars are for chumps, let someone else pay for that new car smell (its quite expensive!). Get yourself a turn of the millenium Civic or Corolla. Cavaliers are pieces of shit but if you can get a Cobalt for a decent price they are significantly improved (which is why they didn't want to associate it by naming it the same thing). You've already heard about the Focus.

Seriously, get yourself one of those cars with a full Carfax report from dealer or private owner and you'll be in good shape. Keep on the maintenance schedule and you won't have too many surprises.

Pheezer

ege02 wrote: »

Kyzen wrote: »

4 - What other sub $15000 new cars are worth looking at?

The new Honda Civics.

Got 2nd place in USNews' Affordable Small Cars list.

Look up how much a Civic costs in Canada.

Fats

I'm still confused about this Canada stuff, his profile says Colorado.

I have a question though myself, actually. I was wondering about the reliability and longevity of Audi's.

I missed this earlier, don't do it.

amateurhour

I don't have anything personal against the scion, but the xA (the big boxy one) has some less than perfect crash tests, and a slight rollover risk, both the xA and xB are a little underpowered for what you're paying, and the tC was out of his price range, even used, cause it's still popular (I've yet to see a DECENT used one for under 12k)

That's why I didn't mention them