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My new home purchase: am I being unreasonable, do I have a case?
Yall
Registered User regular
Registered User regular
Recently signed a contract to buy a house with a nice finished basement. While we are waiting for a closing date, the basement floods, causing all sorts of damage. The seller assured my realtor and I it will be brought back up to the original condition. My realtor asks what happened to the dry bar in the basement, was it damaged too? The seller says 'no, I took it with me when I moved'. My realtor explains to him that was supposed be part of the sale and he should bring it back. At that point he agreed.
Fast forward to last weekend, we went to the house with our home inspector to make sure this incident was limited to this one time and that the problem was with a power outage causing a sump pump failure and not a problem with the foundation. Plus, we wanted to have the quality of the work inspected (drywall, furnace, paint, etc).
The home inspector is satified that everything looks good, and from all indications the water came through the sump, which, had it been operating properly, would have been avoided (my theory is the seller left it unplugged - he was making a sump cover per an addendum to the contract. He claims it was a power outage). The seller then states that he has no intention of bringing back the bar unless we agree to finish the work ourselves. I say "no way".
We decide to leave it up the our lawyers, but I think I have a pretty strong case. The listing from the website specifically stated "fully finished basement rec room features dry bar" and we have a printout of this dated 2 days before the contract was signed. Since then 'someone' modified the website to remove the bar. My contention is that if the bar wasn't to be included and the listing was a mistake it should have been identified on the contract as an exclusion. I have asked my lawyer to inform them that we will not close until the basement is restored and the bar is returned.
Am i being unreasonable? Assuming all the proper repairs are made, am I being too much of a ballbuster about a bar that could be replaced for about $400-$500?
Just curious as to the opinions of my fellow forumers.
Fast forward to last weekend, we went to the house with our home inspector to make sure this incident was limited to this one time and that the problem was with a power outage causing a sump pump failure and not a problem with the foundation. Plus, we wanted to have the quality of the work inspected (drywall, furnace, paint, etc).
The home inspector is satified that everything looks good, and from all indications the water came through the sump, which, had it been operating properly, would have been avoided (my theory is the seller left it unplugged - he was making a sump cover per an addendum to the contract. He claims it was a power outage). The seller then states that he has no intention of bringing back the bar unless we agree to finish the work ourselves. I say "no way".
We decide to leave it up the our lawyers, but I think I have a pretty strong case. The listing from the website specifically stated "fully finished basement rec room features dry bar" and we have a printout of this dated 2 days before the contract was signed. Since then 'someone' modified the website to remove the bar. My contention is that if the bar wasn't to be included and the listing was a mistake it should have been identified on the contract as an exclusion. I have asked my lawyer to inform them that we will not close until the basement is restored and the bar is returned.
Am i being unreasonable? Assuming all the proper repairs are made, am I being too much of a ballbuster about a bar that could be replaced for about $400-$500?
Just curious as to the opinions of my fellow forumers.
Yall on
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If the basement is fully/mostly finished, how did the basement flood due simply to a sump pump failure? I've got a sump in my basement and they do have issues sometimes -- mine has a bobber that likes to get stuck. But I've got a dirt basement, and it seeps. A basement that's finished should have a sump only as a last resort, because a sump means "water is in here and I need to pump it out." Flooding is serious shit and fixing a foundation is not easy work. If it flooded recently it will flood again, meaning you will probably lose faith in storing anything down there or planning parties/hangouts down there, which would really suck.
But if it's the best place for the best price, ignore the problem and look at getting a better dry bar once you live in the place. Push for $500 off since it was advertised (and you put in a contract under the assumption) as having a dry bar, and that without it it's worth less. It's not YOUR fault it flooded.
I'd be more concerned about the flooding than the bar, personally. I assume you mean it came through the sump "exhaust" pipe, which has never happened to me but this house may have a different sump system.
Seriously.
Actually, that isn't completely true.
Newer homes are designed to have water move from around the foundation through the drain tiles and into the sump. It is designed to protect the foundation from cracks by removing hydrostatic pressure.
In other words, the water literally comes up through the sump. If there was a failure (power outage, etc.) it will continue to rise.
Really, imho you should be more concerned about having the basement completely restored to its pre-flood state before you move in. Because, if it is not, and you have to pay to have it finished, then you will most likely have to go to court to get reimbersed over the final repair costs out of your pocket. Really, if this guy is willing to sign a legal document to state that he will have the basement 100% restored and wants to keep his drybar... I'd probably let him.
Make sure anything agreed to is signed.
Talk to your lawyer about it.
If you are fighting on principle, you will loose money. Remember that.
Other than that, he is totally in the wrong.
AIM: Yarrfooey
That's why you got a lawyer in the first place, if they're good, you're all but taken care of.
You pretty much summed up what I was thinking.
More or less, I felt a tad guilty, since this guy is paying for a new furnace, new berber, new pergo flooring, drywall, painting, on top of having to pay an electrician, plumber, and my home inspector to come and re-inspect the basement. I understand it's all his responsibility to maintain the condition of the property prior to closing, but I was trying to put myself in his shoes. He has to lay out all of this cash, and has 2 mortgage payments, and I can understand how that might put him in a rough spot, and he is trying to use the bar as a bargaining chip to get me to close prior to the work being completed (or to try and get me to do it myself).
At the same time, you would think that he must consider the fact that all of this could put the sale in jeopardy, and potentially delay things by 90 days or more if he has to find another buyer. After all, it's not as though selling a home is the easiest thing to do right now. You'd think he would suck it up and understand that he screwed himself by listing the bar and then trying to be cute by taking it. I don't wanna screw the guy over, but I myself don't want to be screwed. Sort of a weird situation, and I'm glad other folks see it my way, assuming that my side of the story is accurate.
However, if you really feel bad for the seller and don't want to delay the closing, compromise with him. Ask for $250 - 300 so you can purchase your own wet bar and be done with it. Last thing you want is to be drawn into needless litigation over a $500 wet bar. Only people who win then are the lawyers.
Personally, I don't feel for him at all. It's a real prick move to try and pull fast ones when someone has just handed you hundreds of thousands of currency.
It also reminds me that after selling our flat, they discovered a sewage pipe leaking into the basement, which we are shouldering the cost for, and I still haven't had the repair bill for it yet. I better give my solicitor a call...
Basically that is where we are at.
His lawyer sent my lawyer a note saying "sorry, no bar" to which my lawyer responded "no bar, no close".
Still waiting on their response. I figure he will budge before I do, since he is looking at 2 mortgage payments and a soft market.
The only other possibility is that he found another buyer who made a better offer and he is trying to get me to pull out, but I have a lot of patience. ;-)
Possibly, depending on his coverage.
Given that I will have fair amount of recording and AV equipment in the basement, my insurance policy will cover water damage (and I made sure it will provide covereage in the event of a failed sump pump or power outage - some don't!!!).
His policy may have covered this, but he won't see a dime from the insurance compnay for another month - they are slow when it comes to handing out cash.
To that end, you can buy battery backups for sump pumps for a few hundred dollars (if that). They're easy enough that you can install them yourself. My boss had a basement flood in his house when the power went out. He got one of these, and they work great (for a few days). They are basically a boat battery and a weak pump that you put in with a float that triggers above the level of the main pump. That way they work when the power fails, and when the normal sump fails too. You may even be able to get a discount on the water damage insurance by putting one of these in.
Yep, there is one now. Great advice.
There is also another type of sump pump that requires no power, and runs off water pressure.
You're not being unreasonable at all. Makes me wonder what else he's going to pull, though.
PSN: Broichan
*relevant story*
My parents bought a house out here, including a hot tub, above-ground pool, and various 'built in' storage options.
All of these were in the contract, all were removed by the seller. They then Kennelled there dogs in the house while they moved out of state. (leaving the mongrels to destroy carpet, doors, doorframes and the built-in breakfast table). Here in Oregon - ALL of that is illegal.
Thier realtor contacted the sellers realtor about it, before accepting close and final walkthrough - and had something like 20 thousand returned on the purchase price. So it worked out for them anyway - but you can't let the seller pull what is only a bait-and-switch.
If you purchased a house with a built-in dry bar - you own that drybar and he's STEALING it from you just the same as if he smashed a window and took your computer. Fsck him.
XFIRE:redspo0n (Yep, Zero in there) XBL: Pinkspo0n
I used to appraise residential homes professionally. This statement is rubbish.
Thanks to everyone for their thoughts and comments. One more reason to love these forums!