I don't think that the "old testament" can be blamed for violence, because, as Mark Twain said, "The Jew is not a disturber of the peace of any country. Even his enemies will concede that. He is not a loafer, he is not a sot, he is not noisy, he is not a brawler nor a rioter, he is not quarrelsome. In the statistics of crime his presence is conspicuously rare — in all countries. With murder and other crimes of violence he has but little to do: he is a stranger to the hangman. In the police court's daily long roll of 'assaults' and 'drunk and disorderlies' his name seldom appears ..." and "These facts are all on the credit side of the proposition that the Jew is a good and orderly citizen. Summed up, they certify that he is quiet, peaceable, industrious, unaddicted to high crimes and brutal dispositions; that his family life is commendable; that he is not a burden upon public charities; that he is not a beggar; that in benevolence he is above the reach of competition. These are the very quint-essentials of good citizenship."
Contrast w/ this: "They all did their best--to kill being the chiefest ambition of the human race and the earliest incident in its history-- but only the Christian civilization has scored a triumph to be proud of. Two or three centuries from now it will be recognized that all the competent killers are Christians; then the pagan world will go to school to the Christian--not to acquire his religion, but his guns."
That does seem a lot easier than actually trying to rebut my argument.
what argument? that that passage is ambiguous? please, please show me how that passage can be construed in some other way. especially with the telling of the Good Samaritan parable immediately afterwards.
How many Muslims have you met, Church? I mean, really. Really.
oh, i'm sure he's met at least some, but i'm equally sure he hesn't talked with any of them about their faith
Pants Man on
"okay byron, my grandma has a right to be happy, so i give you my blessing. just... don't get her pregnant. i don't need another mom."
How many Muslims have you met, Church? I mean, really. Really.
I'm from the Caucasus. Which means, quite a few. Half the student population of this school is Moslem. Hell, I'm sleeping with a Moslem. How is this relevant?
Emulating the act but not the belief does not make you a member of that religion.
Yeah, I understand that you think this. But it's wrong. There's no reasoning attached to it other than "This is what I think".
Your lack of reasoning and blatant trolling in this thread is quite awesome.
So, the man who beats his wife out of a sense of superiority, who has no idea who or what a "Mooo-Hommm-ED" is, is a muslim. Just because he knows muslim men are superior to women so he self-identifies, that means that he is right.
Sure.
What's the word for this? It's not irony. Is it just coincidence?
I mean, coincidence that the person that is arguing he can tell someone that identifies as a Christian, "You're not a Christian because you don't believe what I believe", is telling me that I'm a troll because I don't agree with him?
Emulating the act but not the belief does not make you a member of that religion.
Yeah, I understand that you think this. But it's wrong. There's no reasoning attached to it other than "This is what I think".
No, he's right. Religion is founded on a belief. You can go through the motions of any other member of the religion, but without that belief as a foundation your actions are hollow.
If the person's belief is that the act is just as important, then no, not really.
Ya, really. It means you're also a good person in the eyes of whatever deity and the people of that faith, but it doesn't make you a member. In some religions, just doing those actions is enough to earn you praise, and may make you almost as good as a member, but you're still not. In the case of Catholics you need to be baptized. You can love your neighbor and all that, but won't make you a Catholic.
How many Muslims have you met, Church? I mean, really. Really.
I'm from the Caucasus. Which means, quite a few. Half the student population of this school is Moslem. Hell, I'm sleeping with a Moslem. How is this relevant?
You're claiming that if a non-Muslim acts according to how Muslims act that person is Muslim. But Muslims are strict in their practices, and had you met any Muslims who took their faith seriously you'd know that a guy who beat his wife and, because of that, claimed he was Muslim is very far from being Muslim. It's almost insulting.
Emulating the act but not the belief does not make you a member of that religion.
Yeah, I understand that you think this. But it's wrong. There's no reasoning attached to it other than "This is what I think".
No, he's right. Religion is founded on a belief. You can go through the motions of any other member of the religion, but without that belief as a foundation your actions are hollow.
If the person's belief is that the act is just as important, then no, not really.
Ya, really. It means you're also a good person in the eyes of whatever deity and the people of that faith, but it doesn't make you a member. In some religions, just doing those actions is enough to earn you praise, and may make you almost as good as a member, but you're still not. In the case of Catholics you need to be baptized. You can love your neighbor and all that, but won't make you a Catholic.
Isn't Catholocism a denomination of Christianity?
If so, you are correct, but I could still identify as a Christian and no Catholic could tell me I'm not one.
How many Muslims have you met, Church? I mean, really. Really.
I'm from the Caucasus. Which means, quite a few. Half the student population of this school is Moslem. Hell, I'm sleeping with a Moslem. How is this relevant?
You're claiming that if a non-Muslim acts according to how Muslims act that person is Muslim. But Muslims are strict in their practices, and had you met any Muslims who took their faith seriously you'd know that a guy who beat his wife and, because of that, claimed he was Muslim is very far from being Muslim. It's almost insulting.
No. It's "very far" from what other Moslems consider a Moslem to be. If he believes that that's what Islam is about, and identifies as Moslem, then he is a Moslem.
How many Muslims have you met, Church? I mean, really. Really.
I'm from the Caucasus. Which means, quite a few. Half the student population of this school is Moslem. Hell, I'm sleeping with a Moslem. How is this relevant?
You're claiming that if a non-Muslim acts according to how Muslims act that person is Muslim. But Muslims are strict in their practices, and had you met any Muslims who took their faith seriously you'd know that a guy who beat his wife and, because of that, claimed he was Muslim is very far from being Muslim. It's almost insulting.
No. It's "very far" from what other Moslems consider a Moslem to be. If he believes that that's what Islam is about, and identifies as Moslem, then he is a Moslem.
Emulating the act but not the belief does not make you a member of that religion.
Yeah, I understand that you think this. But it's wrong. There's no reasoning attached to it other than "This is what I think".
Your lack of reasoning and blatant trolling in this thread is quite awesome.
So, the man who beats his wife out of a sense of superiority, who has no idea who or what a "Mooo-Hommm-ED" is, is a muslim. Just because he knows muslim men are superior to women so he self-identifies, that means that he is right.
Sure.
What's the word for this? It's not irony. Is it just coincidence?
I mean, coincidence that the person that is arguing he can tell someone that identifies as a Christian, "You're not a Christian because you don't believe what I believe", is telling me that I'm a troll because I don't agree with him?
Fail again sir.
My beliefs never entered my argument. I simply stated that your answer to the question was incorrect for reasons I have already given.
You can earn back your humanity from the realm of troll by explaining how the wife-beater is in fact a muslim without knowing who muhammed is, and how the saltine eater is a Christian.
If you were to study Christianity as a whole, all people who claim to be Christian would fall into that category. But if you were to become a Christian, then you would have a more narrow definition of one, and thus many people would not be considered a member of the same belief as yourself. People are squabbling over an equivocation, some have one definition of Christian and some another definition. But the question posed in the OP asked about a specific group of Christians, a group that many other Christians do not see as Christians. This is a perfectly reasonable answer. It says several things:
-this group does not represent the larger category of all Christians
-do not judge all Christian's beliefs by theirs
-many Christians hold to different beliefs and practices (even though they are based on the same things)
There been an effort to clump up different people into one single group to be ridiculed. Its like saying that Hitler (or very bad man) was an atheist (or Christian, Muslim, Jew, what have you) and thus all atheists are evil (want to repress the gays, kill all believers, blow up the moon).
How many Muslims have you met, Church? I mean, really. Really.
I'm from the Caucasus. Which means, quite a few. Half the student population of this school is Moslem. Hell, I'm sleeping with a Moslem. How is this relevant?
You're claiming that if a non-Muslim acts according to how Muslims act that person is Muslim. But Muslims are strict in their practices, and had you met any Muslims who took their faith seriously you'd know that a guy who beat his wife and, because of that, claimed he was Muslim is very far from being Muslim. It's almost insulting.
No. It's "very far" from what other Moslems consider a Moslem to be. If he believes that that's what Islam is about, and identifies as Moslem, then he is a Moslem.
How many Muslims have you met, Church? I mean, really. Really.
I'm from the Caucasus. Which means, quite a few. Half the student population of this school is Moslem. Hell, I'm sleeping with a Moslem. How is this relevant?
You're claiming that if a non-Muslim acts according to how Muslims act that person is Muslim. But Muslims are strict in their practices, and had you met any Muslims who took their faith seriously you'd know that a guy who beat his wife and, because of that, claimed he was Muslim is very far from being Muslim. It's almost insulting.
No. It's "very far" from what other Moslems consider a Moslem to be. If he believes that that's what Islam is about, and identifies as Moslem, then he is a Moslem.
No, he is delusional.
Why? Because other Moslems say so?
Because I'm the Queen of England. No, seriously. I am really the Queen of England. I'm a guy from Toronto who's never been to England but I am the Queen of England. You can't tell me I'm not because I say I am.
This isn't a matter of perspective, which is what you're saying it is.
Because I'm the Queen of England. No, seriously. I am really the Queen of England. I'm a guy from Toronto who's never been to England but I am the Queen of England. You can't tell me I'm not because I say I am.
This isn't a matter of perspective, which is what you're saying it is.
See, the thing is, we can go to England and verify whether you're the Queen or not. If we could have God verify who's a "real" Christian and who's not, it wouldn't be a matter of perspective. But we can't, so it is.
I realize that wikipedia has lots of fun things to say, but it still doesn't address the fact that Christians and Catholics believe very different things. Although how would anyone know, considering that most people (especially people that consider themselves to be Christian) don't have any real idea what the Bible has to say about most anything.
This is really astounding. I can't believe I'm reading this.
Pray tell, what non-Christian denomination of Christianity do you belong to? I apologize if you've been asked this already, but you're spouting some incredibly inane shit, and I think that would help me understand why.
I realize that wikipedia has lots of fun things to say, but it still doesn't address the fact that Christians and Catholics believe very different things. Although how would anyone know, considering that most people (especially people that consider themselves to be Christian) don't have any real idea what the Bible has to say about most anything.
Having been raised as a devout Molokan, I can confidently say "No".
Aren't Catholics the Christians which are most noted for having the most... What's the less offensive word here...
Contrived rituals?
But, if I act good and help the poor, am I acting Christian? Or is a Christian who acts good and helps the poor just being good (And possibly out of character :P ).
Because I'm the Queen of England. No, seriously. I am really the Queen of England. I'm a guy from Toronto who's never been to England but I am the Queen of England. You can't tell me I'm not because I say I am.
This isn't a matter of perspective, which is what you're saying it is.
See, the thing is, we can go to England and verify whether you're the Queen or not. If we could have God verify who's a "real" Christian and who's not, it wouldn't be a matter of perspective. But we can't, so it is.
So because all the English acknowledge some old bat is the Queen, that means I'm not the Queen? That doesn't follow your logic at all.
Because I'm the Queen of England. No, seriously. I am really the Queen of England. I'm a guy from Toronto who's never been to England but I am the Queen of England. You can't tell me I'm not because I say I am.
This isn't a matter of perspective, which is what you're saying it is.
See, the thing is, we can go to England and verify whether you're the Queen or not. If we could have God verify who's a "real" Christian and who's not, it wouldn't be a matter of perspective. But we can't, so it is.
So because all the English acknowledge some old bat is the Queen, that means I'm not the Queen? That doesn't follow your logic at all.
It does, really. There is a fixed, definite position of "Queen", by the nation of England. Presumably, if the Christian god exists, there is also a definite definition of what a Christian really is. But even if that is the case, we can't ask God what that definition is. In your analogy, God is England, and the Christian is the Queen.
Belong? I don't "belong" to anything. I have a Bible, I've read it. I've been to a number of Catholic churches and they believe different things than the Christian churches I've been to. The bible says that the ONLY way to Heaven is through jesus, yet the catholic church teaches and practices otherwise. It seems like that doctrinal difference alone would separate them.
You're a lunatic. I'm not really trying to attack you with that, but you are patently insane.
The bible says a lot of things. I'm not prepared to cite, but I'm somewhere between 65% and 93% positive that there are several verses in the bible that say how to die in good standing, and many of them can contradict one another on that very matter.
I'm nobody to stand up for Christians, but you're a presumptuous cock to assume that you have the right to decide that millions and millions of people aren't what they've been calling themselves for the past several fucking centuries.
I'll take it your a Christian. Or, at least, you would label yourself as such, because apparently you and you alone can deign to dignify somebody with the title. You do know where the term "Christian" comes from, right? Now just tell me who the fuck do you see staring down at the congregation at every fucking Catholic church in the world?!
Belong? I don't "belong" to anything. I have a Bible, I've read it. I've been to a number of Catholic churches and they believe different things than the Christian churches I've been to. The bible says that the ONLY way to Heaven is through jesus, yet the catholic church teaches and practices (i.e. confession and the rest of the ritual) otherwise. It seems like that doctrinal difference alone would separate them.
I'm glad Crashtard came along. He really demonstrates my point rather well. Don't pretend to be the master of your religion. In Christianity (Or, every form of it I know of), God is the master. He decides who's doing it right. Don't presume to be able to decide who's "really" a member and who's not. Because, to somewhere out there, your standards of inclusion seem just as insane as I presume Crashtard's do to everyone here.
Because I'm the Queen of England. No, seriously. I am really the Queen of England. I'm a guy from Toronto who's never been to England but I am the Queen of England. You can't tell me I'm not because I say I am.
This isn't a matter of perspective, which is what you're saying it is.
See, the thing is, we can go to England and verify whether you're the Queen or not. If we could have God verify who's a "real" Christian and who's not, it wouldn't be a matter of perspective. But we can't, so it is.
So because all the English acknowledge some old bat is the Queen, that means I'm not the Queen? That doesn't follow your logic at all.
It does, really. There is a fixed, definite position of "Queen", by the nation of England. Presumably, if the Christian god exists, there is also a definite definition of what a Christian really is. But even if that is the case, we can't ask God what that definition is. In your analogy, God is England, and the Christian is the Queen.
Church, you're not going to go and check bloodlines and research who is the rightful heir to the throne, so in the case of the Queen thing, England is, for you, just as inaccessible as God. I highly doubt you are going to go through the trouble of finding out whether I have any claim at all to English royalty. Most people would take one look at me, then at the current "Queen", take in our appearances and see that one of us is more like the Queen than the other.
The difference between the Queen and some guy from Toronto, in this case, is like the difference between a Muslim and some guy from Toronto. The guy from Toronto can make all the claims he wants, can behave in ways queenly or behave in some ways like a Muslim, but that still doesn't make him the Queen or a Muslim. Their claim is false.
The difference between the Queen and some guy from Toronto, in this case, is like the difference between a Muslim and some guy from Toronto. The guy from Toronto can make all the claims he wants, can behave in ways queenly or behave in some ways like a Muslim, but that still doesn't make him the Queen or a Muslim. Their claim is false.
Why? You're not providing any reasoning for saying that he's not a Moslem. If he believes in Islam, he is a Moslem. The fact that he practises it in a manner that is different from the majority of Islam is nobody's business but his and Allah's.
Crashtard, there are a couple members of my family who were originally Anglican but converted to Catholicism in order to be married. I've asked, and the differences between the Anglican church and the Catholic church are so small that the transition was incredibly easy. Two very large Christian denominations, both extremely alike. And all those that came after those two institutions, also quite similar.
Emulating the act but not the belief does not make you a member of that religion.
Yeah, I understand that you think this. But it's wrong. There's no reasoning attached to it other than "This is what I think".
No, he's right. Religion is founded on a belief. You can go through the motions of any other member of the religion, but without that belief as a foundation your actions are hollow.
If the person's belief is that the act is just as important, then no, not really.
Ya, really. It means you're also a good person in the eyes of whatever deity and the people of that faith, but it doesn't make you a member. In some religions, just doing those actions is enough to earn you praise, and may make you almost as good as a member, but you're still not. In the case of Catholics you need to be baptized. You can love your neighbor and all that, but won't make you a Catholic.
Actually, Christian policy seems to be weather you are Christian or not determines your post-life status. With catholics, baptism is one of the requirements of Christianity.
The difference between the Queen and some guy from Toronto, in this case, is like the difference between a Muslim and some guy from Toronto. The guy from Toronto can make all the claims he wants, can behave in ways queenly or behave in some ways like a Muslim, but that still doesn't make him the Queen or a Muslim. Their claim is false.
Why? You're not providing any reasoning for saying that he's not a Moslem. If he believes in Islam, he is a Moslem. The fact that he practises it in a manner that is different from the majority of Islam is nobody's business but his and Allah's.
Because religions, which are founded on certain beliefs also have certain guidelines regarding how one joins that religion. Catholics need to be baptized, I don't know the details, but those converting to Judaism also must go through a process. To enter as a member into any religion requires certain rituals to be performed. You can share the same beliefs as a Muslim/Catholic/Whatever, but that doesn't make you one of them. You're just a guy with some beliefs. I like to watch movies, but that doesn't mean I'm a member at Blockbuster.
I'm glad Crashtard came along. He really demonstrates my point rather well. Don't pretend to be the master of your religion. In Christianity (Or, every form of it I know of), God is the master. He decides who's doing it right. Don't presume to be able to decide who's "really" a member and who's not. Because, to somewhere out there, your standards of inclusion seem just as insane as I presume Crashtard's do to everyone here.
If it sounded like I was trying to be the master of any religion it wasn't my intent. I was just trying to point out some of the fundamental differences of what catholic and christian actually means as far as I am concerned.
I'm glad Crashtard came along. He really demonstrates my point rather well. Don't pretend to be the master of your religion. In Christianity (Or, every form of it I know of), God is the master. He decides who's doing it right. Don't presume to be able to decide who's "really" a member and who's not. Because, to somewhere out there, your standards of inclusion seem just as insane as I presume Crashtard's do to everyone here.
If it sounded like I was trying to be the master of any religion it wasn't my intent. I was just trying to point out some of the fundamental differences of what catholic and christian actually means as far as I am concerned.
lol, nice. caught me in the middle of an edit/delete. good one.
The difference between the Queen and some guy from Toronto, in this case, is like the difference between a Muslim and some guy from Toronto. The guy from Toronto can make all the claims he wants, can behave in ways queenly or behave in some ways like a Muslim, but that still doesn't make him the Queen or a Muslim. Their claim is false.
Why? You're not providing any reasoning for saying that he's not a Moslem. If he believes in Islam, he is a Moslem. The fact that he practises it in a manner that is different from the majority of Islam is nobody's business but his and Allah's.
Thats the thing, that guy from Toronto who suddenly decides, hey, I like the word "Allah" so from now on I'm going to call myself a Muslim.
That does not make him a Muslim, he does not follow the rituals and spiritual laws as passed down in the Qaran. All the other muslims will tell you that he is not only not a true muslim, but that he isnt a muslim at all.
Thats the thing about Christians. The fundamental avengelical christians are almost exactly like that random person claiming to be Muslim. The unfortunate part is there is such a huge denomination of them, that it makes it harder for the mainline religion to denounce. Add to the fact that the Catholic Church with the Pope is the only truly organized religion based on the bible that has a clear head of state that could possibly denounce them. But he cant denounce them as not being Catholic because they dont say they are, and thats the only thing he could really denounce them from being.
Its been a long time since the Catholic Church has declared anyone outright to be heretical for not following the bible. Because they arent declaring anyone heretic, anyone can claim to be a form of Christian, and there will not be anyone to denounce it.
Its true the fundamentalist avengelicals base themselves around the bible, but only loosely. They try their hardest to hate all the right people, but thats only 1/10 of the bible. The rest of the bible is about being generous with both your love, time, and possessions to your fellow man, especially those who have nothing. When is the last time you saw these mega million dollar churches open up another homeless shelter, food bank, etc etc.
If I believe that Jesus of Nazareth was the "messiah", but I'm also a deist, it means I'm not a Baptist, or a Methodist, or a Catholic, or a Molokan, because deism is contrary to what all those denominations believe. But, by that belief, I'm still a Christian. The same applies to the belief in God and that Mohammed was God's prophet, with Islam and its various denominations, and whatever other beliefs and actions a person tacks on to that belief.
I'm glad Crashtard came along. He really demonstrates my point rather well. Don't pretend to be the master of your religion. In Christianity (Or, every form of it I know of), God is the master. He decides who's doing it right. Don't presume to be able to decide who's "really" a member and who's not. Because, to somewhere out there, your standards of inclusion seem just as insane as I presume Crashtard's do to everyone here.
If it sounded like I was trying to be the master of any religion it wasn't my intent. I was just trying to point out some of the fundamental differences of what catholic and christian actually means as far as I am concerned.
lol, nice. caught me in the middle of an edit/delete. good one.
Actually, I quoted you, and changed your post to reflect what you meant, as opposed to what you posted. I didn't notice you edit anything, if you did.
The difference between the Queen and some guy from Toronto, in this case, is like the difference between a Muslim and some guy from Toronto. The guy from Toronto can make all the claims he wants, can behave in ways queenly or behave in some ways like a Muslim, but that still doesn't make him the Queen or a Muslim. Their claim is false.
Why? You're not providing any reasoning for saying that he's not a Moslem. If he believes in Islam, he is a Moslem. The fact that he practises it in a manner that is different from the majority of Islam is nobody's business but his and Allah's.
Because religions, which are founded on certain beliefs also have certain guidelines regarding how one joins that religion. Catholics need to be baptized, I don't know the details, but those converting to Judaism also must go through a process. To enter as a member into any religion requires certain rituals to be performed. You can share the same beliefs as a Muslim/Catholic/Whatever, but that doesn't make you one of them. You're just a guy with some beliefs. I like to watch movies, but that doesn't mean I'm a member at Blockbuster.
You cannot convert to Judaism, as this implies going straight from one religion to another and even discussing joining Judaism with a member of another faith is considered proselytizing by many rabbis. You have to quit your current religion first, at which point you can start the initiation process (which, I must say, seems designed to weed out those not dedicated enough, from what I've heard of the process).
And, lastly, Muslim, god damn it, Muslim!
If I believe that Jesus of Nazareth was the "messiah", but I'm also a deist, it means I'm not a Baptist, or a Methodist, or a Catholic, or a Molokan, because deism is contrary to what all those denominations believe. But, by that belief, I'm still a Christian. The same applies to the belief in God and that Allah was God's prophet, with Islam and its various denominations, and whatever other beliefs and actions a person tacks on to that belief.
Posts
Contrast w/ this: "They all did their best--to kill being the chiefest ambition of the human race and the earliest incident in its history-- but only the Christian civilization has scored a triumph to be proud of. Two or three centuries from now it will be recognized that all the competent killers are Christians; then the pagan world will go to school to the Christian--not to acquire his religion, but his guns."
what argument? that that passage is ambiguous? please, please show me how that passage can be construed in some other way. especially with the telling of the Good Samaritan parable immediately afterwards.
oh, i'm sure he's met at least some, but i'm equally sure he hesn't talked with any of them about their faith
I'm from the Caucasus. Which means, quite a few. Half the student population of this school is Moslem. Hell, I'm sleeping with a Moslem. How is this relevant?
What's the word for this? It's not irony. Is it just coincidence?
I mean, coincidence that the person that is arguing he can tell someone that identifies as a Christian, "You're not a Christian because you don't believe what I believe", is telling me that I'm a troll because I don't agree with him?
Ya, really. It means you're also a good person in the eyes of whatever deity and the people of that faith, but it doesn't make you a member. In some religions, just doing those actions is enough to earn you praise, and may make you almost as good as a member, but you're still not. In the case of Catholics you need to be baptized. You can love your neighbor and all that, but won't make you a Catholic.
You're claiming that if a non-Muslim acts according to how Muslims act that person is Muslim. But Muslims are strict in their practices, and had you met any Muslims who took their faith seriously you'd know that a guy who beat his wife and, because of that, claimed he was Muslim is very far from being Muslim. It's almost insulting.
Isn't Catholocism a denomination of Christianity?
If so, you are correct, but I could still identify as a Christian and no Catholic could tell me I'm not one.
No. It's "very far" from what other Moslems consider a Moslem to be. If he believes that that's what Islam is about, and identifies as Moslem, then he is a Moslem.
No, he is delusional.
Fail again sir.
My beliefs never entered my argument. I simply stated that your answer to the question was incorrect for reasons I have already given.
You can earn back your humanity from the realm of troll by explaining how the wife-beater is in fact a muslim without knowing who muhammed is, and how the saltine eater is a Christian.
If you were to study Christianity as a whole, all people who claim to be Christian would fall into that category. But if you were to become a Christian, then you would have a more narrow definition of one, and thus many people would not be considered a member of the same belief as yourself. People are squabbling over an equivocation, some have one definition of Christian and some another definition. But the question posed in the OP asked about a specific group of Christians, a group that many other Christians do not see as Christians. This is a perfectly reasonable answer. It says several things:
-this group does not represent the larger category of all Christians
-do not judge all Christian's beliefs by theirs
-many Christians hold to different beliefs and practices (even though they are based on the same things)
There been an effort to clump up different people into one single group to be ridiculed. Its like saying that Hitler (or very bad man) was an atheist (or Christian, Muslim, Jew, what have you) and thus all atheists are evil (want to repress the gays, kill all believers, blow up the moon).
Why? Because other Moslems say so?
Really?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catholicism
Because I'm the Queen of England. No, seriously. I am really the Queen of England. I'm a guy from Toronto who's never been to England but I am the Queen of England. You can't tell me I'm not because I say I am.
This isn't a matter of perspective, which is what you're saying it is.
See, the thing is, we can go to England and verify whether you're the Queen or not. If we could have God verify who's a "real" Christian and who's not, it wouldn't be a matter of perspective. But we can't, so it is.
This is really astounding. I can't believe I'm reading this.
Pray tell, what non-Christian denomination of Christianity do you belong to? I apologize if you've been asked this already, but you're spouting some incredibly inane shit, and I think that would help me understand why.
Having been raised as a devout Molokan, I can confidently say "No".
Contrived rituals?
But, if I act good and help the poor, am I acting Christian? Or is a Christian who acts good and helps the poor just being good (And possibly out of character :P ).
So because all the English acknowledge some old bat is the Queen, that means I'm not the Queen? That doesn't follow your logic at all.
It does, really. There is a fixed, definite position of "Queen", by the nation of England. Presumably, if the Christian god exists, there is also a definite definition of what a Christian really is. But even if that is the case, we can't ask God what that definition is. In your analogy, God is England, and the Christian is the Queen.
You're a lunatic. I'm not really trying to attack you with that, but you are patently insane.
The bible says a lot of things. I'm not prepared to cite, but I'm somewhere between 65% and 93% positive that there are several verses in the bible that say how to die in good standing, and many of them can contradict one another on that very matter.
I'm nobody to stand up for Christians, but you're a presumptuous cock to assume that you have the right to decide that millions and millions of people aren't what they've been calling themselves for the past several fucking centuries.
I'll take it your a Christian. Or, at least, you would label yourself as such, because apparently you and you alone can deign to dignify somebody with the title. You do know where the term "Christian" comes from, right? Now just tell me who the fuck do you see staring down at the congregation at every fucking Catholic church in the world?!
Church, you're not going to go and check bloodlines and research who is the rightful heir to the throne, so in the case of the Queen thing, England is, for you, just as inaccessible as God. I highly doubt you are going to go through the trouble of finding out whether I have any claim at all to English royalty. Most people would take one look at me, then at the current "Queen", take in our appearances and see that one of us is more like the Queen than the other.
The difference between the Queen and some guy from Toronto, in this case, is like the difference between a Muslim and some guy from Toronto. The guy from Toronto can make all the claims he wants, can behave in ways queenly or behave in some ways like a Muslim, but that still doesn't make him the Queen or a Muslim. Their claim is false.
Why? You're not providing any reasoning for saying that he's not a Moslem. If he believes in Islam, he is a Moslem. The fact that he practises it in a manner that is different from the majority of Islam is nobody's business but his and Allah's.
Actually, Christian policy seems to be weather you are Christian or not determines your post-life status. With catholics, baptism is one of the requirements of Christianity.
Because religions, which are founded on certain beliefs also have certain guidelines regarding how one joins that religion. Catholics need to be baptized, I don't know the details, but those converting to Judaism also must go through a process. To enter as a member into any religion requires certain rituals to be performed. You can share the same beliefs as a Muslim/Catholic/Whatever, but that doesn't make you one of them. You're just a guy with some beliefs. I like to watch movies, but that doesn't mean I'm a member at Blockbuster.
lol, nice. caught me in the middle of an edit/delete. good one.
Thats the thing, that guy from Toronto who suddenly decides, hey, I like the word "Allah" so from now on I'm going to call myself a Muslim.
That does not make him a Muslim, he does not follow the rituals and spiritual laws as passed down in the Qaran. All the other muslims will tell you that he is not only not a true muslim, but that he isnt a muslim at all.
Thats the thing about Christians. The fundamental avengelical christians are almost exactly like that random person claiming to be Muslim. The unfortunate part is there is such a huge denomination of them, that it makes it harder for the mainline religion to denounce. Add to the fact that the Catholic Church with the Pope is the only truly organized religion based on the bible that has a clear head of state that could possibly denounce them. But he cant denounce them as not being Catholic because they dont say they are, and thats the only thing he could really denounce them from being.
Its been a long time since the Catholic Church has declared anyone outright to be heretical for not following the bible. Because they arent declaring anyone heretic, anyone can claim to be a form of Christian, and there will not be anyone to denounce it.
Its true the fundamentalist avengelicals base themselves around the bible, but only loosely. They try their hardest to hate all the right people, but thats only 1/10 of the bible. The rest of the bible is about being generous with both your love, time, and possessions to your fellow man, especially those who have nothing. When is the last time you saw these mega million dollar churches open up another homeless shelter, food bank, etc etc.
MWO: Adamski
don't catholics officially believe it to be a sin?
like, same with birth control?
wtf? bigots are hilarious.
Actually, I quoted you, and changed your post to reflect what you meant, as opposed to what you posted. I didn't notice you edit anything, if you did.
You cannot convert to Judaism, as this implies going straight from one religion to another and even discussing joining Judaism with a member of another faith is considered proselytizing by many rabbis. You have to quit your current religion first, at which point you can start the initiation process (which, I must say, seems designed to weed out those not dedicated enough, from what I've heard of the process).
And, lastly, Muslim, god damn it, Muslim!
Holy shit, you're ignorant!
No.
No.