If I believe that Jesus of Nazareth was the "messiah", but I'm also a deist, it means I'm not a Baptist, or a Methodist, or a Catholic, or a Molokan, because deism is contrary to what all those denominations believe. But, by that belief, I'm still a Christian. The same applies to the belief in God and that Allah was God's prophet, with Islam and its various denominations, and whatever other beliefs and actions a person tacks on to that belief.
Holy shit, you're ignorant! Allah is Arabic for God!
If I believe that Jesus of Nazareth was the "messiah", but I'm also a deist, it means I'm not a Baptist, or a Methodist, or a Catholic, or a Molokan, because deism is contrary to what all those denominations believe. But, by that belief, I'm still a Christian. The same applies to the belief in God and that Mohammed was God's prophet, with Islam and its various denominations, and whatever other beliefs and actions a person tacks on to that belief.
Let me ask a Bible question - some Christians believe that when you die, you ascend to Heaven and are judged by St. Peter or God. But how does Judgment Day work, when YHWH raises most of the dead for judgment? Or is no one judged until a set date and the Looney Toons have lied to me (Daffy is blown up and instantly gets halo and angel wings)?
Church, the main problem with your argument is that you've ignoring the fact that a religion is an organization, with rules and regulations, including an initiation process. Now, you'll agree that there are organizations that perform certain practices, but just because you do too doesn't make you a member. If you play hockey that doesn't automatically make you a member of the Maple Leafs. You can hate black people and not be part of the KKK. You can like movies, a quality found in every member of Blockbusters, and not be a member of Blockbusters.
Church, the main problem with your argument is that you've ignoring the fact that a religion is an organization, with rules and regulations, including an initiation process. Now, you'll agree that there are organizations that perform certain practices, but just because you do too doesn't make you a member. If you play hockey that doesn't automatically make you a member of the Maple Leafs. You can hate black people and not be part of the KKK. You can like movies, a quality found in every member of Blockbusters, and not be a member of Blockbusters.
This is exactly my point.
The Mormon Church is an organisation. The Roman Catholic Church is an organisation. "Christianity" is not an organisation. It's just a belief in the divinity of Jesus of Nazareth and that he is humanity's messiah. Beyond that, you can believe whatever you want and still identify as a Christian. None of those organisations have the right to tell you otherwise. The Roman Catholic Church can say you're not a Catholic. The Mormon Church can say you're not a Mormon. But they can't say, with any authority, that you're not a Christian.
Church, the main problem with your argument is that you've ignoring the fact that a religion is an organization, with rules and regulations, including an initiation process. Now, you'll agree that there are organizations that perform certain practices, but just because you do too doesn't make you a member. If you play hockey that doesn't automatically make you a member of the Maple Leafs. You can hate black people and not be part of the KKK. You can like movies, a quality found in every member of Blockbusters, and not be a member of Blockbusters.
This is exactly my point.
The Mormon Church is an organisation. The Roman Catholic Church is an organisation. "Christianity" is not an organisation. It's just a belief in the divinity of Jesus of Nazareth and that he is humanity's messiah. Beyond that, you can believe whatever you want and still identify as a Christian.
But the bible also has the whole deal with Peter being the rock of Jesus' church (is that actually in the bible? Beats me)
The Catholic part of the Catholic church got cut out but I haven't seen any examples of christianity without some sort of church, which by definition is a religious organization.
Let me ask a Bible question - some Christians believe that when you die, you ascend to Heaven and are judged by St. Peter or God. But how does Judgment Day work, when YHWH raises most of the dead for judgment? Or is no one judged until a set date and the Looney Toons have lied to me (Daffy is blown up and instantly gets halo and angel wings)?
I think St. Peter's consideration of your life and Jesus' ultimate judgment are two different concepts. It has been a long while since I've thought about it, but I think that you go to Heaven if you're good and don't go if you're bad. In Catholicism St. Peter would keep out people in Purgatory until they're ready.
Also Christianity is wherever 'Christians' gather. The church isn't necessary.
edit: Wait no, that's from the Book of Common Prayer...
Does the KKK still consider themselves to be Christian? An NGC documentary implied the Aryan Brotherhood consider themselves Christian though they hate Catholics.
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FencingsaxIt is difficult to get a man to understand, when his salary depends upon his not understandingGNU Terry PratchettRegistered Userregular
Does the KKK still consider themselves to be Christian? An NGC documentary implied the Aryan Brotherhood consider themselves Christian though they hate Catholics.
You don't have to like other sects to be Christian.
Does the KKK still consider themselves to be Christian? An NGC documentary implied the Aryan Brotherhood consider themselves Christian though they hate Catholics.
You don't have to like other sects to be Christian.
In fact, that actually seems to be a requirement, though not as much as Islam (if after a zombie apocalypse the only survivors were two Muslims, they would probably try to kill each other, a conclusion I reached after reading enough to tell that the main conflicts in Muslim countries, no matter how diverse, is always between Muslims).
Does the KKK still consider themselves to be Christian? An NGC documentary implied the Aryan Brotherhood consider themselves Christian though they hate Catholics.
You don't have to like other sects to be Christian.
In fact, that actually seems to be a requirement, though not as much as Islam (if after a zombie apocalypse the only survivors were two Muslims, they would probably try to kill each other, a conclusion I reached after reading enough to tell that the main conflicts in Muslim countries, no matter how diverse, is always between Muslims).
Wow, I gotta admit. I'm rather impressed with such blatant ignorance. :^:
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FencingsaxIt is difficult to get a man to understand, when his salary depends upon his not understandingGNU Terry PratchettRegistered Userregular
Does the KKK still consider themselves to be Christian? An NGC documentary implied the Aryan Brotherhood consider themselves Christian though they hate Catholics.
You don't have to like other sects to be Christian.
In fact, that actually seems to be a requirement, though not as much as Islam (if after a zombie apocalypse the only survivors were two Muslims, they would probably try to kill each other, a conclusion I reached after reading enough to tell that the main conflicts in Muslim countries, no matter how diverse, is always between Muslims).
Wow, I gotta admit. I'm rather impressed with such blatant ignorance. :^:
Well hey, at least he didn't mention anything about the Jewish Ghouls.
Does the KKK still consider themselves to be Christian? An NGC documentary implied the Aryan Brotherhood consider themselves Christian though they hate Catholics.
You don't have to like other sects to be Christian.
In fact, that actually seems to be a requirement, though not as much as Islam (if after a zombie apocalypse the only survivors were two Muslims, they would probably try to kill each other, a conclusion I reached after reading enough to tell that the main conflicts in Muslim countries, no matter how diverse, is always between Muslims).
Wow, I gotta admit. I'm rather impressed with such blatant ignorance. :^:
Well hey, at least he didn't mention anything about the Jewish Ghouls.
Perhaps he meant Muslims of different sects? Otherwise... yeah that conclusion is totally obvious.
Perhaps he meant Muslims of different sects? Otherwise... yeah that conclusion is totally obvious.
That doesn't change anything. But he did thoroughly demonstrate that conservatives aren't the only ones that can be muslimphobes. That's actually rather depressing...
I was born and raised republican/Lutheran. Now however; I consider myself a follower of the Buddha Dharma. (Buddhist for the uninformed). I am sure that if I went to South East Asia, I would find many people who would not consider me a Buddhist.
The reason I consider myself a Buddhist, is, I read the Buddhist books, that I can gain access to. I assess what I read in them, take what I believe to be true, and meaningful, and try to live my life in such a way, that I believe is positively influenced by the texts and teachings I read. I however, I am not willing to, at this point at least, give up everything I know and love, to pursue the path of the Buddha. I realize that by doing so, I am forsaking myself to many more lives of suffering. Which I am fine with. The underlying goal of a Buddhist, is to not only, relieve complete suffering of themselves, but to teach all mankind how relieve their suffering as well, so we may all enter nirvana, and end our cycle of suffering. To do this you must attain enlightenment, then you must decide if you will stay and teach, as The Conquerer Buddha did, or enter into Nirvana yourself, and forsake those who are unlearned. Which seems to contradict the point of the philosophy, IMO anyway.
I am still young in my learning of the Dharma, but I'm always looking for more.
So, while I am not going for the absolute realization of the faith, I believe that what I am doing, is appropriate and allows me to consider myself a Buddhist.
I think this is much like what Church is saying, if you believe you are what you are, then you are. If you practice what you believe to be, the belief, then who can tell you that your belief is wrong? As for the guy in Toronto, being the queen of England. You are obviously wrong, simply because you haven't offered us biscuits and tea yet.
You could easily replace my story with the same thing, for any religious belief, even FSM.
In addition to being a Buddhist, I am also a rune crafter. As in, I create runes, that are similar to what my Nordic ancestors did. I don't believe they have any power at all. I do it, to honor where I came from, and to try and help me understand more about them, their way of life, and why they did what they did. I have however met, people who, I presume got started in rune crafting themselves the same as I did, and now devote their religious beliefs to the old gods, and truly believe their runes hold special powers. I don't look down on them, and can see, that they must have found some connection with themselves, and what was believed in the past. Which in my eyes, is no different than believing in an endless cycle of suffering, a miracle child, sent to save the world, arranging your furniture in a certain way, or any other belief. Because that's pretty much what beliefs are, they are there inside you, for some reason; that you hold to be true, but can not prove to others to be such. Their yours, and may be shared by many others, but everyones is a little different.
Saying Phelps isn't a Christian is easy, because he's a radical. Don't you think there are Moslem's who don't want to believe their radical murderous counterparts are not of their faith? Well sure, but they're there, they believe what they do, and you'll never change it.
My two american cents, which is apparently worth shit now.. WTT .02USD for .02EUR
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Whether they find a life there or not, I think Jupiter should be called an enemy planet.
Al-Andalus had many Jews, Christians, and probably Illuminati and Shinto Buddhists, but the very first conflict was between two Muslim groups. My statement was a massive exaggeration for comic effect, but it does seem Muslims would prefer fighting each other than fighting anybody else.
When you've got a countless number of people who all claim to be Christian, not only that, but claim to be of the same sub-sect or whatever of Christianity and their beliefs are still radically different from each other. You've got a serious problem. In such an environment is what breeds extremists.
To me it just points to the failure of organized religion..at least as we know it now. Sure you're still going to have your local churches, but shit, there are still petty little squabbles within those smaller circles over how to worship. It just pisses me off because just like in politics, I believe there is this silent moderate majority of people who do have faith in a god of some sort, but don't allow it to override common sense and rational thought and I wish they would be a bit more vocal and take back the churches and restore at least a bit of sanity and remind people that church is supposed to be helping your fellow man, not advancing your political influence upon the world.
That sound like the decline of Judaism in Babylon, where the secular and religious leadership of the Jewish communities became rivals for the most influence.
When you've got a countless number of people who all claim to be Christian, not only that, but claim to be of the same sub-sect or whatever of Christianity and their beliefs are still radically different from each other. You've got a serious problem. In such an environment is what breeds extremists.
To me it just points to the failure of organized religion..at least as we know it now. Sure you're still going to have your local churches, but shit, there are still petty little squabbles within those smaller circles over how to worship. It just pisses me off because just like in politics, I believe there is this silent moderate majority of people who do have faith in a god of some sort, but don't allow it to override common sense and rational thought and I wish they would be a bit more vocal and take back the churches and restore at least a bit of sanity and remind people that church is supposed to be helping your fellow man, not advancing your political influence upon the world.
Because the masses don't pay attention to moderates. Radicals are more "fun" to watch and read about. You really overestimate the extremism in Christianity. The number of extreme Churches in the US is so minor its laughable. But what do you think will pull in more ratings for the evening news? The fact that the sixth graders at my Catholic parish take a yearly field trip to a local synagogue to improve Jewish-Catholic relations (true story for most of the diocese of Buffalo), or Westboro baptist church protesting another soldier funeral?
I don't really understand what threat the gays are meant to pose, according to the Bible. Is it just that it says homosexuality is wrong with no explanation as to why?
I don't really understand what threat the gays are meant to pose, according to the Bible. Is it just that it says homosexuality is wrong with no explanation as to why?
Sex in the name of personal pleasure is generally frowned upon, regardless of who its between. Its seen as a form of selfishness, and downright abuse of your partner and yourself. Thats the short explanation anyways.
I don't really understand what threat the gays are meant to pose, according to the Bible. Is it just that it says homosexuality is wrong with no explanation as to why?
As I understand it, it's a "postulate", if you will, of morality. Just like death and sickness are just given as bad things, according to the Bible, anything involving sexual stimulation that isn't a married man and woman having unprotected sex in the missionary position is bad.
I don't really understand what threat the gays are meant to pose, according to the Bible. Is it just that it says homosexuality is wrong with no explanation as to why?
Sex in the name of personal pleasure is generally frowned upon, regardless of who its between. Its seen as a form of selfishness, and downright abuse of your partner and yourself. Thats the short explanation anyways.
But why single out homosexuals? Surely the number of people who, either by age or some personal problem, are unable to produce offspring through intercourse outnumber the small percentage of the population that's having gay sex? Wouldn't they be the group most worthy of condemnation being both the largest group and a group we are all in danger of joining one day?
I don't really understand what threat the gays are meant to pose, according to the Bible. Is it just that it says homosexuality is wrong with no explanation as to why?
Sex in the name of personal pleasure is generally frowned upon, regardless of who its between. Its seen as a form of selfishness, and downright abuse of your partner and yourself. Thats the short explanation anyways.
But why single out homosexuals? Surely the number of people who, either by age or some personal problem, are unable to produce offspring through intercourse outnumber the small percentage of the population that's having gay sex? Wouldn't they be the group most worthy of condemnation being both the largest group and a group we are all in danger of joining one day?
No it doesn't make sense since making love to your spouse is a mitzvot not just for reason of procreation.
I don't really understand what threat the gays are meant to pose, according to the Bible. Is it just that it says homosexuality is wrong with no explanation as to why?
Sex in the name of personal pleasure is generally frowned upon, regardless of who its between. Its seen as a form of selfishness, and downright abuse of your partner and yourself. Thats the short explanation anyways.
But why single out homosexuals? Surely the number of people who, either by age or some personal problem, are unable to produce offspring through intercourse outnumber the small percentage of the population that's having gay sex? Wouldn't they be the group most worthy of condemnation being both the largest group and a group we are all in danger of joining one day?
No it doesn't make sense since making love to your spouse is a mitzvot not just for reason of procreation.
But that doesn't apply to homosexuals because they can't get married, and even if they could their marriages would only be recognized by the government and not by the various religions that oppose homosexuality? But then why can't homosexuals marry each other?
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Holy shit, you're ignorant! Allah is Arabic for God!
No.
...What did I say that contradicted any of that?
Edit: Oh, shit. My thought was completely ahead of my fingers. That was just a mis-type.
In case you missed my edit: I know that.
This is exactly my point.
The Mormon Church is an organisation. The Roman Catholic Church is an organisation. "Christianity" is not an organisation. It's just a belief in the divinity of Jesus of Nazareth and that he is humanity's messiah. Beyond that, you can believe whatever you want and still identify as a Christian. None of those organisations have the right to tell you otherwise. The Roman Catholic Church can say you're not a Catholic. The Mormon Church can say you're not a Mormon. But they can't say, with any authority, that you're not a Christian.
But the bible also has the whole deal with Peter being the rock of Jesus' church (is that actually in the bible? Beats me)
The Catholic part of the Catholic church got cut out but I haven't seen any examples of christianity without some sort of church, which by definition is a religious organization.
Edit: Here's an example, Picard. The Molokan faith. Molokans don't believe that organisation or even cathedrals are necessary.
I know!
Also, what?
Also Christianity is wherever 'Christians' gather. The church isn't necessary.
edit: Wait no, that's from the Book of Common Prayer...
We posted at the same time. See my edit.
Feel free to re edit that first line.
In fact, that actually seems to be a requirement, though not as much as Islam (if after a zombie apocalypse the only survivors were two Muslims, they would probably try to kill each other, a conclusion I reached after reading enough to tell that the main conflicts in Muslim countries, no matter how diverse, is always between Muslims).
Wow, I gotta admit. I'm rather impressed with such blatant ignorance. :^:
Perhaps he meant Muslims of different sects? Otherwise... yeah that conclusion is totally obvious.
That doesn't change anything. But he did thoroughly demonstrate that conservatives aren't the only ones that can be muslimphobes. That's actually rather depressing...
The reason I consider myself a Buddhist, is, I read the Buddhist books, that I can gain access to. I assess what I read in them, take what I believe to be true, and meaningful, and try to live my life in such a way, that I believe is positively influenced by the texts and teachings I read. I however, I am not willing to, at this point at least, give up everything I know and love, to pursue the path of the Buddha. I realize that by doing so, I am forsaking myself to many more lives of suffering. Which I am fine with. The underlying goal of a Buddhist, is to not only, relieve complete suffering of themselves, but to teach all mankind how relieve their suffering as well, so we may all enter nirvana, and end our cycle of suffering. To do this you must attain enlightenment, then you must decide if you will stay and teach, as The Conquerer Buddha did, or enter into Nirvana yourself, and forsake those who are unlearned. Which seems to contradict the point of the philosophy, IMO anyway.
I am still young in my learning of the Dharma, but I'm always looking for more.
So, while I am not going for the absolute realization of the faith, I believe that what I am doing, is appropriate and allows me to consider myself a Buddhist.
I think this is much like what Church is saying, if you believe you are what you are, then you are. If you practice what you believe to be, the belief, then who can tell you that your belief is wrong? As for the guy in Toronto, being the queen of England. You are obviously wrong, simply because you haven't offered us biscuits and tea yet.
You could easily replace my story with the same thing, for any religious belief, even FSM.
In addition to being a Buddhist, I am also a rune crafter. As in, I create runes, that are similar to what my Nordic ancestors did. I don't believe they have any power at all. I do it, to honor where I came from, and to try and help me understand more about them, their way of life, and why they did what they did. I have however met, people who, I presume got started in rune crafting themselves the same as I did, and now devote their religious beliefs to the old gods, and truly believe their runes hold special powers. I don't look down on them, and can see, that they must have found some connection with themselves, and what was believed in the past. Which in my eyes, is no different than believing in an endless cycle of suffering, a miracle child, sent to save the world, arranging your furniture in a certain way, or any other belief. Because that's pretty much what beliefs are, they are there inside you, for some reason; that you hold to be true, but can not prove to others to be such. Their yours, and may be shared by many others, but everyones is a little different.
Saying Phelps isn't a Christian is easy, because he's a radical. Don't you think there are Moslem's who don't want to believe their radical murderous counterparts are not of their faith? Well sure, but they're there, they believe what they do, and you'll never change it.
My two american cents, which is apparently worth shit now.. WTT .02USD for .02EUR
To me it just points to the failure of organized religion..at least as we know it now. Sure you're still going to have your local churches, but shit, there are still petty little squabbles within those smaller circles over how to worship. It just pisses me off because just like in politics, I believe there is this silent moderate majority of people who do have faith in a god of some sort, but don't allow it to override common sense and rational thought and I wish they would be a bit more vocal and take back the churches and restore at least a bit of sanity and remind people that church is supposed to be helping your fellow man, not advancing your political influence upon the world.
Enlist in Star Citizen! Citizenship must be earned!
Because the masses don't pay attention to moderates. Radicals are more "fun" to watch and read about. You really overestimate the extremism in Christianity. The number of extreme Churches in the US is so minor its laughable. But what do you think will pull in more ratings for the evening news? The fact that the sixth graders at my Catholic parish take a yearly field trip to a local synagogue to improve Jewish-Catholic relations (true story for most of the diocese of Buffalo), or Westboro baptist church protesting another soldier funeral?
Sex in the name of personal pleasure is generally frowned upon, regardless of who its between. Its seen as a form of selfishness, and downright abuse of your partner and yourself. Thats the short explanation anyways.
As I understand it, it's a "postulate", if you will, of morality. Just like death and sickness are just given as bad things, according to the Bible, anything involving sexual stimulation that isn't a married man and woman having unprotected sex in the missionary position is bad.
But why single out homosexuals? Surely the number of people who, either by age or some personal problem, are unable to produce offspring through intercourse outnumber the small percentage of the population that's having gay sex? Wouldn't they be the group most worthy of condemnation being both the largest group and a group we are all in danger of joining one day?
No it doesn't make sense since making love to your spouse is a mitzvot not just for reason of procreation.
But that doesn't apply to homosexuals because they can't get married, and even if they could their marriages would only be recognized by the government and not by the various religions that oppose homosexuality? But then why can't homosexuals marry each other?
Ahhhh