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Nebsis - Non-3D Junk! (Page 5)

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    DE?ADDE?AD Registered User regular
    edited April 2008
    Out of your four renders of that image, the bottom left has the most visual impact, and reads the most clearly.

    Okay, then, it looks like I've found the problem. Good news is, it was entirely my fault - in an effort to create a washed-out look, I stuck a plane of transparent white material in front of the camera. The only difference between the above render and the others, was that I shot without the "lens" on that time.
    I usually prefer a low saturation palette, Seth Fisher's work being a prime example. However, in a full render like you have, it is hard to get the contrast you need while doing so.

    Good point. (Also, low-saturation was the term I was looking for earlier when I said washed-out. My art-vocabulary is seriously lacking.)
    Your stuff is definitely looking better. Have I previously mentioned that it reminds me of the Out of This World / Heart of the Alien game series? Especially back when you rendered in a flat, cell-shaded manner.

    Thanks, and I don't think you have... or you did and I've forgotten. Either way, I'll certainly take that as a complement.

    New Stuff:
    5-5.png
    5-6.png

    DE?AD on
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    devicesdevices Registered User regular
    edited April 2008
    DE?AD wrote: »
    devices wrote: »
    i love these so far, really interesting storyline...

    something i've been thinking about though, did the elements go missing only from their planet? or were they gone from their universe?

    i figured it was the former, considering the presence of a burning sun... i've just been curious :)

    thanks, and keep them coming!

    Thanks. Actually, the elements are missing from the universe entirely. If you'll notice, I've never actually shown the Senti sun - this is because there isn't one. The planet is orbited by a small glowing moon. There are no stars in the Senti sky at night, and the "starlight" is actually provided by luminescent dust in the atmosphere.

    well that's awesome, thanks :D

    devices on
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    DE?ADDE?AD Registered User regular
    edited June 2008
    Well, it's been a while, and the new issue of RedMask has started, so I figured I'd drop in with an update.

    Designing covers is hard.
    6-C.png

    I took ManonvonSuperock's advice and I've tried to spice up the saturation a bit - I've removed the white-out sheet from in front of the lens (I actually changed this around page 17 of the last issue, and I'd say the difference is fairly noticeable.)

    6-1.png

    Unfortunately, I've been rather busy as of late, so I don't have an awful lot of new stuff to show. Still, any advise or criticisms would be welcome.

    DE?AD on
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    AldoAldo Hippo Hooray Registered User regular
    edited June 2008
    Make the speech bubble in that last frame twice as big. The guy is ANGRY, he is YELLING, he is stuck in a desert with two CRAZY JOKERS.

    Aldo on
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    Endless_SerpentsEndless_Serpents Registered User regular
    edited June 2008
    This is great! Fantastic in fact! But I agree with Aldo about that panel.

    Endless_Serpents on
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    AllanAllan Registered User regular
    edited June 2008
    I don't even need to read this thread.

    It has my name in it, and therefore I approve.

    Allan on
    banndd1av6.gifbannerdd2or5.gif
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    ZombiemamboZombiemambo Registered User regular
    edited June 2008
    The last two images you posted have an excellent balance of contrast and saturation. It still looks a bit desaturated, but the color is readable so it doesn't feel lifeless. It's much, much better than your earlier stuff.

    Zombiemambo on
    JKKaAGp.png
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    DE?ADDE?AD Registered User regular
    edited June 2008
    Aldo wrote: »
    Make the speech bubble in that last frame twice as big. The guy is ANGRY, he is YELLING, he is stuck in a desert with two CRAZY JOKERS.
    This is great! Fantastic in fact! But I agree with Aldo about that panel.

    Noted. Unfortunately, however, do to the way I update the comic, by the time I post a page in this thread it's already gone live on the website. This makes corrections tricky. Mainly, I use the advice I get here (which is always helpful) for future pages, with the overall hope that the comic will improve as it goes on.
    Allan wrote: »
    I don't even need to read this thread.

    It has my name in it, and therefore I approve.

    Git outta mah thread, y'gull durn kid!

    Rassun-phrassun kids, with their talent, and their popular, neatly designed websites, and their loud music...

    The last two images you posted have an excellent balance of contrast and saturation. It still looks a bit desaturated, but the color is readable so it doesn't feel lifeless. It's much, much better than your earlier stuff.

    Thanks, good to know.


    New Page:

    6-2.png

    DE?AD on
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    IrukaIruka Registered User, Moderator Mod Emeritus
    edited June 2008
    Oh... They're moving. I didnt realize they were supposed to be in a moving car. I realize they have no hair you can throw back, but you may want to make a kick up of dust thats kinda obvious. I thought they were static the last two pages.

    Iruka on
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    DE?ADDE?AD Registered User regular
    edited June 2008
    Yeah, movement is a really big issue with the comic. I've pretty much been fighting with that particular iisue since the first few pages - it's just really hard to convey motion with 3D renders. About the best I can mange usually is a few motion lines here and there, but I sorta skimped on that in these last few pages.

    I did actually add a dust cloud behind them, it's just not very noticeable. You can see it in establishing shot on page one.


    I've been too busy to really respond this past week, but I did try to make the dust cloud a bit more visible in the next two pages:

    6-3.png
    6-4.png

    Hopefully that helped some.

    DE?AD on
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    Grim OutlookGrim Outlook Registered User regular
    edited June 2008
    you should put a little flag or something somewhere on the car so when they're driving it blows in the wind.

    or maybe make everyone wear a cape.

    Grim Outlook on
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    DE?ADDE?AD Registered User regular
    edited July 2008
    you should put a little flag or something somewhere on the car so when they're driving it blows in the wind.

    or maybe make everyone wear a cape.

    That's another bit where the setting bites me in the ass - nothing is really flexible besides the characters bodies. Inorganic material does not bend, and organic material decays too quickly to be made into clothing.

    Yes, I realize it has been far too long to actually respond that.


    Anyway, new stuff:

    I recently introduced a new character in the strip, and to emphasize the fact that she is very much like the main character, I paralleled her introductory pages with Ab's introduction in the first issue.

    I think it turned out fairly well.
    6-5.png1-1.png
    6-7.png1-2.png

    I'm also trying something new to fix the movement problem, as you can sort of see in one of the above pages, when Ve jumps over the back of the couch. Rather than going with the traditional "swoop trails" I've been using, I'm experimenting with dotted lines. They don't see a lot of use, but I think they sort of work with the comic's already awkward art. Plus, they're incredibly unambiguous, and with a bit of variation can help to describe an objects specific speed as well as path of movement.

    The new models are working very well, in my opinion, as I've been able to get some (as far as I can tell) very natural-looking poses out of them. Especially in these three pages:
    6-9.png
    6-10.png
    6-11.png

    (Page ten was a bit of an experiment itself, containing the most panels I have ever done for single RedMask page.)

    Again, do to my update schedule, the pages above are kind of stuck the way they are, but any critiques or comments are appreciated, as they will be taken into consideration for future pages.

    DE?AD on
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    Synthetic OrangeSynthetic Orange Registered User regular
    edited July 2008
    You're getting serious squishing around the elbows, knees and wrists on Ve in the last page there. Actually they're on all the characters, but it's most noticable because she's so spindly. A little less spread on the rig envelopes should fix em up.

    Synthetic Orange on
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    DE?ADDE?AD Registered User regular
    edited July 2008
    Thank you. That's actually something I've been struggling with since day one, and I couldn't find anything on how to fix it.

    DE?AD on
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    Synthetic OrangeSynthetic Orange Registered User regular
    edited July 2008
    You're basically looking for skinning/rigging info if you want to learn more about that.

    Synthetic Orange on
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    Synthetic OrangeSynthetic Orange Registered User regular
    edited July 2008
    Needed to get something done today, so why not.

    redmask.png

    Synthetic Orange on
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    DE?ADDE?AD Registered User regular
    edited July 2008
    Oh god that is fantastic. Mind if I throw that up on the site? I desperately need something to put on the extras page.

    DE?AD on
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    Synthetic OrangeSynthetic Orange Registered User regular
    edited July 2008
    It's only a WIP at the moment, but who knows when I'll actually finish it. Go on!

    Synthetic Orange on
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    DE?ADDE?AD Registered User regular
    edited July 2008
    I'll put it up with the Friday update.

    Just a quick update before I collapse from sleep deprivation - Thank you again, Synth, as you've helped me to solve one of the major problems bugging me with the models. Of course now I have to go an update all the civilian/ancillary character models, but there you go...

    The most recent page:
    6-13.png
    Note the new and improved joints in panels three and five.

    DE?AD on
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    Synthetic OrangeSynthetic Orange Registered User regular
    edited July 2008
    Looks good. You might need to hand paint the weights along the outside elbow so that it's a more abrupt transition, but it looks like you're on the right track.

    Synthetic Orange on
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    DE?ADDE?AD Registered User regular
    edited July 2008
    Thanks. I do actually hand paint all of the models - I've found envelopes to be largely useless. I'll see if I can't touch up the elbows a bit, though.

    DE?AD on
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    ManonvonSuperockManonvonSuperock Registered User regular
    edited July 2008
    Image 6-11.png looks fucking great. The best lighting you've had so far. Your recent outdoor scenes were really washed out, but that looks excellent. well done.

    ManonvonSuperock on
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    DE?ADDE?AD Registered User regular
    edited July 2008
    Thanks, ManonvonSuperock. I think I'm actually starting to get the handle on lighting. Indoor lighting, at least.

    Out of curiosity, how do you feel about the most recent outdoor scene on page twelve?
    6-12.png

    (As an aside I think I may need to tone down Major Tolm's vader-speech. It's a tad large.)

    DE?AD on
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    ZombiemamboZombiemambo Registered User regular
    edited July 2008
    I think you've found a good balance of saturation, you got the look you desired without everything looking uninteresting.

    As for the text, his might be a tad big, but the rest is really small. Unless these pages are normally bigger I'd increase the size of the text.

    Zombiemambo on
    JKKaAGp.png
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    ManonvonSuperockManonvonSuperock Registered User regular
    edited July 2008
    DE?AD wrote: »
    Thanks, ManonvonSuperock. I think I'm actually starting to get the handle on lighting. Indoor lighting, at least.

    Out of curiosity, how do you feel about the most recent outdoor scene on page twelve?
    6-12.png

    It looks much better, here's some more specifics presented in a crude animated gif:
    animatedredmask.gif

    note: that line should read "subtle differences in lighting..."

    also, your background behind the panels is a gradient from top to bottom; grey to tan.

    usually, when composing something that you'd want to put the lighter value up top with the darker value at the bottom.

    ManonvonSuperock on
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    AldoAldo Hippo Hooray Registered User regular
    edited July 2008
    That "dark grey sky" is the obelisk you also see in the last frame, Manon. Everything else makes sense.

    Aldo on
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    ManonvonSuperockManonvonSuperock Registered User regular
    edited July 2008
    ah. makes sense now.

    ManonvonSuperock on
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    DE?ADDE?AD Registered User regular
    edited July 2008
    Very helpful, Manonvon. Yeah, the "gray sky" is in fact the city wall. The whole matter was probably confused by the beige-to-gray gradient outside the panels. I wish I had thought to extend the outdoor panel like that.

    Oh, and about the mismatched values between the terrain and the gray wall - see, Blender doesn't actually have a reliable way of creating an "atmosphere effect," so I have to do it by hand. Luckily, I found that if you adjust the alpha value of an object without making it transparent, it causes the sky texture to be overlaid on top of the object. So all the mountains in the background are actually fairly small, low-alpha value, objects just behind the main build area.

    Newest page, another outdoor scene:
    6-15.png

    DE?AD on
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    DE?ADDE?AD Registered User regular
    edited August 2008
    Finally got around to doing some more work on Nebsis - I've been meaning to for a while, but I just haven't had the time until recently.

    Anyway, here's page 5 of Nebsis:
    N5.png

    Unlike RedMask, these are in no way finished products, and I'm trying to be a bit more experimental with each page.

    Any opinions?

    DE?AD on
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    cptjackcptjack Registered User new member
    edited August 2008
    Very nice!

    cptjack on
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    DE?ADDE?AD Registered User regular
    edited August 2008
    Thanks, cptjack.

    DE?AD on
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    Synthetic OrangeSynthetic Orange Registered User regular
    edited August 2008
    So something's been bugging me a little.

    How does he avoid tipping over? (Relevant part at 1:00)

    Synthetic Orange on
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    DE?ADDE?AD Registered User regular
    edited August 2008
    That was wonderful.

    As for your question, the answer is - he rarely stands up straight and he keeps the largest portion of his body centered over his tiny centaur-section. Of course, the minute he actively stops balancing...
    6-22.png

    DE?AD on
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    DE?ADDE?AD Registered User regular
    edited August 2008
    Well, do to my continual dissatisfaction with the look of the Nebsis stuff, I've decided to try something entirely different.

    So, I need opinions. Which do you prefer, the current 3D-trying-not-to-be-3D thing or the new
    Nebsis-1.png

    2D-trying-exceptionally-hard-to-be-2D thing?

    [Note: The above image is not meant to be an actual, comprehensible page - it's just a bunch of random panel-shaped doodles.]

    DE?AD on
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    AldoAldo Hippo Hooray Registered User regular
    edited August 2008
    Both styles look very nice imo. I personally prefer the 3D style because it allows for more flexibility and it makes for easier recognizable characters. The 2D style depends heavily on use of colours and size to recognize different characters.

    Aldo on
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    DE?ADDE?AD Registered User regular
    edited August 2008
    Thanks, Aldo.

    One thing to note in the consideration - Both versions rely almost entirely on color to differentiate between characters. The 3D version, in fact, relies entirely on it, as all of the characters use the exact same model.

    (One of the big bits of the setting is that there are only about two hundred souls in existence, each of which has a distinct color. The lines of color on the black humanoids in the above page are a physical display of which soul is currently animating them.)

    DE?AD on
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    AldoAldo Hippo Hooray Registered User regular
    edited August 2008
    DE?AD wrote: »
    Thanks, Aldo.

    One thing to note in the consideration - Both versions rely almost entirely on color to differentiate between characters. The 3D version, in fact, relies entirely on it, as all of the characters use the exact same model.

    (One of the big bits of the setting is that there are only about two hundred souls in existence, each of which has a distinct color. The lines of color on the black humanoids in the above page are a physical display of which soul is currently animating them.)
    Oh crud, I'm slow.

    Never mind me.

    Aldo on
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    EdmanEdman Registered User regular
    edited August 2008
    Personally I really am liking the 3-D stuff. The 2-D stuff looks like it could have been done by anyone, but the 3-D is unmistakably yours. That, and I really like your models. (and the grain filter on everything)

    With the whole color thing, how many characters do you plan on having a large role in the story? I know anything past, I dunno, sixteen or so and I would start to confuse them.

    On a different note, is the exact number of souls 256? And are they each a web-safe color?

    Edman on
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    DE?ADDE?AD Registered User regular
    edited August 2008
    Aldo wrote: »
    Oh crud, I'm slow.

    Never mind me.

    It really is my own damn fault. I need to stop making comics which require setting fore-knowledge to explain the art.
    Personally I really am liking the 3-D stuff. The 2-D stuff looks like it could have been done by anyone, but the 3-D is unmistakably yours. That, and I really like your models. (and the grain filter on everything)

    Thanks, edman. Yeah, the 2D stuff is certainly a lot more... generic. I'm just worried the 3D might be a bit off-putting. This is important because, the joy of artistic expression for its own sake aside, stories don't mean a whole lot unless someone is reading them, and I'd hate to think I'm losing readers because I stuck with the 3D.
    With the whole color thing, how many characters do you plan on having a large role in the story? I know anything past, I dunno, sixteen or so and I would start to confuse them.

    The main cast has about four characters. The others are all just for background or brief appearances.
    On a different note, is the exact number of souls 256? And are they each a web-safe color?

    They are now.

    Seriously, that's brilliant and I wish I'd thought of that before.

    DE?AD on
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    EdmanEdman Registered User regular
    edited August 2008
    No problem - I do what I can. 8-)

    Edman on
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