Happy: Hydross down on our 5th attempt. We had some problems with the phase transition and one attempt that was going well in terms of transitions but that we hadn't been doing enough dps to beat the enrage timer.
EDIT2 HATE!3: Also, I'm /gbanned and it's technically a guild raid (about 90%) so they don't have a raid chat channel (not /raid, /ourraid or whatever), they just use /gchat. So I don't even get to participate in the discussions.
EDIT2 HATE!3: Also, I'm /gbanned and it's technically a guild raid (about 90%) so they don't have a raid chat channel (not /raid, /ourraid or whatever), they just use /gchat. So I don't even get to participate in the discussions.
I'm not in the guild. I left because of a spit arising from some drama, and I was banned from returning because certain tenets of my person were causing drama at the mere mention of my name while I was not even in the guild. They were looking to /gkick me, but I wasn't even there. So ... there are more immature people unwilling to be courteous than there are of me. I bit the bullet and left, but it's not all so bad. A few other people left with me on principle -- though we all went to separate guilds, not the same one.
Anyway, the DKP system fails in my eyes because the previous system I used was a bidding system. Because it was a bid system, there were no guarantees of loot for the minimum value every time. With the values as they presently are, it punishes you to the point where a single absence can't be recovered from unless everyone else is absent once as well. Until I missed the two bosses today, I had 100% attendance -- but missing two bosses has not pushed me out of one piece of loot, but seemingly three.
EDIT: Admittedly, I'm just sort of bitter that a month and a half of perfect attendance and hard work was marred so thoroughly by an emergency doctor's appointment.
EDIT 2: After some further scouring, our raid leader has been giving undocumented double DKP for first kills. Because of this, it's a miracle that someone dropped before the Morogrim kill because missing that would have pushed me a full and complete rotation back again in the loot queue. It's a non-bid system and a single boss is worth 40% of an item (25% for T5 tokens/weapons); that seems to be too little when you have a raid that is now killing a minimum of three bosses a night when bonuses are taken into consideration, and the fact that it's a non-bid, flat, minimum purchase-price system.
Hey sorry I just don't really like a system where when I miss one partial night where only two bosses are killed, someone can take a piece of loot and still remain incontrovertibly and inalterably ahead of me in the queue. That's incredibly punishing. Unless we prove unable to clear our farm content, the raid leader is awarding so much DKP that -- because everything is bought for its minimum value -- someone who takes a non-tier piece still has a net gain of 10DKP. Inalterably. That's how it works. There's no contention, no bidding, no drainage of points from the system. Someone who misses three hours of farm content does not fall one item behind, but two.
If I missed one full night of their doing farm content -- or tonight, where the person who took Talon was actually revealed to me just now to also have received a ring (only 125DKP, so he had the net gain of 10 aforementioned to push him ahead of me again before they even reached Morogrim) on that run.
Well, you can look at it this way, assuming you have perfect attendance in the future. You'll get the next talon/t5 token uncontested, just as you would have if you had maximum dkp and you had lost the roll today, and next time the other item drops you won't have the opportunity to roll on it, as if you had the max dkp, but the other person has that item already, so they won't have to roll on it, and therefore you're only automatically behind one place in the loot distribution. Provided some fury warrior or someone else doesn't have more DKP than you for the t5 shoulders.
Tentatively exciting: We have a roughly kara-sized group who are considering realm transferring to join us! A friend of mine pointed out a plea for a guild wanting to progress in 25-mans but were having trouble getting dedicated people to join up to theirs. I've made initial contact and it sounds like they pretty much have the same mindset as us; about half of them are classes we need and the other half are classes we can still arguably make use of.
Downside is taking on eight people at once is going to be a pretty big upheaval, and we're going to have to do some negotiation and bending of rules (One of them is an early 60s shadow priest, and we're officially "70's only!" - but we do very badly need shadow priests, and it sounds like he's not dawdling at the levelling process). One thing I'm not sure they've considered is the extra commitment involved in changing from a PvP realm (Magtheridon-EU) to a PvE one (Aggramar-EU), given it's a 'no going back' thing; so that's the next bit I guess I've got to cover with them.
Dunno if it'll get anywhere, given that there's quite a few caveats on top, but early signs look promising.
Mildly obnoxious: Given that they'd be making a big commitment to do this, I'm having to be quite frank about our guild's skill and organisation. We're doing well enough to be pitched at the right level for them (early T5 content), but we always sound so *unprofessional* when I outline how we work. I'm going for being disarmingly honest, so I'm hoping that works out.
Very obnoxious: Our 'official' MT has only turned up for three raids so far this year. I suspect it's a case of post-holiday burnout and unwillingness to come back. We've no shortage of tanks in the guild, so from a well-geared character point of view, it's not a massive loss, but it does mean we're losing experience in the front lines. I've taken over the MT role now, and I'm adequate enough but I'd be the first to admit that I'm more than a bit rough around the edges; sometimes I'll do a shaky pull, sometimes I'll lose focus in a bossfight (I was traditionally raidleader, and I've only just started delegating that responsibility - which helped immensely for my general focus things - but some habits are hard to break). In the event that he doesn't return I ought to pull my finger out and throw together the nature res set I've been stockpiling for for the Hydross fight.
Happy: I'm starting to give people DPS targets, to hopefully iron out situations where people aren't pulling their weight; trying to encourage working towards a goal without risking the danger of "THOU SHALT PWN THY METRES". 14/16 DPSers in The Eye yesterday surpassed the starter target of 650DPS; the top end were well over 1k (but, well, AoEfest). One who didn't make it was a lock who missed all the AoE content so his DPS information shouldn't be considered on the same terms as those who were around for it. The other, though, probably needs A Word. Wondering if I can push the target up to 700DPS. Slightly chuffed that I managed a pretty respectable 290DPS. Also: Tons of plans (4, IIRC), including the hunter belt which I know our leading hunter has been wanting for a long time. It's dropped once for us before... in a raid with no leatherworker. Which also had another leather belt plan drop. Still no Belt of the Guardian, though.
Just Plain Weird: One of our healing shamans has vanished. I'm not talking about "Not turning up lately", I'm talking completely and utterly vanished. They're no longer in the guild, they're not showing up on armory. I can friend them, which implies their name is still in the server database in *some* respect, but they're just not around and have said nary a word on the guild forums. Is this something I can ask the GMs about? It's not my character, but they are a significant member of the guild, and with no contact information the only thing I can think might work is if a GM could tell me at least what's happened to the character or the account, even if they're unable to give any information about where they are now.
Confusion: Moonkins. What should they be allowed to bid on? I'm very well aware that moonkin itemisation in Kara is utterly abysmal, so we'll freely allow spell damage cloth in there - but how do we judge things after Kara, does the itemisation pick up, or should they always be given options on cloth? I spent some time (and a minor diplomatic incident) in the raid yesterday trying to work out if a moonkin should get rights on Solarian's leg drop. In the end it helped that someone else had DKP priority, so it became a nonissue, but it's something I could do with finding out for the next time.
Pretty much Irony is wearing mostly cloth now. In a few days he'll have Spellstrike Hood/Pants (cloth). Badge Shoulders (Leather), cloth boots, cloth bracers, leather gloves, a cloth robe (hopefully replaced with t4 chest) etc.
You're basically a caster who can wear two types of armor as opposed to one, so wear whatever gives you the best stat bonuses.
love: went to karazhan tonight. cleared it in a little over 2 hours. new bracers, new trinkey, new ring, new boots, new belt.
How do you clear kara in 2 hours....
Does a full clear == Everything? (ie. Nightbane, Netherspite, Illhoof)??
What kind of gear are you guys in that you can accomplish this?
I hear people say stuff like this all the time, full clears in 2- 4 hours and I just can't believe it. I used to run with a guild that I felt was very experienced and well geared (kara gear with a mix of some of the early 25 man stuff)... and we never even approached that kind of speed, and it's not like we wiped or dawdled.. we moved pretty damn quickly..
ps. I'm not trying to imply that you're a liar.. I'm just amazed is all.
mfc144 on
0
ClaymanDon't be a baked potato. Be a person.Registered Userregular
edited January 2008
We clear Karazhan in three hours (all bosses) and we're currently progressing in ssc. It's all about chainpulling trash and spending as little time as possible on looting.
Two hours seems pretty unreasonable to me, but I've done a complete clear in a little under four hours.
This was back when 2.3 came out and we were all farming badges on our mains, so we'd take 10 people in SSC/TK gear and just blow through it. You can do the trash really quickly if you chain pull and skip everything you can. Having a prot paladin helps as well; there are some pulls that can just be aoe'd.
Eat it You Nasty Pig. on
hold your head high soldier, it ain't over yet
that's why we call it the struggle, you're supposed to sweat
Well last night we did everything but Netherspite(and with several new people to him, wiped on our one attempt which could have been a victory) in 3.5 hours. 20, maybe 30 minutes of that was swapping people in, and going afk. So my same group probably could have done it in 3 ideally. However, we had no prot paladin, which makes for much easier pulling and lets an OT(me) go dps instead. 2 seems really fast, but Robothero's guild has downed Vashj.
love: went to karazhan tonight. cleared it in a little over 2 hours. new bracers, new trinkey, new ring, new boots, new belt.
How do you clear kara in 2 hours....
Does a full clear == Everything? (ie. Nightbane, Netherspite, Illhoof)??
What kind of gear are you guys in that you can accomplish this?
I hear people say stuff like this all the time, full clears in 2- 4 hours and I just can't believe it. I used to run with a guild that I felt was very experienced and well geared (kara gear with a mix of some of the early 25 man stuff)... and we never even approached that kind of speed, and it's not like we wiped or dawdled.. we moved pretty damn quickly..
ps. I'm not trying to imply that you're a liar.. I'm just amazed is all.
We did everything. Killed Curator during the first evoke. Killed Netherspite during the second phase 2, killed prince with only 4 infernals down etc. Nightbane took the longest with the whole flight thing.
Druid tank, Fury warrior OT, holy priest, holy paladin, resto shaman, mage, lock, boomkin, rogue (enh shaman after shade), hunter. all in T5 except the boomkin. Did a good portion of the trash as AOE pulls.
the druid flasked at attumen and the flask wore off just before we did chess, so prince was down only 20ish minutes after that.
love: went to karazhan tonight. cleared it in a little over 2 hours. new bracers, new trinkey, new ring, new boots, new belt.
How do you clear kara in 2 hours....
Does a full clear == Everything? (ie. Nightbane, Netherspite, Illhoof)??
What kind of gear are you guys in that you can accomplish this?
I hear people say stuff like this all the time, full clears in 2- 4 hours and I just can't believe it. I used to run with a guild that I felt was very experienced and well geared (kara gear with a mix of some of the early 25 man stuff)... and we never even approached that kind of speed, and it's not like we wiped or dawdled.. we moved pretty damn quickly..
ps. I'm not trying to imply that you're a liar.. I'm just amazed is all.
We did everything. Killed Curator during the first evoke. Killed Netherspite during the second phase 2, killed prince with only 4 infernals down etc. Nightbane took the longest with the whole flight thing.
Druid tank, Fury warrior OT, holy priest, holy paladin, resto shaman, mage, lock, boomkin, rogue (enh shaman after shade), hunter. all in T5 except the boomkin. Did a good portion of the trash as AOE pulls.
the druid flasked at attumen and the flask wore off just before we did chess, so prince was down only 20ish minutes after that.
Not having to explain bosses saves tons of time. My last kara run was all "readycheck, go!" for everything except Netherspite. There it was "A and B on blue beam odd phases, C and D even phases, tanks X and Y alternate red and green beam. Readycheck, go!"
But instead, your DKP system failed, and on top of it I look bad in the WWS.
Huh? How did the DKP system fail? Unless I'm missing something, didn't the person with the most points get the loot?
I read this before I left for work and didn't have time to reply, but Oboro replied confirming my suspicion in the meantime. It seems like she meant "our loot system fails in general" rather than in that specific incident. Since she keeps pointing out when things go for "minimum bid" but they don't actually BID, it's obvious that she just resents the lack of a bidding-up option.
I sort of like our system but at times I really REALLY miss DKP. I kinda wish we had gone with EPGP, but we had like two officers for it, two against it, and the GM sort of against it but mostly ambivalent, so we didn't do it.
We just switched to EPGP, but with our own item formula to calculate GP based on the actual stats on the stuff instead of the default (item_level * item_slot * quality_modifier) or whatever it was.
Yeah I didn't like their default iLevel thing either, but the ratio and decay system was nice.
Echo what are you using to keep track of it? The in-game addon or someone of your own? That was probably the main thing keeping us from trying it out. The original system kept track of people's EPGP in their officer notes, and we pretend-gkick people so often that that wouldn't work for us at all.
Posts
Why did they ban you from Gchat?
Huh? How did the DKP system fail? Unless I'm missing something, didn't the person with the most points get the loot?
You can't talk in guild chat? What? That's silly.
Anyway, the DKP system fails in my eyes because the previous system I used was a bidding system. Because it was a bid system, there were no guarantees of loot for the minimum value every time. With the values as they presently are, it punishes you to the point where a single absence can't be recovered from unless everyone else is absent once as well. Until I missed the two bosses today, I had 100% attendance -- but missing two bosses has not pushed me out of one piece of loot, but seemingly three.
EDIT: Admittedly, I'm just sort of bitter that a month and a half of perfect attendance and hard work was marred so thoroughly by an emergency doctor's appointment.
EDIT 2: After some further scouring, our raid leader has been giving undocumented double DKP for first kills. Because of this, it's a miracle that someone dropped before the Morogrim kill because missing that would have pushed me a full and complete rotation back again in the loot queue. It's a non-bid system and a single boss is worth 40% of an item (25% for T5 tokens/weapons); that seems to be too little when you have a raid that is now killing a minimum of three bosses a night when bonuses are taken into consideration, and the fact that it's a non-bid, flat, minimum purchase-price system.
If I missed one full night of their doing farm content -- or tonight, where the person who took Talon was actually revealed to me just now to also have received a ring (only 125DKP, so he had the net gain of 10 aforementioned to push him ahead of me again before they even reached Morogrim) on that run.
It's stupid. It's patently dumb. ><
You'll get over it.
We're pretty happy with EPGP. Solves the problems of point hoarding and inflation nicely.
Downside is taking on eight people at once is going to be a pretty big upheaval, and we're going to have to do some negotiation and bending of rules (One of them is an early 60s shadow priest, and we're officially "70's only!" - but we do very badly need shadow priests, and it sounds like he's not dawdling at the levelling process). One thing I'm not sure they've considered is the extra commitment involved in changing from a PvP realm (Magtheridon-EU) to a PvE one (Aggramar-EU), given it's a 'no going back' thing; so that's the next bit I guess I've got to cover with them.
Dunno if it'll get anywhere, given that there's quite a few caveats on top, but early signs look promising.
Mildly obnoxious: Given that they'd be making a big commitment to do this, I'm having to be quite frank about our guild's skill and organisation. We're doing well enough to be pitched at the right level for them (early T5 content), but we always sound so *unprofessional* when I outline how we work. I'm going for being disarmingly honest, so I'm hoping that works out.
Very obnoxious: Our 'official' MT has only turned up for three raids so far this year. I suspect it's a case of post-holiday burnout and unwillingness to come back. We've no shortage of tanks in the guild, so from a well-geared character point of view, it's not a massive loss, but it does mean we're losing experience in the front lines. I've taken over the MT role now, and I'm adequate enough but I'd be the first to admit that I'm more than a bit rough around the edges; sometimes I'll do a shaky pull, sometimes I'll lose focus in a bossfight (I was traditionally raidleader, and I've only just started delegating that responsibility - which helped immensely for my general focus things - but some habits are hard to break). In the event that he doesn't return I ought to pull my finger out and throw together the nature res set I've been stockpiling for for the Hydross fight.
Happy: I'm starting to give people DPS targets, to hopefully iron out situations where people aren't pulling their weight; trying to encourage working towards a goal without risking the danger of "THOU SHALT PWN THY METRES". 14/16 DPSers in The Eye yesterday surpassed the starter target of 650DPS; the top end were well over 1k (but, well, AoEfest). One who didn't make it was a lock who missed all the AoE content so his DPS information shouldn't be considered on the same terms as those who were around for it. The other, though, probably needs A Word. Wondering if I can push the target up to 700DPS. Slightly chuffed that I managed a pretty respectable 290DPS. Also: Tons of plans (4, IIRC), including the hunter belt which I know our leading hunter has been wanting for a long time. It's dropped once for us before... in a raid with no leatherworker. Which also had another leather belt plan drop. Still no Belt of the Guardian, though.
Just Plain Weird: One of our healing shamans has vanished. I'm not talking about "Not turning up lately", I'm talking completely and utterly vanished. They're no longer in the guild, they're not showing up on armory. I can friend them, which implies their name is still in the server database in *some* respect, but they're just not around and have said nary a word on the guild forums. Is this something I can ask the GMs about? It's not my character, but they are a significant member of the guild, and with no contact information the only thing I can think might work is if a GM could tell me at least what's happened to the character or the account, even if they're unable to give any information about where they are now.
Confusion: Moonkins. What should they be allowed to bid on? I'm very well aware that moonkin itemisation in Kara is utterly abysmal, so we'll freely allow spell damage cloth in there - but how do we judge things after Kara, does the itemisation pick up, or should they always be given options on cloth? I spent some time (and a minor diplomatic incident) in the raid yesterday trying to work out if a moonkin should get rights on Solarian's leg drop. In the end it helped that someone else had DKP priority, so it became a nonissue, but it's something I could do with finding out for the next time.
Most moonkin wear a mix of cloth and leather, mostly cloth.
That is what the people said when I was discussing my druids switch from being a healer to a moonkin
You're basically a caster who can wear two types of armor as opposed to one, so wear whatever gives you the best stat bonuses.
I'm pretty sure I have a grand total of 4 pieces of leather on my person at this point, and my druid's 65.
Ghalan - Tauren Druid
You could even call me a Leatherdaddy.
How do you clear kara in 2 hours....
Does a full clear == Everything? (ie. Nightbane, Netherspite, Illhoof)??
What kind of gear are you guys in that you can accomplish this?
I hear people say stuff like this all the time, full clears in 2- 4 hours and I just can't believe it. I used to run with a guild that I felt was very experienced and well geared (kara gear with a mix of some of the early 25 man stuff)... and we never even approached that kind of speed, and it's not like we wiped or dawdled.. we moved pretty damn quickly..
ps. I'm not trying to imply that you're a liar.. I'm just amazed is all.
This was back when 2.3 came out and we were all farming badges on our mains, so we'd take 10 people in SSC/TK gear and just blow through it. You can do the trash really quickly if you chain pull and skip everything you can. Having a prot paladin helps as well; there are some pulls that can just be aoe'd.
that's why we call it the struggle, you're supposed to sweat
We did everything. Killed Curator during the first evoke. Killed Netherspite during the second phase 2, killed prince with only 4 infernals down etc. Nightbane took the longest with the whole flight thing.
Druid tank, Fury warrior OT, holy priest, holy paladin, resto shaman, mage, lock, boomkin, rogue (enh shaman after shade), hunter. all in T5 except the boomkin. Did a good portion of the trash as AOE pulls.
the druid flasked at attumen and the flask wore off just before we did chess, so prince was down only 20ish minutes after that.
Don't forget the pally tank you left behind.
That's literally what was said on vent. :P
Ready check? pbsssh. Just hope you have mana when the tank decides to pull again.
I read this before I left for work and didn't have time to reply, but Oboro replied confirming my suspicion in the meantime. It seems like she meant "our loot system fails in general" rather than in that specific incident. Since she keeps pointing out when things go for "minimum bid" but they don't actually BID, it's obvious that she just resents the lack of a bidding-up option.
I sort of like our system but at times I really REALLY miss DKP. I kinda wish we had gone with EPGP, but we had like two officers for it, two against it, and the GM sort of against it but mostly ambivalent, so we didn't do it.
Echo what are you using to keep track of it? The in-game addon or someone of your own? That was probably the main thing keeping us from trying it out. The original system kept track of people's EPGP in their officer notes, and we pretend-gkick people so often that that wouldn't work for us at all.
Except when Wave is involved.
Oh whatever.
Well, I did say involved.