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Game Design Choices that should be left 4 dead.

1235710

Posts

  • EdcrabEdcrab Actually a hack Registered User regular
    edited December 2007
    Edcrab wrote: »
    Mentioned in a previous thread- but since all the best ones have been taken, for me it's got to be jumping.

    I can live with the absence of jumping if there is absolutely nothing to jump over, but don't go blocking me with picket fences, you bastards. I'm a murderous badass with a sword/sci-fi zapping-thing, don't tell me I can't climb three feet off the ground!

    Hell, I could probably kick half of them down, but that ties in with the aforementioned "locked door" syndrome in games rife with high explosives and, I don't know, screwdrivers.

    You were all beat'd. So hard.

    :P

    Edcrab on
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  • MortiousMortious The Nightmare Begins Move to New ZealandRegistered User regular
    edited December 2007
    Taking everything away from you, mostly in FPS.

    Oh look, it's a trap. And we're going to take all your stuff! Time to start collecting everything over again.
    It just feels really artificial.

    And while I enjoyed HL2 and the grav gun, it frying other weapons just so that you're forced to use just seems like a lazy design choice.

    Mortious on
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  • Angel_of_BaconAngel_of_Bacon Moderator mod
    edited December 2007
    Silpheed wrote: »
    I'm on the other side of the fence here, I think it gets mighty silly when your character doesn't give a crap in the situation he's in. I've never felt how I "am" Gordon, all I feel is that I'm shuffling around an automaton to handle different tasks to whoever is talking to me at the moment.

    Don't get me wrong, I like Halflife 2 and I'll probably enjoy episode 1&2 once I can muster up the cash for them but I don't buy the schtick that HL2 uses in order to explain away why the protagonist is a mute. It worked in Halflife, since Gordons goal was to get the hell out of Black Mesa, which kept the necessary interactions to a minimum. Once Halflife 2 rolled in we got a gameworld that was so much more alive, but that also showed the inherent weakness of the whole mute protagonist mechanic. Hell, I'd love to see a Bloodlines style dialogue interface where you never hear your character but you can at least have a more meaningful exchange than just pressing "use" on a character. Just don't think that I'm looking for some kind remake of Gordon into "Ash" Freeman, because I can live without those kind of characters in the HL universe.

    Sorry for the ranting but as you can tell I really enjoy the Halflife games which, I guess, makes me even more sensitive to their little flaws. :P
    Maybe I'll come around to this once I can get my hands on episode 1&2?

    (shame/off: So if anyone feel the urge to donate their episode 1 copy to me they are more than welcome :P )


    I don't try to justify Freeman's muteness as being "the player's character" because if it were ME in that situation I would be like, "MAN THIS DYSTOPIAN FUTURE BITES SHIT" all the time and probably every conversation would be the other characters being like "YEAH WE GET IT SHUT THE FUCK UP GORDON."

    No, Gordon is silent just because he's a manly-man 50's-style B-Movie scientist badass. He doesn't sit around and talk and have feelings about shit, he's just "HEY A PROBLEM" and then he solves it with GUNS or SCIENCE, and doesn't dick around about it.

    Hell, if you could get hot babes to jump your bones by throwing throwing radiators at aliens with your magic science gun instead of doing crap like talking, you would too. Gordon just knows he can get away with it because he knows he's hot shit.



    Also, it's probably already been said, but checkpoints coming right before pre-boss fight cutscenes. If the boss kills me I DON'T NEED TO SEE THE FUCKING CUTSCENE AGAIN, OK? Just let me fight him already! Maybe if I've just booted the game up and loaded a save, I can stand to see it again the first time, but I don't need to see in 20 goddamn times in a row.

    Angel_of_Bacon on
  • StollsStolls Brave Corporate Logo Chicago, ILRegistered User regular
    edited December 2007
    Checkpoints placed just before an NPC friendly or radio advisor says something, which in turn happens just before a particularly difficult fight. I don't care if it's the best line of dialog ever (it never is and never will be,) if I get killed a dozen times in the following section, I'm going to hear it a dozen more times, and it's going to get irritating. This is doubly true for any cutscenes that immediately follow a checkpoint/save point.

    A replay of Penumbra reminded me of this one, but there are many other offenders as well.

    Stolls on
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  • citizen059citizen059 hello my name is citizen I'm from the InternetRegistered User regular
    edited December 2007
    I'd like to see an MMO that doesn't include levelling.

    You just create your character, pick out his or her skills, and that's it.

    You might see some very small improvement over time as skills are used, but nothing major...maybe around a 5% boost at most. We're just assuming that you're already good at what you do, that's why you're out doing it on quests and adventures.

    Of course, this would require that the developers give you something to do other than just "level up so you can get to the next area to level up again so you can get to the area after that". I'm not sure that most of the companies making MMO's today are capable of keeping players interested via storyline alone.

    citizen059 on
  • HenroidHenroid Mexican kicked from Immigration Thread Centrism is Racism :3Registered User regular
    edited December 2007
    delphinus wrote: »
    Card based games.

    laziest fucking VIDEO game design.
    Phantasy Star Online's third installment.

    Fuck.

    That.

    Shit.

    Henroid on
  • DarmakDarmak RAGE vympyvvhyc vyctyvyRegistered User regular
    edited December 2007
    citizen059 wrote: »
    I'd like to see an MMO that doesn't include levelling.

    You just create your character, pick out his or her skills, and that's it.

    You might see some very small improvement over time as skills are used, but nothing major...maybe around a 5% boost at most. We're just assuming that you're already good at what you do, that's why you're out doing it on quests and adventures.

    Of course, this would require that the developers give you something to do other than just "level up so you can get to the next area to level up again so you can get to the area after that". I'm not sure that most of the companies making MMO's today are capable of keeping players interested via storyline alone.

    Guild Wars has leveling, but it doesn't really mean much since 20 is the level cap and you hit it relatively quickly.

    Darmak on
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  • FoodFood Registered User regular
    edited December 2007
    In Wind Waker once you get a shield, your back foot ALWAYS clips though it as you walk. It's annoying because you'd think a company like Nintendo would realize that they needed to change the model or animation after looking at it throughout the 5 year fucking development cycle. That irritates the hell out of me.

    Food on
  • TiemlerTiemler Registered User regular
    edited December 2007
    Lord Yod wrote: »
    The inability to reconfigure your controls.

    This. This, this, this!

    Most games will let you invert these days, maybe screw with the sensitivty. That's about it. Pisses me off.

    The worst is, they give you a choice of 2 or 3 nearly-identical control schemes, as if to rub your nose in the fact you can't customize it yourself. Bastards.

    Tiemler on
  • shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    edited December 2007
    citizen059 wrote: »
    I'd like to see an MMO that doesn't include levelling.

    You just create your character, pick out his or her skills, and that's it.

    You might see some very small improvement over time as skills are used, but nothing major...maybe around a 5% boost at most. We're just assuming that you're already good at what you do, that's why you're out doing it on quests and adventures.

    Of course, this would require that the developers give you something to do other than just "level up so you can get to the next area to level up again so you can get to the area after that". I'm not sure that most of the companies making MMO's today are capable of keeping players interested via storyline alone.

    It's an RPG. Leveling IS the gameplay. The whole game is about improving your character.

    shryke on
  • Forever ZefiroForever Zefiro cloaked in the midnight glory of an event horizonRegistered User regular
    edited December 2007
    Edcrab wrote: »
    Edcrab wrote: »
    Mentioned in a previous thread- but since all the best ones have been taken, for me it's got to be jumping.

    I can live with the absence of jumping if there is absolutely nothing to jump over, but don't go blocking me with picket fences, you bastards. I'm a murderous badass with a sword/sci-fi zapping-thing, don't tell me I can't climb three feet off the ground!

    Hell, I could probably kick half of them down, but that ties in with the aforementioned "locked door" syndrome in games rife with high explosives and, I don't know, screwdrivers.

    You were all beat'd. So hard.

    :P

    I just started playing Xenogears, and I was like, "Oh great, the rock bridge is broken and now I have to run all the way arou--HOLY SHIT I CAN JUST JUMP ACROSS"

    I'm liking this game already.
    Evangir wrote: »
    Another thing I could do without.

    Games that have you play a certain way for the entire fucking game, only to change it all for the final boss fight. Worst examples I can think of are Lost Planet and Beyond Good and Evil.

    Worst example I can think of: Devil May Cry

    Best example of a game making the final fight a culmination of your skills: Devil May Cry 3

    Learning from your mistakes is awesome!

    Forever Zefiro on
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  • HenroidHenroid Mexican kicked from Immigration Thread Centrism is Racism :3Registered User regular
    edited December 2007
    citizen059 wrote: »
    I'm not sure that most of the companies making MMO's today are capable of keeping players interested via storyline alone.

    Blizzard has several ongoing storylines in WoW and the majority of the playerbase simply doesn't give a shit. And when they pretend to, they do it to have something to complain about.

    Henroid on
  • DarkSymphonyDarkSymphony Registered User regular
    edited December 2007
    this might sound strange, but it's something that always takes me out of a gaming experience:

    some guy or girl says "I'll be here in the evening if you wanna talk/do something/finish my quest"

    the time of day comes around via a cutscene and not actually allowing any kind of time to proceed. You could wait around for 30 years and those 5 hours will never move along unless you sleep at an inn and wake up only to see a non interactive cutscene in which something bad happens and you cannot actually do your quest, but now you gotta rescue the person in order to finish what you initially intended.

    yes, it's stupid to complain about it, but damnit I can see it happen a mile away now when a new game comes around with such an event.

    DarkSymphony on
  • YodaTunaYodaTuna Registered User regular
    edited December 2007
    Henroid wrote: »
    citizen059 wrote: »
    I'm not sure that most of the companies making MMO's today are capable of keeping players interested via storyline alone.

    Blizzard has several ongoing storylines in WoW and the majority of the playerbase simply doesn't give a shit. And when they pretend to, they do it to have something to complain about.

    FFXI had a great centralized story. It was awesome. The storylines in WoW are so hap-hazardedly connected together it makes it near impossible to tell what's actually going on. Like you'll do some quest at level 10. And then there will be a quest that is story related to it at level 60 and nothing in between.

    Fuck.

    YodaTuna on
  • YodaTunaYodaTuna Registered User regular
    edited December 2007
    Lemming wrote: »
    YodaTuna wrote: »
    Also, I hate "peeking" in an FPS. You know, using Q and E to peek out from a corner. Why? Because, you have to be in the exact right position for it to work effectively. You can't be to close to the corner or your body will stick out. You can't be too far or you won't even be able to see around the damn corner.

    Wait, what? You'd rather have to jump out entirely in order to see around a corner? I get pissed off when you CAN'T do that in an FPS.

    It's not that I hate leaning per se. Just how it's implemented. Most FPS games, you're moving pretty fast. But you seriously have like a 2 inch error limit on peaking around a corner, which means you have to slow down. Too far, you're body is out. Not far enough, you can't see around the corner.

    YodaTuna on
  • shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    edited December 2007
    Henroid wrote: »
    citizen059 wrote: »
    I'm not sure that most of the companies making MMO's today are capable of keeping players interested via storyline alone.

    Blizzard has several ongoing storylines in WoW and the majority of the playerbase simply doesn't give a shit. And when they pretend to, they do it to have something to complain about.

    I care... :cry:
    FFXI had a great centralized story. It was awesome. The storylines in WoW are so hap-hazardedly connected together it makes it near impossible to tell what's actually going on. Like you'll do some quest at level 10. And then there will be a quest that is story related to it at level 60 and nothing in between.

    Fuck.

    ???

    shryke on
  • SilvoculousSilvoculous Registered User regular
    edited December 2007
    Not sure if it's been said already, but Golden Sun. A treasure or cave entrance is separated from you by a line of little rocks, which you can't go over, or around. Sounds trivial, but a surprising number of people were pissed off by it.

    Silvoculous on
  • LewiePLewieP Registered User regular
    edited December 2007
    I really hate me having to repeat pointless bullshit in games.

    LewieP on
  • NorayNoray Registered User regular
    edited December 2007

    Also, it's probably already been said, but checkpoints coming right before pre-boss fight cutscenes. If the boss kills me I DON'T NEED TO SEE THE FUCKING CUTSCENE AGAIN, OK? Just let me fight him already! Maybe if I've just booted the game up and loaded a save, I can stand to see it again the first time, but I don't need to see in 20 goddamn times in a row.

    "Now! Now is the time to choose! Die and be free of pain! Or live, and fight your sorrows!"

    D:D:D:

    Noray on
  • ItalaxItalax Registered User regular
    edited December 2007
    Silpheed wrote: »
    I'm on the other side of the fence here, I think it gets mighty silly when your character doesn't give a crap in the situation he's in. I've never felt how I "am" Gordon, all I feel is that I'm shuffling around an automaton to handle different tasks to whoever is talking to me at the moment.

    Don't get me wrong, I like Halflife 2 and I'll probably enjoy episode 1&2 once I can muster up the cash for them but I don't buy the schtick that HL2 uses in order to explain away why the protagonist is a mute. It worked in Halflife, since Gordons goal was to get the hell out of Black Mesa, which kept the necessary interactions to a minimum. Once Halflife 2 rolled in we got a gameworld that was so much more alive, but that also showed the inherent weakness of the whole mute protagonist mechanic. Hell, I'd love to see a Bloodlines style dialogue interface where you never hear your character but you can at least have a more meaningful exchange than just pressing "use" on a character. Just don't think that I'm looking for some kind remake of Gordon into "Ash" Freeman, because I can live without those kind of characters in the HL universe.

    Sorry for the ranting but as you can tell I really enjoy the Halflife games which, I guess, makes me even more sensitive to their little flaws. :P
    Maybe I'll come around to this once I can get my hands on episode 1&2?

    (shame/off: So if anyone feel the urge to donate their episode 1 copy to me they are more than welcome :P )


    I don't try to justify Freeman's muteness as being "the player's character" because if it were ME in that situation I would be like, "MAN THIS DYSTOPIAN FUTURE BITES SHIT" all the time and probably every conversation would be the other characters being like "YEAH WE GET IT SHUT THE FUCK UP GORDON."

    No, Gordon is silent just because he's a manly-man 50's-style B-Movie scientist badass. He doesn't sit around and talk and have feelings about shit, he's just "HEY A PROBLEM" and then he solves it with GUNS or SCIENCE, and doesn't dick around about it.

    Hell, if you could get hot babes to jump your bones by throwing throwing radiators at aliens with your magic science gun instead of doing crap like talking, you would too. Gordon just knows he can get away with it because he knows he's hot shit.



    Also, it's probably already been said, but checkpoints coming right before pre-boss fight cutscenes. If the boss kills me I DON'T NEED TO SEE THE FUCKING CUTSCENE AGAIN, OK? Just let me fight him already! Maybe if I've just booted the game up and loaded a save, I can stand to see it again the first time, but I don't need to see in 20 goddamn times in a row.

    Gordon Freeman doesn't need to speak. He talks with bullets.

    Italax on
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  • DocabarDocabar Registered User regular
    edited December 2007
    He has actual hatred for people that talk, like a lower form of human, its why Alyx has never got anywhere with him.

    Docabar on
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  • NarianNarian Registered User regular
    edited December 2007
    Why doesn't Gordon talk? Because there is no voice actor to do his voice that can appease everyone.

    Narian on
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  • AJRAJR Some guy who wrestles NorwichRegistered User regular
    edited December 2007
    shryke wrote: »
    citizen059 wrote: »
    I'd like to see an MMO that doesn't include levelling.

    You just create your character, pick out his or her skills, and that's it.

    You might see some very small improvement over time as skills are used, but nothing major...maybe around a 5% boost at most. We're just assuming that you're already good at what you do, that's why you're out doing it on quests and adventures.

    Of course, this would require that the developers give you something to do other than just "level up so you can get to the next area to level up again so you can get to the area after that". I'm not sure that most of the companies making MMO's today are capable of keeping players interested via storyline alone.

    It's an RPG. Leveling IS the gameplay. The whole game is about improving your character.

    Unless I'm missing something here, he's saying that he'd like an MMO that isn't an RPG.

    AJR on
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  • Anonymous RobotAnonymous Robot Registered User regular
    edited December 2007
    Narian wrote: »
    Why doesn't Gordon talk? Because there is no voice actor to do his voice that can appease everyone.

    Denzel Washington.

    Anonymous Robot on
    Sigs shouldn't be higher than 80 pixels - Elki.

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  • YardGnomeYardGnome Registered User regular
    edited December 2007
    Narian wrote: »
    Why doesn't Gordon talk? Because there is no voice actor to do his voice that can appease everyone.

    Morgan Freeman.

    Fixed. ;-)

    YardGnome on
  • IShallRiseAgainIShallRiseAgain Registered User regular
    edited December 2007
    Oh, yeah one more thing. Games that claim your choices matter in the end, but really only the choices made at the very end matter.

    IShallRiseAgain on
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  • XagarathXagarath Registered User regular
    edited December 2007
    YardGnome wrote: »
    Narian wrote: »
    Why doesn't Gordon talk? Because there is no voice actor to do his voice that can appease everyone.

    Vincent Price

    Fixed. ;-)

    Double-fixed for my own insane preferences.

    Xagarath on
  • Speed RacerSpeed Racer Scritch scratch scritch scratch scritch scratch scritch scratch scritch scratch scritch scratch scritch scratch scritch scratch scritch scratch scritch scratch scritch scratch scritch scratchRegistered User regular
    edited December 2007
    YardGnome wrote: »
    Narian wrote: »
    Why doesn't Gordon talk? Because there is no voice actor to do his voice that can appease everyone.

    Pauly Shore.

    Fixed. ;-)

    Fixed.




    Wait no.

    Speed Racer on
  • NarianNarian Registered User regular
    edited December 2007
    So yeah, point proven.

    Narian on
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  • Jealous DevaJealous Deva Registered User regular
    edited December 2007
    Well, while we're talking Half-Life 2, I always get annoyed when a game has you perform a simple objective (say, walk across the room), and some magical event prevents you from doing that, and you have to spend 20 or 30 minutes of game time to go 10 feet, and once you do that then some other magical event/obstacle pops up and you have to do it again. Bioshock is bad for this too. I'm not saying this should never be done, and I'm not including actual puzzles in this which are fine, I'm saying do it sparingly. I shouldn't be at the end of a level and be able to look back and see the starting point, let me feel like I did actually accomplish something.

    Jealous Deva on
  • StupornautStupornaut Registered User regular
    edited December 2007
    -This maybe isn't as common as I'm thinking it is, but developers really need to stop thinking that anything a player or AI character can do quickly and in rapid succession can be accompanied by some sort of one-liner or exclamation. Just because it worked to perfection in Street Fighter II ("Hadouken!"/"Sonic boom!"/"Tiger! Tiger! Tiger uppercut!") doesn't mean it can't be the most irritating thing ever in other games ("PSYCHO BAWWWWH").

    -Stealth missions in games that don't have the ideal mechanics for them. I actually sold Yakuza because of that bit early on where you have to sneak into some function or another and keep getting spotted by the guards (who bark an oafish-sounding "HEY YOU") because I expected a game where I could solve everything by beating peoples' asses. (Then I bought it again because, hey, if I get past that part, more ass-beating.)

    -Some racing games where you can upgrade your car require you to race in an event where your car must be completely stock (example: Forza 2). There should be the ability to select one menu option where you can quickly revert your car to stock, or at least store multiple custom configurations -- otherwise you have to go through every single engine, transmission, weight reduction, bodykit, suspension and brake menu and manually remove each and every upgrade. In Forza 2 there's a couple dozen things you have to unequip in order to do this, and it's infuriating.

    -While I'm at it with the Forza/Gran Turismo side of racing games, why is it that when I enter my car in most career races, it's the only upgraded, non-stock, tricked-out custom car in a field of 8 racers, the other seven AI opponents being showroom stock and (in some cases) ridiculously underpowered compared to my car?

    -Of all the complaints I've heard about Dead Rising, I don't think I've seen anyone mention this: if you turn off the in-game music, somehow this also turns off all the cutscene dialogue. What in the shit?

    -Not sure how many people here play baseball titles, but I don't think I've played one in a long time that doesn't have the completely bullshit mechanic of having you control whichever outfielder's closest to the ball automatically. What this means is that if your opponent hits a ball to the gap (i.e. between two of the outfielders), you could be chasing down the ball with your centerfielder, watch it hit the wall and ricochet off towards the left fielder -- who you are abruptly given control of, which is a problem since because your center fielder was running towards left, your controls are now pushing the left fielder in the same direction, namely further towards the left-field corner and away from the ball. Congratulations, you just gave up an inside-the-park home run to the other team's fat, slow, 38 year-old catcher.

    Stupornaut on

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  • shyguyshyguy Registered User regular
    edited December 2007
    Insane, broken boss characters in fighting games.

    Something's wrong when I spend more time trying to beat the super-fast, super-strong boss character with an unblockable, screen-filling supermove that takes away 3/4 of my life and regenerates his health than the entire rest of the game combined.

    I liked how the Marvel vs. Capcom games handled boss characters. They were big and impressive, but they weren't hard to the point of being totally maddening.

    shyguy on
  • ItalaxItalax Registered User regular
    edited December 2007
    YardGnome wrote: »
    Narian wrote: »
    Why doesn't Gordon talk? Because there is no voice actor to do his voice that can appease everyone.

    Pauly Shore.

    Fixed. ;-)

    Fixed.

    housefreehy4.jpg

    Italax on
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  • Angel_of_BaconAngel_of_Bacon Moderator mod
    edited December 2007
    Stupornaut wrote: »
    -Of all the complaints I've heard about Dead Rising, I don't think I've seen anyone mention this: if you turn off the in-game music, somehow this also turns off all the cutscene dialogue. What in the shit?

    Whoa, I'd never even heard about this. But the real question is:

    Does it turn off Otis?
    SHUT THE FUCK UP, OTIS.

    Angel_of_Bacon on
  • Dr SnofeldDr Snofeld Registered User regular
    edited December 2007
    -SPI- wrote: »
    Lemming wrote: »
    YodaTuna wrote: »
    Also, I hate "peeking" in an FPS. You know, using Q and E to peek out from a corner. Why? Because, you have to be in the exact right position for it to work effectively. You can't be to close to the corner or your body will stick out. You can't be too far or you won't even be able to see around the damn corner.

    Wait, what? You'd rather have to jump out entirely in order to see around a corner? I get pissed off when you CAN'T do that in an FPS.
    I'm more pissed off that for some reason System Shock had the most awesome lean ever, and every game since hasn't come close. Even CoD4 still has the archaic slide sideways lean. And to make things worse they removed the awesome lean and replaced it with Gears of War style cover system, and personally I'd prefer to just have the lean, being dragged out of first person every time I want to take cover annoyed the hell out of me.

    Fixed it. Cos, y'know, analogue leaning and crouching.

    Lean all the way, or lean a little bit, or crouch and lean, or crouch a little and lean a lot...and if you stand still you don't even have to hold a button. Good times.

    Though I've never played Rainbow Six so I dunno if that has it too.

    Dr Snofeld on
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  • StupornautStupornaut Registered User regular
    edited December 2007
    Stupornaut wrote: »
    -Of all the complaints I've heard about Dead Rising, I don't think I've seen anyone mention this: if you turn off the in-game music, somehow this also turns off all the cutscene dialogue. What in the shit?

    Whoa, I'd never even heard about this. But the real question is:

    Does it turn off Otis?
    SHUT THE FUCK UP, OTIS.

    "Don't cuss me out like that! It's rude!"

    Stupornaut on

    Stupornaut.jpg
  • PancakePancake Registered User regular
    edited December 2007
    Dr Snofeld wrote: »
    -SPI- wrote: »
    Lemming wrote: »
    YodaTuna wrote: »
    Also, I hate "peeking" in an FPS. You know, using Q and E to peek out from a corner. Why? Because, you have to be in the exact right position for it to work effectively. You can't be to close to the corner or your body will stick out. You can't be too far or you won't even be able to see around the damn corner.

    Wait, what? You'd rather have to jump out entirely in order to see around a corner? I get pissed off when you CAN'T do that in an FPS.
    I'm more pissed off that for some reason System Shock had the most awesome lean ever, and every game since hasn't come close. Even CoD4 still has the archaic slide sideways lean. And to make things worse they removed the awesome lean and replaced it with Gears of War style cover system, and personally I'd prefer to just have the lean, being dragged out of first person every time I want to take cover annoyed the hell out of me.

    Fixed it. Cos, y'know, analogue leaning and crouching.

    Lean all the way, or lean a little bit, or crouch and lean, or crouch a little and lean a lot...and if you stand still you don't even have to hold a button. Good times.

    Though I've never played Rainbow Six so I dunno if that has it too.

    Too bad actually using System Shock's analogue leaning and crouching was so awkward. Well, so was using everything else in the game so I suppose it fit.

    Analogue leaning has mostly disappeared over the years, but it's starting to make something of a comeback. The console GRAW games have it in their multiplayer and Medal of Honor: Airborne has it on consoles at least.

    Pancake on
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  • citizen059citizen059 hello my name is citizen I'm from the InternetRegistered User regular
    edited December 2007
    AJR wrote: »
    shryke wrote: »
    citizen059 wrote: »
    I'd like to see an MMO that doesn't include levelling.

    You just create your character, pick out his or her skills, and that's it.

    You might see some very small improvement over time as skills are used, but nothing major...maybe around a 5% boost at most. We're just assuming that you're already good at what you do, that's why you're out doing it on quests and adventures.

    Of course, this would require that the developers give you something to do other than just "level up so you can get to the next area to level up again so you can get to the area after that". I'm not sure that most of the companies making MMO's today are capable of keeping players interested via storyline alone.

    It's an RPG. Leveling IS the gameplay. The whole game is about improving your character.

    Unless I'm missing something here, he's saying that he'd like an MMO that isn't an RPG.


    I'm saying that I don't enjoy levelling for the sake of levelling.

    The best way I can put it:

    I started playing WoW with three of my friends from work. Two of them are single males with no children, one was a married female with no children. I'm married and have a 2 year old son.

    The two single guys, obviously without any sort of demands on their spare time, had no trouble finding time to play.

    The married girl wasn't quite as free, but she played WoW while her husband was playing games on his 360.

    I have a wife who hates that I play videogames and a son who requires attention because he's a small child ("Hey, what are you...GET THAT BANANA OUT OF THE VCR!"). As such, I have an erratic schedule. There is no defined period of time when I play anything, I just get my time in where I can.

    When we first started everything was OK, but after about a month, the two single guys were level 50-ish, the girl was in her 40's, and I was stuck grinding through my 20's.

    While they're off running instances together having a great time, I'm trying my hardest to level up in order to play alongside my friends. I just didn't have as much time to play as they did. On occasion they'd have pity and run me through an instance, but what's fun about that? I stand there and watch while they lay waste to mobs 20 levels lower than they are? Nobody enjoyed that.

    Eventually I wound up quitting because I didn't feel I was part of the group anymore. While I'm struggling by myself in lowbie land, they're having a blast playing together all over the map.

    Having to overcome a levelling scheme in a game where players don't have equal time to play creates an artificial barrier between them.

    I tried to get them into Guild Wars with me, because as someone mentioned above, the levelling is over very quickly in that game. Only one of the three enjoyed it enough to play it, but he's the PvP'er of the group so he spends all his time doing that, both in GW and WoW. Neither of the other two liked GW very much.

    As it stands, I don't really do MMO's anymore. I hop into Asheron's Call now and then just to mess around, but that's about it. I've come to realize that the current structure of MMO's penalizes players who don't have long periods of time to commit to them, so I've drifted back into single player gaming for the most part. I just miss the social aspect of MMO games, and wish there were more titles that catered more to the casual types. Remove the artificial barriers keeping people apart, and give us a more compelling reason to keep an active subscription than just "If I make it to level 50 I get the Ray of Awesome spell, then it upgrades to Ray of So Awesome at 55".

    Saying all of this, though, I understand that I'm being completely unrealistic.

    citizen059 on
  • mausmalonemausmalone Registered User regular
    edited December 2007
    Stupornaut wrote: »
    (snip)

    -Some racing games where you can upgrade your car require you to race in an event where your car must be completely stock (example: Forza 2). There should be the ability to select one menu option where you can quickly revert your car to stock, or at least store multiple custom configurations -- otherwise you have to go through every single engine, transmission, weight reduction, bodykit, suspension and brake menu and manually remove each and every upgrade. In Forza 2 there's a couple dozen things you have to unequip in order to do this, and it's infuriating.

    (snip)

    GranTurismo does allow you to save 3 configurations per car ... But I'm not sure if that's just settings like spring rate etc ... or if it'll also save which parts you have equipped.

    I use it in GT4 to have a "road course" and "speedway" settings for my cars ... for the smaller courses it's pointless having a car able to go at full speed because you almost never get there. It's much more advantageous to set it up to accelerate quickly from a cornering speed to a good highway speed. A speedway with soft corners and long straights will require your best top speed.

    But I usually solve the "stock" race by having a stable of cars ... some are good when souped up, some are good stock ... and they're not always the same cars.

    mausmalone on
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  • NorayNoray Registered User regular
    edited December 2007
    Oh good call, someone mentioned stealth sections in games that aren't stealth games. Almost any 3d adventure game is guilty of this, and they're all equally horrible. Yes I'm looking at you Broken Sword 3, Fahrenheit/Indigo Prophecy and Dreamfall. It just baffles me. Every time it happens, that shit gets called out, yet devs keep doing it.

    Basically, that goes for any game trying to shoehorn gameplay elements into it that just don't jive with the rest of the game.

    Noray on
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