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Flame on: Windows Vista

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Posts

  • MorskittarMorskittar Registered User regular
    edited May 2008
    Virtualization isn't yet at the point where a true compatibility layer would work in the consumer space; there seems to be too many variables, weird drivers, hardware issues and all that.

    We've all seen how painful the changes can be, too. Much of why Vista gets beat up in the gamer/consumer space is the first few generations of video drivers. The new driver model is *vastly* better from both tech and performance standpoints, but the hardware manufacturers hit a brick wall when they realized they couldn't use their Win 2k lines of drivers and port them over. Starting from the ground up creates huge frustration.

    And in the end, consumers just hear "doesn't work as expected" and buy a Mac.

    Morskittar on
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  • DehumanizedDehumanized Registered User regular
    edited May 2008
    Morskittar wrote: »
    Virtualization isn't yet at the point where a true compatibility layer would work in the consumer space; there seems to be too many variables, weird drivers, hardware issues and all that.

    We've all seen how painful the changes can be, too. Much of why Vista gets beat up in the gamer/consumer space is the first few generations of video drivers. The new driver model is *vastly* better from both tech and performance standpoints, but the hardware manufacturers hit a brick wall when they realized they couldn't use their Win 2k lines of drivers and port them over. Starting from the ground up creates huge frustration.

    And in the end, consumers just hear "doesn't work as expected" and buy a Mac.

    Mac's market share is still pretty damn low. Less of "buying a mac" and more of "deciding not to upgrade".

    I could definitely see the Windows platform collapse under its own weight sometime in the future. There's just so much legacy software it has to support while still trying to yank people into modern computing practices.

    Dehumanized on
  • IdolisideIdoliside Registered User regular
    edited May 2008
    Just had an odd experience with Vista and Realtek cards. I tried to start up COD4 multiplayer with no luck (single player working fine). Tried everything, nothing was working.
    Then i plugged in the microphone (simple jack lead, no USB) and it worked.
    How odd is that?

    Idoliside on
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  • MorskittarMorskittar Registered User regular
    edited May 2008
    Morskittar wrote: »
    Virtualization isn't yet at the point where a true compatibility layer would work in the consumer space; there seems to be too many variables, weird drivers, hardware issues and all that.

    We've all seen how painful the changes can be, too. Much of why Vista gets beat up in the gamer/consumer space is the first few generations of video drivers. The new driver model is *vastly* better from both tech and performance standpoints, but the hardware manufacturers hit a brick wall when they realized they couldn't use their Win 2k lines of drivers and port them over. Starting from the ground up creates huge frustration.

    And in the end, consumers just hear "doesn't work as expected" and buy a Mac.

    Mac's market share is still pretty damn low. Less of "buying a mac" and more of "deciding not to upgrade".

    I could definitely see the Windows platform collapse under its own weight sometime in the future. There's just so much legacy software it has to support while still trying to yank people into modern computing practices.

    That's true. Though anecdotally, one might also include large numbers of people "thinking" about switching. It will be increasingly difficult for Microsoft to compete with vertically integrated hardware/software solutions in the mass market consumer space.

    Morskittar on
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  • AzioAzio Registered User regular
    edited May 2008
    I will be very surprised if they don't learn from their mistakes and make smarter decisions with the next Windows release. Either way, Microsoft is a huge corporation with practically unlimited wealth. Windows is by no means their only source of income. The show's not over for them quite yet.

    Azio on
  • AzioAzio Registered User regular
    edited May 2008
    fogeyman wrote: »
    Azio wrote: »
    Well it depends. If you want to be able to run a lot of programs or have a lot of documents open at once, then stick with the 3 gigs. If you want better performance on individual tasks, games for example, then pull one and go dual-channel.
    Cool, thanks. I ripped out the odd stick and now things seem to be running much faster. Also, my Windows Experience Index score went up to 5.0 (from 2.2) for RAM.
    Yeah, honestly I think having dual-channel enabled will give you far better performance overall, outweighing whatever benefit the extra gig of ram was giving you.

    Azio on
  • RohanRohan Registered User regular
    edited May 2008
    Azio wrote: »
    It's really weird that you're having that much trouble with it. I run into the occasional hiccough on my machines but nothing compared to what you're describing.

    For the sound problem, as I said you should try System Restore. I had virtually the same thing happen on my Athlon X2, which was running XP at the time. I downloaded a new driver for my Realtek sound chip from Windows Update, but it didn't come with the special Realtek control panel software so I couldn't turn on 5.1 mode. I used System Restore to undo the update, and got the latest driver and software from the motherboard manufacturer. Then I bought a proper sound card.

    As for the fucked-up icons, it almost looks like the kind of artefacts that result from the video card overheating. Try to find out the temperature. It sounds like a pretty unique problem which leads me to believe some piece of hardware is broken or too hot.

    The endless hard drive access you describe is SuperFetch at work.
    Wikipedia wrote:
    SuperFetch is a technology that pre-loads commonly used applications into the memory to reduce their load times. It's based on the "prefetcher" function in Windows XP. [7]

    The intent is to improve performance in situations where running an anti-virus scan or back-up utility would result in otherwise recently-used information being paged out to disk, or disposed from in-memory caches, resulting in lengthy delays when a user comes back to their computer after a period of non-use.

    SuperFetch also keeps track of what times of day that applications are used, which allows it to intelligently pre-load information that is expected to be used in the near future.

    By default the necessary files are loaded into main memory but Windows Vista can use alternate storage such as USB flash drives, thereby freeing up main memory. Although hard disks usually have higher data transfer rates, flash drives can be faster for small files or non-sequential I/O because of their short random seek times.

    I can't remember what temperature my video card is running at, but I checked it a few months back just after a large battle in Medieval II and it was well within it's typical operating range. In any case, I never have any problems with XP (that I use all the time, compared to once or twice every few weeks with Vista) that would suggest overheating somewhere.

    I wasn't going to Restore to an earlier date that night as I had just installed Crysis and just wanted to get a few minutes of gaming in before bed. In any case, downloading a slightly older version returned the sound manager program and fixed the sound issue... but why there should be an issue at all is beyond me, especially when I had no problems with it before then.

    Isn't Superfetch supposed to stop all that access after a while? The media pc is constantly chugging, while Vista on my desktop doesn't do that at all. It's ironic, because I very rarely boot into Vista on my desktop, and the media pc is on almost 24/7.

    Rohan on
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  • RookRook Registered User regular
    edited May 2008
    if you run
    perfmon /res
    

    you should be able to see what's causing all the disk access.

    Rook on
  • Professor SnugglesworthProfessor Snugglesworth Registered User regular
    edited May 2008
    I have a few inquiries, some I've probably asked before, but the thread's gotten too big for me to check everything, so....

    1. I still get the occasional blue screen errors, but it's never the same numerical code twice. They're all basically 0x0000etc but with different numbers in the end.

    As far as I can tell, the biggest causes for the bluescreens is the use of Zoom Player, and sometimes when running Steam. Again, I've run the diagnostics tool and it doesn't point to faulty hardware.

    I believe someone mentioned a scanning program that was a step up from Vista's diagnostic tool, but I forgot the name. Failing that, does anyone else have any solutions?

    2. My sister brought up today the subject of using Vista to backup all our files, in case a random act of God or machine causes our hard drive to wipe out, losing everything. I mostly ignored this possibility, but now she's got my all paranoid. How do you use Vista's backup feature?

    3. Is there any way to speed up the startup screen for Vista? I know it's a given that the more programs you have installed, the longer it takes for the system to boot up, but I was wondering if there was any way to speed things up without eliminating any programs? My PC takes about a minute and a half to two minutes before everything loads on the desktop.

    4. Possibly related to no 3, but I've got 2gb of RAM right now. Should I spring for 1 more gig, or 2?

    5. Is there a way to have Vista search for automatic driver updates for all my stuff, such as my Nvidia driver, or other forms of software?

    6. Finally, this last question might be better suited for a different thread, but let me check here anyway: I bought an audio optical cable for my PC, to get 6.1 surround sound when hooked to my home theater. I plugged the cable, and tried using the audio software, but I couldn't get a response from my speakers. Any ideas?

    Professor Snugglesworth on
  • RookRook Registered User regular
    edited May 2008
    3/ I honestly never turn off my Desktop, and rarely my Laptop, I just use the sleep modes that uses almost zero battery and it comes back on in about 10 seconds.

    4/ Hard to say, I have 2gb in my laptop and 3gb in my desktop, I don't really notice the difference but it's so cheap at the moment.

    5/ Maybe not all of it, but it should automatically check for drivers. I don't bother using it as it's a bit unreliable, and really if it ain't broke don't try and fix it.

    6/ You might need to enable it first. Check your software.

    Rook on
  • Professor SnugglesworthProfessor Snugglesworth Registered User regular
    edited May 2008
    I've been chided before about shutting off my PC, but I'm one of those old fogeys who believes that leaving anything on for days at a time might run the risk of overheating. If you can say with absolute certainty that it isn't an issue with PCs, then I might consider it, pending two things:

    1. Another reason I shut off my PC is because the running noise bugs me when I sleep. Does it get noticeably quieter when it's in sleep mode?

    2. During sleep mode, can downloads still run, or other processes such as defrag?

    Professor Snugglesworth on
  • RookRook Registered User regular
    edited May 2008
    I've been chided before about shutting off my PC, but I'm one of those old fogeys who believes that leaving anything on for days at a time might run the risk of overheating. If you can say with absolute certainty that it isn't an issue with PCs, then I might consider it, pending two things:

    1. Another reason I shut off my PC is because the running noise bugs me when I sleep. Does it get noticeably quieter when it's in sleep mode?

    2. During sleep mode, can downloads still run, or other processes such as defrag?

    Everything is off apart from a tiny trickle of power to your ram. The computer is effectively dead.

    Rook on
  • Professor SnugglesworthProfessor Snugglesworth Registered User regular
    edited May 2008
    Too bad, I've been trying to find an occasion where I can defrag for 6-8 hours. Unfortunately I'm on my PC almost all the time.

    Still, if it's quiet, I'll go with sleep mode from now on.

    Professor Snugglesworth on
  • squirlysquirly Registered User
    edited May 2008
    You know that fake 'Windows 7' video that was on a ton of sites a week or 2 ago? Well, it's 'real,' in a sense. It was a video of a beta third-party product which look quite interesting: http://www.extensoft.com/?p=13

    And for fun: Vista's UAC spots rootkits, tests find & Vista SP1 outperforms XP SP2 in file copy

    squirly on
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  • AyulinAyulin Registered User regular
    edited May 2008
    Idoliside wrote: »
    Just had an odd experience with Vista and Realtek cards. I tried to start up COD4 multiplayer with no luck (single player working fine). Tried everything, nothing was working.
    Then i plugged in the microphone (simple jack lead, no USB) and it worked.
    How odd is that?

    Had a friend with that issue on his Dell XPS M1210. COD4 Multiplayer would just fail to load, and throw up that "iw3mp.exe has stopped working" error unless he plugged in a mic; google shows other people have that issue too.

    Haven't experienced it on my system, happily, but it's pretty odd. (Then again, I have an in-built mic, so maybe that's why.)

    Ayulin on
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  • jonxpjonxp [E] PC Security Registered User regular
    edited May 2008
    squirly wrote: »

    Dude, don't you read digg/slashdot/etc? UAC is a useless addition that serves no actual purpose, and should be turned off at the first opportunity. Man, I mean half this thread has been about it. That article is clearly a complete fabrication by the capitalist regime that is oppressing Free Software.

    jonxp on
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  • FyreWulffFyreWulff Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited May 2008
    I liked UAC a lot more after a MS dev pointed out that they intentionally made it annoying so developers would code their programs in such a way that it didn't need to elevate privileges all the time.

    FyreWulff on
  • powersurgepowersurge Registered User
    edited May 2008
    Ayulin wrote: »
    Idoliside wrote: »
    Just had an odd experience with Vista and Realtek cards. I tried to start up COD4 multiplayer with no luck (single player working fine). Tried everything, nothing was working.
    Then i plugged in the microphone (simple jack lead, no USB) and it worked.
    How odd is that?

    Had a friend with that issue on his Dell XPS M1210. COD4 Multiplayer would just fail to load, and throw up that "iw3mp.exe has stopped working" error unless he plugged in a mic; google shows other people have that issue too.

    Haven't experienced it on my system, happily, but it's pretty odd. (Then again, I have an in-built mic, so maybe that's why.)

    I had this exact same issue but this is what fixed it for me (quoting a firingsquad thread):
    Enable Stereo MIX, Vista RealTek
    Fixed Mine This way.

    -Start, control panel
    -Hardware and Sound
    -Sound
    -Recording Tab
    -Right Click in window, chose "Show Disabled Devices"
    -"Setero MIX"appeared, Right Click and choose enable
    -OK

    No need for a mic to be plugged in :)

    powersurge on
  • JasconiusJasconius sword criminal mad onlineRegistered User regular
    edited May 2008
    jonxp wrote: »
    squirly wrote: »

    Dude, don't you read digg/slashdot/etc? UAC is a useless addition that serves no actual purpose, and should be turned off at the first opportunity. Man, I mean half this thread has been about it. That article is clearly a complete fabrication by the capitalist regime that is oppressing Free Software.

    Its hard to tell if this is serious or joking but I would like to know because unlike most of the thread I've had Vista for less than a month and know nothing about UAC.

    Jasconius on
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  • squirlysquirly Registered User
    edited May 2008
    Jasconius wrote: »
    jonxp wrote: »
    squirly wrote: »

    Dude, don't you read digg/slashdot/etc? UAC is a useless addition that serves no actual purpose, and should be turned off at the first opportunity. Man, I mean half this thread has been about it. That article is clearly a complete fabrication by the capitalist regime that is oppressing Free Software.

    Its hard to tell if this is serious or joking but I would like to know because unlike most of the thread I've had Vista for less than a month and know nothing about UAC.
    I'm pretty sure he's being sarcastic. :)

    squirly on
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  • iTunesIsEviliTunesIsEvil Registered User regular
    edited May 2008
    Jasconius wrote: »
    Its hard to tell if this is serious or joking but I would like to know because unlike most of the thread I've had Vista for less than a month and know nothing about UAC.
    I can be useful, but it can also be really annoying if you're used to running as an Administrator.

    iTunesIsEvil on
  • DarkWarriorDarkWarrior __BANNED USERS
    edited May 2008
    Its especially annoying when game uninstalls can override your administrative abilities. I cannot get rid of fucking SimCity at all, its too priveleged to remove by my command.

    DarkWarrior on
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  • MorskittarMorskittar Registered User regular
    edited May 2008
    UAC has gotten less annoying as third-party developers have updated to stop violating the security.

    Morskittar on
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  • Lucky CynicLucky Cynic Registered User regular
    edited May 2008
    Its especially annoying when game uninstalls can override your administrative abilities. I cannot get rid of fucking SimCity at all, its too priveleged to remove by my command.

    Sim City 4 or Sim City Societies? Because 4 is something magical. Societies is an abomination.

    Lucky Cynic on
  • DarkWarriorDarkWarrior __BANNED USERS
    edited May 2008
    Its especially annoying when game uninstalls can override your administrative abilities. I cannot get rid of fucking SimCity at all, its too priveleged to remove by my command.

    Sim City 4 or Sim City Societies? Because 4 is something magical. Societies is an abomination.

    Societies. Priveleges had apparently been set to prevent its removal even on my administrator account. The only thing that got past that stage was to go into the core administrator account and uninstall but literally, 40 minutes went by and no progress.

    Ive just had to go delete the folder and remove it from the registry.

    DarkWarrior on
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  • Blake TBlake T Registered User regular
    edited May 2008
    I can't see all the complaints about UAC, I get bothered about it once a week tops.

    Blake T on
  • AretèAretè infiltrating neo zeed compoundRegistered User regular
    edited May 2008
    UAC doesnt bother me at all since I am never logged into my own PC as an administrator. The account I use for gaming web surfing fapping to porn, is only a basic user account. So when I need to install or run something requires privileges I have to do run as anyways.

    Aretè on
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  • IdolisideIdoliside Registered User regular
    edited May 2008
    Its especially annoying when game uninstalls can override your administrative abilities. I cannot get rid of fucking SimCity at all, its too priveleged to remove by my command.

    Sim City 4 or Sim City Societies? Because 4 is something magical. Societies is an abomination.

    Societies. Priveleges had apparently been set to prevent its removal even on my administrator account. The only thing that got past that stage was to go into the core administrator account and uninstall but literally, 40 minutes went by and no progress.

    Ive just had to go delete the folder and remove it from the registry.

    The good ol folder-smash method....ah many a time i've had to do that will corrupt uninstalls.

    Idoliside on
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  • DehumanizedDehumanized Registered User regular
    edited June 2008
    Migrating to Vista x64. So far the one program I was really worried about compatibility-wise looks to be running fine.

    Dehumanized on
  • IdolisideIdoliside Registered User regular
    edited June 2008
    Migrating to Vista x64. So far the one program I was really worried about compatibility-wise looks to be running fine.

    Welcome to the 64bit fold. We welcome all those people wanting more RAM.
    The more people in 64, the better is it...

    Idoliside on
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  • Mmmm... Cocks...Mmmm... Cocks... Registered User regular
    edited June 2008
    Idoliside wrote: »
    Migrating to Vista x64. So far the one program I was really worried about compatibility-wise looks to be running fine.

    Welcome to the 64bit fold. We welcome all those people wanting more RAM.
    The more people in 64, the better is it...
    I've been rocking Ultimate 64 bit for about maybe a month now and I've yet to hit a single bump.
    I was insanely paranoid about it when first starting off but I couldn't be happier.

    Mmmm... Cocks... on
  • DehumanizedDehumanized Registered User regular
    edited June 2008
    Yeah, I've found one issue in that program that I was worried about, but it's relatively minor. Now if only Macromedia would get with the program on x64 flash support...

    Dehumanized on
  • MorithainMorithain Registered User
    edited June 2008
    I have a quick question regarding Vista on a Mac. I'm currently using a regular MacBook, with these specs:

    Model Name: MacBook
    Processor Name: Intel Core 2 Duo
    Processor Speed: 2.16 GHz
    Number Of Processors: 1
    Total Number Of Cores: 2
    L2 Cache (per processor): 4 MB
    Memory: 1 GB
    Bus Speed: 667 MHz
    Boot ROM Version: MB21.00A5.B07
    SMC Version: 1.17f0

    I've been considering the option of using Boot Camp to run Vista alongside Tiger (upgrading to Leopard in 3 or so months) and I've been wondering if Vista is "good enough" to use now. Since I've heard nothing but pretty bad things about the OS since it was released. Should I give Vista a go or just run XP instead?

    And just to be clear, this is a plain MacBook, meaning it's using a built-in GPU and not an NVIDIA 8-Series like the MacBook Pro.

    Morithain on
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  • JasconiusJasconius sword criminal mad onlineRegistered User regular
    edited June 2008
    With 1GB of memory it probably won't be sparkling, I was just at a friends house and she has a laptop with 1GB of RAM on it and it's quite slow.

    Takes a couple of minutes to boot and almost a full minute to shut off.

    I think it's pretty much the equivalent of running XP with 512 megs of RAM. Is it enough? Yup. Will it be pretty? No, not really.

    You could probably gain some performance by turning off Aero though, that does take a good chunk of RAM in itself.

    Jasconius on
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  • jonxpjonxp [E] PC Security Registered User regular
    edited June 2008
    Morithain wrote: »
    I have a quick question regarding Vista on a Mac. I'm currently using a regular MacBook, with these specs:

    Model Name: MacBook
    Processor Name: Intel Core 2 Duo
    Processor Speed: 2.16 GHz
    Number Of Processors: 1
    Total Number Of Cores: 2
    L2 Cache (per processor): 4 MB
    Memory: 1 GB
    Bus Speed: 667 MHz
    Boot ROM Version: MB21.00A5.B07
    SMC Version: 1.17f0

    I've been considering the option of using Boot Camp to run Vista alongside Tiger (upgrading to Leopard in 3 or so months) and I've been wondering if Vista is "good enough" to use now. Since I've heard nothing but pretty bad things about the OS since it was released. Should I give Vista a go or just run XP instead?

    And just to be clear, this is a plain MacBook, meaning it's using a built-in GPU and not an NVIDIA 8-Series like the MacBook Pro.

    I've only ever run it on a Macbook Pro, but it ran fine there with 1 gig. However, the embedded graphics on the regular Macbook may not be conducive to Aero.

    Also, a side note, as of SP1 Vista has full support for EFI (what Macs use to boot, rather than BIOS). I don't know if this means you don't need Bootcamp or not, but it may be worth looking in to.

    jonxp on
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  • LaCabraLaCabra Registered User regular
    edited June 2008
    I installed Vista Ultimate on a regular macbook once, with the intel integrated graphics. Aero ran perfectly, which surprised me a bit, but there it is.

    LaCabra on
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  • MayGodHaveMercyMayGodHaveMercy Registered User regular
    edited June 2008
    So.... quick question. I'm a Vista convert, but I find myself constantly annoyed by the system asking me to give admin permission for every little thing I do. "Are you sure that's okay, sir?" "Do you know what you're doing?"

    How the hell do I make it stop. I shouldn't have to click "Run as Admin" when I'm logged in as a goddamn admin.

    MayGodHaveMercy on
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  • iTunesIsEviliTunesIsEvil Registered User regular
    edited June 2008
    Like make it stop for-ev-er?

    Start => Search for: User Accounts => Make sure you're selcted, and choose "Turn User Account Control on or off". Then on the next screen take the check mark out of the CheckBox control, and click OK. You'll be asked to reboot.

    iTunesIsEvil on
  • fightinfilipinofightinfilipino Angry as Hell CharlottesvilleRegistered User regular
    edited June 2008
    So.... quick question. I'm a Vista convert, but I find myself constantly annoyed by the system asking me to give admin permission for every little thing I do. "Are you sure that's okay, sir?" "Do you know what you're doing?"

    How the hell do I make it stop. I shouldn't have to click "Run as Admin" when I'm logged in as a goddamn admin.

    you may not want to shut off UAC entirely. it does seem to protect your system against malicious software, at least from the few analyses i've read about it.

    i've been using Ultimate for a month and a half now and the UAC prompts really aren't all that annoying.

    fightinfilipino on
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  • MayGodHaveMercyMayGodHaveMercy Registered User regular
    edited June 2008
    Oh. That's what UAC is. Hah. So, leave it on, deal with the pop-ups, then? This would be your recommendation?

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