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Flame on: Windows Vista

1246731

Posts

  • CyvrosCyvros London 1965Registered User regular
    edited December 2007
    I like Vista. Took me a while to get used to it, but I like it.

    The worst thing about it for me is UAC - I can't rename a Start Menu shortcut or install a font (oh yes, I recall The Great Font Plague of 1827, can you?) without it popping up. And, as many people have pointed out, it's encouraging bad habits amongst users who most probably will either turn it off or just go click-happy on the "Continue" or "Allow" buttons. But I've gotten used to it and I'm consciously not click-happy - it's a security measure and I like to think of it like sudo and gksu for Linux, only without having to put in my password.

    Nova_C wrote: »
    Most people's complaints (In my experience - I didn't read this whole thread, so I don't what's been covered) seem to revolve around Vista using too much RAM and requiring you to confirm everything you do. The too much RAM thing is bullocks - anyone who says that is simply ignorant of Vista's pre-fetch behavior and it took me all of 2 minutes to locate the settings for install security. Vista only warns me about stuff that happens unexpectedly.
    Rolo wrote: »
    I'm glad you don't work in testing. The "well it worked fine on my computer" anecdotal evidence defense doesn't mean it will work properly on everyone else's computers. Maybe the reason your mind gets boggled when people up criticism of Vista is that you don't know what you're talking about.

    I agree. My laptop's fairly average - 1 gig of RAM, that sort of thing. But, even with Aero, Gadgets, a three-day-old Firefox session and what-not going on, it's still more responsive than my old 512meg XP machine.

    And then I have a friend who has a better processor, double my RAM, you name it - and it's way slower on that computer. And, if anything, I have way more junk and apps on my laptop than there is on his. Go figure.

    It just seems (from this and all the articles, posts and rants I read about Vista's performance) like Vista's performance absurdly varies.

    Not that I actually use half of Vista's "Wow" features anymore (the sparkle wore off after a month or two and I use the Classic interface, no sidebar, etc.).


    My absolute favourite feature of Vista is the search. WinKey, type and I can find files and apps. I barely even use Explorer anymore or bother with sorting out my files (something I used to do obsessively).

    But I have this weird thing where, every so often, it'll BSOD after booting, then work fine. It's a bit odd after my old XP machine only BSODded three times - always because WMP was trying to play WMV files...


    As for Office 2007 - to start with, it's a bloody big breath of bloody fresh air. I don't use it (I use OpenOffice.org), but I liked it. My only real problem with it is that the Ribbon isn't customisable (there are third-party add-ons that let you customise it, add tabs or even bring back the pre-07 menus) - there are things in the Ribbon that I never use and probably never will. Anyway, I just use OOo and stick shortcuts on everything so I don't have to touch the menus.

    I just want Steve Sinofsky and the Office 07 team members they brought over for Windows 7 to make it good. Not super-sparkle with a bucket of glitter on top, just good.


    I do agree about Microsoft doing Vista for themselves to a point - it feels a bit like Vista was a hurdle that they just needed to push out of the way so that they could get onto the next Windows and they decided to lose the hurdle by selling it to the public in eight different colours (bad analogy, I know). With acrobats in Times Square. And millions of dollars for marketing.


    Anyway, all of this stuff is subjective. Great example - which UI is better is all down to the user. Say I like using one font, but you may like another - we don't need to spend over a hundred posts debating about which font is better. (If any of this post made any sense at all, I'll be happy.)

    Cyvros on
    Cy turned out to be much better in person.
  • AzioAzio Registered User regular
    edited December 2007
    Morskittar wrote: »
    I think, if MS continues as it always has, Windows will be largely edged out of the consumer PC space, in favor of Macs. A dozen different hardware configurations will, by nature, always be simpler and more consumer-friendly than... infinite combinations. As consumers become more and more choice-adverse, Apple's strengths move more and more into line.
    Don't be ridiculous. Consumers aren't going to adopt Macs en masse just because a bunch of geeks hate Vista. Apple has laughable customer service. The hardware is too expensive. Most consumers don't even know what operating system they're running, let alone care. Price and compatibility are the ultimate deciding factors for the vast majority of computer sales. Macs are not nearly as compatible as Windows PCs, nor as cheap. The familiarity of the Windows interface factors in significantly as well.

    If anything consumers will begin to adopt Ubuntu, which is a far more impressive operating system considering how immature it is, and given a few years it could become very successful the budget market (although not likely).

    By the way, I got roped into buying a Macbook Pro back in September from this sort of hype, and after three months (three!) I have no laptop. Why? Because it's at a repair shop in Delta being serviced, because the screen suddenly got a green line on it that wouldn't go away. I'm not impressed by this, nor am I particularly fond of Mac OS X or other Apple software. It took a whole month to deliver. I will probably not buy another Mac, nor can I recommend them to anyone except those few remaining beginners for whom money is no object.

    Azio on
  • ViolyntViolynt regular
    edited December 2007
    I had a problem with my Dell Inspiron 9300's motherboard. Dell sent a box to me through DHL, the guy who delivered also packed it and it took it with him. 2 days later I got my laptop back. Fixed.

    After the million or so horror stories I had read about, I was pretty skeptical.

    Violynt on
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  • CyvrosCyvros London 1965Registered User regular
    edited December 2007
    Azio wrote: »
    If anything consumers will begin to adopt Ubuntu, which is a far more impressive operating system considering how immature it is, and given a few years it could become very successful the budget market (although not likely).

    I'm wavering off-topic, but there is Everex's budget gPC (which runs the Ubuntu-based gOS). Underneath Enlightenment, it's more-or-less exactly the same Ubuntu, and with the Everex line expanding, it could maybe possibly start making a dent in the market for those who just use computers for the basics.

    Cyvros on
    Cy turned out to be much better in person.
  • wunderbarwunderbar What Have I Done? Registered User regular
    edited December 2007
    Cyvros wrote: »
    Azio wrote: »
    If anything consumers will begin to adopt Ubuntu, which is a far more impressive operating system considering how immature it is, and given a few years it could become very successful the budget market (although not likely).

    I'm wavering off-topic, but there is Everex's budget gPC (which runs the Ubuntu-based gOS). Underneath Enlightenment, it's more-or-less exactly the same Ubuntu, and with the Everex line expanding, it could maybe possibly start making a dent in the market for those who just use computers for the basics.

    Except for the fact that PC got universally panned as pretty much being a piece of shit, even when it's price tag was factored in?

    I'm sorry, anyone who thinks that desktop linux will hit mainstream before Mac is totally fooling themselves. Mac is already on the verge of mainstream. 99% of the population doesnt' even know what linux is. While pretty much everyone in my family has asked me within the past year if it is worth getting a Mac. I don't always say yes, and I tell them the pros and cons of owning a mac, and let them make their own decision. Most ended up with a PC, but only because of cost. If apple would only cut their prices, and I'm talking a somewhat significant cut, somewhere around 20% off their computers, they'd sell as fast as iPods. Even with the high prices, the last quarter of their fiscal year they set a record number for number of Apple PC's shipped in 3 months in the 20+ year history of the company.

    wunderbar on
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  • victor_c26victor_c26 Registered User regular
    edited December 2007
    And that right there is scary to a person like me. I don't want to be a computer user in a Mac dominated world.

    The thing I love about PC boxes will be taken away if the world goes Mac. 50%/50% is perfectly fine with me. 80%/20% would be a fucked up situation if you ask me.

    victor_c26 on
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  • iTunesIsEviliTunesIsEvil Registered User regular
    edited December 2007
    victor_c26 wrote: »
    And that right there is scary to a person like me. I don't want to be a computer user in a Mac dominated world.

    The thing I love about PC boxes will be taken away if the world goes Mac. 50%/50% is perfectly fine with me. 80%/20% would be a fucked up situation if you ask me.
    I... I don't understand. What would be taken away? Just the dominance of the PC industry? If that's it I can understand, I'm develop for Windows. I just didn't get what it was that would be taken away...

    iTunesIsEvil on
  • victor_c26victor_c26 Registered User regular
    edited December 2007
    victor_c26 wrote: »
    And that right there is scary to a person like me. I don't want to be a computer user in a Mac dominated world.

    The thing I love about PC boxes will be taken away if the world goes Mac. 50%/50% is perfectly fine with me. 80%/20% would be a fucked up situation if you ask me.
    I... I don't understand. What would be taken away? Just the dominance of the PC industry? If that's it I can understand, I'm develop for Windows. I just didn't get what it was that would be taken away...

    The choices I have in picking out parts, and the ability to modify and create my own box. And we all know Apple's stance when users want to modify their hardware.

    It would be like taking a Painters paintbrushes, canvas and paint supplies, and making him buy a painting from a random gallery made from some schmuck he doesn't even know.

    victor_c26 on
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  • iTunesIsEviliTunesIsEvil Registered User regular
    edited December 2007
    victor_c26 wrote: »
    victor_c26 wrote: »
    And that right there is scary to a person like me. I don't want to be a computer user in a Mac dominated world.

    The thing I love about PC boxes will be taken away if the world goes Mac. 50%/50% is perfectly fine with me. 80%/20% would be a fucked up situation if you ask me.
    I... I don't understand. What would be taken away? Just the dominance of the PC industry? If that's it I can understand, I'm develop for Windows. I just didn't get what it was that would be taken away...

    The choices I have in picking out parts, and the ability to modify and create my own box. And we all know Apple's stance when users want to modify their hardware.

    It would be like taking a Painters paintbrushes, canvas and paint supplies, and making him buy a painting from a random gallery made from some schmuck he doesn't even know.
    Ahhh... I gotcha now. That's understandable.

    I think for Apple to get that kind of market share they'd have to do the unthinkable and start releasing OS <Roman Numerals Here> so it'll run on almost any x86/x64 processor. Then we'll get to hear the same things we hear about Microsoft's OS's. Driver issues, crashes (again, drivers), and interface inconsistency.

    iTunesIsEvil on
  • LoneIgadzraLoneIgadzra Registered User regular
    edited December 2007
    I personally have never owned a Mac with all the hardware problems people keep complaining about that will prevent them from buying another Mac. After one year my MacBook Pro's battery was defective, and I talked to a nice dutch lady on Apple's support line after being on hold for maybe ten minutes (they were playing some pretty good music though) and she set me up with a new battery for free.

    I don't understand what all the complaining about Vista is about either. I've used it extensively, both on my own PC when the betas were available for free, and in a comp sci lab. As far as I can tell, it's basically the same thing as XP. There are no increased productivity revelations, nor has anything been broken significantly, and almost all my habits carry over. It feels like the exact same goddamn thing.

    Which is to say, everything mentioned by the OP that's wrong with XP is still there. (And would people please stop saying XP is such a great OS? There are so goddamn many things wrong with it I don't even know where to begin, starting with the attitude that's is a program launcher which has tainted the design of Windows for years. It's just been out for so long that everyone's got it working reasonably well.) Everything that was right about XP is also mostly right about Vista, along with a few under the hood improvements, with a couple caveats.

    The Vista control panel can die in a fire. I don't know who the hell designed it, but they are mentally deficient. At least in XP I eventually learned where everything was. Now everything's been moved, the classic control panels are still hidden under some kind of new-fangled GUI conceived at random, the fucking wizards are still there, and it still isn't any easier to use than XP's monstrosity once you learn it. I mean, I can still find shit eventually and it's not really a huge roadblock, but it's still designed by a committee of monkeys.

    The aero skin is pretty questionable, using, as it does, all kinds of colors and gradients seemingly at random, which just results in me squinting at text more. Why is a maximized window black around the edges? Why does the task panel in an explorer window gradient from like white to black with green in between just to be harder to read? I mean, using the word "random" is an exaggerations, but I can easily say that, from a graphic design standpoint, Vista puts way too much text on severe gradients.

    My least favorite change is the start menu. The new search and pinning thing is fine, I like that, but the OP is right it needs to lose the pain-in-the-ass folder structure already. I'm sick of every program sticking itself in like two company subfolders already. (I think Microsoft should just hardcode Windows to break any software that tries to do this, or install a tray icon without explicit user permission or a startup item, or anything like that.) The problem comes with the quick-access folders that I got used to in XP - namely "My Computer", "My Documents", "Control Panel", etc. It's not the re-naming, it's the icon - or, more accurately, the lack thereof. No, that stupid fading thing at the top of the panel doesn't count because it's not useful for a single goddamn thing. I recognize my start menu shortcuts quickly based on icon. Now I've gotta read the goddamn menu every time.

    Aside from these changes, which were all the result of design decisions by people who are stupid, I don't have a problem with Vista.

    LoneIgadzra on
  • AzioAzio Registered User regular
    edited December 2007
    (I think Microsoft should just hardcode Windows to break any software that tries to do this, or install a tray icon without explicit user permission or a startup item, or anything like that.)
    I agree, but if they tried this then the idiots would just bitch even more.

    Azio on
  • wunderbarwunderbar What Have I Done? Registered User regular
    edited December 2007
    Azio wrote: »
    (I think Microsoft should just hardcode Windows to break any software that tries to do this, or install a tray icon without explicit user permission or a startup item, or anything like that.)
    I agree, but if they tried this then the idiots would just bitch even more.

    Apple got away with breaking everything because they had a small market share. MS killed about 5% of all applications made within the past 7 or 8 years with Vista and look at how people jump all over them.

    wunderbar on
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  • LoneIgadzraLoneIgadzra Registered User regular
    edited December 2007
    wunderbar wrote: »
    Azio wrote: »
    (I think Microsoft should just hardcode Windows to break any software that tries to do this, or install a tray icon without explicit user permission or a startup item, or anything like that.)
    I agree, but if they tried this then the idiots would just bitch even more.

    Apple got away with breaking everything because they had a small market share. MS killed about 5% of all applications made within the past 7 or 8 years with Vista and look at how people jump all over them.

    I don't really get the bitching. If some stupid program doesn't work because the dumbass programmer was using some hack method, then I regard the program and developer as not being worth my time. People have had like two years now to get their programs running in Vista. I suppose I might feel differently if a program I relied on was broken, but the situation is a million times worse on Intel Macs, and I've always been able to find some workaround.

    For the other situations still not covered by that generalization, well tough. I've used Vista in a pretty standard capacity for internet and email and stuff and everything - even old as dirt Windows 98 apps - worked fine. The only thing that didn't work perfectly was my external hard drive, courtesy of UAC. Go figure.

    The PPC > Intel move is still fucking me over more than Vista, but I'm also complaining about it more (but only on Mac forums).

    LoneIgadzra on
  • ZoolanderZoolander Registered User regular
    edited December 2007
    Windows is a business OS as well as a consumer OS. If a business's internal software stopped working because MS decided to change everything a la Apple, they'd be complaining much more effectively than some mac users on some forum ever could. It's in MS's best interest to maintain compatibility as much as possible, otherwise businesses won't give MS another penny. And I think most people, including businesses, couldn't care less if a program installs in two subfolders or installs a tray icon or anything like that. They just want their shit to run.

    Zoolander on
  • LoneIgadzraLoneIgadzra Registered User regular
    edited December 2007
    I know that, I'm just bitching, as per thread title. Clearly, business interests fuck it up for us home hobbyists. I don't want my computer to just run, I want it to run well, and will accept any amount of radical changes to achieve the fastest, most efficient workflow.

    I still maintain some measure of optimism that the OS design that achieves that would also be the one easiest for the average human to use.

    LoneIgadzra on
  • PheezerPheezer Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited December 2007
    Zoolander wrote: »
    Windows is a business OS as well as a consumer OS. If a business's internal software stopped working because MS decided to change everything a la Apple, they'd be complaining much more effectively than some mac users on some forum ever could. It's in MS's best interest to maintain compatibility as much as possible, otherwise businesses won't give MS another penny. And I think most people, including businesses, couldn't care less if a program installs in two subfolders or installs a tray icon or anything like that. They just want their shit to run.

    This is partially true.

    What's really going on is that everyone knows Windows kind of sucks a lot, but no one's willing to take even a thousand desktops and switch them to Linux or replace them with Macs. It's a lot of work and there's a lot of trouble involved.

    The thing is though, if MS ever broke that backwards compatibility all the way and forced people to re-write software for use with Windows 7, no one would bother trying to migrate forward to the next Windows. They'd give in and go with one of the freer more stabler options.

    So MS has an interesting problem: Their greatest weakness is also the only reason they operate in any serious capacity in the business realm, which incidentally is where they make most of their profit. And by most I mean the vast majority.

    Any option that levels the compatibility playing field between Linux and Windows is going to need to come with absolutely killer features and honestly, even if it did I think the cynicism that most people view MS with right now would be enough to convince them to give up and make the switch to something else.

    Basically my point is, you can never expect MS to do something truly daring or new. Not now, not in the future. Not unless they find themselves in the position Apple was when they made the leap to X.

    Pheezer on
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  • DHS OdiumDHS Odium Registered User regular
    edited December 2007
    MS should just make three distinctively different OSes. One for businesses, one for regular consumers, and a server OS.

    The regular consumer one they can scrap all the legacy code that holds shit back, radically revamp the look and feel of it, and take chances on the usability side and UI design. The business version would have support for legacy code and hardware, look like the traditional OS businesses are used to, and include business-y stuff built in.

    DHS Odium on
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  • deadonthestreetdeadonthestreet Registered User regular
    edited December 2007
    DrDizaster wrote: »
    more stabler options.

    Man i really don't get where this comes from. Vista is far and away the most stable operating system I have ever used (and I am typing this on a macbook). I don't believe it has ever frozen or crashed on me.

    deadonthestreet on
  • ZoolanderZoolander Registered User regular
    edited December 2007
    DHS Odium wrote: »
    MS should just make three distinctively different OSes. One for businesses, one for regular consumers, and a server OS.

    The regular consumer one they can scrap all the legacy code that holds shit back, radically revamp the look and feel of it, and take chances on the usability side and UI design. The business version would have support for legacy code and hardware, look like the traditional OS businesses are used to, and include business-y stuff built in.
    I personally think virtualization is a much better option than segmenting the OS's if MS do ever decide they need to do something different. The current-gen Intel processors are wonderful for that. It'll just take like a good part of a decade or so for most people (like 90%+) to have them though.

    And I think Windows stability is just fine at the moment. It's not a show-stopper. I've found Windows Vista to be more stable on my Macbook than OS X. The biggest problem for Windows is security. Keeping a Windows system clear of shit can be a hassle. Vista hasn't changed the situation that much. It's the main reason I use a Mac now.

    Zoolander on
  • LoneIgadzraLoneIgadzra Registered User regular
    edited January 2008
    Zoolander wrote: »
    DHS Odium wrote: »
    MS should just make three distinctively different OSes. One for businesses, one for regular consumers, and a server OS.

    The regular consumer one they can scrap all the legacy code that holds shit back, radically revamp the look and feel of it, and take chances on the usability side and UI design. The business version would have support for legacy code and hardware, look like the traditional OS businesses are used to, and include business-y stuff built in.
    I personally think virtualization is a much better option than segmenting the OS's if MS do ever decide they need to do something different. The current-gen Intel processors are wonderful for that. It'll just take like a good part of a decade or so for most people (like 90%+) to have them though.

    And I think Windows stability is just fine at the moment. It's not a show-stopper. I've found Windows Vista to be more stable on my Macbook than OS X. The biggest problem for Windows is security. Keeping a Windows system clear of shit can be a hassle. Vista hasn't changed the situation that much. It's the main reason I use a Mac now.

    Which is why, IMHO, Windows needs some kind of strict enforcement of what programs can and can't install, whether or not they have admin privileges. This would probably go a long way toward curtailing developer douchebaggery. Currently in Vista, once I click past the UAC (which is in dire need of reform), a program can do whatever the hell it wants.

    LoneIgadzra on
  • MuridenMuriden Registered User regular
    edited January 2008
    Had Vista give me the BSoD this morning. I was stunned. Was watching some videos on Youtube and the screen froze for about 5 seconds then bluescreen.
    Even funnier was the fact that when the machine came back up this greeted me.
    vistabsodrn1.jpg

    I've never had XP BSoD on me, only on machines that I've been working on for other people due to their lack of care.

    Muriden on
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  • zanetheinsanezanetheinsane Registered User regular
    edited January 2008
    I was trying to set up a non-standard home network on my brother's PC. It was Vista Ultimate, straight out of the box and updated. Basically, trying to configure custom settings for both NICs the Network Properties and control panel kept hard-locking the system, required me to restart the computer. Hard-lock as in "press the power button for 8 seconds is your only option".

    Yes, good jorb Vista.

    zanetheinsane on
  • victor_c26victor_c26 Registered User regular
    edited January 2008
    That was most likely cause by a hardware or driver fault. It's time to check your system. Something is either dying or a driver hiccuped while your system was working on a background task.

    victor_c26 on
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  • MuridenMuriden Registered User regular
    edited January 2008
    victor_c26 wrote: »
    That was most likely cause by a hardware or driver fault. It's time to check your system. Something is either dying or a driver hiccuped while your system was working on a background task.

    bought the machine a month ago so I'd like to believe that hardware is not at fault.

    Muriden on
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  • victor_c26victor_c26 Registered User regular
    edited January 2008
    Muriden wrote: »
    victor_c26 wrote: »
    That was most likely cause by a hardware or driver fault. It's time to check your system. Something is either dying or a driver hiccuped while your system was working on a background task.

    bought the machine a month ago so I'd like to believe that hardware is not at fault.

    Except that is the only way you can get a BSoD. Apps don't cause BSoDs, the OS itself can't provoke a BSoD. Only hardware faults and driver incongruity cause BSoDs.

    Like I said, check your hardware and try updating your drivers.

    victor_c26 on
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  • wunderbarwunderbar What Have I Done? Registered User regular
    edited January 2008
    the only time I have ever had XP or Vista bluescreen on me in the past 5 years was 3 months ago when my RAM went bad.

    wunderbar on
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  • bashbash Registered User regular
    edited January 2008
    Microsoft had a segmented OS strategy before, Windows 95 and Windows NT4. Entirely different kernels and driver models but they shared the Win32 API and many high level software stacks like OLE/ActiveX. This turned out to be a huge security nightmare because the security policy of single user Windows 95 didn't mesh well with the multiuser security policy of Windows NT. In order for apps written for Windows 95's flavor of the Win32 API lots of workarounds had to be put in place in Windows NT, some of which still exist in Vista. These sort of workarounds are largely obviated by the design of the .NET framework so more modern .NET apps (C#, managed C++, whatever) are more forward compatible than older Win32/MFC applications. Keep in mind back in the NT4/95 days Microsoft was still planning to role out their Cairo project which would supplant the Win32 environment (that never happened).

    bash on
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  • MorskittarMorskittar Registered User regular
    edited January 2008
    A completely segmented OS scheme also wouldn't support machines like my laptop, which I use with a manged domain roaming profile at work, RASing in from home, or as a media center PC on my home workgroup.

    Morskittar on
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  • Monkey Ball WarriorMonkey Ball Warrior A collection of mediocre hats Seattle, WARegistered User regular
    edited January 2008
    Tycho wrote:
    More than anything else, I think it was installing Vista that made me hate PC gaming. The constant, system-level interruptions, the impaired compatibility, and most of all the savage kick to my framerate's exposed groin made me wonder what precisely in the fucking fuck I was doing screwing around with this onyx monolith. I knew I was just going to have to upgrade eventually (no), and I wanted to see if there was anything to this DirectX 10 thing (no), and I wanted to see what the Windows version of Live was like (a warcrime) so I bit the bullet. I shouldn't have. It was a bullet! That should have been my first clue.

    I loved that.

    Monkey Ball Warrior on
    "I resent the entire notion of a body as an ante and then raise you a generalized dissatisfaction with physicality itself" -- Tycho
  • Salvation122Salvation122 Registered User regular
    edited January 2008
    bash wrote: »
    I think it's clear from adoption rates, media criticism, end user criticism, and even OEM criticism that Vista is not a widely liked OS.
    No, it's clear from adoption rates et al that it's a poorly marketed OS, which has fuck-all bearing on whether or not the software is actually good.

    Salvation122 on
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  • CyvrosCyvros London 1965Registered User regular
    edited January 2008
    I think that Microsoft's heading in the right direction with MinWin - from what I've read, they're planning to retain back-compatibility through virtualisation. Imagine, for the first time in God knows how many years, you could actually have a small and compact Windows install.

    wunderbar wrote: »
    Cyvros wrote: »
    Azio wrote: »
    If anything consumers will begin to adopt Ubuntu, which is a far more impressive operating system considering how immature it is, and given a few years it could become very successful the budget market (although not likely).

    I'm wavering off-topic, but there is Everex's budget gPC (which runs the Ubuntu-based gOS). Underneath Enlightenment, it's more-or-less exactly the same Ubuntu, and with the Everex line expanding, it could maybe possibly start making a dent in the market for those who just use computers for the basics.

    Except for the fact that PC got universally panned as pretty much being a piece of shit, even when it's price tag was factored in?

    I'm sorry, anyone who thinks that desktop linux will hit mainstream before Mac is totally fooling themselves. Mac is already on the verge of mainstream. 99% of the population doesnt' even know what linux is. While pretty much everyone in my family has asked me within the past year if it is worth getting a Mac. I don't always say yes, and I tell them the pros and cons of owning a mac, and let them make their own decision. Most ended up with a PC, but only because of cost. If apple would only cut their prices, and I'm talking a somewhat significant cut, somewhere around 20% off their computers, they'd sell as fast as iPods. Even with the high prices, the last quarter of their fiscal year they set a record number for number of Apple PC's shipped in 3 months in the 20+ year history of the company.

    Well, so far, I've only seen good reviews (with the exception of those who wonder why Windows apps won't install).

    Hell, I'm not saying that Linux will hit the mainstream before Mac. Just look at the usage numbers (I can't find them at the moment) - and Mac sales are increasing, too.

    Cyvros on
    Cy turned out to be much better in person.
  • Monkey Ball WarriorMonkey Ball Warrior A collection of mediocre hats Seattle, WARegistered User regular
    edited January 2008
    bash wrote: »
    I think it's clear from adoption rates, media criticism, end user criticism, and even OEM criticism that Vista is not a widely liked OS.
    No, it's clear from adoption rates et al that it's a poorly marketed OS, which has fuck-all bearing on whether or not the software is actually good.

    The fact that anyone actually pays any attention to marketing still bothers me on a very fundamental level.

    I would like to think people make decisions like this based on experience, word-of-mouth, and informed opinion from respectable, unbiased sources.

    I know this isn't actually true, but I can dream.

    Monkey Ball Warrior on
    "I resent the entire notion of a body as an ante and then raise you a generalized dissatisfaction with physicality itself" -- Tycho
  • BroloBrolo Broseidon Lord of the BroceanRegistered User regular
    edited January 2008
    bash wrote: »
    I think it's clear from adoption rates, media criticism, end user criticism, and even OEM criticism that Vista is not a widely liked OS.
    No, it's clear from adoption rates et al that it's a poorly marketed OS, which has fuck-all bearing on whether or not the software is actually good.

    The fact that anyone actually pays any attention to marketing still bothers me on a very fundamental level.

    I would like to think people make decisions like this based on experience, word-of-mouth, and informed opinion from respectable, unbiased sources.

    I know this isn't actually true, but I can dream.

    word of mouth = advertising for a lot of users

    GetaMac_qjpreviewth.jpg

    hmm, seems Vista has a lot of spyware

    Brolo on
  • ArrathArrath Registered User regular
    edited January 2008
    While it may seem a small gripe against Vista it still anoys me. Vista cannot deal a good game of solitare. I just did 5 games on my XP box and 5 on my Vista laptop. I won 4 of 5 on xp, the 5th was unwinable. On Vista I won 1 of 5, the other 4 were unwinable.

    "lol solitare play a real game" I would if Vista had space pinball :( Solitare is a good fallback/time waster in certain situations.

    Arrath on
    cj iwakura wrote:
    Making for Oregon is suicide, as DOS games have shown.
  • bashbash Registered User regular
    edited January 2008
    bash wrote: »
    I think it's clear from adoption rates, media criticism, end user criticism, and even OEM criticism that Vista is not a widely liked OS.
    No, it's clear from adoption rates et al that it's a poorly marketed OS, which has fuck-all bearing on whether or not the software is actually good.

    Wait, the general bad reception of Vista in multiple venues is a marketing problem? Microsoft pushed their Vista marketing pretty hard: their Wow campaign, the "Speechless" campaign, "Certified for Windows Vista" badging, "Games for Windows" badging, lots of print ads, their ill-conceived laptops for bloggers campaign, as well as institutional pushes for businesses and schools. Despite these marketing schemes dislike for Vista is all over the web. Vista's got strong marketing but many users also have just as strong a dislike for it. No sooner does Vista start getting widely panned by the press than Microsoft starts talking up the still vaporware Windows 7. It's kind of sad that people dislike your current product so much they can only hope that your next product isn't quite as bad.

    bash on
    comi-sig1.jpg
  • smallmouthsmallmouth Registered User regular
    edited January 2008
    Arrath wrote: »
    While it may seem a small gripe against Vista it still anoys me. Vista cannot deal a good game of solitare. I just did 5 games on my XP box and 5 on my Vista laptop. I won 4 of 5 on xp, the 5th was unwinable. On Vista I won 1 of 5, the other 4 were unwinable.

    "lol solitare play a real game" I would if Vista had space pinball :( Solitare is a good fallback/time waster in certain situations.

    If you have Ultimate, try playing Hold 'em. I get crushed every game.

    smallmouth on
    PSN: smh17; Wii code: 0022 6537 1791 3136, Zune: smh17
  • ZoolanderZoolander Registered User regular
    edited January 2008
    bash wrote: »
    It's kind of sad that people dislike your current product so much they can only hope that your next product isn't quite as bad.
    It worked for them before with ME and XP! Although Vista is not nearly as bad as ME is. ME just plain sucked. The main problem with Vista is: why bother? XP works well enough, runs better on old hardware, it's been the most successful OS in history, everyone's used to it, so why bother.

    Zoolander on
  • MorskittarMorskittar Registered User regular
    edited January 2008
    bash wrote: »
    bash wrote: »
    I think it's clear from adoption rates, media criticism, end user criticism, and even OEM criticism that Vista is not a widely liked OS.
    No, it's clear from adoption rates et al that it's a poorly marketed OS, which has fuck-all bearing on whether or not the software is actually good.

    Wait, the general bad reception of Vista in multiple venues is a marketing problem? Microsoft pushed their Vista marketing pretty hard: their Wow campaign, the "Speechless" campaign, "Certified for Windows Vista" badging, "Games for Windows" badging, lots of print ads, their ill-conceived laptops for bloggers campaign, as well as institutional pushes for businesses and schools. Despite these marketing schemes dislike for Vista is all over the web. Vista's got strong marketing but many users also have just as strong a dislike for it. No sooner does Vista start getting widely panned by the press than Microsoft starts talking up the still vaporware Windows 7. It's kind of sad that people dislike your current product so much they can only hope that your next product isn't quite as bad.

    No, Vista has *lots* of marketing, but not strong marketing. When the benefits are under the hood or things like integrated search boxes, who the hell came up with that "Wow!" shit?

    Look at the users on this thread; word-of-mouth is certainly not sparkling, but there are quite a few who actually like the damn thing. How much of the negative feedback has come from those with an agenda? Most of what you hear is absolute bullshit, not based on actual issues. Businesses not adopting due to their 10-year-old LOB apps not working is a valid complaint. The "it's buggy and unstable" mantra is garbage.

    Morskittar on
    snm_sig.jpg
  • Radikal_DreamerRadikal_Dreamer Registered User regular
    edited January 2008
    I'm now a primary OS X user, and I had thought, from word of mouth, that Vista would be garbage, and so did my girlfriend. But, she needed a new computer. She didn't want Vista at all because of the things people were saying about it. But, we got a new computer and it came with Vista. Within a week she loved it. Now she doesn't think she could ever go back to XP. I've personally used her computer and the start menu is sooooooooo much better it isn't funny. My only problem when I use her computer (and I use it decently frequently) is that I can't find programs, settings, etc, in the computer because a lot just aren't where they're used to be. That area is just really funky with changes. We've also yet to encounter any sort of problems with compatibility, but that's mostly because we bought a computer with Vista, so everything should work off the bat.

    Despite being an OS X user, though, I don't think that OS X is the perfect example of user friendliness, either. Installation on OS X is just freaking convoluted. I'm recommending my sister get a mac, and I'm pretty afraid she won't know how to install programs. I'd probably never recommend my parents get one mostly because of that, too. They just wouldn't get it. It threw me for a loop right away, anyway.

    Radikal_Dreamer on
    theincidentsig.jpg
  • Epyon9283Epyon9283 Registered User
    edited January 2008
    Despite being an OS X user, though, I don't think that OS X is the perfect example of user friendliness, either. Installation on OS X is just freaking convoluted. I'm recommending my sister get a mac, and I'm pretty afraid she won't know how to install programs. I'd probably never recommend my parents get one mostly because of that, too. They just wouldn't get it. It threw me for a loop right away, anyway.

    Installation convoluted? You either drag the application to the applications folder, or you double click on the installer. Many apps distributed as a DMG file have a little picture as the background on the finder window that shows you what to do. Installers generally say they're installers.

    I had no problem installing applications on my Mac when first got it.

    Epyon9283 on
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