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Flame on: Windows Vista

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Posts

  • MalkorMalkor Registered User regular
    edited January 2008
    Ronen wrote: »
    bash wrote: »
    I don't want to say "go to porn website" and have everyone within hearing distance turn and look awkwardly at me, especially in public.

    Why are you looking at porn in public?

    Maybe he just can't wait.

    Malkor on
  • ThreepioThreepio New Westminster, BCRegistered User regular
    edited January 2008
    I installed Vista on Christmas Eve.

    The installation was painless - it installed with nearly no interaction from me; this was a vast improvement over previous Windows installations (case in point: I only had to put one disc in with Vista. 95 had 12 floppies!... ahem)

    It identified all of my hardware with relative ease; I ran the installation for my motherboard (onboard audio, LAN) and for my 8800GTS.

    I was very disappointed to see that a year after Vista's launch that my Wireless N adapter didn't come with Vista drivers in the box, that was a bit of a shock. I had to download them onto a memory stick and pop them over. This could have been a show stopper if I were expecting that N adapter to get me online without the use of a second PC.

    I found it interesting that the system didn't default to "on" for Aero. The effects are slick; I can't explain it but they feel very "Windows" in the face of the transitions used by OS X.

    IE7 is a disappointment, as is the new Windows Update; after attempting to use it to download "critical" patches for nearly six hours, I surrendered myself to downloading what I could onto my Mac and transferring them and living without the rest. Browsing is a great deal slower on Vista than it is on OS X (two versions of Firefox side by side, clicking on links - they load up faster on OS X than they do on Vista).

    I installed a few titles, STALKER, the Orange Box, WoW, Company of Heroes. As a front end for Games Vista is acceptably friendly. Performance was excellent (my system shows a rating of 5.6 overall, the only component that's not listed as a 5.9 is the RAM). I haven't dual booted this system with XP so I can't say if the framerate is affected in a detrimental way by the OS, but my frame rates have been solid across the board. I'm not sure if WoW is locked to a 60FPS rate, but I can't get it to go above or below that number by more than a single frame. Portal plays smoothly at 1680x1050 with all the widgets on. Company of Heroes is impressive - there's an entire disc that shipped with my copy that contains the "DirectX 10 patch".

    I installed Vista because I have a DX10 card and the only thing this system will ever be doing is games. It seems alright. I don't think I'd ever use it as a primary OS, but right now it's doing what I need it to do.

    Threepio on
  • Monkey Ball WarriorMonkey Ball Warrior A collection of mediocre hats Seattle, WARegistered User regular
    edited January 2008
    WinXP seems to suck at multitasking and task scheduling. I present:

    (image is 1280px wide)
    multitaskfail.png

    So I take Prime95 on the small FFT torture test, which has "Low" priority in the task manager, and I take the Ati Task Bar Overclocking Rendering Test and run it, while monitoring the temperatures (the red line, "Temp 2" is the CPU.)

    The GPU temp seems to fluctuate wildly around 68-71c.

    At the green arrow I quickly turn off the CPU torture test and minimize Prime95 (that's the dip later on), and the GPU temperature raises to a bit over 72 and stabalizes.

    I believe the GPU sometimes couldn't get attention from the CPU while Prime95 was running, and that's why the temperature wasn't stable. I am blaming XP. Might this be the case? Does Vista fix this?

    Monkey Ball Warrior on
    "I resent the entire notion of a body as an ante and then raise you a generalized dissatisfaction with physicality itself" -- Tycho
  • SushisourceSushisource Registered User
    edited January 2008
    I think your experience with Win Update may be unusual Threepio. So far Vista has flawlessly applied every patch and driver I've needed (sans video card) all by itself with no help from me. I've found that driver support and updates were actually one of the biggest improvements over XP.

    A fresh XP install on a clean new system usually took hours to get running properly with all the drivers and whatnot.

    Vista basically installs itself on a new system as long as you give it a network driver if it doesn't already have one.

    Sushisource on
    Some drugee on Kavinsky's 1986
    kavinskysig.gif
  • AzioAzio Registered User regular
    edited January 2008
    Ronen wrote: »
    Azio wrote: »
    Not a command line in the traditional sense. The idea is there would be a text box at the bottom of the screen and you could just click there and start punching in what you want it to do. Plug in a camera and type "download photos" in the box, and through a combination of context sensitivity and language recognition, it would interpret this as a command to start Photo Gallery and import all the files from the camera you just hooked up. The basic thrust of this is a method of simply telling your computer, in plain English, what you want it to do. No commands or syntax to remember; as long as you tell it what to do in a verbose, contextual manner it would just parse sentences into commands.

    Basically Bill Gates has had a hard-on for language recognition ever since he saw it on Star Trek, and modern technology may soon put this sort of interface within our grasp.

    That's cool, I'm sure we'll get there eventually. You can get similar functionality with OSX's voice commands, right down to assigning a trigger word to tell the computer when to listen to commands (obviously, it should be "Computer!"). Everybody gets a kick out of "Tell me a joke" the first time I show it to them on my Mac Mini in the living room.

    I haven't played around with the voice commands in Vista, though, so I don't know how they compare. I haven't tried it in Leopard, now that I think about it. I should see if it's improved at all.
    Vista speech recognition is about as good as Leopard from what I've seen, but I've never used either one long enough to really train it. OS X is definitely nowhere near what I was describing though.

    Azio on
  • jonxpjonxp [E] PC Security Registered User regular
    edited January 2008
    I think your experience with Win Update may be unusual Threepio. So far Vista has flawlessly applied every patch and driver I've needed (sans video card) all by itself with no help from me. I've found that driver support and updates were actually one of the biggest improvements over XP.

    A fresh XP install on a clean new system usually took hours to get running properly with all the drivers and whatnot.

    Vista basically installs itself on a new system as long as you give it a network driver if it doesn't already have one.

    Yeah, I've had an issue with Windows Update as well, but it's very specific to me as a developer, and Microsoft has been absolutely incredible with working with me to solve it. I've had one guy working with my case for a month or so now (due to my inability to work on this constantly, not his) and it escalated up the support chain super fast. It is my first time dealing with Microsoft support and I'm incredibly surprised. I figured I would be pawned off to some guy in India named "Bob" who tells me to reboot.

    jonxp on
    Every time you write parallel fifths, Bach kills a kitten.
    3DS Friend Code: 2707-1614-5576
    PAX Prime 2014 Buttoneering!
  • RonenRonen Registered User
    edited January 2008
    Azio wrote: »
    Ronen wrote: »
    Azio wrote: »
    Not a command line in the traditional sense. The idea is there would be a text box at the bottom of the screen and you could just click there and start punching in what you want it to do. Plug in a camera and type "download photos" in the box, and through a combination of context sensitivity and language recognition, it would interpret this as a command to start Photo Gallery and import all the files from the camera you just hooked up. The basic thrust of this is a method of simply telling your computer, in plain English, what you want it to do. No commands or syntax to remember; as long as you tell it what to do in a verbose, contextual manner it would just parse sentences into commands.

    Basically Bill Gates has had a hard-on for language recognition ever since he saw it on Star Trek, and modern technology may soon put this sort of interface within our grasp.

    That's cool, I'm sure we'll get there eventually. You can get similar functionality with OSX's voice commands, right down to assigning a trigger word to tell the computer when to listen to commands (obviously, it should be "Computer!"). Everybody gets a kick out of "Tell me a joke" the first time I show it to them on my Mac Mini in the living room.

    I haven't played around with the voice commands in Vista, though, so I don't know how they compare. I haven't tried it in Leopard, now that I think about it. I should see if it's improved at all.
    Vista speech recognition is about as good as Leopard from what I've seen, but I've never used either one long enough to really train it. OS X is definitely nowhere near what I was describing though.

    Oh yeah, well contextual understanding in a voice activated system is years off. The systems in place are good for what they are, but your idea is really the (I daresay) next generation of voice systems.

    Ronen on
    Go play MOTHER3

    or Brawl. 4854.6102.3895 Name: NU..
  • DigDug2000DigDug2000 Registered User
    edited January 2008
    Ronen wrote: »
    Azio wrote: »
    Ronen wrote: »
    Azio wrote: »
    Not a command line in the traditional sense. The idea is there would be a text box at the bottom of the screen and you could just click there and start punching in what you want it to do. Plug in a camera and type "download photos" in the box, and through a combination of context sensitivity and language recognition, it would interpret this as a command to start Photo Gallery and import all the files from the camera you just hooked up. The basic thrust of this is a method of simply telling your computer, in plain English, what you want it to do. No commands or syntax to remember; as long as you tell it what to do in a verbose, contextual manner it would just parse sentences into commands.

    Basically Bill Gates has had a hard-on for language recognition ever since he saw it on Star Trek, and modern technology may soon put this sort of interface within our grasp.

    That's cool, I'm sure we'll get there eventually. You can get similar functionality with OSX's voice commands, right down to assigning a trigger word to tell the computer when to listen to commands (obviously, it should be "Computer!"). Everybody gets a kick out of "Tell me a joke" the first time I show it to them on my Mac Mini in the living room.

    I haven't played around with the voice commands in Vista, though, so I don't know how they compare. I haven't tried it in Leopard, now that I think about it. I should see if it's improved at all.
    Vista speech recognition is about as good as Leopard from what I've seen, but I've never used either one long enough to really train it. OS X is definitely nowhere near what I was describing though.

    Oh yeah, well contextual understanding in a voice activated system is years off. The systems in place are good for what they are, but your idea is really the (I daresay) next generation of voice systems.
    I've always thought it was kinda sad that the old text input Sierra style adventure games died out, because they were working really hard towards something like this. I don't doubt that there were incredibly dumb algorithms running underneath them, but they improved a lot in the one decade where people used them. It seems like work in the area really stalled (at least, from a consumer perspective) once things moved to point and click.

    DigDug2000 on
  • fogeymanfogeyman Registered User
    edited January 2008
    jonxp wrote: »
    I think your experience with Win Update may be unusual Threepio. So far Vista has flawlessly applied every patch and driver I've needed (sans video card) all by itself with no help from me. I've found that driver support and updates were actually one of the biggest improvements over XP.

    A fresh XP install on a clean new system usually took hours to get running properly with all the drivers and whatnot.

    Vista basically installs itself on a new system as long as you give it a network driver if it doesn't already have one.

    Yeah, I've had an issue with Windows Update as well, but it's very specific to me as a developer, and Microsoft has been absolutely incredible with working with me to solve it. I've had one guy working with my case for a month or so now (due to my inability to work on this constantly, not his) and it escalated up the support chain super fast. It is my first time dealing with Microsoft support and I'm incredibly surprised. I figured I would be pawned off to some guy in India named "Bob" who tells me to reboot.
    I recently visited a city in India (Gurgaon) where a bunch of companies (MS included) have help centers. There were...many roped-off buildings.

    fogeyman on
  • Blake TBlake T Registered User regular
    edited January 2008
    I shall post here (I already tried in the computer thread in H/A)

    Vista randomly goes all black screen on me. It also doesn't reset properly it will just hang on a black screen.

    It looks like it's in hibernation or something but you can't get out of it and I have to hit reset.

    Any suggestions?

    Blake T on
  • airtonixairtonix Registered User
    edited January 2008
    Saying windows is easy to use is a bit misleading. Its like saying Japanese is easy for a english person to learn....it just grows on you.

    If all the computers you were ever exposed to only had MacOs of some variant, then windows would not be what you would consider easy to use.

    Hell, I use Ubuntu for anything other than playing wow, and when i touch a Mac, i just want to smash the darn thing.

    Windows machines, i can tolerate due to my exposure to windows machines during my schooling years.

    Which highlights another point : when your younger, your capacity to learn and adjust to new concepts and ways of life is phenomonal.

    That ability will wane with age, faster if you dont exercise it.

    PS: this menu you talk of sounds alot like the several of the menus we can have in ubuntuLinux...cept we have a bit more customization...and our updates come much faster.

    airtonix on
  • FaceballMcDougalFaceballMcDougal Registered User regular
    edited January 2008
    Blaket wrote: »
    I shall post here (I already tried in the computer thread in H/A)

    Vista randomly goes all black screen on me. It also doesn't reset properly it will just hang on a black screen.

    It looks like it's in hibernation or something but you can't get out of it and I have to hit reset.

    Any suggestions?

    control panel > problem reports and solutions

    you may find a clue there

    or right click my computer and manage > event viewer > windows logs > application

    FaceballMcDougal on
    xbl/psn/steam: jabbertrack
  • smallmouthsmallmouth Registered User regular
    edited January 2008
    Blaket wrote: »
    I shall post here (I already tried in the computer thread in H/A)

    Vista randomly goes all black screen on me. It also doesn't reset properly it will just hang on a black screen.

    It looks like it's in hibernation or something but you can't get out of it and I have to hit reset.

    Any suggestions?

    control panel > problem reports and solutions

    you may find a clue there

    or right click my computer and manage > event viewer > windows logs > application

    Did you delete the hibernate cache using disk cleanup? That can also cause weird problems. Here's the MS KB article on how to restore it.

    smallmouth on
    PSN: smh17; Wii code: 0022 6537 1791 3136, Zune: smh17
  • RookRook Registered User regular
    edited January 2008
    smallmouth wrote: »
    Blaket wrote: »
    I shall post here (I already tried in the computer thread in H/A)

    Vista randomly goes all black screen on me. It also doesn't reset properly it will just hang on a black screen.

    It looks like it's in hibernation or something but you can't get out of it and I have to hit reset.

    Any suggestions?

    control panel > problem reports and solutions

    you may find a clue there

    or right click my computer and manage > event viewer > windows logs > application

    Did you delete the hibernate cache using disk cleanup? That can also cause weird problems. Here's the MS KB article on how to restore it.

    You might also want to check your Power Save options and just leave everything so it's powered up all the time.

    Rook on
  • Blake TBlake T Registered User regular
    edited January 2008
    I've found the computer management thingie, and I don't think there are any conflicts. How do you save say the 10 events that lead up to it.

    Here is a screen shot of all the events leading up to the crash.
    Example.jpg

    Just to be clear it can be happen while I am still at the computer typing away, it just looks like a hibernation mode because the screen goes off and all that.

    Blake T on
  • jonxpjonxp [E] PC Security Registered User regular
    edited January 2008
    Blaket wrote: »
    I've found the computer management thingie, and I don't think there are any conflicts. How do you save say the 10 events that lead up to it.

    Here is a screen shot of all the events leading up to the crash.
    Example.jpg

    Just to be clear it can be happen while I am still at the computer typing away, it just looks like a hibernation mode because the screen goes off and all that.

    Are you using an nVidia video card? Is your mouse cursor still visible?

    jonxp on
    Every time you write parallel fifths, Bach kills a kitten.
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  • Monkey Ball WarriorMonkey Ball Warrior A collection of mediocre hats Seattle, WARegistered User regular
    edited January 2008
    With my new hardware (3.1Ghz Athlon X2 and 2gigs of ram), I have decided that overall I like Vista (over XP at least)

    However, it is still a resource hog.

    And it took forever to find the button to kill UAC.

    Monkey Ball Warrior on
    "I resent the entire notion of a body as an ante and then raise you a generalized dissatisfaction with physicality itself" -- Tycho
  • iTunesIsEviliTunesIsEvil Registered User regular
    edited January 2008
    However, it is still a resource hog.

    And it took forever to find the button to kill UAC.
    It's "hogging" so many resources because it's attempting to be smart and pre-load things & stuff & such; also, prettiness.

    I don't understand how people have a difficult time figuring out how to turn off UAC. "User Accounts" => "Turn UAC on or off". Bam! Though I suppose if I were new to Windows I might not know that's a good place to look.

    iTunesIsEvil on
  • ThreepioThreepio New Westminster, BCRegistered User regular
    edited January 2008
    After running Crysis and Company of Heroes in DX10 mode: Vista is worth the hassles from a gaming standpoint.

    Pretty. So very pretty.

    Threepio on
  • Blake TBlake T Registered User regular
    edited January 2008
    jonxp wrote: »
    Blaket wrote: »
    I've found the computer management thingie, and I don't think there are any conflicts. How do you save say the 10 events that lead up to it.

    Here is a screen shot of all the events leading up to the crash.
    Example.jpg

    Just to be clear it can be happen while I am still at the computer typing away, it just looks like a hibernation mode because the screen goes off and all that.

    Are you using an nVidia video card? Is your mouse cursor still visible?

    Yes and no.

    The screen goes jet black and I have to reset.

    I am thinking it may be a dodgy mobo, my Northbridge is running ridiculously hot.

    Blake T on
  • jonxpjonxp [E] PC Security Registered User regular
    edited January 2008
    Blaket wrote: »
    jonxp wrote: »
    Blaket wrote: »
    I've found the computer management thingie, and I don't think there are any conflicts. How do you save say the 10 events that lead up to it.

    Here is a screen shot of all the events leading up to the crash.
    Example.jpg

    Just to be clear it can be happen while I am still at the computer typing away, it just looks like a hibernation mode because the screen goes off and all that.

    Are you using an nVidia video card? Is your mouse cursor still visible?

    Yes and no.

    The screen goes jet black and I have to reset.

    I am thinking it may be a dodgy mobo, my Northbridge is running ridiculously hot.

    Not a bad deduction. I had similar problems when it was a dodgy videocard. I ask about the mouse cursor because I'd heard of a problem with nVidia and Vista where the cursor would show, and nothing else.

    jonxp on
    Every time you write parallel fifths, Bach kills a kitten.
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  • Blake TBlake T Registered User regular
    edited January 2008
    Ok thanks for your help anyway.

    New question, is this a typical response for a computer overheating, just going to a black screen? Also when I reboot it I get the "Windows did not shut down correctly/start in safe mode" screen, is this typical of an overheated Mobo?

    Blake T on
  • prawnstar69prawnstar69 Registered User
    edited January 2008
    What the crap.

    I installed Vista 64-bit Home Premium today, everything's going well, except for the odd error message when installing things (MSN Messenger and ATi Cat drivers gave me errors, but they installed anyway).

    I just tried to move a folder of music from My Documents to the Music folder and it won't let me. It says I need permission to do so. My user is an Admin and I clicked "continue" when it warned me about moving the files.

    What gives?

    prawnstar69 on
  • PeewiPeewi I'm a cube now Registered User regular
    edited January 2008
    What the crap.

    I installed Vista 64-bit Home Premium today, everything's going well, except for the odd error message when installing things (MSN Messenger and ATi Cat drivers gave me errors, but they installed anyway).

    I just tried to move a folder of music from My Documents to the Music folder and it won't let me. It says I need permission to do so. My user is an Admin and I clicked "continue" when it warned me about moving the files.

    What gives?

    Why would you install an outdated version of Messenger? I'm pretty sure Vista has Windows Live Messenger preinstalled.

    Peewi on
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  • prawnstar69prawnstar69 Registered User
    edited January 2008
    Peewi wrote: »
    What the crap.

    I installed Vista 64-bit Home Premium today, everything's going well, except for the odd error message when installing things (MSN Messenger and ATi Cat drivers gave me errors, but they installed anyway).

    I just tried to move a folder of music from My Documents to the Music folder and it won't let me. It says I need permission to do so. My user is an Admin and I clicked "continue" when it warned me about moving the files.

    What gives?

    Why would you install an outdated version of Messenger? I'm pretty sure Vista has Windows Live Messenger preinstalled.

    It comes with a link to "Download Windows Live Messenger". It didn't come pre-installed for me.

    prawnstar69 on
  • FaceballMcDougalFaceballMcDougal Registered User regular
    edited January 2008
    Right click the parent folders you are having issues with and set permissions accordingly... though I don't know why you'd be having that problem.

    FaceballMcDougal on
    xbl/psn/steam: jabbertrack
  • prawnstar69prawnstar69 Registered User
    edited January 2008
    Right click the parent folders you are having issues with and set permissions accordingly... though I don't know why you'd be having that problem.

    After more Googling I think it might be to do with some security update and it affecting moving mp3 files, what I read was pretty vague.

    I'll try what you suggested though, thanks.

    prawnstar69 on
  • BroloBrolo Broseidon Lord of the BroceanRegistered User regular
    edited January 2008
    Yeah, my messenger (on XP) also has some strange issue with trying to delete MP3 files. You can't click on them in the messenger pop-up, instead you have to navigate to the file in explorer and make a separate copy of it in another location.

    Brolo on
  • Fatty McBeardoFatty McBeardo Registered User regular
    edited January 2008
    I have been using Windows since version 3.0 shipped.

    I am particularly fond of Win95, Win2k Workstation, Win2k3 Server, and the venerable WinXP Pro. Especially the latter. I think WinXP stands tall as being one of the best all around desktop OS ever released. Particularly after SP1 (or was it SP2?) came out and improved the wifi support so much.

    I am by no means a MSFT hater.

    That being said.

    Vista is the biggest, rankest piece of shit I have ever had the misfortune of encountering.

    My dad gave me his Vaio VGN-NR120E because he hated Vista so much. I thought he was just exaggerating. Oh no, no. It's absofuckinglutely awful. I can't believe this POS is from the same company that released XP. Vista is painfully, agonizingly slow on a core duo machine with a gig of RAM, even with all of the Aero crap disabled. The interface is counter-intuitive, especially to one who has become accustomed to WinXP/Win2k3 Server over the years. It just.. it sucks. I mean, god damn, Microsoft. Vista is worse than Windows ME in that ME was nothing more than stopgap measure from the beginning. Vista is supposed to be the future! No. No, no.

    What concerns me even more is if Vista is this terrible, what's Server 2008 like? I'm literally too scared to download the beta and see for myself, because if it's as bad as Vista then I'm going to have a serious problem with doing my job.

    Fatty McBeardo on
  • MalkorMalkor Registered User regular
    edited January 2008
    Really?

    Malkor on
  • jonxpjonxp [E] PC Security Registered User regular
    edited January 2008
    As I said before...most people's complaints are that Vista is too different. I agree that it is very different, but I disagree that it is for the worse. If people were to have Vista be their first OS they would feel a step backwards in usability when going to XP. There are a lot of UI touches that make more sense by default in Vista that are very different from XP. This bugs people used to a certain way of doing things.

    Also, people have had varying experiences with speed. Most of the folks that have had good experiences with it aren't going to proclaim loudly in internet forums about it, while everyone who has had an issue will.

    jonxp on
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  • Monkey Ball WarriorMonkey Ball Warrior A collection of mediocre hats Seattle, WARegistered User regular
    edited January 2008
    Disableing Aero isn't going to make it any faster. The entire window manager, even down to the Classic Theme, is directx now. Changing the look does absolutely nothing to improve performance.

    You really shouldn't run vista on less than 2GB of ram (ESPECIALLY on integrated graphics were that ram is also the graphics ram). It's utterly ridiculous, but thankfully ram is so cheap right now that it's not really a setback unless you have a laptop. (and I am adamantly anti-laptop)

    Now I'm going to quote something I wrote somewhere else that I see as being somewhat more of an issue:
    I turned off UAC because I said I knew how to not infect my computer with stuff.

    I made this statement under the assumption that Vista would behave in a sensible, predictable manner with UAC turned off (that is to say, like XP).

    I was WRONG.

    Apparently, Vista will unzip zip files and look inside, presumably so it can populate the little folder icon with some little graphic of the contents, and it will do this automatically whenever you navigate to the folder it is in.

    I had downloaded a zip file from a disreputable source and navigated to the folder it was in to scan it with an Antivirus to see if it was legit. When I did this, Vista unziped the file and, lo and behold, it had a trojan in it and it loaded into memory and crashed the antivirus.

    At this point I shut down Vista, booted to XP, and cleaned it from there. So no damage done, but still.

    WHY WOULD IT DO THAT BY DEFAULT?

    I'm not even entirely convinced that UAC would have prevented this (though in theory it should).

    I still have it turned off. I'm just going to have to be very careful from now on not to navigate to the location of suspect zip files.

    Which is ridiculous.

    Monkey Ball Warrior on
    "I resent the entire notion of a body as an ante and then raise you a generalized dissatisfaction with physicality itself" -- Tycho
  • MalkorMalkor Registered User regular
    edited January 2008
    I did not know this. This is an interesting development.

    Malkor on
  • jonxpjonxp [E] PC Security Registered User regular
    edited January 2008
    Disableing Aero isn't going to make it any faster. The entire window manager, even down to the Classic Theme, is directx now. Changing the look does absolutely nothing to improve performance.

    You really shouldn't run vista on less than 2GB of ram. It's utterly ridiculous, but thankfully ram is so cheap right now that it's not really a setback unless you have a laptop. (and I am adamantly anti-laptop)

    Now I'm going to quote something I wrote somewhere else that I see as being somewhat more of an issue:
    I turned off UAC because I said I knew how to not infect my computer with stuff.

    I made this statement under the assumption that Vista would behave in a sensible, predictable manner with UAC turned off (that is to say, like XP).

    I was WRONG.

    Apparently, Vista will unzip zip files and look inside, presumably so it can populate the little folder icon with some little graphic of the contents, and it will do this automatically whenever you navigate to the folder it is in.

    I had downloaded a zip file from a disreputable source and navigated to the folder it was in to scan it with an Antivirus to see if it was legit. When I did this, Vista unziped the file and, lo and behold, it had a trojan in it and it loaded into memory and crashed the antivirus.

    At this point I shut down Vista, booted to XP, and cleaned it from there. So no damage done, but still.

    WHY WOULD IT DO THAT BY DEFAULT?

    I'm not even entirely convinced that UAC would have prevented this (though in theory it should).

    I still have it turned off. I'm just going to have to be very careful from now on not to navigate to the location of suspect zip files.

    Which is ridiculous.

    XP does that too, by default. As does OSX, and a few other OSes.

    jonxp on
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  • Monkey Ball WarriorMonkey Ball Warrior A collection of mediocre hats Seattle, WARegistered User regular
    edited January 2008
    jonxp wrote: »
    Disableing Aero isn't going to make it any faster. The entire window manager, even down to the Classic Theme, is directx now. Changing the look does absolutely nothing to improve performance.

    You really shouldn't run vista on less than 2GB of ram. It's utterly ridiculous, but thankfully ram is so cheap right now that it's not really a setback unless you have a laptop. (and I am adamantly anti-laptop)

    Now I'm going to quote something I wrote somewhere else that I see as being somewhat more of an issue:
    I turned off UAC because I said I knew how to not infect my computer with stuff.

    I made this statement under the assumption that Vista would behave in a sensible, predictable manner with UAC turned off (that is to say, like XP).

    I was WRONG.

    Apparently, Vista will unzip zip files and look inside, presumably so it can populate the little folder icon with some little graphic of the contents, and it will do this automatically whenever you navigate to the folder it is in.

    I had downloaded a zip file from a disreputable source and navigated to the folder it was in to scan it with an Antivirus to see if it was legit. When I did this, Vista unziped the file and, lo and behold, it had a trojan in it and it loaded into memory and crashed the antivirus.

    At this point I shut down Vista, booted to XP, and cleaned it from there. So no damage done, but still.

    WHY WOULD IT DO THAT BY DEFAULT?

    I'm not even entirely convinced that UAC would have prevented this (though in theory it should).

    I still have it turned off. I'm just going to have to be very careful from now on not to navigate to the location of suspect zip files.

    Which is ridiculous.

    XP does that too, by default. As does OSX, and a few other OSes.

    I'm pretty sure XP will not unzip a zip file just by being in the same directory as the file. I'm pretty sure you'd have to click on the file and open it.

    Monkey Ball Warrior on
    "I resent the entire notion of a body as an ante and then raise you a generalized dissatisfaction with physicality itself" -- Tycho
  • jonxpjonxp [E] PC Security Registered User regular
    edited January 2008
    jonxp wrote: »
    Disableing Aero isn't going to make it any faster. The entire window manager, even down to the Classic Theme, is directx now. Changing the look does absolutely nothing to improve performance.

    You really shouldn't run vista on less than 2GB of ram. It's utterly ridiculous, but thankfully ram is so cheap right now that it's not really a setback unless you have a laptop. (and I am adamantly anti-laptop)

    Now I'm going to quote something I wrote somewhere else that I see as being somewhat more of an issue:
    I turned off UAC because I said I knew how to not infect my computer with stuff.

    I made this statement under the assumption that Vista would behave in a sensible, predictable manner with UAC turned off (that is to say, like XP).

    I was WRONG.

    Apparently, Vista will unzip zip files and look inside, presumably so it can populate the little folder icon with some little graphic of the contents, and it will do this automatically whenever you navigate to the folder it is in.

    I had downloaded a zip file from a disreputable source and navigated to the folder it was in to scan it with an Antivirus to see if it was legit. When I did this, Vista unziped the file and, lo and behold, it had a trojan in it and it loaded into memory and crashed the antivirus.

    At this point I shut down Vista, booted to XP, and cleaned it from there. So no damage done, but still.

    WHY WOULD IT DO THAT BY DEFAULT?

    I'm not even entirely convinced that UAC would have prevented this (though in theory it should).

    I still have it turned off. I'm just going to have to be very careful from now on not to navigate to the location of suspect zip files.

    Which is ridiculous.

    XP does that too, by default. As does OSX, and a few other OSes.

    I'm pretty sure XP will not unzip a zip file just by being in the same directory as the file. I'm pretty sure you'd have to click on the file and open it.

    It doesn't "unzip" it, it will open it to view the files and generate thumbnails.

    jonxp on
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  • PeewiPeewi I'm a cube now Registered User regular
    edited January 2008
    jonxp wrote: »
    jonxp wrote: »
    Disableing Aero isn't going to make it any faster. The entire window manager, even down to the Classic Theme, is directx now. Changing the look does absolutely nothing to improve performance.

    You really shouldn't run vista on less than 2GB of ram. It's utterly ridiculous, but thankfully ram is so cheap right now that it's not really a setback unless you have a laptop. (and I am adamantly anti-laptop)

    Now I'm going to quote something I wrote somewhere else that I see as being somewhat more of an issue:
    I turned off UAC because I said I knew how to not infect my computer with stuff.

    I made this statement under the assumption that Vista would behave in a sensible, predictable manner with UAC turned off (that is to say, like XP).

    I was WRONG.

    Apparently, Vista will unzip zip files and look inside, presumably so it can populate the little folder icon with some little graphic of the contents, and it will do this automatically whenever you navigate to the folder it is in.

    I had downloaded a zip file from a disreputable source and navigated to the folder it was in to scan it with an Antivirus to see if it was legit. When I did this, Vista unziped the file and, lo and behold, it had a trojan in it and it loaded into memory and crashed the antivirus.

    At this point I shut down Vista, booted to XP, and cleaned it from there. So no damage done, but still.

    WHY WOULD IT DO THAT BY DEFAULT?

    I'm not even entirely convinced that UAC would have prevented this (though in theory it should).

    I still have it turned off. I'm just going to have to be very careful from now on not to navigate to the location of suspect zip files.

    Which is ridiculous.

    XP does that too, by default. As does OSX, and a few other OSes.

    I'm pretty sure XP will not unzip a zip file just by being in the same directory as the file. I'm pretty sure you'd have to click on the file and open it.

    It doesn't "unzip" it, it will open it to view the files and generate thumbnails.

    That's weird. In XP I never ever see thumbnails on anything inside .zips.

    Peewi on
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  • Monkey Ball WarriorMonkey Ball Warrior A collection of mediocre hats Seattle, WARegistered User regular
    edited January 2008
    You have to uncompress a zip to see what is inside. It isn't a folder, it's an archive.

    ... Is it unreasonable to expect an OS to leave an archive, you know, archived, until I ask it to open it? I don't want it to view the files inside if that's going to take more than "dir". At the very least it could incur a signigant performance penalty when navigating to a folder with numerous, heavily compressed zip files (not that MS seems to care about performance).

    It's not like I actually use XP's or Vista built-in unziper anyway. That's what 7-zip is for.

    And now I can't seem to get it to thumbnail pictures inside a zip. So I still have no idea how the trojan got out of the zip. I have to presume Vista unziped it for some reason, since it treats these things like folders (even to the degree of actually calling it a folder). So either this function is broken, or Vista does this for no reason whatsoever (indexing? I can't begin to imagine).

    Monkey Ball Warrior on
    "I resent the entire notion of a body as an ante and then raise you a generalized dissatisfaction with physicality itself" -- Tycho
  • MorskittarMorskittar Registered User regular
    edited January 2008
    Vista runs fine on 1gb, by the way. I ran it on a single core with 1gb at work for nine months before upping the RAM; it was no worse than XP with one gig. It wasn't a bloatware and shit-infested OEM install though.

    Has anyone experienced the legendary slowness on a non-OEM install? Without using antivirus? Over more than a cusory few-day test?

    Morskittar on
  • FaceballMcDougalFaceballMcDougal Registered User regular
    edited January 2008
    You have to uncompress a zip to see what is inside. It isn't a folder, it's an archive.

    ... Is it unreasonable to expect an OS to leave an archive, you know, archived, until I ask it to open it? I don't want it to view the files inside if that's going to take more than "dir". At the very least it could incur a signigant performance penalty when navigating to a folder with numerous, heavily compressed zip files (not that MS seems to care about performance).

    It's not like I actually use XP's or Vista built-in unziper anyway. That's what 7-zip is for.

    And now I can't seem to get it to thumbnail pictures inside a zip. So I still have no idea how the trojan got out of the zip. I have to presume Vista unziped it for some reason, since it treats these things like folders (even to the degree of actually calling it a folder). So either this function is broken, or Vista does this for no reason whatsoever (indexing? I can't begin to imagine).

    it depends on the trojan btw... but there are many that just have to be viewed in a folder to infect you

    UAC would have prevented your problem yes

    file compression is, by the way, all over your hard drive in various forms

    .zip is just a higher level and a way to package up multiple files... you can open any compressed files that an OS supports without having to run a specific app to uncompress

    as an example I just had a 27mb database open that is currently sitting at 880k with 98% compression

    FaceballMcDougal on
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