I just wanted to chime in about X, as I did some digging around awhile back (and it was more than a year ago so I can't produce links although I remember quite a few were linked or posted on erowid, so someone can look there).
Basically in reality the chemical effect is of an extremely potent and useful anti-depressant with low side effects. The effective dose is fairly low (around 5-10mg iirc). The dosage to get you high is 2 to 3 times that amount (or around 20-30mg). Now the average street dosage is around 4-10 times that amount (between 80-200mg). At that point you do have the potential to overwhelm your brain, especially if you continue that dosage regularly, but it of course depends on the individual as most things do.
And the main problem and dangers come from a) frequent use of high dosages (as with anything), and b) even more dangerous the fact that it is often impure on the street as others have mentioned.
I remember going through a list of a year's crop of ecstacy tablet distributions' test results, and quite a few weren't even X at all. For instance off the top of my head one consisted of only 200mg of DXM, which is a hell of a lot different than MDMA.
Mathieu, this thread is about ending (or not ending) prohibition of marijuana.
The consensus here seems to be that it should be ended. You are kinda disagreeing, but you are not providing any reasoning for it. You are saying (I paraphrase) "its illegal, there must be a reason for it", "society doesn't like smoking", "protect your health" and so on.
Now, several people here are essentially dismissing you as a troll due to your imprecise arguments, but I'm resisting that. I feel very strongly on the subject, and essentially I will set out to convert you to my way of thinking on it via intelligent debate.
I think marijuana should be legal for the following reasons:
1) Marijuana does not have health effects negative enough to warrent the laws against it
2) Prohibition is more damaging than the drug itself. Billions of dollars spent, huge police resources used, thousands and thousands of people in jail, loss of respect for authority for enforcing such rediculous laws.
3) Prohibition is totally ineffective. Marijuana usage rates continue to climb (with no adverse effects on society) despite the huge resources being applied against it. Laws are not stopping people from using the drug.
4) Current laws are hypocritical, with dangerous drugs like alcohol and nicotine being freely available, while the comparatively benign weed is illegal. Alcohol and nicotine are legal because people recognize prohibition against them is infeasible. It is infeasible for the same reasons marijuana prohibition is failing.
5) In some places (ie The Netherlands) marijuana is essentially legal, and their society has not been irreparably damaged because of it. Legalization is a viable alternative.
I just pulled those arguments off the top of my head, it pretty well covers my stance on the issue. So, Mathieu, I challenge you to a friendly debate. Please pick apart my arguments as best you can, tell my why I am wrong about legalization, and why you are right, that it should not be legalized. Please back yourself up as much as possible (weed is unhealthy? link? etc), I sure will.
I'll be honest with you, I value much more stuff like skydiving than recreationnal drugs. You know, it's for real, you're not just stoned or high, sitting on your couch. I don't like the idea of playing with my brain using chemicals or whatever.... anyway, that's the way I see things. But eh, you must admit that it takes more guts to jump of a plane than eating mushrooms, it's clearly something else and probably that the experience is much more rewarding. And I believe it's pretty safe also.
Skydiving is a perfectly safe activity which tricks your brain into thinking that you are in great danger, triggering the release of all kinds of happy-good-times chemicals.
It's more real than drugs by a technicality.
Skydiving is also more potentially dangerous than pot, even when the jumper is competent and is being fully supervised by a trained professional - the consequences of a bong failing are not quite as high as those of a parachute failing. Skydiving is also much more expensive, and is harder to accomplish on a semi-regular basis than getting baked (unless you own your own plane and airstrip).
Has anyone posted a link to that Walk Hard clip in this thread yet? No? Here you go.
I'll be honest with you, I value much more stuff like skydiving than recreationnal drugs. You know, it's for real, you're not just stoned or high, sitting on your couch. I don't like the idea of playing with my brain using chemicals or whatever.... anyway, that's the way I see things. But eh, you must admit that it takes more guts to jump of a plane than eating mushrooms, it's clearly something else and probably that the experience is much more rewarding. And I believe it's pretty safe also.
Skydiving is a perfectly safe activity which tricks your brain into thinking that you are in great danger, triggering the release of all kinds of happy-good-times chemicals.
It's more real than drugs by a technicality.
Skydiving is also more potentially dangerous than pot, even when the jumper is competent and is being fully supervised by a trained professional - the consequences of a bong failing are not quite as high as those of a parachute failing. Skydiving is also much more expensive, and is harder to accomplish on a semi-regular basis than getting baked (unless you own your own plane and airstrip).
And good luck trying to play videogames while skydiving...
I'll be honest with you, I value much more stuff like skydiving than recreationnal drugs. You know, it's for real, you're not just stoned or high, sitting on your couch. I don't like the idea of playing with my brain using chemicals or whatever.... anyway, that's the way I see things. But eh, you must admit that it takes more guts to jump of a plane than eating mushrooms, it's clearly something else and probably that the experience is much more rewarding. And I believe it's pretty safe also.
The risk of dying from ecstasy is less than the risk of dying from skydiving, if not less. No-one has ever died from weed. Few from mushrooms. So why is skydiving legal? There's nothing more or less real about it, and you're not just sat on your couch either.
And I don't know about taking more or less guts to jump out of a plane - one is putting your body through serious physical stress, the other is putting your brain through mental stress. Some people are more inclined to do one than the other. Also you wouldn't be questioning bravery if you'd ever tasted them :P And in regards to "reward", well the way I see it you can either jump out of a plane and shit yourself scared, or you can unlock the deepest parts of your mind which would otherwise remain locked to you forever and make some startling revelations about both yourself and the universe in general. You'll also experience loss of ego which is nigh-impossible without drugs. Plus hallucinations are cool. So, reward. I've been rewarded.
I have some friends that smoke pot and all, but I just never really understood WHY. Not until recently had I even drank and that was because I lost a bet.
Why? Because it's fun. Now tell me why not. Until you can do that everything else you said is just drivel.
Seems like a "stupid question/stupid answer" kind of thing.
But I'll try to answer that question... why not smoking pot? Maybe because it's illegal? I know it's a bit silly, y'know... obeying the law, that makes no sense.
But seriously, it's still a valid reason. So let me ask a "stupid" question: why do you keep doing something that the law prohibits you to do?
I don't see drug use as being merely "fun." (BTW, I don't smoke pot at all but I'll freely admit to using other substances.) To me, the term "recreational" is a misnomer. It's not simply recreation for me, any more than sex or really good music is recreation.
Actually, sometimes drug use isn't fun at all. I've had psychedelic trips that were downright psychologically agonizing. They weren't any more fun than volunteering on a suicide hotline is "fun." But I'm glad I did it.
I also don't use recreational drugs often. With the exception of alcohol, I do recreational drugs three or four times a year. Yet I consider it a very important aspect of my life, one that I am not going to give up readily. I would not, for instance, seriously date somebody who was straight-edge.
Drug use is a personally, spiritually enriching aspect of my life. I learn things about myself. I learn things about other people. I put the problems (and the blessings) of my life in a new perspective. I encounter a range of experiences that I would never encounter otherwise; experiences of incredible intensity, of sublime meaning, of deep introspection, of heartbreaking intimacy, of unbearable pain, of worldshattering pleasure.
I do it for all the same reasons that people listen to music, make art, help the homeless, travel, go to church, have sex, fall in love, have kids. Every time I do it, my soul grows a little bit more. None of these things are "necessary" in the terms of putting food on your plate or paying your rent, but these experiences - or experiences like them - are important elements of living a full human life. If I have to explain why, you'll never understand.
I feel pity for the people who seek to keep it illegal.
Feral on
every person who doesn't like an acquired taste always seems to think everyone who likes it is faking it. it should be an official fallacy.
Jesus, I don't understand people who have this attitude 'well the laws MUST be there for a reason... I guess we should just do what we are supposed to.'
Actually thats not fair. I do understand it, I just think its such a bad approach to life.
Jesus, I don't understand people who have this attitude 'well the laws MUST be there for a reason... I guess we should just do what we are supposed to.'
Actually thats not fair. I do understand it, I just think its such a bad approach to life.
It's kinda true, but not the way the poster intends, I think.
There are always REASONS for laws, but they're not always good ones. And they're not always really what they claim to be - they're rarely for safety.
Laws against marijuana? Heavily lobbied by the nylon and cotton industries, as they don't want hemp coming back as competition.
Laws against riding in a car without a seatbelt/not wearing a helmet on a bike? Lobbied by insurance companies who are tired of paying out because idiots don't protect themselves adequately. I'm never going to not wear a seatbelt and won't drive someone who won't, but if I'm an adult it should be my own damn choice.
Laws against speeding? Meant to increase funds from ticketing due to unintuitive legal limit changes. Speed limits are not calculated for safety, they're calculated to get the most revenue from people who break them without completely destroying the ability of the city roads to serve their function.
These laws are upheld by voters who just think "yay, I'm protecting people!" and don't stop to think about personal freedom and greed.
Laws against marijuana? Heavily lobbied by the nylon and cotton industries, as they don't want hemp coming back as competition.
Yeah pretty much.
Laws against riding in a car without a seatbelt/not wearing a helmet on a bike? Lobbied by insurance companies who are tired of paying out because idiots don't protect themselves adequately. I'm never going to not wear a seatbelt and won't drive someone who won't, but if I'm an adult it should be my own damn choice.
And the fact that people who don't wear seatbelts not only are a greater risk of death and injury to themselves, but to other people as well.
Laws against riding in a car without a seatbelt/not wearing a helmet on a bike? Lobbied by insurance companies who are tired of paying out because idiots don't protect themselves adequately. I'm never going to not wear a seatbelt and won't drive someone who won't, but if I'm an adult it should be my own damn choice.
And the fact that people who don't wear seatbelts not only are a greater risk of death and injury to themselves, but to other people as well.
Wait, what? Are you worried about someone's flying body killing someone else here, or what?
What is definitely true is that traffic injuries pose significant costs to society in the form of first responders, medical care, and other issues, so if you decide to be stupid on a highway, it is most definitely not just your own damn choice.
And the fact that people who don't wear seatbelts not only are a greater risk of death and injury to themselves, but to other people as well.
Wait, what? Are you worried about someone's flying body killing someone else here, or what?
What is definitely true is that traffic injuries pose significant costs to society in the form of first responders, medical care, and other issues, so if you decide to be stupid on a highway, it is most definitely not just your own damn choice.
Your ability to survive a minor accident can determine whether it becomes a major accident.
So, the consensus here seems to be that current weed laws are stupid.
My question is, what do we do about it?
Some progress has been made, someone put up a link about Seatle, or somewhere, delcaring weed to be the lowest priority for cops. Vancouver wants to legalize it (the mayor has said so) but the city lacks the authority to make its own laws. Up here in Canada there was a brief move towards decriminalization, but when Harper and his Conservatives got into power they squashed that idea, getting "tough on crime" instead.
So whats to be done? I've been thinking about organizing a demonstration in my area. Not really sure what form it would take, a civil-disobedience style "smoke-in" would be fun, but of course illegal. Standard demonstrations are both more boring and generally harder to get people interested in.
So D&D, how do we convince regular people, and more importantly politicians, that ending marijuana prohibition is a good thing?
People are working on it and there are multiple cities and I think a state that decided if the feds want it to be illegal then they can patrol the streets, but otherwise not a lot unless you want to somehow help out the above site.
People are working on it and there are multiple cities and I think a state that decided if the feds want it to be illegal then they can patrol the streets, but otherwise not a lot unless you want to somehow help out the above site.
Yeah I know about NORML, and its a good orginization, but that doesn't allow me, myself to do anything, and it doesn't effect anything where I live. There certainly havn't been any NORML organized (or any other sort) of pro-weed events in my city.
What city is that? And regardless, you don't need events to do anything about it. You can just talk to people about it when it comes up and try to change a few minds.
I'll be honest with you, I value much more stuff like skydiving than recreationnal drugs. You know, it's for real, you're not just stoned or high, sitting on your couch. I don't like the idea of playing with my brain using chemicals or whatever.... anyway, that's the way I see things. But eh, you must admit that it takes more guts to jump of a plane than eating mushrooms, it's clearly something else and probably that the experience is much more rewarding. And I believe it's pretty safe also.
Skydiving is a perfectly safe activity which tricks your brain into thinking that you are in great danger, triggering the release of all kinds of happy-good-times chemicals.
It's more real than drugs by a technicality.
Skydiving is also more potentially dangerous than pot, even when the jumper is competent and is being fully supervised by a trained professional - the consequences of a bong failing are not quite as high as those of a parachute failing. Skydiving is also much more expensive, and is harder to accomplish on a semi-regular basis than getting baked (unless you own your own plane and airstrip).
So if I only smoke on roller coasters, is that cool?
Laws against riding in a car without a seatbelt/not wearing a helmet on a bike? Lobbied by insurance companies who are tired of paying out because idiots don't protect themselves adequately. I'm never going to not wear a seatbelt and won't drive someone who won't, but if I'm an adult it should be my own damn choice.
And the fact that people who don't wear seatbelts not only are a greater risk of death and injury to themselves, but to other people as well.
Wait, what? Are you worried about someone's flying body killing someone else here, or what?
Unsecured bodies, and other things like laptops, briefcases, etc, are very dangerous in a car crash for the occupants inside the car. I'm not talking about bodies flying out of windshields and killing people, sorry.
People are working on it and there are multiple cities and I think a state that decided if the feds want it to be illegal then they can patrol the streets, but otherwise not a lot unless you want to somehow help out the above site.
Yeah I know about NORML, and its a good orginization, but that doesn't allow me, myself to do anything, and it doesn't effect anything where I live. There certainly havn't been any NORML organized (or any other sort) of pro-weed events in my city.
Join or donate to the Marijuana Party, as they're basically the most legitimate anti-prohibitionist organization we have in Canada. They're also crazy Libertarians, and they endorse Ron Paul so I don't donate. Instead I frequently patronize their establishment on Hastings and Cambie where you can pay $5 to use a Volcano vaporizer. Otherwise your best bet is to write a letter to your MP, a local paper, or Steve-O Himself. Honestly, enforcement in this country is so low that if you're careful and make sure to buy from small-time dealers, you'll likely never encounter problems with the Law.
If you're into public demonstrations you might want to come to Vancouver on 4/20, there'll be a huge crowd in front of the art gallery and the Party will be handing out free joints. Search youtube for "vancouver 420" to see what I'm talking about. Last year there were at least 2,000 people there and we created an enormous cloud of weed smoke that could be smelled many blocks away.
edit: I suspect most Canadian cities have some kind of weed rally on 4/20 but you'll have to google for the details of any such event.
People are working on it and there are multiple cities and I think a state that decided if the feds want it to be illegal then they can patrol the streets, but otherwise not a lot unless you want to somehow help out the above site.
Yeah I know about NORML, and its a good orginization, but that doesn't allow me, myself to do anything, and it doesn't effect anything where I live. There certainly havn't been any NORML organized (or any other sort) of pro-weed events in my city.
Join or donate to the Marijuana Party, as they're basically the most legitimate anti-prohibitionist organization we have in Canada. They're also crazy Libertarians, and they endorse Ron Paul so I don't donate. Instead I frequently patronize their establishment on Hastings and Cambie where you can pay $5 to use a Volcano vaporizer. Otherwise your best bet is to write a letter to your MP, a local paper, or Steve-O Himself. Honestly, enforcement in this country is so low that if you're careful and make sure to buy from small-time dealers, you'll likely never encounter problems with the Law.
If you're into public demonstrations you might want to come to Vancouver on 4/20, there'll be a huge crowd in front of the art gallery and the Party will be handing out free joints. Search youtube for "vancouver 420" to see what I'm talking about. Last year there were at least 2,000 people there and we created an enormous cloud of weed smoke that could be smelled many blocks away.
edit: I suspect most Canadian cities have some kind of weed rally on 4/20 but you'll have to google for the details of any such event.
Yeah I heard about that 420 thing in Vancouver. Was that the deal when the police said they were not going to arrest anyone for smoking weed that day? I remember hearing something to that effect, not sure how reliable it is though.
People are working on it and there are multiple cities and I think a state that decided if the feds want it to be illegal then they can patrol the streets, but otherwise not a lot unless you want to somehow help out the above site.
Yeah I know about NORML, and its a good orginization, but that doesn't allow me, myself to do anything, and it doesn't effect anything where I live. There certainly havn't been any NORML organized (or any other sort) of pro-weed events in my city.
Join or donate to the Marijuana Party, as they're basically the most legitimate anti-prohibitionist organization we have in Canada. They're also crazy Libertarians, and they endorse Ron Paul so I don't donate. Instead I frequently patronize their establishment on Hastings and Cambie where you can pay $5 to use a Volcano vaporizer. Otherwise your best bet is to write a letter to your MP, a local paper, or Steve-O Himself. Honestly, enforcement in this country is so low that if you're careful and make sure to buy from small-time dealers, you'll likely never encounter problems with the Law.
If you're into public demonstrations you might want to come to Vancouver on 4/20, there'll be a huge crowd in front of the art gallery and the Party will be handing out free joints. Search youtube for "vancouver 420" to see what I'm talking about. Last year there were at least 2,000 people there and we created an enormous cloud of weed smoke that could be smelled many blocks away.
edit: I suspect most Canadian cities have some kind of weed rally on 4/20 but you'll have to google for the details of any such event.
Yeah I heard about that 420 thing in Vancouver. Was that the deal when the police said they were not going to arrest anyone for smoking weed that day? I remember hearing something to that effect, not sure how reliable it is though.
The cops basically just don't fuck with the BCMP and their functions. They have better things to do.
People are working on it and there are multiple cities and I think a state that decided if the feds want it to be illegal then they can patrol the streets, but otherwise not a lot unless you want to somehow help out the above site.
Yeah I know about NORML, and its a good orginization, but that doesn't allow me, myself to do anything, and it doesn't effect anything where I live. There certainly havn't been any NORML organized (or any other sort) of pro-weed events in my city.
Join or donate to the Marijuana Party, as they're basically the most legitimate anti-prohibitionist organization we have in Canada. They're also crazy Libertarians, and they endorse Ron Paul so I don't donate. Instead I frequently patronize their establishment on Hastings and Cambie where you can pay $5 to use a Volcano vaporizer. Otherwise your best bet is to write a letter to your MP, a local paper, or Steve-O Himself. Honestly, enforcement in this country is so low that if you're careful and make sure to buy from small-time dealers, you'll likely never encounter problems with the Law.
If you're into public demonstrations you might want to come to Vancouver on 4/20, there'll be a huge crowd in front of the art gallery and the Party will be handing out free joints. Search youtube for "vancouver 420" to see what I'm talking about. Last year there were at least 2,000 people there and we created an enormous cloud of weed smoke that could be smelled many blocks away.
edit: I suspect most Canadian cities have some kind of weed rally on 4/20 but you'll have to google for the details of any such event.
Yeah I heard about that 420 thing in Vancouver. Was that the deal when the police said they were not going to arrest anyone for smoking weed that day? I remember hearing something to that effect, not sure how reliable it is though.
The cops basically just don't fuck with the BCMP and their functions. They have better things to do.
I agree, the laws are stupid and unnecessary, but something like that is just going to piss off everyone else in the city and if it has any effect at all it would only be to hurt your cause. Thats just really unbelievably stupid. "Hey, we want people to support our cause and help make marijuana legal, fuck lets piss off everyone within a 2 mile radius by creating a god awful stench, its sure to work!"
People are working on it and there are multiple cities and I think a state that decided if the feds want it to be illegal then they can patrol the streets, but otherwise not a lot unless you want to somehow help out the above site.
Yeah I know about NORML, and its a good orginization, but that doesn't allow me, myself to do anything, and it doesn't effect anything where I live. There certainly havn't been any NORML organized (or any other sort) of pro-weed events in my city.
Join or donate to the Marijuana Party, as they're basically the most legitimate anti-prohibitionist organization we have in Canada. They're also crazy Libertarians, and they endorse Ron Paul so I don't donate. Instead I frequently patronize their establishment on Hastings and Cambie where you can pay $5 to use a Volcano vaporizer. Otherwise your best bet is to write a letter to your MP, a local paper, or Steve-O Himself. Honestly, enforcement in this country is so low that if you're careful and make sure to buy from small-time dealers, you'll likely never encounter problems with the Law.
If you're into public demonstrations you might want to come to Vancouver on 4/20, there'll be a huge crowd in front of the art gallery and the Party will be handing out free joints. Search youtube for "vancouver 420" to see what I'm talking about. Last year there were at least 2,000 people there and we created an enormous cloud of weed smoke that could be smelled many blocks away.
edit: I suspect most Canadian cities have some kind of weed rally on 4/20 but you'll have to google for the details of any such event.
Yeah I heard about that 420 thing in Vancouver. Was that the deal when the police said they were not going to arrest anyone for smoking weed that day? I remember hearing something to that effect, not sure how reliable it is though.
The cops basically just don't fuck with the BCMP and their functions. They have better things to do.
I agree, the laws are stupid and unnecessary, but something like that is just going to piss off everyone else in the city and if it has any effect at all it would only be to hurt your cause. Thats just really unbelievably stupid. "Hey, we want people to support our cause and help make marijuana legal, fuck lets piss off everyone within a 2 mile radius by creating a god awful stench, its sure to work!"
I drive by Mount Rumpke on the way between my apartment and my dad's house. Shut the fuck up about godawful stenches.
ViolentChemistry on
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TL DRNot at all confident in his reflexive opinions of thingsRegistered Userregular
People are working on it and there are multiple cities and I think a state that decided if the feds want it to be illegal then they can patrol the streets, but otherwise not a lot unless you want to somehow help out the above site.
Yeah I know about NORML, and its a good orginization, but that doesn't allow me, myself to do anything, and it doesn't effect anything where I live. There certainly havn't been any NORML organized (or any other sort) of pro-weed events in my city.
Join or donate to the Marijuana Party, as they're basically the most legitimate anti-prohibitionist organization we have in Canada. They're also crazy Libertarians, and they endorse Ron Paul so I don't donate. Instead I frequently patronize their establishment on Hastings and Cambie where you can pay $5 to use a Volcano vaporizer. Otherwise your best bet is to write a letter to your MP, a local paper, or Steve-O Himself. Honestly, enforcement in this country is so low that if you're careful and make sure to buy from small-time dealers, you'll likely never encounter problems with the Law.
If you're into public demonstrations you might want to come to Vancouver on 4/20, there'll be a huge crowd in front of the art gallery and the Party will be handing out free joints. Search youtube for "vancouver 420" to see what I'm talking about. Last year there were at least 2,000 people there and we created an enormous cloud of weed smoke that could be smelled many blocks away.
edit: I suspect most Canadian cities have some kind of weed rally on 4/20 but you'll have to google for the details of any such event.
Yeah I heard about that 420 thing in Vancouver. Was that the deal when the police said they were not going to arrest anyone for smoking weed that day? I remember hearing something to that effect, not sure how reliable it is though.
The cops basically just don't fuck with the BCMP and their functions. They have better things to do.
I agree, the laws are stupid and unnecessary, but something like that is just going to piss off everyone else in the city and if it has any effect at all it would only be to hurt your cause. Thats just really unbelievably stupid. "Hey, we want people to support our cause and help make marijuana legal, fuck lets piss off everyone within a 2 mile radius by creating a god awful stench, its sure to work!"
I drive by Mount Rumpke on the way between my apartment and my dad's house. Shut the fuck up about godawful stenches.
Join or donate to the Marijuana Party, as they're basically the most legitimate anti-prohibitionist organization we have in Canada. They're also crazy Libertarians, and they endorse Ron Paul so I don't donate. Instead I frequently patronize their establishment on Hastings and Cambie where you can pay $5 to use a Volcano vaporizer. Otherwise your best bet is to write a letter to your MP, a local paper, or Steve-O Himself. Honestly, enforcement in this country is so low that if you're careful and make sure to buy from small-time dealers, you'll likely never encounter problems with the Law.
If you're into public demonstrations you might want to come to Vancouver on 4/20, there'll be a huge crowd in front of the art gallery and the Party will be handing out free joints. Search youtube for "vancouver 420" to see what I'm talking about. Last year there were at least 2,000 people there and we created an enormous cloud of weed smoke that could be smelled many blocks away.
edit: I suspect most Canadian cities have some kind of weed rally on 4/20 but you'll have to google for the details of any such event.
Yeah I heard about that 420 thing in Vancouver. Was that the deal when the police said they were not going to arrest anyone for smoking weed that day? I remember hearing something to that effect, not sure how reliable it is though.
The cops basically just don't fuck with the BCMP and their functions. They have better things to do.
I agree, the laws are stupid and unnecessary, but something like that is just going to piss off everyone else in the city and if it has any effect at all it would only be to hurt your cause. Thats just really unbelievably stupid. "Hey, we want people to support our cause and help make marijuana legal, fuck lets piss off everyone within a 2 mile radius by creating a god awful stench, its sure to work!"
It's a peaceful political demonstration, thousands of people from all walks of life (only a few actual, honest-to-god hippies) participate every year and nobody misbehaves or gets hurt. I think that's as good a way as any to raise awareness and show the government what we think of their laws. Political demonstrations are about being disruptive and making noise and not worrying about what the neighbours might think. Besides, practically everyone in Vancouver is okay with pot, and I doubt anybody is bothered by the "god awful stench". I always kind of liked the smell.
http://norml.org/
People are working on it and there are multiple cities and I think a state that decided if the feds want it to be illegal then they can patrol the streets, but otherwise not a lot unless you want to somehow help out the above site.
Yeah I know about NORML, and its a good orginization, but that doesn't allow me, myself to do anything, and it doesn't effect anything where I live. There certainly havn't been any NORML organized (or any other sort) of pro-weed events in my city.
Join or donate to the Marijuana Party, as they're basically the most legitimate anti-prohibitionist organization we have in Canada. They're also crazy Libertarians, and they endorse Ron Paul so I don't donate. Instead I frequently patronize their establishment on Hastings and Cambie where you can pay $5 to use a Volcano vaporizer. Otherwise your best bet is to write a letter to your MP, a local paper, or Steve-O Himself. Honestly, enforcement in this country is so low that if you're careful and make sure to buy from small-time dealers, you'll likely never encounter problems with the Law.
If you're into public demonstrations you might want to come to Vancouver on 4/20, there'll be a huge crowd in front of the art gallery and the Party will be handing out free joints. Search youtube for "vancouver 420" to see what I'm talking about. Last year there were at least 2,000 people there and we created an enormous cloud of weed smoke that could be smelled many blocks away.
edit: I suspect most Canadian cities have some kind of weed rally on 4/20 but you'll have to google for the details of any such event.
Yeah I heard about that 420 thing in Vancouver. Was that the deal when the police said they were not going to arrest anyone for smoking weed that day? I remember hearing something to that effect, not sure how reliable it is though.
The cops basically just don't fuck with the BCMP and their functions. They have better things to do.
I agree, the laws are stupid and unnecessary, but something like that is just going to piss off everyone else in the city and if it has any effect at all it would only be to hurt your cause. Thats just really unbelievably stupid. "Hey, we want people to support our cause and help make marijuana legal, fuck lets piss off everyone within a 2 mile radius by creating a god awful stench, its sure to work!"
This is like saying a demonstration just pisses people off because it slows down traffic.
http://norml.org/
People are working on it and there are multiple cities and I think a state that decided if the feds want it to be illegal then they can patrol the streets, but otherwise not a lot unless you want to somehow help out the above site.
Yeah I know about NORML, and its a good orginization, but that doesn't allow me, myself to do anything, and it doesn't effect anything where I live. There certainly havn't been any NORML organized (or any other sort) of pro-weed events in my city.
Join or donate to the Marijuana Party, as they're basically the most legitimate anti-prohibitionist organization we have in Canada. They're also crazy Libertarians, and they endorse Ron Paul so I don't donate. Instead I frequently patronize their establishment on Hastings and Cambie where you can pay $5 to use a Volcano vaporizer. Otherwise your best bet is to write a letter to your MP, a local paper, or Steve-O Himself. Honestly, enforcement in this country is so low that if you're careful and make sure to buy from small-time dealers, you'll likely never encounter problems with the Law.
If you're into public demonstrations you might want to come to Vancouver on 4/20, there'll be a huge crowd in front of the art gallery and the Party will be handing out free joints. Search youtube for "vancouver 420" to see what I'm talking about. Last year there were at least 2,000 people there and we created an enormous cloud of weed smoke that could be smelled many blocks away.
edit: I suspect most Canadian cities have some kind of weed rally on 4/20 but you'll have to google for the details of any such event.
Yeah I heard about that 420 thing in Vancouver. Was that the deal when the police said they were not going to arrest anyone for smoking weed that day? I remember hearing something to that effect, not sure how reliable it is though.
The cops basically just don't fuck with the BCMP and their functions. They have better things to do.
I agree, the laws are stupid and unnecessary, but something like that is just going to piss off everyone else in the city and if it has any effect at all it would only be to hurt your cause. Thats just really unbelievably stupid. "Hey, we want people to support our cause and help make marijuana legal, fuck lets piss off everyone within a 2 mile radius by creating a god awful stench, its sure to work!"
This is like saying a demonstration just pisses people off because it slows down traffic.
plus, it's Canada. If you're not doing it around an elementary school, no one gives a fuck.
The difference is when people protest against lets say environmental damage, people think your kind of bothersome, but they recognize you have a good cause, because unlike pot it hasn't been cast in a negative light by the government and the press for years and years. Really all a demonstration like that will do, especially in this day and age when smoking anything in public is starting to become more of stigma, and even illegal in many cities is enforce the negative stereotype. And lets be honest, very very few people who don't smoke marijuana find the smell unoffensive, hell most people I know who do smoke it hated the smell when they started. Although i'll admit in Vancouver it probably goes over without much of a stir since they have bigger things to worry about, like being the heroin capital of north america
Plus that kind of protest could qualify as an act of terrorism under the patriot acts, and that's worse than possession. Given a vaguely creative report.
Plus that kind of protest could qualify as an act of terrorism under the patriot acts, and that's worse than possession. Given a vaguely creative report.
'Protestors attempting to release particulate matter of unknown composition into the air. After we opened fire, they scattered. Many are still unaccounted for. Enhanced Interrogation Techniques have revealed little, though we now believe that the protestors were following a mysterious figure known as "The Dead"'
http://norml.org/
People are working on it and there are multiple cities and I think a state that decided if the feds want it to be illegal then they can patrol the streets, but otherwise not a lot unless you want to somehow help out the above site.
Yeah I know about NORML, and its a good orginization, but that doesn't allow me, myself to do anything, and it doesn't effect anything where I live. There certainly havn't been any NORML organized (or any other sort) of pro-weed events in my city.
Join or donate to the Marijuana Party, as they're basically the most legitimate anti-prohibitionist organization we have in Canada. They're also crazy Libertarians, and they endorse Ron Paul so I don't donate. Instead I frequently patronize their establishment on Hastings and Cambie where you can pay $5 to use a Volcano vaporizer. Otherwise your best bet is to write a letter to your MP, a local paper, or Steve-O Himself. Honestly, enforcement in this country is so low that if you're careful and make sure to buy from small-time dealers, you'll likely never encounter problems with the Law.
If you're into public demonstrations you might want to come to Vancouver on 4/20, there'll be a huge crowd in front of the art gallery and the Party will be handing out free joints. Search youtube for "vancouver 420" to see what I'm talking about. Last year there were at least 2,000 people there and we created an enormous cloud of weed smoke that could be smelled many blocks away.
edit: I suspect most Canadian cities have some kind of weed rally on 4/20 but you'll have to google for the details of any such event.
Yeah I heard about that 420 thing in Vancouver. Was that the deal when the police said they were not going to arrest anyone for smoking weed that day? I remember hearing something to that effect, not sure how reliable it is though.
The cops basically just don't fuck with the BCMP and their functions. They have better things to do.
I agree, the laws are stupid and unnecessary, but something like that is just going to piss off everyone else in the city and if it has any effect at all it would only be to hurt your cause. Thats just really unbelievably stupid. "Hey, we want people to support our cause and help make marijuana legal, fuck lets piss off everyone within a 2 mile radius by creating a god awful stench, its sure to work!"
This is like saying a demonstration just pisses people off because it slows down traffic.
plus, it's Canada. If you're not doing it around an elementary school, no one gives a fuck.
But this isn't true. People still get charged for possesion; I have a friend who was charged for having like 2 grams of hash or something like that. Police still go after people who smoke weed, at least where I am. They definitely dont trun a blind eye
http://norml.org/
People are working on it and there are multiple cities and I think a state that decided if the feds want it to be illegal then they can patrol the streets, but otherwise not a lot unless you want to somehow help out the above site.
Yeah I know about NORML, and its a good orginization, but that doesn't allow me, myself to do anything, and it doesn't effect anything where I live. There certainly havn't been any NORML organized (or any other sort) of pro-weed events in my city.
Join or donate to the Marijuana Party, as they're basically the most legitimate anti-prohibitionist organization we have in Canada. They're also crazy Libertarians, and they endorse Ron Paul so I don't donate. Instead I frequently patronize their establishment on Hastings and Cambie where you can pay $5 to use a Volcano vaporizer. Otherwise your best bet is to write a letter to your MP, a local paper, or Steve-O Himself. Honestly, enforcement in this country is so low that if you're careful and make sure to buy from small-time dealers, you'll likely never encounter problems with the Law.
If you're into public demonstrations you might want to come to Vancouver on 4/20, there'll be a huge crowd in front of the art gallery and the Party will be handing out free joints. Search youtube for "vancouver 420" to see what I'm talking about. Last year there were at least 2,000 people there and we created an enormous cloud of weed smoke that could be smelled many blocks away.
edit: I suspect most Canadian cities have some kind of weed rally on 4/20 but you'll have to google for the details of any such event.
Yeah I heard about that 420 thing in Vancouver. Was that the deal when the police said they were not going to arrest anyone for smoking weed that day? I remember hearing something to that effect, not sure how reliable it is though.
The cops basically just don't fuck with the BCMP and their functions. They have better things to do.
I agree, the laws are stupid and unnecessary, but something like that is just going to piss off everyone else in the city and if it has any effect at all it would only be to hurt your cause. Thats just really unbelievably stupid. "Hey, we want people to support our cause and help make marijuana legal, fuck lets piss off everyone within a 2 mile radius by creating a god awful stench, its sure to work!"
This is like saying a demonstration just pisses people off because it slows down traffic.
plus, it's Canada. If you're not doing it around an elementary school, no one gives a fuck.
But this isn't true. People still get charged for possesion; I have a friend who was charged for having like 2 grams of hash or something like that. Police still go after people who smoke weed, at least where I am. They definitely dont trun a blind eye
Cops will bust you if you don't give them a choice, i.e if you smoke within smelling distance of them, or if you're reported and they're dispatched. The latter happens rarely, because it's Canada. The former can be avoided pretty easily if the majority of cops patrol in cars and you aren't hotboxing yours.
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TL DRNot at all confident in his reflexive opinions of thingsRegistered Userregular
Also hippy-stink is not from smoking pot, this I can assure you. There's far more at work in that odor.
I think he really wants to ban Patchouli oil, and is just confused.
I think the rallies are kinda useful to point out, "Hey, look at all the folks who smoke, and most of them seem to also manage to have a life and are not dangerious and are probably people you know." sort of thing.
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Thanks for the link. Now people don't just have to take my word for it. ;-)
The consensus here seems to be that it should be ended. You are kinda disagreeing, but you are not providing any reasoning for it. You are saying (I paraphrase) "its illegal, there must be a reason for it", "society doesn't like smoking", "protect your health" and so on.
Now, several people here are essentially dismissing you as a troll due to your imprecise arguments, but I'm resisting that. I feel very strongly on the subject, and essentially I will set out to convert you to my way of thinking on it via intelligent debate.
I think marijuana should be legal for the following reasons:
1) Marijuana does not have health effects negative enough to warrent the laws against it
2) Prohibition is more damaging than the drug itself. Billions of dollars spent, huge police resources used, thousands and thousands of people in jail, loss of respect for authority for enforcing such rediculous laws.
3) Prohibition is totally ineffective. Marijuana usage rates continue to climb (with no adverse effects on society) despite the huge resources being applied against it. Laws are not stopping people from using the drug.
4) Current laws are hypocritical, with dangerous drugs like alcohol and nicotine being freely available, while the comparatively benign weed is illegal. Alcohol and nicotine are legal because people recognize prohibition against them is infeasible. It is infeasible for the same reasons marijuana prohibition is failing.
5) In some places (ie The Netherlands) marijuana is essentially legal, and their society has not been irreparably damaged because of it. Legalization is a viable alternative.
I just pulled those arguments off the top of my head, it pretty well covers my stance on the issue. So, Mathieu, I challenge you to a friendly debate. Please pick apart my arguments as best you can, tell my why I am wrong about legalization, and why you are right, that it should not be legalized. Please back yourself up as much as possible (weed is unhealthy? link? etc), I sure will.
Alright, but no pro-legalization person is advocating letting people some marijuana in public places.
And no, Cigarette smoke is not similar to marijuana smoke.
Smoke is smoke. It's not permitted, whatever kind of smoke it is. If only this were true.
Skydiving is also more potentially dangerous than pot, even when the jumper is competent and is being fully supervised by a trained professional - the consequences of a bong failing are not quite as high as those of a parachute failing. Skydiving is also much more expensive, and is harder to accomplish on a semi-regular basis than getting baked (unless you own your own plane and airstrip).
Has anyone posted a link to that Walk Hard clip in this thread yet? No? Here you go.
And good luck trying to play videogames while skydiving...
The risk of dying from ecstasy is less than the risk of dying from skydiving, if not less. No-one has ever died from weed. Few from mushrooms. So why is skydiving legal? There's nothing more or less real about it, and you're not just sat on your couch either.
And I don't know about taking more or less guts to jump out of a plane - one is putting your body through serious physical stress, the other is putting your brain through mental stress. Some people are more inclined to do one than the other. Also you wouldn't be questioning bravery if you'd ever tasted them :P And in regards to "reward", well the way I see it you can either jump out of a plane and shit yourself scared, or you can unlock the deepest parts of your mind which would otherwise remain locked to you forever and make some startling revelations about both yourself and the universe in general. You'll also experience loss of ego which is nigh-impossible without drugs. Plus hallucinations are cool. So, reward. I've been rewarded.
I don't see drug use as being merely "fun." (BTW, I don't smoke pot at all but I'll freely admit to using other substances.) To me, the term "recreational" is a misnomer. It's not simply recreation for me, any more than sex or really good music is recreation.
Actually, sometimes drug use isn't fun at all. I've had psychedelic trips that were downright psychologically agonizing. They weren't any more fun than volunteering on a suicide hotline is "fun." But I'm glad I did it.
I also don't use recreational drugs often. With the exception of alcohol, I do recreational drugs three or four times a year. Yet I consider it a very important aspect of my life, one that I am not going to give up readily. I would not, for instance, seriously date somebody who was straight-edge.
Drug use is a personally, spiritually enriching aspect of my life. I learn things about myself. I learn things about other people. I put the problems (and the blessings) of my life in a new perspective. I encounter a range of experiences that I would never encounter otherwise; experiences of incredible intensity, of sublime meaning, of deep introspection, of heartbreaking intimacy, of unbearable pain, of worldshattering pleasure.
I do it for all the same reasons that people listen to music, make art, help the homeless, travel, go to church, have sex, fall in love, have kids. Every time I do it, my soul grows a little bit more. None of these things are "necessary" in the terms of putting food on your plate or paying your rent, but these experiences - or experiences like them - are important elements of living a full human life. If I have to explain why, you'll never understand.
I feel pity for the people who seek to keep it illegal.
the "no true scotch man" fallacy.
Actually thats not fair. I do understand it, I just think its such a bad approach to life.
https://medium.com/@alascii
It's kinda true, but not the way the poster intends, I think.
There are always REASONS for laws, but they're not always good ones. And they're not always really what they claim to be - they're rarely for safety.
Laws against marijuana? Heavily lobbied by the nylon and cotton industries, as they don't want hemp coming back as competition.
Laws against riding in a car without a seatbelt/not wearing a helmet on a bike? Lobbied by insurance companies who are tired of paying out because idiots don't protect themselves adequately. I'm never going to not wear a seatbelt and won't drive someone who won't, but if I'm an adult it should be my own damn choice.
Laws against speeding? Meant to increase funds from ticketing due to unintuitive legal limit changes. Speed limits are not calculated for safety, they're calculated to get the most revenue from people who break them without completely destroying the ability of the city roads to serve their function.
These laws are upheld by voters who just think "yay, I'm protecting people!" and don't stop to think about personal freedom and greed.
Yeah pretty much.
And the fact that people who don't wear seatbelts not only are a greater risk of death and injury to themselves, but to other people as well.
Its actually a bit less fun when everyone agrees, I need to go raid some anti-drug forum or something.
Your ability to survive a minor accident can determine whether it becomes a major accident.
My question is, what do we do about it?
Some progress has been made, someone put up a link about Seatle, or somewhere, delcaring weed to be the lowest priority for cops. Vancouver wants to legalize it (the mayor has said so) but the city lacks the authority to make its own laws. Up here in Canada there was a brief move towards decriminalization, but when Harper and his Conservatives got into power they squashed that idea, getting "tough on crime" instead.
So whats to be done? I've been thinking about organizing a demonstration in my area. Not really sure what form it would take, a civil-disobedience style "smoke-in" would be fun, but of course illegal. Standard demonstrations are both more boring and generally harder to get people interested in.
So D&D, how do we convince regular people, and more importantly politicians, that ending marijuana prohibition is a good thing?
People are working on it and there are multiple cities and I think a state that decided if the feds want it to be illegal then they can patrol the streets, but otherwise not a lot unless you want to somehow help out the above site.
Yeah I know about NORML, and its a good orginization, but that doesn't allow me, myself to do anything, and it doesn't effect anything where I live. There certainly havn't been any NORML organized (or any other sort) of pro-weed events in my city.
So if I only smoke on roller coasters, is that cool?
Unsecured bodies, and other things like laptops, briefcases, etc, are very dangerous in a car crash for the occupants inside the car. I'm not talking about bodies flying out of windshields and killing people, sorry.
If you're into public demonstrations you might want to come to Vancouver on 4/20, there'll be a huge crowd in front of the art gallery and the Party will be handing out free joints. Search youtube for "vancouver 420" to see what I'm talking about. Last year there were at least 2,000 people there and we created an enormous cloud of weed smoke that could be smelled many blocks away.
edit: I suspect most Canadian cities have some kind of weed rally on 4/20 but you'll have to google for the details of any such event.
Yeah I heard about that 420 thing in Vancouver. Was that the deal when the police said they were not going to arrest anyone for smoking weed that day? I remember hearing something to that effect, not sure how reliable it is though.
I drive by Mount Rumpke on the way between my apartment and my dad's house. Shut the fuck up about godawful stenches.
High five.
plus, it's Canada. If you're not doing it around an elementary school, no one gives a fuck.
most people in Canada think pot should be legalized, and the municipal government has even declared that would legalize marijuana is they could.
'Protestors attempting to release particulate matter of unknown composition into the air. After we opened fire, they scattered. Many are still unaccounted for. Enhanced Interrogation Techniques have revealed little, though we now believe that the protestors were following a mysterious figure known as "The Dead"'
But this isn't true. People still get charged for possesion; I have a friend who was charged for having like 2 grams of hash or something like that. Police still go after people who smoke weed, at least where I am. They definitely dont trun a blind eye
Cops will bust you if you don't give them a choice, i.e if you smoke within smelling distance of them, or if you're reported and they're dispatched. The latter happens rarely, because it's Canada. The former can be avoided pretty easily if the majority of cops patrol in cars and you aren't hotboxing yours.
I think he really wants to ban Patchouli oil, and is just confused.
I think the rallies are kinda useful to point out, "Hey, look at all the folks who smoke, and most of them seem to also manage to have a life and are not dangerious and are probably people you know." sort of thing.
I wouldn't oppose a ban on failure to shower at reasonable intervals.