Birthright Israel

RecklessReckless Registered User regular
edited January 2008 in Help / Advice Forum
Birthright Israel is essentially an organization which pays for young adults of a Jewish heritage to spend ten days in Israel, free of charge. As someone who was brought up Jewish, I'm thinking very seriously about getting involved with these guys. I wouldn't consider myself a practicing Jew, but I certainly feel strongly about my heritage and would love to be able to spend time in the area.

Has anybody here been a part of these trips, or know anybody who's gone on them?

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Posts

  • Grid SystemGrid System Registered User regular
    edited January 2008
    I know a lot of people who have gone on Birthright trips, including my brother who just got back from his about two hours ago. I haven't met a single person who has regretted going, and as far as I can remember the respones were extremely positive across the board.

    The impression I've been given is that the trips can be quite ideologically charged though, so if you have significant doubts or criticisms of Israel or Judaism, you might feel a bit overwhelmed.

    Grid System on
  • mtsmts Dr. Robot King Registered User regular
    edited January 2008
    i did it. it was one of the best things i ever did. I was part of the initial outdoorsy trip that was not super religious. we did the big things like the wailing wall etc, but it was mostly about hanging out and seeing israel rather than being religious. i mean , we went rapelling and caving. IIRC, there is a lot of variety of trips, some more religiousy than others so you can pick one accordingly. You should definitely do it while you can

    mts on
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  • LocusLocus Trust Me The seaRegistered User regular
    edited January 2008
    My cousin went last year and my sister is in Israel as we speak. I would have gone this year if I didn't have to work. They both enjoyed it and neither one of them is the devout "Rah Rah Israel" type of Jew. You should research the different trips available and find one that you think fits your personality. Also, you should try to go with a friend or family member. Makes it more fun, from what I've heard.

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  • CojonesCojones Registered User regular
    edited January 2008
    I know a lot of people who have gone on Birthright trips, including my brother who just got back from his about two hours ago. I haven't met a single person who has regretted going, and as far as I can remember the responses were extremely positive across the board.

    The impression I've been given is that the trips can be quite ideologically charged though, so if you have significant doubts or criticisms of Israel or Judaism, you might feel a bit overwhelmed.
    This.

    I can see this thread quickly turning into a debate.

    Cojones on
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  • mtsmts Dr. Robot King Registered User regular
    edited January 2008
    Locus wrote: »
    My cousin went last year and my sister is in Israel as we speak. I would have gone this year if I didn't have to work. They both enjoyed it and neither one of them is the devout "Rah Rah Israel" type of Jew. You should research the different trips available and find one that you think fits your personality. Also, you should try to go with a friend or family member. Makes it more fun, from what I've heard.

    yep, i am definitely not a rah rah israel jew, more cultural than religious. i went by myself. Looking back i am glad i didn't go with another person i knew. it forced me to open up and get to know everyone rather than hang out with a familiar face. two sides

    mts on
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  • GafotoGafoto Registered User regular
    edited January 2008
    Free trip is free? Fuck yes do that.

    Gafoto on
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  • MariamMariam Registered User regular
    edited January 2008
    I don't know anyone that has regretted going either. My husband did a short Birthright trip, a longer stay on a kibbutz, and did a 6-week "basic training" camp thing with the Israeli Army.

    Mariam on
  • EggyToastEggyToast Jersey CityRegistered User regular
    edited January 2008
    Jerusalem Syndrome, as well as other onset of religious ideas, is not particular to a group or trip or whatever, it's individual specific. Everything I've heard about these trips are that they're not indoctrination into anything, but more that because you visit all of these extremely symbolic places and see some pretty impressive things, you feel more spiritual. You will probably feel more attachment to Israel, which, being a Jew, probably won't bother you at all. If you want to do it, find the time and do it.

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  • OrganichuOrganichu poops peesRegistered User, Moderator mod
    edited January 2008
    I've never done Birthright (since I was born in Israel I'm apparently not eligible, oops) but everyone I know who's done it loves it.

    Organichu on
  • VThornheartVThornheart Registered User regular
    edited January 2008
    Aye, if it's a trip that's free as in Beer, you can always stick earphones in and listen to music when they try to lecture you about something that you don't want to hear about. Go for it.

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  • ChopperDaveChopperDave Registered User regular
    edited January 2008
    Mhm, well, I guess I'll be the one to rain on the parade here.

    I will declare ahead of time that I am a Jew who falls pretty squarely into the anti-Zionism camp. This is not to mean anti-Israel, mind you, but many people take a to equal b. I also refused to go on the Birthright trip on the principle that I believe that I, as an American Jew, have no such birth right to travel freely or assume citizenship in Israel when others, based upon their birth, are denied the same. This shouldn't have any influence on how you read my opinion, but I thought I should be honest.

    First of all, the trip is absolutely an exercise in indoctrination. The first thing you will hear when you arrive is "Welcome home." It will not be the last time you hear this. You will not visit any Palestinian towns, and you probably will not meet any Palestinian residents. You will avoid any and all "ugly" aspects of the Palestinian-Arab conflict, including the wall, the settlements, the segregated highway systems, the military bases (except for a highly choreographed meet-and-great with IDF soldiers), etc. The most you will get regarding the Palestinian people is lip service - for the most part, you'll find the trip completely ignores them, and you won't generally find any other tripgoers or local Israelis who will be brave enough to explore these areas in their free time, either. You will not be getting anything but a very saccharine view of the Israeli state from the Jewish perspective.

    I have also heard, from others who have gone on the trip, that if you know anything about Israel, then the trip is largely worthless. At 10 days, it's very short, and it can be quite highly choreographed, to the point where it may seem overly mawkish and even a bit disingenuous. You don't get anything from this trip besides a very superficial, brief view of a few key locations, most of which are designed to dig at your sentimentalism as a Jew.

    If you're not overly political, have no qualms about Israel, don't desire a full understanding of the state or its people both Israeli and Palestinian, and only want in for the free trips to scenic locations and the opportunity to meet new people (which isn't inherently a bad thing, just means you have different goals), then by all means go on the trip.

    However, if you are concerned with those things, then I will offer two alternatives from different perspectives:

    The Pro-Zionism perspective: As I have implied, I have had a few friends who went on Birthright, and found the trip rather limited, unsatisfactory, and largely a waste of time. They thought it much more gratifying to simply spend a month or two backpacking around Israel, staying in hostels, getting to know actual people and families, visiting/working at kibbutzes, taking summer classes, etc. If possible, you should really arrange to at least do some of this after your Birthright trip, if not forgo the tourist trap and proceed straight to the meat of the matter, so to speak. This will give you a much fuller understanding of the Jewish perspective, if that's what you want. Of course, it'll require more planning and perhaps more money (if the idea of recouping costs working on a kibbutz or something doesn't appeal to you).

    The not-so-pro-Zionism perspective: There are quite a few other organized trips which will help round out your experience in Israel, many of which will take you through the Occupied Territories. The best example I can think of is Birthright Unplugged, which is a trip that has risen as a sort of counterpoint to the Birthright tour, and only costs $350 (excluding plane fares to and from Israel). My advice here would be to use Birthright to get into Israel and go on those trips to get the Jewish perspective, and then proceed straight into something like Birthright Unplugged to get the Palestinian perspective. You'll be facing indoctrination from both sides, and you will again only be getting a glossed tourist view of things, but at least you'll get a more well-rounded experience out of it. Again, I'd recommend staying in the state afterwards and doing some exploration on your own, if you can.

    ChopperDave on
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  • OrganichuOrganichu poops peesRegistered User, Moderator mod
    edited January 2008
    ChopperDave, while I completely understand where you're coming from, the imperatives you describe don't really seem to matter to the average person taking part in these trips. I know that Taglit tries to tout the attendees as highly religious people who are looking for a more spiritual and 'Jewish' life. However, IME talking with Birthright folk while I lived in Israel, most people treated it as a vacation.

    A free vacation- which, to be frank, is why it gets tens of thousands of volunteers. Free vacation to a new country. The people I spoke with (not my friends, random people who were on Birthright trips that I bumped into) were looking for a relaxing 10 day trip in a place they felt connected to. That was it in most cases.

    However, if the case is, as you describe, a person looking for a thorough understanding of Israel and the state of Jewish affairs- controversial and not controversial- within and without Israel proper, then yes, Birthright Israel won't even begin to scratch the service. I'd recommend a more personal adventure.

    Organichu on
  • ChopperDaveChopperDave Registered User regular
    edited January 2008
    Right, I agree. Like I said, if you want to treat it as a free vacation, and have no large qualms against the Israeli state, then you should absolutely go ahead and do Birthright. But if you plan on going on the trip so that you can have a better understanding of your ancestral homeland, past and present, then there are much better options.

    There's nothing better or morally superior or whatever about either imperative, but one should certainly keep in mind that Birthright caters to certain people/mindsets more so than others.


    edit: I also wanted my other post to act as a warning regarding the purpose of the trip. It is there to indoctrinate you, and there really can't be any doubting of that - so if you go, please keep in mind that you are getting a very one-sided view, and try not to let yourself simplify the very complex issues surrounding the Israel-Palestine conflict. In other words, try not to come back as one of those guys who "saw the truth" through his Birthright trip, and who parades around campus in an IDF sweatshirt and bullies pro-Palestinian students in campus periodicals and gets anti-Zionist professors kicked from the school because they are "anti-Semites," because those guys are super annoying. :P

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  • CojonesCojones Registered User regular
    edited January 2008
    Right, I agree. Like I said, if you want to treat it as a free vacation, and have no large qualms against the Israeli state, then you should absolutely go ahead and do Birthright. But if you plan on going on the trip so that you can have a better understanding of your ancestral homeland, past and present, then there are much better options.

    There's nothing better or morally superior or whatever about either imperative, but one should certainly keep in mind that Birthright caters to certain people/mindsets more so than others.


    edit: I also wanted my other post to act as a warning regarding the purpose of the trip. It is there to indoctrinate you, and there really can't be any doubting of that - so if you go, please keep in mind that you are getting a very one-sided view, and try not to let yourself simplify the very complex issues surrounding the Israel-Palestine conflict. In other words, try not to come back as one of those guys who "saw the truth" through his Birthright trip, and who parades around campus in an IDF sweatshirt and bullies pro-Palestinian students in campus periodicals and gets anti-Zionist professors kicked from the school because they are "anti-Semites," because those guys are super annoying. :P
    Let's not have any illusions as to why the Israeli government are(partially) funding these trips for you; the pro-Zionist sentiments on the Birthright Israel homepage speak volumes.

    Cojones on
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  • ShmoepongShmoepong Registered User regular
    edited January 2008
    I went for 6 weeks through B'nai Israel and BEFTY/NIFTY when I was 16. I have never hooked up with so many girls in my life in so short a period. Totally worth going.

    I also camped with some bedouins, caked myself in mud at the dead sea and saw lots of desert. I guess it was culturally invigorating.

    Hooking up was cool too.

    Shmoepong on
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  • OrganichuOrganichu poops peesRegistered User, Moderator mod
    edited January 2008
    ...who parades around campus in an IDF sweatshirt...

    I don't know if you were just listing this as a 'sometimes' characteristic of some blind Zionists, but if you're not: there's nothing wrong with wearing an IDF sweatshirt around campus or being pro-Israel on campus and getting involved in cultural and political processes. Especially considering that one of the tragedies of the conflict is suppression of Palestinian cultural exchange, I think it's weird for you to find people annoying who are expressing support for a group they consider to be threatened and valorous.

    Unless you were grouping all those characteristics together into 'that guy' who wants America to essentially adopt Israel and who supports the genocide of Palestinians and wants the Mosque brought down today and the Temple rebuilt tomorrow... in which case you're right and that guy is a gigantic douche bag.

    Organichu on
  • ChopperDaveChopperDave Registered User regular
    edited January 2008
    Yeah, I'm just grouping all those traits together. In this particular case, "that guy" is a group of students on my campus who rallied the Hillel kids and used a bunch of false accusations to get the school to "refuse tenure" to one of my favorite Political Science professors, which caused him to "leave." I'm still a little bitter about it. I also have to not occasionally try to provide some reasoned counterpoints to their bile in the campus publications, and it gets frustrating being one of the few people they can't bully via Hillel (I don't really go so they can't ostracize me, and I seem to have Jew immunity to arguments of anti-Semitism).

    Anyway, I have absolutely nothing against people who are pro-Israel or pro-Zionism or even pro-IDF, especially if they have rational, well-reasoned grounds for being so. It's when people come back spouting shit like "Land without a people for a people without land" and "Arabs don't know how to do anything but kill Israelis and each other" that I get angry.

    Not to say that Birthright actively produces people like that, but it certainly lends to the attitude. Even if you don't come back as one of the douches, you very well may come back as one of those aforementioned "Hillel kids" who drink the Kool-aid and rally around their bully tactics. So I'm just saying, if you go on that trip, try not to let the let the sometimes subtle ("Welcome home"), sometimes not (Now let's shout "The children of Israel live!!" into Masada!) indoctrination sway you into a sense of patriotism for Israel which undermines the discussion back home.

    ChopperDave on
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  • OrganichuOrganichu poops peesRegistered User, Moderator mod
    edited January 2008
    Ugh, the Hillel people on my campus were fucking terrible. I walked into one of their informal meetings on the lawn and sort of stood back, listening. They sounded decent at first- they were organizing a 'Jewish awareness' thing for religious (but not Jewish) students to learn more about Judaism and Israel. I was wearing a t shirt from Tel Aviv University, and one of the (main?) guys saw me and said "hello, my friend" in Hebrew.

    I smiled and responded, glad to be using Hebrew for the first time at school and the guy looked at me clueless. Apparently they didn't speak Hebrew (except for that phrase, I guess) and I was the first person they came across who did. They were very excited and after I fell back into English they introduced themselves. Apparently there were a few others there 'new' to the group, and they said:

    "Hey brother, just before you showed up we were discussing a Jewish learning event... it's great to have a real source of knowledge! Maybe you can tell some of these people about the plight of the Jewish people in the modern world."

    "Alright, I guess I could share some of my experiences... when is this event?"

    "We haven't decided yet, but now that you're willing to jump in we can definitely kick up the terror rhetoric."

    "Huh?"



    Apparently they wanted to use me to fire up the good ol' 'Jews are innocent guardian angels of the Levant and Arabs are well-treated yet rebellious monsters' argument. I was having none of that shit and avoided them for the rest of the semester. I certainly can't speak for the entire organization but those pricks I met in that 'chapter' advocated genocide and were quite smug and ridiculous.







    Anyway, sorry to derail. Pretty much all of the ChopperDave's comments in this thread have been spot on and you should keep them in mind.

    Organichu on
  • ChopperDaveChopperDave Registered User regular
    edited January 2008
    In my experience, Israelis tend to be far more reasonable and evenhanded when it comes to discussion of the conflict - probably because you all live there, and can see with your own eyes what is true and not true, and have something besides ideology at stake when debating the issues.

    American Jews are the ones who seem to drink the KoolAid and spout the dogma, some decades old and disproven. It wouldn't surprise me if we had more and worse hard-liners here than the Likud, Mafda and HaIkhud HaLeumi combined. That's why I worry about Birthright - the cynic in me sees that it's there to throw fuel towards typical American misconceptions, and give American Jews more reason to blindly support Israel in its every policy decision without thinking to question why.

    Anyway, I really appreciate your endorsement, Organichu, seeing as you are a former Israeli resident and all. I don't have an axe to grind against supporters of Israel or Birthright, but I think it's important for American Jews who plan on going on the trip to ask themselves why they are doing so, and to be more aware of what they are both seeing and not seeing.

    ChopperDave on
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