How can you justify that all silver members deserve thesame compensation as all gold members?
Just to throw my experience yesterday into the ring;
I've been a Gold member since 360 launch day Dec 5th 2005.
My 2 yearly Live Gold subscription, plus original free month ran out last night - Jan 5th 2008.
As of right now, and for the first day since I got my 360 I am a Silver user. Last night, try as many times as I liked, I could not access the 360 dash, or the Marketplace (to renew my Gold status) or access any of the Live Arcade titles, movie (HD 300) and full-game DLC I have payed for and own, due to shitty DRM issues which have never been resolved since my original 360 RROD'd. If, for one second, I thought I was going to be entitled to any less compensation as a "Silver" user, I would be seriously pissed off.
As it happens, I've gone and bought another 12 months of Live Gold today, and I'm about to try my 360 again. As I found out last night - promotional 48-hour codes cannot be entered via xbox.com - only purchased subscription cards. So if the 360 fails me, at least I can *hopefully* use the website.
So yeah, any and all Silver users should get full compensation equal to Gold users, just to avoid the plethora of "special case" situations like my own, caused by a nasty combination of fuck-ups on Microsofts part, further compounding a problem (RROD + bad DRM + Live outage = utter fail).
A free game would be great, and I'd certainly forgive the hassle and inconvenience I went through yesterday, as Live has been a fantastic service until this hiccup. I can only hope it is not something I already own, and that my one day spent as a Silver member will not throw a spanner in the works somewhere else down the line...
The point is the Gold subscribers had to pay for a service that conked out on them whilst the silver folk couldn't really complain since it was free for them. The Gold subscribers in this instance should be the ones compensated, as opposed to all members of Live. What the heck are we paying for?!
Would you say if PS3 or Wii online service dropped completely for two weeks, the respective console owners would have no right to complain about it because they're not paying extra for it?
How can you justify that all silver members deserve thesame compensation as all gold members?
Just to throw my experience yesterday into the ring;
I've been a Gold member since 360 launch day Dec 5th 2005.
My 2 yearly Live Gold subscription, plus original free month ran out last night - Jan 5th 2008.
As of right now, and for the first day since I got my 360 I am a Silver user. Last night, try as many times as I liked, I could not access the 360 dash, or the Marketplace (to renew my Gold status) or access any of the Live Arcade titles, movie (HD 300) and full-game DLC I have payed for and own, due to shitty DRM issues which have never been resolved since my original 360 RROD'd. If, for one second, I thought I was going to be entitled to any less compensation as a "Silver" user, I would be seriously pissed off.
As it happens, I've gone and bought another 12 months of Live Gold today, and I'm about to try my 360 again. As I found out last night - promotional 48-hour codes cannot be entered via xbox.com - only purchased subscription cards. So if the 360 fails me, at least I can *hopefully* use the website.
So yeah, any and all Silver users should get full compensation equal to Gold users, just to avoid the plethora of "special case" situations like my own, caused by a nasty combination of fuck-ups on Microsofts part, further compounding a problem (RROD + bad DRM + Live outage = utter fail).
A free game would be great, and I'd certainly forgive the hassle and inconvenience I went through yesterday, as Live has been a fantastic service until this hiccup. I can only hope it is not something I already own, and that my one day spent as a Silver member will not throw a spanner in the works somewhere else down the line...
Ummm...
Microsoft has records to show who was a gold member DURING that time period.
The point is the Gold subscribers had to pay for a service that conked out on them whilst the silver folk couldn't really complain since it was free for them. The Gold subscribers in this instance should be the ones compensated, as opposed to all members of Live. What the heck are we paying for?!
Would you say if PS3 or Wii online service dropped completely for two weeks, the respective console owners would have no right to complain about it because they're not paying extra for it?
It depends on the situation. Like was stated above, if you have to be signed in through Live to access content you purchased (on another console as it broke), then they should compensate you somehow for the inconvenience. You paid for content and they are, in a way, denying you access to it.
If the Wii service went down and I could no longer play the VC games I had purchased, I would be ticked and I would complain. However, if it meant I couldn't play Strikers online, then I don't really have an argument worth complaining to Nintendo about, but I'm sure some would complain online at least. One involves money spent for a service that was disrupted. The other is a freebie that was unavailable at the time.
I didn't realize that buying games and such was a freebie.
It's like (again, lets use the restaurant example) I go to a steakhouse and order a steak. The waiter acts like everything's fine. For some reason you have to pay up front, but no big deal, it's suppose to be a good steak. Then the waiter comes back to the table 15 minutes later and says "SORRY, WE COULDN'T CONNECT YOU TO OUR COOK, YOU'LL HAVE TO COME BACK AND GET YOUR STEAK SOME OTHER TIME! WE CAN'T REFUND YOUR MONEY. YOU JUST HAVE TO GET YOUR STEAK SOME OTHER TIME!".
So you leave and come back. You get your steak that you already paid for and eat it. It's so good that you decide to forgive the awful service last time.
So you leave and come back again, this time everything looks like it's going fine, but when you try to pay, the waiter just looks at you and yells "SORRY, WE COULDN'T ACCEPT YOUR CASH RIGHT NOW, OUR REGISTER'S BROKEN! PLEASE COME BACK ANOTHER TIME!"
This is what was going on with buying DLC for games and XBLA games. It was bullshit, and I damned well expect them to compensate me for their service being a pain in the ass the last several days.
Yes, Gold member deserve these last two weeks refunded back to them, but the WHOLE of Live deserves to be compensated, not just gold members.
To the person who asked about Gripshift, yes, it is a fantastic game and I'd say it's a strong candidate for second best XBLA game of 2007 (right after Pac-Man:CE). It's also an odd game (1 part racer, 1 part puzzle game) so the mediocre reviews don't surprise me; it's more of a case of reviewers not getting the game rather than the game being poor.
The only problem I have with it is I wish there was a way to save replays. I spent about an hour last night trying to master one level and by the end of the hour, the stunts and tricks I was employing to shave time off my score were epic.
That analogy is even worse than LewieP's. If someone uses that analogy again I will eat my own cook.
In fact, it was so bad, it was like when you go to a Restaurant, and order a steak, but instead get a bad analogy on your plate, and then the restaurant is all "Have Metal Slug 3 for free bitches!"
Speaking of points, I tried to buy points last night to download the Halo Map Pack and it wouldnt let me. Microsoft stopped me from giving them money. Amazing.
EDIT: And whats with that shitty points system anyways? Whats wrong with using good, old fashioned US dollars as a currency? Things listed on the Playstation store have prices like $9.99.... not hard. On the other hand, something on the marketplace costs 800 points... what the fuck is that?
MistaCreepy on
PS3: MistaCreepy::Steam: MistaCreepy::360: Dead and I don't feel like paying to fix it.
The point is the Gold subscribers had to pay for a service that conked out on them whilst the silver folk couldn't really complain since it was free for them. The Gold subscribers in this instance should be the ones compensated, as opposed to all members of Live. What the heck are we paying for?!
Would you say if PS3 or Wii online service dropped completely for two weeks, the respective console owners would have no right to complain about it because they're not paying extra for it?
It depends on the situation. Like was stated above, if you have to be signed in through Live to access content you purchased (on another console as it broke), then they should compensate you somehow for the inconvenience. You paid for content and they are, in a way, denying you access to it.
If the Wii service went down and I could no longer play the VC games I had purchased, I would be ticked and I would complain. However, if it meant I couldn't play Strikers online, then I don't really have an argument worth complaining to Nintendo about, but I'm sure some would complain online at least. One involves money spent for a service that was disrupted. The other is a freebie that was unavailable at the time.
The former example is almost exactly what a number of Live Silver members are having trouble with. The way the 360's DRM works, an XBLA game is playable 1) on the console it's purchased on (regardless of gamertag/profile) and 2) with the gamertag that purchased it (regardless of console it's being played on). With 360 repairs/new systems bought, many people lose Option 1 and count on Option 2, which is contingent on Live being up. If you don't have Internet access or if the Live servers are down, then none of your XBLA games are accessible to you. You can apparently get on the horn and complain to MS customer service to get this remedied, but many people have been told that Option 2 is their only option.
Speaking of points, I tried to buy points last night to download the Halo Map Pack and it wouldnt let me. Microsoft stopped me from giving them money. Amazing.
Hey, snap. We should be blood brothers or something.
That analogy is even worse than LewieP's. If someone uses that analogy again I will eat my own cook.
It's less of an analogy and more of what happened when I was trying to download Rockband songs.
It let me buy MS points at one point. Then it wouldn't let me buy anything.
It let me buy stuff. But it wouldn't let me download it.
It wouldn't even let me buy MS points at one point.
Buying something and then not being able to download it... how is that any different than paying for a service and then not being able to use it?
Just to be fair, isn't it a little dumb of you to keep tryingto doall this when the service is CLEARLY in the middle of having some issues?
I mean, conducting financial transactions when servers are unstable is just against common sense, you know?
They already had my money before I knew about the outages. I had already bought MS points. I just wanted to use them to buy RockBand songs. It let me for the first few songs, then it started the whole "you bought them, but you can't download them" bullshit.
And plus, it's never the customer's fault when something screws up like this. You can't say "you should have know better" when this is contradictory to the way the service has worked for the past 5 years.
The point is the Gold subscribers had to pay for a service that conked out on them whilst the silver folk couldn't really complain since it was free for them. The Gold subscribers in this instance should be the ones compensated, as opposed to all members of Live. What the heck are we paying for?!
Would you say if PS3 or Wii online service dropped completely for two weeks, the respective console owners would have no right to complain about it because they're not paying extra for it?
It depends on the situation. Like was stated above, if you have to be signed in through Live to access content you purchased (on another console as it broke), then they should compensate you somehow for the inconvenience. You paid for content and they are, in a way, denying you access to it.
If the Wii service went down and I could no longer play the VC games I had purchased, I would be ticked and I would complain. However, if it meant I couldn't play Strikers online, then I don't really have an argument worth complaining to Nintendo about, but I'm sure some would complain online at least. One involves money spent for a service that was disrupted. The other is a freebie that was unavailable at the time.
The former example is almost exactly what a number of Live Silver members are having trouble with. The way the 360's DRM works, an XBLA game is playable 1) on the console it's purchased on (regardless of gamertag/profile) and 2) with the gamertag that purchased it (regardless of console it's being played on). With 360 repairs/new systems bought, many people lose Option 1 and count on Option 2, which is contingent on Live being up. If you don't have Internet access or if the Live servers are down, then none of your XBLA games are accessible to you. You can apparently get on the horn and complain to MS customer service to get this remedied, but many people have been told that Option 2 is their only option.
What you are ignoring is that Live Gold members are affected by the EXACT SAME problem.
And plus, it's never the customer's fault when something screws up like this. You can't say "you should have know better" when this is contradictory to the way the service has worked for the past 5 years.
The fact is, everyone was without the service for a period of time, but some people were without a service that they PAY for, and deserve a higher compensation because of that, otherwise what exactly are they paying for?
Thats basically how I feel.
I know Silver members were inconvenienced. I know that. I am not retarded. You couldnt play all your XBLA games, ou couldnt play your movies, shit even some disc based games were fucking up because the 360 was getting assfucked by live.
Yes, Silver members deserve compensation. They do, as they have been inconvenienced.
However, Gold members pay for the ability to play online. This is in addition to all the little costs they we incur while downloading movies and XBLA games. We pay monthly.
So using that logic, I'm sorry, but Gold members deserve more than silver. It's as simple as that. Every little problem you silver members are complaining about affect us gold members too. Only we get additional problems for something that we pay for monthly.
Speaking of points, I tried to buy points last night to download the Halo Map Pack and it wouldnt let me. Microsoft stopped me from giving them money. Amazing.
EDIT: And whats with that shitty points system anyways? Whats wrong with using good, old fashioned US dollars as a currency? Things listed on the Playstation store have prices like $9.99.... not hard. On the other hand, something on the marketplace costs 800 points... what the fuck is that?
Just speaking for myself but often I'll spend MS points because my brain doesn't register them as being worth as much as say $9.99
I've bought countless XBLA titles because they "only" cost 800 points.
I've passed on many PSN titles because *gasp* omg they cost 9.99 !!!
Objectively I know there isn't a difference. But for some reason when I spend MS Points it feels like I'm spending "play money", whereas when I buy PSN titles it hurts more because I'm using my credit card right there on the spot.
The fact is, everyone was without the service for a period of time, but some people were without a service that they PAY for, and deserve a higher compensation because of that, otherwise what exactly are they paying for?
Thats basically how I feel.
I know Silver members were inconvenienced. I know that. I am not retarded. You couldnt play all your XBLA games, ou couldnt play your movies, shit even some disc based games were fucking up because the 360 was getting assfucked by live.
Yes, Silver members deserve compensation. They do, as they have been inconvenienced.
However, Gold members pay for the ability to play online. This is in addition to all the little costs they we incur while downloading movies and XBLA games. We pay monthly.
So using that logic, I'm sorry, but Gold members deserve more than silver. It's as simple as that. Every little problem you silver members are complaining about affect us gold members too. Only we get additional problems for something that we pay for monthly.
I think gold subscribers deserve 3 weeks of free gold. Then everyone deserves the free game. I really wish this is what Microsoft would do.
The fact is, everyone was without the service for a period of time, but some people were without a service that they PAY for, and deserve a higher compensation because of that, otherwise what exactly are they paying for?
Thats basically how I feel.
I know Silver members were inconvenienced. I know that. I am not retarded. You couldnt play all your XBLA games, ou couldnt play your movies, shit even some disc based games were fucking up because the 360 was getting assfucked by live.
Yes, Silver members deserve compensation. They do, as they have been inconvenienced.
However, Gold members pay for the ability to play online. This is in addition to all the little costs they we incur while downloading movies and XBLA games. We pay monthly.
So using that logic, I'm sorry, but Gold members deserve more than silver. It's as simple as that. Every little problem you silver members are complaining about affect us gold members too. Only we get additional problems for something that we pay for monthly.
tl;dr:
Everyone is equal, but Gold members are more equal.
Speaking of points, I tried to buy points last night to download the Halo Map Pack and it wouldnt let me. Microsoft stopped me from giving them money. Amazing.
EDIT: And whats with that shitty points system anyways? Whats wrong with using good, old fashioned US dollars as a currency? Things listed on the Playstation store have prices like $9.99.... not hard. On the other hand, something on the marketplace costs 800 points... what the fuck is that?
Just speaking for myself but often I'll spend MS points because my brain doesn't register them as being worth as much as say $9.99
I've bought countless XBLA titles because they "only" cost 800 points.
I've passed on many PSN titles because *gasp* omg they cost 9.99 !!!
Objectively I know there isn't a difference. But for some reason when I spend MS Points it feels like I'm spending "play money", whereas when I buy PSN titles it hurts more because I'm using my credit card right there on the spot.
PSN Doesn't seem to rape canadians nearly as badly as microsoft so i feel much better with the PSN store. With XBLA its "ok its 1200 microsoft points thats 15$ us annnddd... $rape canada..fuck you ms fuck you"
The fact is, everyone was without the service for a period of time, but some people were without a service that they PAY for, and deserve a higher compensation because of that, otherwise what exactly are they paying for?
Thats basically how I feel.
I know Silver members were inconvenienced. I know that. I am not retarded. You couldnt play all your XBLA games, ou couldnt play your movies, shit even some disc based games were fucking up because the 360 was getting assfucked by live.
Yes, Silver members deserve compensation. They do, as they have been inconvenienced.
However, Gold members pay for the ability to play online. This is in addition to all the little costs they we incur while downloading movies and XBLA games. We pay monthly.
So using that logic, I'm sorry, but Gold members deserve more than silver. It's as simple as that. Every little problem you silver members are complaining about affect us gold members too. Only we get additional problems for something that we pay for monthly.
I think gold subscribers deserve 3 weeks of free gold. Then everyone deserves the free game. I really wish this is what Microsoft would do.
Agreed.
Although, if they were smart about it, they would have given two or three weeks of free gold to EVERYONE, and then the free game only to gold members. That would be a great way to hook Silver folks on the gold service, andget them to pay.
Speaking of points, I tried to buy points last night to download the Halo Map Pack and it wouldnt let me. Microsoft stopped me from giving them money. Amazing.
EDIT: And whats with that shitty points system anyways? Whats wrong with using good, old fashioned US dollars as a currency? Things listed on the Playstation store have prices like $9.99.... not hard. On the other hand, something on the marketplace costs 800 points... what the fuck is that?
Just speaking for myself but often I'll spend MS points because my brain doesn't register them as being worth as much as say $9.99
I've bought countless XBLA titles because they "only" cost 800 points.
I've passed on many PSN titles because *gasp* omg they cost 9.99 !!!
Objectively I know there isn't a difference. But for some reason when I spend MS Points it feels like I'm spending "play money", whereas when I buy PSN titles it hurts more because I'm using my credit card right there on the spot.
So you're saying its all a diabolical plot by MS to get its users to spend their hard earned cash like it was monopoly money?
I know what youre saying... I went to many foreign countries when I was in the Navy and when I used to exchange US dollars for their currency it felt like I wasnt even spending my money... espeically when most other countries have colorful, goofy looking paper money.
MistaCreepy on
PS3: MistaCreepy::Steam: MistaCreepy::360: Dead and I don't feel like paying to fix it.
The game costs $6. Really, I think that covers everyone.
So you are saying that the money that I spent on a service I couldn't use has ABSOLUTELY zero value? I should ONLY be compensated for the free section of the service?
Speaking of points, I tried to buy points last night to download the Halo Map Pack and it wouldnt let me. Microsoft stopped me from giving them money. Amazing.
EDIT: And whats with that shitty points system anyways? Whats wrong with using good, old fashioned US dollars as a currency? Things listed on the Playstation store have prices like $9.99.... not hard. On the other hand, something on the marketplace costs 800 points... what the fuck is that?
Just speaking for myself but often I'll spend MS points because my brain doesn't register them as being worth as much as say $9.99
I've bought countless XBLA titles because they "only" cost 800 points.
I've passed on many PSN titles because *gasp* omg they cost 9.99 !!!
Objectively I know there isn't a difference. But for some reason when I spend MS Points it feels like I'm spending "play money", whereas when I buy PSN titles it hurts more because I'm using my credit card right there on the spot.
So you're saying its all a diabolical plot by MS to get its users to spend their hard earned cash like it was monopoly money?
Pretty much.
For all Live does right, the Microsoft Funbucks system is needlessly complex and annoying.
The point is the Gold subscribers had to pay for a service that conked out on them whilst the silver folk couldn't really complain since it was free for them. The Gold subscribers in this instance should be the ones compensated, as opposed to all members of Live. What the heck are we paying for?!
Would you say if PS3 or Wii online service dropped completely for two weeks, the respective console owners would have no right to complain about it because they're not paying extra for it?
It depends on the situation. Like was stated above, if you have to be signed in through Live to access content you purchased (on another console as it broke), then they should compensate you somehow for the inconvenience. You paid for content and they are, in a way, denying you access to it.
If the Wii service went down and I could no longer play the VC games I had purchased, I would be ticked and I would complain. However, if it meant I couldn't play Strikers online, then I don't really have an argument worth complaining to Nintendo about, but I'm sure some would complain online at least. One involves money spent for a service that was disrupted. The other is a freebie that was unavailable at the time.
The former example is almost exactly what a number of Live Silver members are having trouble with. The way the 360's DRM works, an XBLA game is playable 1) on the console it's purchased on (regardless of gamertag/profile) and 2) with the gamertag that purchased it (regardless of console it's being played on). With 360 repairs/new systems bought, many people lose Option 1 and count on Option 2, which is contingent on Live being up. If you don't have Internet access or if the Live servers are down, then none of your XBLA games are accessible to you. You can apparently get on the horn and complain to MS customer service to get this remedied, but many people have been told that Option 2 is their only option.
What you are ignoring is that Live Gold members are affected by the EXACT SAME problem.
But, on top of it, they also have MORE.
I know that Live Gold members have that problem -- which is why they're entitled to compensation as well. I'm taking issue with the "fuck Silver members, they don't deserve anything" statements from earlier. The question of degree of compensation is a different matter.
The point is the Gold subscribers had to pay for a service that conked out on them whilst the silver folk couldn't really complain since it was free for them. The Gold subscribers in this instance should be the ones compensated, as opposed to all members of Live. What the heck are we paying for?!
Would you say if PS3 or Wii online service dropped completely for two weeks, the respective console owners would have no right to complain about it because they're not paying extra for it?
It depends on the situation. Like was stated above, if you have to be signed in through Live to access content you purchased (on another console as it broke), then they should compensate you somehow for the inconvenience. You paid for content and they are, in a way, denying you access to it.
If the Wii service went down and I could no longer play the VC games I had purchased, I would be ticked and I would complain. However, if it meant I couldn't play Strikers online, then I don't really have an argument worth complaining to Nintendo about, but I'm sure some would complain online at least. One involves money spent for a service that was disrupted. The other is a freebie that was unavailable at the time.
The former example is almost exactly what a number of Live Silver members are having trouble with. The way the 360's DRM works, an XBLA game is playable 1) on the console it's purchased on (regardless of gamertag/profile) and 2) with the gamertag that purchased it (regardless of console it's being played on). With 360 repairs/new systems bought, many people lose Option 1 and count on Option 2, which is contingent on Live being up. If you don't have Internet access or if the Live servers are down, then none of your XBLA games are accessible to you. You can apparently get on the horn and complain to MS customer service to get this remedied, but many people have been told that Option 2 is their only option.
What you are ignoring is that Live Gold members are affected by the EXACT SAME problem.
But, on top of it, they also have MORE.
I know that Live Gold members have that problem -- which is why they're entitled to compensation as well. I'm taking issue with the "fuck Silver members, they don't deserve anything" statements from earlier. The question of degree of compensation is a different matter.
No one is opposed to the Silver Members getting something.
They are just opposed to them getting the same thing as Gold members.
The game costs $6. Really, I think that covers everyone.
So you are saying that the money that I spent on a service I couldn't use has ABSOLUTELY zero value? I should ONLY be compensated for the free section of the service?
What I was actually trying to say, and perhaps I wasn't very clear, was that the $6 value of a Live Arcade game more than covers the $3.75 price that Gold members pay, plus a couple of bucks extra. Silver Members get this for nothing. Everyone has been overcompensated insofar as an apologetic gesture of goodwill is concerned. If you've paid for something and you can't download it, you should obviously get those points back. This should be in addition to the game.
Jesus fucking CHRIST people. It's an internet-based service. Downtime is expected at some point. Microsoft doesn't have to do shit about this, but instead they're providing a free game to everyone who has connected their 360 to the internet. Maybe it's just because I've been playing an MMO for the last 3 years, but I never get my panties in a twist every time the service has issues for a few days. I just do something else.
Maybe someone else already said something like this, but I didn't read the thread past page 4. The senseless nerd rage levels were excessive even to me, who typically exemplifies nerd rage.
The game costs $6. Really, I think that covers everyone.
So you are saying that the money that I spent on a service I couldn't use has ABSOLUTELY zero value? I should ONLY be compensated for the free section of the service?
What I was actually trying to say, and perhaps I wasn't very clear, was that the $6 value of a Live Arcade game more than covers the $3.75 price that Gold members pay, plus a couple of bucks extra. Silver Members get this for nothing. Everyone has been overcompensated insofar as an apologetic gesture of goodwill is concerned. If you've paid for something and you can't download it, you should obviously get those points back. This should be in addition to the game.
and what I am saying is that Microsoft haschanged the value of the game by giving out for free to silver members. They have set the value of the game at "the inconvience of outages on the free service". That's perfectly fair and fine.
The issue is, while I get compensated for the inconvenience of outages to the free service, I'm still not being compensated for outages to the service that I pay for.
This reminded me of an article I read one time! http://www.sciencenews.org/articles/20030920/fob5.asp
It is about monkeys! And equity, or something.
tl;dr, If you give a monkey a grape and another monkey a cucumber, the cuke monkey will get pissed.
Moral: You are all monkeys. Dance.
I am just curious, what exactly are you Silver Members being compensated for? The service you already don't pay for? I don't want to hear any of this "Well, I bought the HDD..." crap either, because last I checked the XBL outage didn't affect your HDD. You should consider yourselves lucky that you are getting a free game for an interruption in a service you don't even pay for.
If MS decided not to compensate (ha) Silver members, I don't think there would be any grounds for an argument on their behalf, simply because the service they get is free.
I'm also of the opinion that I'm amazed Microsoft is even offering something to anyone for a week or two of outages (I haven't had any Rock Band or CoD4 problems, though I haven't played a whole lot online, either). It's very nice that they're doing so, though.
The thread title sounds like the name of a big cruiser. :P
Whenever Microsoft does have an armada, I hope all their ships are variations on the MS Apology, MS So Sorry, and the MS Commiserate. Nothing like being shelled by the "MS Forgive Us".
I am just curious, what exactly are you Silver Members being compensated for? The service you already don't pay for? I don't want to hear any of this "Well, I bought the HDD..." crap either, because last I checked the XBL outage didn't affect your HDD. You should consider yourselves lucky that you are getting a free game for an interruption in a service you don't even pay for.
If MS decided not to compensate (ha) Silver members, I don't think there would be any grounds for an argument on their behalf, simply because the service they get is free.
I'm also of the opinion that I'm amazed Microsoft is even offering something to anyone for a week or two of outages (I haven't had any Rock Band or CoD4 problems, though I haven't played a whole lot online, either). It's very nice that they're doing so, though.
Yes, those were immediateemotional reactions to the factthat Gold members get no more compensation that silver members. I am sure that if those two posters were asked, they would have no issue with everyone getting something, but gold members getting more.
I don't get it. Microsoft is offering a "ya, we know you're all pissed that the service was down for a while, here's something free for you" and people are actually pissed that EVERYONE is getting it, instead of only SOME people?
They are doing some really good customer service here, and people are pissed off about it.....I just don't get it.
EDIT: Also, they didn't have to offer anyone fuck all if they wanted. They could have told everyone to fuck off, and mention that their service ran for FIVE FUCKING YEARS without a problem. I think that for 2 weeks of downtime in 5 years, to give everyone a free game is pretty amazing on their part.
As I stated, my point was that if MS chose not to offer anything to Silver accounts, the Silver accounts don't have any basis to form an argument against that. I hope they do get something, because more people playing games is a good thing.
Posts
Just to throw my experience yesterday into the ring;
I've been a Gold member since 360 launch day Dec 5th 2005.
My 2 yearly Live Gold subscription, plus original free month ran out last night - Jan 5th 2008.
As of right now, and for the first day since I got my 360 I am a Silver user. Last night, try as many times as I liked, I could not access the 360 dash, or the Marketplace (to renew my Gold status) or access any of the Live Arcade titles, movie (HD 300) and full-game DLC I have payed for and own, due to shitty DRM issues which have never been resolved since my original 360 RROD'd. If, for one second, I thought I was going to be entitled to any less compensation as a "Silver" user, I would be seriously pissed off.
As it happens, I've gone and bought another 12 months of Live Gold today, and I'm about to try my 360 again. As I found out last night - promotional 48-hour codes cannot be entered via xbox.com - only purchased subscription cards. So if the 360 fails me, at least I can *hopefully* use the website.
So yeah, any and all Silver users should get full compensation equal to Gold users, just to avoid the plethora of "special case" situations like my own, caused by a nasty combination of fuck-ups on Microsofts part, further compounding a problem (RROD + bad DRM + Live outage = utter fail).
A free game would be great, and I'd certainly forgive the hassle and inconvenience I went through yesterday, as Live has been a fantastic service until this hiccup. I can only hope it is not something I already own, and that my one day spent as a Silver member will not throw a spanner in the works somewhere else down the line...
Would you say if PS3 or Wii online service dropped completely for two weeks, the respective console owners would have no right to complain about it because they're not paying extra for it?
Ummm...
Microsoft has records to show who was a gold member DURING that time period.
It depends on the situation. Like was stated above, if you have to be signed in through Live to access content you purchased (on another console as it broke), then they should compensate you somehow for the inconvenience. You paid for content and they are, in a way, denying you access to it.
If the Wii service went down and I could no longer play the VC games I had purchased, I would be ticked and I would complain. However, if it meant I couldn't play Strikers online, then I don't really have an argument worth complaining to Nintendo about, but I'm sure some would complain online at least. One involves money spent for a service that was disrupted. The other is a freebie that was unavailable at the time.
I already have it. But I would support that because all humanity must play Pac-Man CE.
I DARE some one to call Steve Balmer about all of this.
It's like (again, lets use the restaurant example) I go to a steakhouse and order a steak. The waiter acts like everything's fine. For some reason you have to pay up front, but no big deal, it's suppose to be a good steak. Then the waiter comes back to the table 15 minutes later and says "SORRY, WE COULDN'T CONNECT YOU TO OUR COOK, YOU'LL HAVE TO COME BACK AND GET YOUR STEAK SOME OTHER TIME! WE CAN'T REFUND YOUR MONEY. YOU JUST HAVE TO GET YOUR STEAK SOME OTHER TIME!".
So you leave and come back. You get your steak that you already paid for and eat it. It's so good that you decide to forgive the awful service last time.
So you leave and come back again, this time everything looks like it's going fine, but when you try to pay, the waiter just looks at you and yells "SORRY, WE COULDN'T ACCEPT YOUR CASH RIGHT NOW, OUR REGISTER'S BROKEN! PLEASE COME BACK ANOTHER TIME!"
This is what was going on with buying DLC for games and XBLA games. It was bullshit, and I damned well expect them to compensate me for their service being a pain in the ass the last several days.
Yes, Gold member deserve these last two weeks refunded back to them, but the WHOLE of Live deserves to be compensated, not just gold members.
PortsCenter • Jump Leads • The Life Toyetic with Ben and Molly
The only problem I have with it is I wish there was a way to save replays. I spent about an hour last night trying to master one level and by the end of the hour, the stunts and tricks I was employing to shave time off my score were epic.
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In fact, it was so bad, it was like when you go to a Restaurant, and order a steak, but instead get a bad analogy on your plate, and then the restaurant is all "Have Metal Slug 3 for free bitches!"
It's less of an analogy and more of what happened when I was trying to download Rockband songs.
It let me buy MS points at one point. Then it wouldn't let me buy anything.
It let me buy stuff. But it wouldn't let me download it.
It wouldn't even let me buy MS points at one point.
Buying something and then not being able to download it... how is that any different than paying for a service and then not being able to use it?
EDIT: And whats with that shitty points system anyways? Whats wrong with using good, old fashioned US dollars as a currency? Things listed on the Playstation store have prices like $9.99.... not hard. On the other hand, something on the marketplace costs 800 points... what the fuck is that?
Just to be fair, isn't it a little dumb of you to keep tryingto doall this when the service is CLEARLY in the middle of having some issues?
I mean, conducting financial transactions when servers are unstable is just against common sense, you know?
The former example is almost exactly what a number of Live Silver members are having trouble with. The way the 360's DRM works, an XBLA game is playable 1) on the console it's purchased on (regardless of gamertag/profile) and 2) with the gamertag that purchased it (regardless of console it's being played on). With 360 repairs/new systems bought, many people lose Option 1 and count on Option 2, which is contingent on Live being up. If you don't have Internet access or if the Live servers are down, then none of your XBLA games are accessible to you. You can apparently get on the horn and complain to MS customer service to get this remedied, but many people have been told that Option 2 is their only option.
Hey, snap. We should be blood brothers or something.
PortsCenter • Jump Leads • The Life Toyetic with Ben and Molly
They already had my money before I knew about the outages. I had already bought MS points. I just wanted to use them to buy RockBand songs. It let me for the first few songs, then it started the whole "you bought them, but you can't download them" bullshit.
And plus, it's never the customer's fault when something screws up like this. You can't say "you should have know better" when this is contradictory to the way the service has worked for the past 5 years.
What you are ignoring is that Live Gold members are affected by the EXACT SAME problem.
But, on top of it, they also have MORE.
Did I say it was your fault?
I called you dumb, yes, but I didn't blame you.
Thats basically how I feel.
I know Silver members were inconvenienced. I know that. I am not retarded. You couldnt play all your XBLA games, ou couldnt play your movies, shit even some disc based games were fucking up because the 360 was getting assfucked by live.
Yes, Silver members deserve compensation. They do, as they have been inconvenienced.
However, Gold members pay for the ability to play online. This is in addition to all the little costs they we incur while downloading movies and XBLA games. We pay monthly.
So using that logic, I'm sorry, but Gold members deserve more than silver. It's as simple as that. Every little problem you silver members are complaining about affect us gold members too. Only we get additional problems for something that we pay for monthly.
Just speaking for myself but often I'll spend MS points because my brain doesn't register them as being worth as much as say $9.99
I've bought countless XBLA titles because they "only" cost 800 points.
I've passed on many PSN titles because *gasp* omg they cost 9.99 !!!
Objectively I know there isn't a difference. But for some reason when I spend MS Points it feels like I'm spending "play money", whereas when I buy PSN titles it hurts more because I'm using my credit card right there on the spot.
I think gold subscribers deserve 3 weeks of free gold. Then everyone deserves the free game. I really wish this is what Microsoft would do.
tl;dr:
Everyone is equal, but Gold members are more equal.
Agreed.
Although, if they were smart about it, they would have given two or three weeks of free gold to EVERYONE, and then the free game only to gold members. That would be a great way to hook Silver folks on the gold service, andget them to pay.
So you're saying its all a diabolical plot by MS to get its users to spend their hard earned cash like it was monopoly money?
I know what youre saying... I went to many foreign countries when I was in the Navy and when I used to exchange US dollars for their currency it felt like I wasnt even spending my money... espeically when most other countries have colorful, goofy looking paper money.
PortsCenter • Jump Leads • The Life Toyetic with Ben and Molly
So you are saying that the money that I spent on a service I couldn't use has ABSOLUTELY zero value? I should ONLY be compensated for the free section of the service?
Pretty much.
For all Live does right, the Microsoft Funbucks system is needlessly complex and annoying.
Think of the steakhouse being on fire while you order.
The thread title sounds like the name of a big cruiser. :P
I know that Live Gold members have that problem -- which is why they're entitled to compensation as well. I'm taking issue with the "fuck Silver members, they don't deserve anything" statements from earlier. The question of degree of compensation is a different matter.
No one is opposed to the Silver Members getting something.
They are just opposed to them getting the same thing as Gold members.
What I was actually trying to say, and perhaps I wasn't very clear, was that the $6 value of a Live Arcade game more than covers the $3.75 price that Gold members pay, plus a couple of bucks extra. Silver Members get this for nothing. Everyone has been overcompensated insofar as an apologetic gesture of goodwill is concerned. If you've paid for something and you can't download it, you should obviously get those points back. This should be in addition to the game.
PortsCenter • Jump Leads • The Life Toyetic with Ben and Molly
Maybe someone else already said something like this, but I didn't read the thread past page 4. The senseless nerd rage levels were excessive even to me, who typically exemplifies nerd rage.
and what I am saying is that Microsoft haschanged the value of the game by giving out for free to silver members. They have set the value of the game at "the inconvience of outages on the free service". That's perfectly fair and fine.
The issue is, while I get compensated for the inconvenience of outages to the free service, I'm still not being compensated for outages to the service that I pay for.
http://www.sciencenews.org/articles/20030920/fob5.asp
It is about monkeys! And equity, or something.
tl;dr, If you give a monkey a grape and another monkey a cucumber, the cuke monkey will get pissed.
Moral: You are all monkeys. Dance.
It's not what you're arguing, but there are at least a few.
I'm also of the opinion that I'm amazed Microsoft is even offering something to anyone for a week or two of outages (I haven't had any Rock Band or CoD4 problems, though I haven't played a whole lot online, either). It's very nice that they're doing so, though.
Whenever Microsoft does have an armada, I hope all their ships are variations on the MS Apology, MS So Sorry, and the MS Commiserate. Nothing like being shelled by the "MS Forgive Us".
Yes, those were immediateemotional reactions to the factthat Gold members get no more compensation that silver members. I am sure that if those two posters were asked, they would have no issue with everyone getting something, but gold members getting more.
As I stated, my point was that if MS chose not to offer anything to Silver accounts, the Silver accounts don't have any basis to form an argument against that. I hope they do get something, because more people playing games is a good thing.
Don't get so worked up and dramatic about it.
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