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D&D 4th Edition: 1 day until multiclassing Preview. (38)

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Posts

  • INeedNoSaltINeedNoSalt with blood on my teeth Registered User regular
    edited January 2008
    What is wrong with the halfings D:

    INeedNoSalt on
  • HorseshoeHorseshoe Registered User regular
    edited January 2008
    Eh, armor is hardly ever realistic in fantasy art.

    Especially on the wimmenz.

    The fan base doesn't complain much about that one though.

    Horseshoe on
    dmsigsmallek3.jpg
  • InquisitorInquisitor Registered User regular
    edited January 2008
    I flipped through the races and classes book briefly during my stop at the local comic book store and honestly I was really let down. It looked like WoW-inspired trashy fan art to me.

    Inquisitor on
  • NORNOR Registered User regular
    edited January 2008
    What is wrong with the halfings D:

    Nothing is wrong with the halflings, it's the art that is bad. It's all impossibly stiff and full of shoddy shading and the anatomy is all fucking wrong.

    NOR on
    Swehehehehehahahahahahahahahawhawhawhaw
  • InquisitorInquisitor Registered User regular
    edited January 2008
    Horseshoe wrote: »
    Eh, armor is hardly ever realistic in fantasy art.

    Especially on the wimmenz.

    The fan base doesn't complain much about that one though.

    I hate how fantasy armor looks on women. Though yeah, most people don't complain.

    I tend to like my armor looking more realistic then completely fantastic. It just appeals to me from a style perspective.

    Inquisitor on
  • INeedNoSaltINeedNoSalt with blood on my teeth Registered User regular
    edited January 2008
    I like fantastic armor.

    I like fantastic armor that makes my warriors into juggernauts.

    INeedNoSalt on
  • InquisitorInquisitor Registered User regular
    edited January 2008
    I like fantastic armor.

    I like fantastic armor that makes my warriors into juggernauts.

    And one of the awesome things about D&D is both of us can play a campaign and you can imagine everything in a style that pleases you, while I visualize everything in a style that makes me happy.

    WoW gave me my fill on stupid armor designs and pointless large shoulder pads for the rest of my life, methinks. Of course, just my opinion.

    Inquisitor on
  • VoraciousAardvarkVoraciousAardvark Registered User regular
    edited January 2008
    Well, apparently cornrows and dreads are all the rage with halflings now, and their legs bend in strange ways, unfamiliar to other races. Or the artist is a retard, take your pick. As for the cool stuff, halflings now weigh more than a toddler and have a thriving rivertrade of boat building, fishing and other neat stuff. They really added a lot of neat fluff to halfling culture, and I'm digging it.

    VoraciousAardvark on
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  • OhtheVogonityOhtheVogonity Registered User regular
    edited January 2008
    Yeah, again, I'll shut the hell up. I'm excited about Halflings. Please discuss.

    I guess the question is, why are you excited about halflings?

    Me? I'm always excited about halflings. They've always had a certain amount of charm and humor to themselves that helps combat the urge to make every thing in the game serious business. Of course, in my mind, I'm now thinking about an expert tactician halfling warlord who keeps detailed maps and a spyglass with him at all times. He can even ride a Dire Weasel or something appropriately awesome.

    I know they've been repurposed as river gypsies that enable trade throughout the land, and have become yet larger again, with a slimmer build. I'm not necessarily opposed to further distancing themselves from Tolkien's hobbits, who are more precious than anything else. They seem to be verging on a sort of kender/hobbit smash-up which I don't know if I'm completely comfortable with. All in all, I don't think I feel great about the fluff/aesthetic decisions being made.

    I guess that is mostly in regards to the races they've chosen to release on the first go. I understand that they are struggling with a unique niche for gnomes, but are they really putting off half orcs because of the implications of their lineage? They certainly aren't a sacred cow or anything, but that seems like an awful silly reason to ditch a race that has been a part of the game for a long time for the likes of Dragonborn of Tielfling which smell like munchkins from a mile away.

    I understand why they're included. People are always asking for a nifty/exotic player race, and it makes as much sense to include in the core rules instead of forcing DMs to try and rig up a race of fucking cat people for one of his players (why is it never dog people?). Maybe I"m just a sentimental fuck who can't handle change, but this one isn't one of my favorites.

    OhtheVogonity on
    Oh freddled gruntbuggly...thy micturations are to me/ As plurdled gabbleblotchits on a lurgid bee
  • INeedNoSaltINeedNoSalt with blood on my teeth Registered User regular
    edited January 2008
    Inquisitor wrote: »
    I like fantastic armor.

    I like fantastic armor that makes my warriors into juggernauts.

    And one of the awesome things about D&D is both of us can play a campaign and you can imagine everything in a style that pleases you, while I visualize everything in a style that makes me happy.

    WoW gave me my fill on stupid armor designs and pointless large shoulder pads for the rest of my life, methinks. Of course, just my opinion.

    I loved the Valor armor. Whenever I picture a warrior in plate, that is what they are wearing. Because it's awesome.

    INeedNoSalt on
  • InquisitorInquisitor Registered User regular
    edited January 2008
    I know I will probably catch some flack for this, but removing half-orcs because they are a product of rape just seems weird to me. Yes, rape is terrible and awful and I would wish it on no one. But we are talking about a world here where there are races like orcs that just slaughter people in droves or enslave them, which is terrible and awful and also something I would never wish on anyone.

    I don't know, a marauding band of orks going around just pillaging and not raping seems hollow.

    Inquisitor on
  • HorseshoeHorseshoe Registered User regular
    edited January 2008
    are they putting half-orcs off or just not including them?

    really, the dragonborn thing seems okay enough to me. if they put them in some supplement later that was all about dragons i'd probably just pass on it... this way i get to see a full treatment of something i might ordinarily not.

    plus... y'know... dungeons and dragons... might as well make it more dragony.

    Horseshoe on
    dmsigsmallek3.jpg
  • VoraciousAardvarkVoraciousAardvark Registered User regular
    edited January 2008
    OhtheVogonity, I'm always excited about halflings myself. But other than the fact that their hair apparently naturally grows into dreadlocks, I'm really excited with the new focus. I've always had a soft spot for neat halfling characters that can be completely serious characters, but have that one point of interest or quirk that puts a smile on other player's faces when played well. I stayed away from halflings in eberron because I wasn't really into the whole dinosaur riding nomad thing. Yeah, boomerangs are the shit and all, but I didn't dig the rest. I hope we get some neat new racial weapons that aren't just more gnome double hammers.

    VoraciousAardvark on
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  • HorseshoeHorseshoe Registered User regular
    edited January 2008
    Inquisitor wrote: »
    I know I will probably catch some flack for this, but removing half-orcs because they are a product of rape just seems weird to me. Yes, rape is terrible and awful and I would wish it on no one. But we are talking about a world here where there are races like orcs that just slaughter people in droves or enslave them, which is terrible and awful and also something I would never wish on anyone.

    I don't know, a marauding band of orks going around just pillaging and not raping seems hollow.

    orcs and humans having viable offspring seems somehow... infeasible.

    plus, can't really imagine anyone surviving that anyway.

    much less half-giants or half-ogres. i mean, what the fuck.

    Horseshoe on
    dmsigsmallek3.jpg
  • NORNOR Registered User regular
    edited January 2008
    Half-orcs are getting a full race wright up in DDI shortly after the game comes out.

    It's not just the rape implications. There are space considerations, remember race matters now and this can only mean it takes more space to get the damn things fully fleshed out. If you've got space considerations you're going to have to leave something in the dust, and the strong race that's produced via rape isn't going to be able to compete with Dragon men.

    I'm tired, that might not have been totally coherent.

    NOR on
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  • Undead ScottsmanUndead Scottsman Registered User regular
    edited January 2008
    Horseshoe wrote: »
    are they putting half-orcs off or just not including them?

    really, the dragonborn thing seems okay enough to me. if they put them in some supplement later that was all about dragons i'd probably just pass on it... this way i get to see a full treatment of something i might ordinarily not.

    plus... y'know... dungeons and dragons... might as well make it more dragony.

    IIRC, Half-Orcs will be out shortly after the core books, on the Dungeons and Dragons Insider. (I.E. you'll need to pay a monthly fee)

    Undead Scottsman on
  • OhtheVogonityOhtheVogonity Registered User regular
    edited January 2008
    Inquisitor wrote: »

    I don't know, a marauding band of orks going around just pillaging and not raping seems hollow.

    Exactly! Do orcs not rape anymore? Are orcs cut from the first slate of books to, because of their raping tendencies? That seems highly dubious. So the act in question is still in the game, but they choose to pussyfoot around it in just one facet of it? I'm sure it's to try and avoid flak from concerned parents, but with Harry Potter and WoW commercials with honest to goodness celebrities on television now, I think we might be starting to get over this fear of high fantasy as a nation.

    Besides, don't people dig having a dark past? I thought almost everyone has made at least one character with a haunting past.

    OhtheVogonity on
    Oh freddled gruntbuggly...thy micturations are to me/ As plurdled gabbleblotchits on a lurgid bee
  • NORNOR Registered User regular
    edited January 2008
    Horseshoe wrote: »
    are they putting half-orcs off or just not including them?

    really, the dragonborn thing seems okay enough to me. if they put them in some supplement later that was all about dragons i'd probably just pass on it... this way i get to see a full treatment of something i might ordinarily not.

    plus... y'know... dungeons and dragons... might as well make it more dragony.

    IIRC, Half-Orcs will be out shortly after the core books, on the Dungeons and Dragons Insider. (I.E. you'll need to pay a monthly fee)

    We'll at least once.

    NOR on
    Swehehehehehahahahahahahahahawhawhawhaw
  • HorseshoeHorseshoe Registered User regular
    edited January 2008
    Inquisitor wrote: »
    I like fantastic armor.

    I like fantastic armor that makes my warriors into juggernauts.

    And one of the awesome things about D&D is both of us can play a campaign and you can imagine everything in a style that pleases you, while I visualize everything in a style that makes me happy.

    WoW gave me my fill on stupid armor designs and pointless large shoulder pads for the rest of my life, methinks. Of course, just my opinion.

    I loved the Valor armor. Whenever I picture a warrior in plate, that is what they are wearing. Because it's awesome.

    Wasn't big on the WoW in-game stuff... but I really like the Warcraft art from the game manuals.

    Horseshoe on
    dmsigsmallek3.jpg
  • OhtheVogonityOhtheVogonity Registered User regular
    edited January 2008
    Okay, okay, I'll relent with my pining after half-orcs with the news of their subsequent release shortly after launch. But that doesn't mean I won't give WoTC the silent treatment for a while.

    Bastards

    OhtheVogonity on
    Oh freddled gruntbuggly...thy micturations are to me/ As plurdled gabbleblotchits on a lurgid bee
  • INeedNoSaltINeedNoSalt with blood on my teeth Registered User regular
    edited January 2008
    Horseshoe wrote: »
    Inquisitor wrote: »
    I like fantastic armor.

    I like fantastic armor that makes my warriors into juggernauts.

    And one of the awesome things about D&D is both of us can play a campaign and you can imagine everything in a style that pleases you, while I visualize everything in a style that makes me happy.

    WoW gave me my fill on stupid armor designs and pointless large shoulder pads for the rest of my life, methinks. Of course, just my opinion.

    I loved the Valor armor. Whenever I picture a warrior in plate, that is what they are wearing. Because it's awesome.

    Wasn't big on the WoW in-game stuff... but I really like the Warcraft art from the game manuals.

    I'm not a huge fan of the in-game stuff, either. But Valor armor is iron-colored heavy armor. It looks good. I'm not sayin, like, Dreadnaught armor, because that kind of thing is pretty retarded.

    (Well, that's Heroism, not Valor, but it's still badass.)

    INeedNoSalt on
  • DisruptorX2DisruptorX2 Registered User regular
    edited January 2008
    Horseshoe wrote: »
    Inquisitor wrote: »
    I like fantastic armor.

    I like fantastic armor that makes my warriors into juggernauts.

    And one of the awesome things about D&D is both of us can play a campaign and you can imagine everything in a style that pleases you, while I visualize everything in a style that makes me happy.

    WoW gave me my fill on stupid armor designs and pointless large shoulder pads for the rest of my life, methinks. Of course, just my opinion.

    I loved the Valor armor. Whenever I picture a warrior in plate, that is what they are wearing. Because it's awesome.

    Wasn't big on the WoW in-game stuff... but I really like the Warcraft art from the game manuals.

    The paladin/warrior pvp armour, being a direct adaptation of the fucking God-Emperor of Mankind's armour, is definitely on of the high points. That and the Destroyer of Worlds sword are the only things I would adapt to other settings. I'm long done with WoW, and I find the setting to be sickening from a background lore standpoint, but I did like the graphic style, despite the obvious anime roots.

    The God Emperor:
    Emperor.jpg

    My old WoW character modelling the warcraft version of it:
    wow1.jpg

    The Destroyer of Worlds:
    destroyer.jpg

    I'm thinking of including a version of that sword forged from bone in my next campaign, though it will likely never be used by the PCs themselves.

    DisruptorX2 on
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  • INeedNoSaltINeedNoSalt with blood on my teeth Registered User regular
    edited January 2008
    That sword is so fucking ugly. I've got no idea where an anime influence fits into WoW, what the heck?
    Inquisitor wrote: »

    I don't know, a marauding band of orks going around just pillaging and not raping seems hollow.

    Exactly! Do orcs not rape anymore? Are orcs cut from the first slate of books to, because of their raping tendencies? That seems highly dubious. So the act in question is still in the game, but they choose to pussyfoot around it in just one facet of it? I'm sure it's to try and avoid flak from concerned parents, but with Harry Potter and WoW commercials with honest to goodness celebrities on television now, I think we might be starting to get over this fear of high fantasy as a nation.

    Besides, don't people dig having a dark past? I thought almost everyone has made at least one character with a haunting past.

    I also wasn't aware 'lol rape' was one of the major facets of orcdom.

    INeedNoSalt on
  • DisruptorX2DisruptorX2 Registered User regular
    edited January 2008
    That sword is so fucking ugly. I've got no idea where an anime influence fits into WoW, what the heck?
    Inquisitor wrote: »

    I don't know, a marauding band of orks going around just pillaging and not raping seems hollow.

    Exactly! Do orcs not rape anymore? Are orcs cut from the first slate of books to, because of their raping tendencies? That seems highly dubious. So the act in question is still in the game, but they choose to pussyfoot around it in just one facet of it? I'm sure it's to try and avoid flak from concerned parents, but with Harry Potter and WoW commercials with honest to goodness celebrities on television now, I think we might be starting to get over this fear of high fantasy as a nation.

    Besides, don't people dig having a dark past? I thought almost everyone has made at least one character with a haunting past.

    I also wasn't aware 'lol rape' was one of the major facets of orcdom.

    Given the huge numbers of half orcs in 3e? Where else are they coming from?

    DisruptorX2 on
    1208768734831.jpg
  • INeedNoSaltINeedNoSalt with blood on my teeth Registered User regular
    edited January 2008
    How do we know their numbers were huge?

    INeedNoSalt on
  • DisruptorX2DisruptorX2 Registered User regular
    edited January 2008
    How do we know their numbers were huge?

    No clue. In any event, orcs are barbarians, and well, thats what barbarians do. I wouldn't really include it in my campaigns though, this isn't FATAL.

    DisruptorX2 on
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  • HorseshoeHorseshoe Registered User regular
    edited January 2008
    pig and elephant dna just don't splice

    Horseshoe on
    dmsigsmallek3.jpg
  • OhtheVogonityOhtheVogonity Registered User regular
    edited January 2008
    I don't think rape needs to be a major part any game, but if it's all adults sitting at the table, do you pretend that it doesn't exist?

    I can understand ignoring, or leaving it as just implied.

    But it seems to have happened an awful lot throughout history and even fantasy literature whenever barbarous types pillage.

    I'm by no means in any sort of camp with "lol raping", but I don't think I should be asked to check knowledge at the door.

    In other news: I'll miss gnomes, but that might just further my fixation on halflings.

    OhtheVogonity on
    Oh freddled gruntbuggly...thy micturations are to me/ As plurdled gabbleblotchits on a lurgid bee
  • IncenjucarIncenjucar VChatter Seattle, WARegistered User regular
    edited January 2008
    Anime influence wouldn't be so bad if it was more Vampire Hunter D and less FF7.

    Thankfully, I haven't seen any buster swords since 3E, and at least one of those was magical enough that it could be shrugged off.

    --

    Also: Updated my roster list. Hopefully some more DMs will snag some players when this all rolls around. I should be able to handle two full campaigns without too much trouble, but good lord, there's now enough hopeful players for up to FOUR campaigns. (If I missed anyone, PM me)

    Incenjucar on
  • CantideCantide Registered User regular
    edited January 2008
    I always thought it was kind of silly to have half-elves and half-orcs as standard races. I mean, if you're going to present human/elves and human/orcs as if they were distinct races, what about gnome/elves or dwarf/halfings or what not?

    It makes more sense to me to just give each race rules for partial race bloodlines. Like, for example, anyone who's half a 4E elf might get just the perception aura, while anyone who's half a 4E human might get just an extra feat. You put the two races together and you've got a half-elf, whose racial traits are a perception aura and a bonus feat. It would be easy to mix-and-match any two races, instead of only having official hybrids.

    Cantide on
  • IncenjucarIncenjucar VChatter Seattle, WARegistered User regular
    edited January 2008
    Honestly, I just prefer to avoid the half races thing in general at this point. When they pop up, if they pop up, they should be a big deal, which just isn't possible if they're a fricking core race.

    That said, Muls from Dark Sun did half-races right. That's some good stuff.

    Incenjucar on
  • OhtheVogonityOhtheVogonity Registered User regular
    edited January 2008
    Perhaps we could just all kick in five bucks and you can be a full-time DM. Right?

    Abolishing half-breeds seems like an even better idea, now that you guys bring it up. I know one of the big ideas with this edition is to make race much more important, with scaling powers as you advance. So just smacking two things together would seem counter to that train of thought. Besides, I don't buy half-elves as having a natural "inspiring presence". Sounds more like they couldn't think of something better.

    Holy jesus I am up way too late attuning with my geek side. Man.

    OhtheVogonity on
    Oh freddled gruntbuggly...thy micturations are to me/ As plurdled gabbleblotchits on a lurgid bee
  • delrolanddelroland Registered User regular
    edited January 2008
    I think, along with the other D&D test campaigns, we have a one-on-one PvP tourney, gladiator-pit style. They are striving for balance across the classes as far as utlility in versus-monster combat, but I wonder how the classes will stack up when facing each other. This would be especially easy if the DDI-VT is half of what they promise it to be.

    delroland on
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  • InquisitorInquisitor Registered User regular
    edited January 2008
    I am totally fine with half races being dropped. All they have to really say is "Well, on a biological level these races just can't physically produce any offspring" and bam, that half race is gone. The only way it would work is like with dragons and polymorph spells, which would make the half-races rare as all hell.

    In that way they wouldn't really have to flat out be like "Yeah, orcs rape people" and it could just be more implied. And I'm fine with that, as I realize D&D targets a wide age group.

    Also, I am totally down for some pit fighting for fun.

    Inquisitor on
  • ToothyToothy Registered User regular
    edited January 2008
    One of my whole deals is that I don't really think the "half-dragon" thing is very plausible. Wouldn't, their, uh, junk polymorph, too? Or do they just have magic sperm?

    Toothy on
  • InquisitorInquisitor Registered User regular
    edited January 2008
    jdarksun wrote: »
    Wait, WTF? No more Half-Orcs? All all the hybrids gone?

    What race gives +2 str now?

    None of the half races are in the PHB. Though they might show up in other books like the PHBII and what not.
    Considering no race gives minuses to abilities anymore, and elves get +2 dex, +2 wisdom, I wouldn't be surprised if some race gets +2 str now. Like maybe humans or dwarves.

    Inquisitor on
  • ArkadyArkady Registered User regular
    edited January 2008
    Inquisitor wrote: »
    jdarksun wrote: »
    Wait, WTF? No more Half-Orcs? All all the hybrids gone?

    What race gives +2 str now?

    None of the half races are in the PHB. Though they might show up in other books like the PHBII and what not.
    Considering no race gives minuses to abilities anymore, and elves get +2 dex, +2 wisdom, I wouldn't be surprised if some race gets +2 str now. Like maybe humans or dwarves.

    I'd hedge my bets with dragonborn getting a str mod. Dwarves strike me as likely to get con and wis.

    Arkady on
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  • InquisitorInquisitor Registered User regular
    edited January 2008
    I keep forgetting that Dragonborn are going to be a race now. Yeah, they are most likely to get the strength bonus.

    Jdarksun: Races are like, a huge deal now. Only stat bonuses, skill bonuses, special racial abilities, race only feats, race only class options etc etc.

    Inquisitor on
  • Inglorious CoyoteInglorious Coyote Registered User regular
    edited January 2008
    My biggest hope is that they fix Fighters to be somewhat equal to the casting classes.

    The couple times I played 3.5 it was always the same, around 12th level or so the Fighter becomes pretty much useless as the Clerics/Wizards/Druids start getting their big mojo and make the Fighter pretty obsolete.

    But with what I'm hearing I'm hopeful. And maybe Fighters will get some decent skill choices this time as well?

    Inglorious Coyote on
  • Professor PhobosProfessor Phobos Registered User regular
    edited January 2008
    We took a poll to see what kind of game people were looking to play, so we could sort people into like minded groups, to more easily suit their needs. About 2 people out of 40+ wanted to be the all powerful heroes that saved the world.

    I'm not saying you're wrong, or it doesn't exist, this is just the first time I've encountered that particular mindset.


    You guys are talking past each other. The other guy is not saying they want to be all powerful, they just want to be the ones who solve whatever problem the game is about. Central figures of the conflict.

    Take the Innkeeper. A retired level 12 adventurer running an Inn in a town that's seen a series of Werewolf attacks. Now the Level 3 PCs are heading on through investigating the Werewolf- but wait! Our Level 12 friend just dealt with it without breaking a sweat!

    Take the same town. The PCs arrive to deal with the werewolf- and our Innkeeper friend offers them some advice and a silver sword, saying "It's not my world anymore" or something like that. He's still level 12, still badass, but he's not stealing the PC's thunder- he's just contributing to the story.

    Even better- then (or perhaps later), some dread enemy from his past comes up and destroys him. The PCs, who liked the guy, recognize that this enemy must be more powerful than they are. Being heroes, they set off on the trail of clues it leaves behind, getting into all sorts of adventures along the way, finally confronting the Terrible Evil that so Viciously Attacked their Friend...

    From a world-building perspective, it doesn't matter if there are powerful NPCs in the setting, just that all the on screen action is centered around the PCs. If the PCs are facing the Dread Lord, Elminster doesn't show up to deal with it for them. If the PCs fail, the Dread Lords wins. That doesn't mean Elminster's not punching the Murder God in the balls somewhere else- but it's off screen so it's irrelevant. Elminster's cameos in Baldur's Gate is a good rubrick; he gives cryptic advice, tosses you a magic item, but he's not stealing all your screen time.

    Take Rome. Cassus and Pullo are not the most important people in the world, they're not all powerful, but by god when they're on screen they're doing something interesting!

    Professor Phobos on
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