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Inside Source Reveal the Truth About Xbox 360 "Red Ring of Death" Failures
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What about my former boss? My friend? Me? All of us kept ours horizontal from the get-go. All of us had ours in a ventilated area [mine was on top of a 5 foot tall cabinet]. You can't seriously think that the majority of people who had console problems kept theirs rammed in a tight space, can you? Additionally, I'm pretty sure that the console was marketed as vertical play/storage capable.
Just because you were lucky with your console doesn't mean you should be smug towards everyone else.
Your serial number is linked to your RMA claim. I'm pretty sure that's how they determine who to send it back to.
Because you're lucky.
Edit: h5 archon
Not completely. But it is no less valid to take a pool of 10-20 people, realize that every person of that sampling who has had to replace their 360 store it in a rather stupid way while those in the sampling who had no issues stored it in a different manner, and then link those facts than it is to use the my five friends crap repeated all over this thread and this subject in general.
My comment is far less anecdotal than "I know me three friends and they all lost 360s!" That comment is generally allowed. Using a thread that shows a common trait for 360s dying within the sample group and 360s NOT dying within the sample group? Oh hells no.
The point is the hoary old "Well I know five friends with five dead 360s so all 360s are crap" argument is ridiculous. The only reason it is accepted is that it has been repeated so much that the innate idiocy of the comment is allowed, simply because it is familiar. I have taken the exact same thought process and applied it differently, with MORE supporting evidence, and it is taken poorly.
Anecdotal evidence sucks. Quit using it.
Why did your 360 die? Because you are unlucky!
Wow, you guys are right. Debate like this is easier.
This isn't D&D and we don't have to argue like it is. I understand that "one or two friends" isn't a valid sample size; I basically said that to reinforce my belief that you're being smug and insulting. Kudos for taking over that task for me with this post.
It really isn't an issue if you him being unlucky, so much as you being lucky. The reason for this is that it's pretty much an accepted thing within the gaming community that if you have a launch 360, it's going to break. Maybe not now, but it's going to eventually red-ring for the same reason that everyone else's. It really sucks when it happens to you. I had a pretty similar train of thought originally and assumed it was just bad luck for everyone else. Once you experience it, you realize that it's just the inevitable.
Also, I think I should mention that when I took my second 360 out of the box, it might have been vertical for ten seconds while I removed the plastic wrapping from it. Maybe that's why it didn't last for more than three seconds. :roll:
And my point is that the fact that it is generally accepted is because a vocal minority using less than sound logic have worked damn hard to make it that way. If you look at the realities of the situation you begin to see that it is far less dire than some try and make it out to be. Problem is, that is heavily discouraged as its "not generally accepted" by the understandably frustrated consumers who do lose a console.
The response to "That's nice you think its just luck, this is why I disagree and how I came to that conclusion" is "This isn't a debate, so I don't have to prove anything. But you're wrong."
Any attempt to EVER break the 360-Suckathon-Hype-Train-3000 by anyone who actually remembers much worse experiences with consoles is met with this kind of fuckwittery. The old RRoD thread was full of the same thing. The people who lost a console (which sucks, I understand) shouting much, much more loudly (and with less research//thought//whatever due to the RAGE) than the large amount of people who had no problem at all.
Those of us who say that we haven't had a problem, nor has anyone else who does what we did with our consoles are shouted at. Don't you think, MAYBE, that your frustration over you being unlucky could be clouding your judgment?
PS: I do understand that generally when you are angry you are far more passionate about a subject than when you aren't. I've never gotten into a shouting match over my working 360. I'd imagine its the same for the many others who have them. I probably couldn't' say that for another person and their nonworking one. I'm saying that before you debunk things out-of-hand, you should look at why you are doing it. Oh, and still enough with the anecdotal evidence, in general. It does still suck.
It's hard for those of us who have not experienced it. For one thing, the internet seems to exaggerate all problems. So, while I know half a dozen people with a 360, no one I know has had any problems. On the other hand, to use the above example, more than half the Macbooks I've purchases this year (through work) have failed. I've had to send them all back for simple and not-so-simple problems. My own has been back at least 6 times. I have literally lost count.
I think we all know the RROD is a very real problem but Microsoft has, in my opinion, made good. Much more so than I have seen from any other company in a similar situation. I don't know if I see it as a different standard or that they are fixing the problem, right? They extended everyone's warranty and re-tooled the hardware. Or am I wrong on that?
edit: I take that back - Apple made good in the same way with the eMac. They fucked up the logic board and would replace any machine (within range) that died due to their mistake. Then they fixed the design and continued to sell eMacs that worked.
See, this is a sensible post. Look out, man! THEY'RE GONNA RUN YOU DOWN!
EDIT: The basic supposition doesn't work by the way, because more than half of all 360s have not died. That's the kind of hyperbole I am talking about. The HIGHEST numbers I've seen are in the 30% range. Too high? You bet. More than half? Fuckwittery.
What world is that? I live in the world where GM is still making faulty replacement power steering for cars they recalled ten years ago. The world where dealers will tell you to expect the electrical system to need major repairs twice within the warranty period. The world where Desk Star hard drives disintegrate below their maximum speed. The world where normal wear and tear will void the warranty on most electronics. The world where bugs are features. The world where the implied warranty of merchantability is shorter than most checkout lines.
I don't live in your world.
Edit: I'm inclined to cut Microsoft a huge amount of slack. In my experience, Sony does everything they can to say warranties are void when their stuff breaks. Between the RROD and hinge cracks, Microsoft and Nintendo both have been falling over themselves to throw replacement systems at consumers. Microsoft extended the warranty far enough that the Xbox 360 2 or whatever will probably be out before they're done passing out replacements.
The fact is, sometimes gaming machines have problems.
When Microsoft had the RROD problem, they denied it for a few months. Then they came out, admitted it, and set aside a billion bucks to guarantee anyone another 3 year warranty for it. They also decided to upgrade the heatsinks in the things.
Anyone is free to decide to never buy an MS console ever again after this debacle, that's understandable, I suppose.
But at least they admitted it and went about fixing it. Back when Sony had the PS2 DRE problem, they sat and waited for a class action suit to be filed against them, and dragged it out for months, before finally losing and then being forced to handle DRE problems for the PS2.
Now, of course, I don't expect companies to always necessarily do what's "nicest" for the consumer up front, so I wasn't really surprised by what Sony did about the PS2 DREs..
..but I was surprised that MS actually admitted to 360 RRODs up front and proactively decided to do something to erect the situation. That almost seems abnormal, in a good way.
But for one to say that they'll never buy another console from Company X ever again because they had issues with their current system is an interesting sentiment..
Because, if you had bought other consoles from other companies at different times, you might have said the same thing about them. What if you had a broken PS2, and had to wait forever for the lawsuit to be filed and won and then get your PS2 fixed? Would you have decided that you'd never buy a Sony console ever again? Even though the PS3 is actually very reliable now?
Before that, the PS1 used to have heat and disc issues... the oXbox had Thompson drive issues.. the DS Lite had hingecrack issues.. the PSP had a dysfunctional Square button and flying UMDs..
What I find interesting is that someone may support a company now even if they had some kind of hardware issue in the past, simply because they didn't have to experience it then. But if they had, would they still support the company now by buying a modern console/handheld that is reliable?
I've been lucky, I guess, and treat my stuff well, so I've never had a console fail on me. Although my launch PS2 is lately forcing me to run it vertically for my CD based games. Other than that... nope, not a problem. I don't know if it's because most of my consoles have been bought midway through the generation after many issues had been resolved or what. or maybe I'm just lucky, or maybe I just wait and find out about issues before buying into new systems. I mean, heck, I'd probably have a 360 by now if I hadn't heard about the RROD mess. Meh well.
Steam ID: slashx000______Twitter: @bill_at_zeboyd______ Facebook: Zeboyd Games
Eating millions of dollars in cost freely to make up for it isn't exactly a shitty business practice. Like, at all.
Well, no, but designing a high-end consumer electronic device with unacceptably low factors of safety, skimping and fudging the QA phase, and hastily rushing the product out there to beat a competitor might be...
but like I said. Sometimes shit breaks. At least they did confront the issue and extend the warranty for 3 years without having to be sued first.
Steam ID: slashx000______Twitter: @bill_at_zeboyd______ Facebook: Zeboyd Games
No disagreement there. But after having my PS1 die after living half its very short life upside down and not getting anything at all puts the current actions in a bit more charitable a light.
I ask because i really want a 360, but all this issues have me scared shitless, since no console has ever died on me.
Too soon to tell, basically. On a technical level, they have rectified all obvious causes of the RROD with the new model, but in no way does that prevent the same or even new problems from surfacing.
If you want it, though, get it. As long as you use common sense and don't fuck around, you should be covered against all but the greatest of flukes. Just get the best warrenty/replacement plan you can just in case.
1.) It's random. Speculation suggests it is a long process of heating and cooling done over a long period of time.
2.) Microsoft's replacement plan is as good as you are going to get. Most places have been told to stop replacing units outside of the normal 30/90 day guarantee.
All things considered, this replacement plan is a lot better than what you had to put up with during the PS2 fiasco.
Sony's actions concerning locking down the PSP firmware and general douchebaggery over the last several years makes me avoid their products with a vengeance just because I don't want to deal with any weird issues.
I have breaking news.
Some people have broken their Wii controllers because of faulty straps.
Someone even broke their TV.
I also hear there maybe some vulnerabilities in Microsoft's OS's.
You weren't debating though, so...
My exact point. I replaced my PS1 twice in three failures - Sony covered the first, but not the others. My PS2 died twice, and both times Sony had me ship it to them and then refuse to fix it because, once, the power cord that came with it wasn't an authorized power cord, and the second time because there was a small scratch on the top suggesting "gross misuse."
My 360's only failure thus was entirely my fault, and was specifically not covered by the warranty, and Microsoft replaced it without argument. They gave me a Halo 3 edition, but I'm not really that bothered.
That said, hopefully this has taught them a lesson for the next console generation, as it apparently has. I'm willing to be a lot more forgiving because they've admitted fairly readily that there are problems, and they're working to fix it. I don't think they want to go through all this again the next time around.
That's kinda the stand I take on it. I still have my original PSX, but if I want to play anything with lengthy FMVs on it I have to stand the console vertically. I couldn't play FFIX until I figured that out.
Same thing with the PS2. I scoff at their pride with the 100 million shipped numbers. I know at least a dozen people who are on their third of fourth PS2 due to the same problem that was never acknowledged.
Now, was this an ideal situation? Fuck no. I need to play KUF:COD. But they handled me well. I don't feel like I've been gypped or swindled. I would have rathered my 360 not break, but shit happens. And they were at least kind enough to treat me like a valued customer.
Anyway one thing about this interview made me sad. I was hoping I'd get a falcon back with HDMI but I guess that's not very likely. Anyone here have any experience with sending back a pre-falcon 360 and getting a falcon back?
Running it vertically also blocks one of the intake vents, while the HDD blocks most of the other. Its only logical to run it horizontally.
I don't think its perceived any worse than it really is. 30% failure is a big margin of failure, and its reflected pretty well.
NintendoID: Nailbunny 3DS: 3909-8796-4685
My decision on the console wasn't to never buy another Microsoft product again, but never to buy another game console period. I'll probably change my mind when the next generation of systems comes out, but for now I'm more than content to switch towards PC gaming. In the mean time, the raw customization of everything, particularly communication integration, make the PC my preferred choice [yes, I know I'm backwards from 95% of the gaming community in my switch].
In summation: Microsoft did a good job. The fact that it's considered exceptional is a sad reflection on the electronics industry. The fiasco has kind of pushed me away from console gaming. Personal choices, blah blah
Who/what are you trolling? Please elaborate.
If it's me, then congrats on being a cool and respectable person. Fortunately, this forum wasn't created for everyone with like-minded opinions to circle jerk together and piss all over everyone who disagreed with them.
If it's Microsoft, the fact that they're repairing some of the broken consoles [not including the DRE units that I've been hearing about lately] for free is a step in the right direction. There's no sense in criticizing them over something that's mostly over with, regardless of what an unpleasant experience it has been. They already have my dollars. They'll continue to get more of them from Rockband DLC, as well as the occasional Live Arcade title.
Either way, forgive me for metamodding.
luck of the draw unfortunately.
Hell, I got the 360 holiday bundle with Forza 2 and M:UA. I got one with no HDMI, while a friend of mine ordered the same bundle and got one with HDMI......lucky bastard. At least mine will RRoD in a year, and I'll probably end up with HDMI then.
I'll stand up as the "my launch 360 is working fine" guy... no problems whatsoever. Well, aside from the Live bullshit. ;-)
https://steamcommunity.com/profiles/76561197970666737/
Fuck no it doesn't.
But things could be a fuck of a lot worse about how the company is handling it.
The whole situation blows, but there it is. At least they confronted the issue and did something about it.
When something shitty happens, it doesn't make it "right" that the company admits the problem, sets aside money to correct it, and extend a warranty by 3 years. But it sure as hell takes away some of the impact.
Steam ID: slashx000______Twitter: @bill_at_zeboyd______ Facebook: Zeboyd Games
Yeah. Because Sony didn't do the same thing with the PS2. My PS2 that broke 3 days after I got it back from them, and started giving me DRE's again? That was just fucking voodoo.
Also, "M$" was a funny thing to type 10 years ago. Now it makes you look like a cock. ;-)
https://steamcommunity.com/profiles/76561197970666737/
Uh, everyone company does stupid, arrogant shit at some point or another.
At least Microsoft acknowledged the problem, extended the warranty, and set out to fix it for its consumers, instead of forcing its consumers to be shit out of luck, wait for someone to sue the company in a class action, have the company drag the suit out for months/years, finally have the class win the suit, then force the company to fix the problems thereafter, and then fix the console only if it met certain requirements.
Yeah, it's real "errogant" of Microsoft to admit its mistake and correct the problem. Sucks when companies do that, they're such bastards. I'd much rather be stuck with a broken console and hope that someone wins a class action law suit in a year or two so that I can rebuy my system in the meantime, then hope that the company will replace my broken one after the suit is finally over, that is, if I still cared so much, since I was already forced to buy a whole new console in the first place, thus making moot the point of having it 'fixed' anyway, and forcing me to cough up the money for a new system.
Steam ID: slashx000______Twitter: @bill_at_zeboyd______ Facebook: Zeboyd Games