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PS3 + 1080i TV, is the problem fixed.

FireflashFireflash Montreal, QCRegistered User regular
edited January 2008 in Games and Technology
Hey guys, just a quick question here since I failed at finding the latest info about this issue.

I know the PS3 had an issue with 1080i HDTVs that caused games to go down to 480p instead of up to 1080i since 720p wasn't available. I just want to know if this problem has been fixed, to know if I'd be able to run ps3 games in HD on my old 1080i CRT. Thanks!

PSN: PatParadize
Battle.net: Fireflash#1425
Steam Friend code: 45386507
Fireflash on

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  • Options
    CZroeCZroe Registered User regular
    edited January 2008
    Fireflash wrote: »
    Hey guys, just a quick question here since I failed at finding the latest info about this issue.

    I know the PS3 had an issue with 1080i HDTVs that caused games to go down to 480p instead of up to 1080i since 720p wasn't available. I just want to know if this problem has been fixed, to know if I'd be able to run ps3 games in HD on my old 1080i CRT. Thanks!

    Not accepting all standard HD signals is a problem with your TV. Just because external HDTV tuners could scale to either 1080i or 720p, the only "standard" HD resolutions, HDTV monitors could get away with only supporting one or the other. It's your TV's fault if it doesn't support any of the PS3's HD resolutions and it has to default to 480i or 480p. Ignorant people blame the PS3 just because the XBOX includes a scaler. That's a BONUS and an advantage for the XBOX, but it does not conversely imply that there is some kind of "problem" with the PS3 that requires "fixing."

    If they ever add a scaler, it'll be hardware in new models. There's no way they can go back and add a software scaler for the existing games on the existing hardware.

    CZroe on
  • Options
    tachyontachyon Registered User regular
    edited January 2008
    CZroe wrote: »
    Fireflash wrote: »
    Hey guys, just a quick question here since I failed at finding the latest info about this issue.

    I know the PS3 had an issue with 1080i HDTVs that caused games to go down to 480p instead of up to 1080i since 720p wasn't available. I just want to know if this problem has been fixed, to know if I'd be able to run ps3 games in HD on my old 1080i CRT. Thanks!

    Not accepting all standard HD signals is a problem with your TV. Just because external HDTV tuners could scale to either 1080i or 620p, the only "standard" HD resolutions, HDTV monitors could get away with only supporting one or the other. It's your TV's fault if it doesn't support any of the PS3's HD resolutions and it has to default to 480i or 480p. Ignorant people blame the PS3 just because the XBOX includes a scaler. That's a BONUS and an advantage for the XBOX, but it does not conversely imply that there is some kind of "problem" with the PS3 that requires "fixing."

    If they ever add a scaler, it'll be hardware in new models. There's no way they can go back and add a software scaler for the existing games on the existing hardware.

    Um...

    The problem:

    http://www.engadgethd.com/2006/11/16/ps3-doesnt-do-1080i/

    The "fix":

    http://www.joystiq.com/2006/12/06/ps3-firmware-1-30-fixes-1080i-problem/

    tachyon on
  • Options
    FireflashFireflash Montreal, QCRegistered User regular
    edited January 2008
    tachyon wrote: »
    CZroe wrote: »
    Fireflash wrote: »
    Hey guys, just a quick question here since I failed at finding the latest info about this issue.

    I know the PS3 had an issue with 1080i HDTVs that caused games to go down to 480p instead of up to 1080i since 720p wasn't available. I just want to know if this problem has been fixed, to know if I'd be able to run ps3 games in HD on my old 1080i CRT. Thanks!

    Not accepting all standard HD signals is a problem with your TV. Just because external HDTV tuners could scale to either 1080i or 620p, the only "standard" HD resolutions, HDTV monitors could get away with only supporting one or the other. It's your TV's fault if it doesn't support any of the PS3's HD resolutions and it has to default to 480i or 480p. Ignorant people blame the PS3 just because the XBOX includes a scaler. That's a BONUS and an advantage for the XBOX, but it does not conversely imply that there is some kind of "problem" with the PS3 that requires "fixing."

    If they ever add a scaler, it'll be hardware in new models. There's no way they can go back and add a software scaler for the existing games on the existing hardware.

    Um...

    The problem:

    http://www.engadgethd.com/2006/11/16/ps3-doesnt-do-1080i/

    The "fix":

    http://www.joystiq.com/2006/12/06/ps3-firmware-1-30-fixes-1080i-problem/

    Yeah that's the links I found, but they're pretty old so I was wondering if there was an update on this.

    And CZroe.. Wow, it's just a question no need to go all "sony defense force" on me. I asked this because a friend has bought a PS3 recently (doesn't have any HD cable yet so we can't check it out right now) and I would sell him my old HD CRT for cheap. I needed to know before I go and sell a useless tv to my friend.

    Fireflash on
    PSN: PatParadize
    Battle.net: Fireflash#1425
    Steam Friend code: 45386507
  • Options
    tachyontachyon Registered User regular
    edited January 2008
    Fireflash wrote: »
    tachyon wrote: »
    CZroe wrote: »
    Fireflash wrote: »
    Hey guys, just a quick question here since I failed at finding the latest info about this issue.

    I know the PS3 had an issue with 1080i HDTVs that caused games to go down to 480p instead of up to 1080i since 720p wasn't available. I just want to know if this problem has been fixed, to know if I'd be able to run ps3 games in HD on my old 1080i CRT. Thanks!

    Not accepting all standard HD signals is a problem with your TV. Just because external HDTV tuners could scale to either 1080i or 620p, the only "standard" HD resolutions, HDTV monitors could get away with only supporting one or the other. It's your TV's fault if it doesn't support any of the PS3's HD resolutions and it has to default to 480i or 480p. Ignorant people blame the PS3 just because the XBOX includes a scaler. That's a BONUS and an advantage for the XBOX, but it does not conversely imply that there is some kind of "problem" with the PS3 that requires "fixing."

    If they ever add a scaler, it'll be hardware in new models. There's no way they can go back and add a software scaler for the existing games on the existing hardware.



    Um...

    The problem:

    http://www.engadgethd.com/2006/11/16/ps3-doesnt-do-1080i/

    The "fix":

    http://www.joystiq.com/2006/12/06/ps3-firmware-1-30-fixes-1080i-problem/

    Yeah that's the links I found, but they're pretty old so I was wondering if there was an update on this.

    And CZroe.. Wow, it's just a question no need to go all "sony defense force" on me. I asked this because a friend has bought a PS3 recently (doesn't have any HD cable yet so we can't check it out right now) and I would sell him my old HD CRT for cheap. I needed to know before I go and sell a useless tv to my friend.

    Looking through the update history, it seems this is the fix (firmware 1.3) They have since made changes to resolution settings with blu-ray stuff.

    tachyon on
  • Options
    antifoodantifood Registered User regular
    edited January 2008
    All the new games seem to be supporting 1080i. Some of the older titles still only run at 480p.

    antifood on
  • Options
    FireflashFireflash Montreal, QCRegistered User regular
    edited January 2008
    Eh, I guess we'll just try to borrow an HDMI cable from someone and see if it works.
    Antifood: Hmm interesing! We'll see how things go with the games he currently has.

    Fireflash on
    PSN: PatParadize
    Battle.net: Fireflash#1425
    Steam Friend code: 45386507
  • Options
    CZroeCZroe Registered User regular
    edited January 2008
    tachyon wrote: »
    CZroe wrote: »
    Fireflash wrote: »
    Hey guys, just a quick question here since I failed at finding the latest info about this issue.

    I know the PS3 had an issue with 1080i HDTVs that caused games to go down to 480p instead of up to 1080i since 720p wasn't available. I just want to know if this problem has been fixed, to know if I'd be able to run ps3 games in HD on my old 1080i CRT. Thanks!

    Not accepting all standard HD signals is a problem with your TV. Just because external HDTV tuners could scale to either 1080i or 620p, the only "standard" HD resolutions, HDTV monitors could get away with only supporting one or the other. It's your TV's fault if it doesn't support any of the PS3's HD resolutions and it has to default to 480i or 480p. Ignorant people blame the PS3 just because the XBOX includes a scaler. That's a BONUS and an advantage for the XBOX, but it does not conversely imply that there is some kind of "problem" with the PS3 that requires "fixing."

    If they ever add a scaler, it'll be hardware in new models. There's no way they can go back and add a software scaler for the existing games on the existing hardware.

    Um...

    The problem:

    http://www.engadgethd.com/2006/11/16/ps3-doesnt-do-1080i/

    The "fix":

    http://www.joystiq.com/2006/12/06/ps3-firmware-1-30-fixes-1080i-problem/

    No, no NO. That's just the ignorance I was correcting. There is no "fix" because there is no "problem." Those articles made HUGE assumptions due to their experience with the XBOX 360 and that is exactly what I was correcting. You can't use the material I was correcting to "correct" me. Resistance: Fall of Man simply doesn't support 1080i as they say (check Wikipedia), and no native 720p game will be scaled to 1080i or 1080p unless the game engine itself has enough resources left over to do it in software (in which case, the game itself will "support" that resolution). Call of Duty 4 is internally rendered at 600p and upscaled to the game engine's supported resolutions, and there is nothing the console can do to create "new" supported resolutions without a hardware scaler.

    Sony later added software down-scaling for Blu-Ray to output 720p from a 1080p sourced BD video. They can't do the same for games because the games expect a certain amount of resources to be available. Therefore, they can never be allocated to an "after the fact" software scaler.

    Your HDTV is supposed to have an internal scaler. If it doesn't, then it is not an HDTV... It is an HDTV monitor. You will need an A/V receiver to make up for its deficiencies. To be an HDTV, it must not only have an HDTV tuner, but it must also support HDTV broadcasts in either resolution. This necessitates a scaler for any set with a native resolution.
    Fireflash wrote: »
    tachyon wrote: »

    Yeah that's the links I found, but they're pretty old so I was wondering if there was an update on this.
    They were wrong. Dead wrong. I just gave you all the "update" you need. Let's stop the spread of misinformation.
    Fireflash wrote: »
    And CZroe.. Wow, it's just a question no need to go all "sony defense force" on me. I asked this because a friend has bought a PS3 recently (doesn't have any HD cable yet so we can't check it out right now) and I would sell him my old HD CRT for cheap. I needed to know before I go and sell a useless tv to my friend.

    Sony defense force? I am a Nintendo fanboy through-and-through and I never even owned a Playstation or Playstation 2. The CRT TV you have is probably just like the $1,200 Samsung and $2,400 Sony XBR 30 inch-ers I've had in the past and both were native 1080i. The difference? Though both were HDTV monitors with no HDTV tuner, the Sony XBR910 had an internal scaler that would pass 480i/p and 1080i while scaling 720p. Nifty. It's not the PS3's job to do this.

    My twin brother has an identical 30" Sammy at work with an XBOX 360 connected. When a coworker brought his PS3 in and most content was forced to 480p, they insulted the TV as they should for it's defeciencies while recognizing that the XBOX 360 deserved props because it made up for it. He works for a high-def content provider, so that means something.

    Anyway, it's most certainly not "useless" thanks to the PS3's ability to scale video and at least play 1080i games in HD while allowing others in 480p. If he absolutely must have HD in 720p games, suggest an A/V surround-sound receiver with scaling.

    FWIW, most standard-def projectors accept HD resolutions and down-scale while calling themselves "High-Def" or "High-Def compatible." Sure, it'll support your 720p PS3 games, but it won't look any better than the 480p you can already get. So, as you can see, even the presence of a scaler doesn't guarantee HD at the resolution you want... it just guarantees that it can accept the signal. Can you see why it's so important to know this stuff if you care about this aspect of the PS3's HD support?

    CZroe on
  • Options
    EchoEcho ski-bap ba-dapModerator mod
    edited January 2008
    So someone actually reported CZRoe's first post as flamebait. What the fuck was that person thinking?

    Echo on
  • Options
    EchoEcho ski-bap ba-dapModerator mod
    edited January 2008
    Nor is he going "sony defense force" by explaining how the PS3 fails at HDMI. Gah, you people.

    I'll be in the bathtub popping headache pills. Thanks a lot.

    Echo on
  • Options
    xWonderboyxxWonderboyx Registered User regular
    edited January 2008
    Hooray for Echo! And CZroe! And... ME!

    xWonderboyx on
    shark2.jpg
    XBL - Follow Freeman
  • Options
    FireflashFireflash Montreal, QCRegistered User regular
    edited January 2008
    CZroe wrote: »
    tachyon wrote: »
    CZroe wrote: »
    Fireflash wrote: »
    Hey guys, just a quick question here since I failed at finding the latest info about this issue.

    I know the PS3 had an issue with 1080i HDTVs that caused games to go down to 480p instead of up to 1080i since 720p wasn't available. I just want to know if this problem has been fixed, to know if I'd be able to run ps3 games in HD on my old 1080i CRT. Thanks!

    Not accepting all standard HD signals is a problem with your TV. Just because external HDTV tuners could scale to either 1080i or 620p, the only "standard" HD resolutions, HDTV monitors could get away with only supporting one or the other. It's your TV's fault if it doesn't support any of the PS3's HD resolutions and it has to default to 480i or 480p. Ignorant people blame the PS3 just because the XBOX includes a scaler. That's a BONUS and an advantage for the XBOX, but it does not conversely imply that there is some kind of "problem" with the PS3 that requires "fixing."

    If they ever add a scaler, it'll be hardware in new models. There's no way they can go back and add a software scaler for the existing games on the existing hardware.

    Um...

    The problem:

    http://www.engadgethd.com/2006/11/16/ps3-doesnt-do-1080i/

    The "fix":

    http://www.joystiq.com/2006/12/06/ps3-firmware-1-30-fixes-1080i-problem/

    No, no NO. That's just the ignorance I was correcting. There is no "fix" because there is no "problem." Those articles made HUGE assumptions due to their experience with the XBOX 360 and that is exactly what I was correcting. You can't use the material I was correcting to "correct" me. Resistance: Fall of Man simply doesn't support 1080i as they say (check Wikipedia), and no native 720p game will be scaled to 1080i or 1080p unless the game engine itself has enough resources left over to do it in software (in which case, the game itself will "support" that resolution). Call of Duty 4 is internally rendered at 600p and upscaled to the game engine's supported resolutions, and there is nothing the console can do to create "new" supported resolutions without a hardware scaler.

    Sony later added software down-scaling for Blu-Ray to output 720p from a 1080p sourced BD video. They can't do the same for games because the games expect a certain amount of resources to be available. Therefore, they can never be allocated to an "after the fact" software scaler.

    Your HDTV is supposed to have an internal scaler. If it doesn't, then it is not an HDTV... It is an HDTV monitor. You will need an A/V receiver to make up for its deficiencies. To be an HDTV, it must not only have an HDTV tuner, but it must also support HDTV broadcasts in either resolution. This necessitates a scaler for any set with a native resolution.
    Fireflash wrote: »
    tachyon wrote: »

    Yeah that's the links I found, but they're pretty old so I was wondering if there was an update on this.
    They were wrong. Dead wrong. I just gave you all the "update" you need. Let's stop the spread of misinformation.
    Fireflash wrote: »
    And CZroe.. Wow, it's just a question no need to go all "sony defense force" on me. I asked this because a friend has bought a PS3 recently (doesn't have any HD cable yet so we can't check it out right now) and I would sell him my old HD CRT for cheap. I needed to know before I go and sell a useless tv to my friend.

    Sony defense force? I am a Nintendo fanboy through-and-through and I never even owned a Playstation or Playstation 2. The CRT TV you have is probably just like the $1,200 Samsung and $2,400 Sony XBR 30 inch-ers I've had in the past and both were native 1080i. The difference? Though both were HDTV monitors with no HDTV tuner, the Sony XBR910 had an internal scaler that would pass 480i/p and 1080i while scaling 720p. Nifty. It's not the PS3's job to do this.

    My twin brother has an identical 30" Sammy at work with an XBOX 360 connected. When a coworker brought his PS3 in and most content was forced to 480p, they insulted the TV as they should for it's defeciencies while recognizing that the XBOX 360 deserved props because it made up for it. He works for a high-def content provider, so that means something.

    Anyway, it's most certainly not "useless" thanks to the PS3's ability to scale video and at least play 1080i games in HD while allowing others in 480p. If he absolutely must have HD in 720p games, suggest an A/V surround-sound receiver with scaling.

    FWIW, most standard-def projectors accept HD resolutions and down-scale while calling themselves "High-Def" or "High-Def compatible." Sure, it'll support your 720p PS3 games, but it won't look any better than the 480p you can already get. So, as you can see, even the presence of a scaler doesn't guarantee HD at the resolution you want... it just guarantees that it can accept the signal. Can you see why it's so important to know this stuff if you care about this aspect of the PS3's HD support?

    Alright, sorry for misinterpreting your words. But still, even though you claim it's the TV's fault, and you seem to be technically right, this is what I'm seeing:

    On one hand I've got Microsoft who acknowledged the fact that some people (certainly I'm far from being the only person who owns a 1080i CRT. In fact we have a bunch of them here at work) have 1080i TVs and made sure games would run in HD on them, on the other hand I've got Sony who doesn't care about 1080i TVs. I don't see why it would be considered a "bonus" for a machine to support my TV's resolution. Microsoft catered to my needs, Sony told me to fuck off.

    Fireflash on
    PSN: PatParadize
    Battle.net: Fireflash#1425
    Steam Friend code: 45386507
  • Options
    Katchem_ashKatchem_ash __BANNED USERS regular
    edited January 2008
    Fireflash wrote: »
    Alright, sorry for misinterpreting your words. But still, even though you claim it's the TV's fault, and you seem to be technically right, this is what I'm seeing:

    On one hand I've got Microsoft who acknowledged the fact that some people (certainly I'm far from being the only person who owns a 1080i CRT. In fact we have a bunch of them here at work) have 1080i TVs and made sure games would run in HD on them, on the other hand I've got Sony who doesn't care about 1080i TVs. I don't see why it would be considered a "bonus" for a machine to support my TV's resolution. Microsoft catered to my needs, Sony told me to fuck off.


    No what I'm seeing is your going "lolo sony" while trying to make something happen which the PS3 isn't going to do.

    Its been reported agian and agian there is no upscaler. While the 360 does this, the PS3 doesn't. Its not telling your to fuck off, its telling you it just doesn't care. It won't do it for you.

    And I liked the line how MS is meeting your "needs". They why did your friend by the PS3 if he knew there was his problem or why are you giving him a TV which will cause this problem?

    Katchem_ash on
  • Options
    FireflashFireflash Montreal, QCRegistered User regular
    edited January 2008
    K_A I'm not going "lolol Sony". Even if it's my TV's fault, one console lets me run all my games in HD, the other does not. That's all I'm saying. I'm not debating any other aspects of either console.

    Since you don't seem to be able to understand such a simple thing, I'll explain again, in even more details:

    - Fireflash (that's me BTW) plays 360 games in HD on his 1080i CRT.
    - Fireflash buys a new, bigger 1080p TV. Old 1080i TV now collects dust.
    - Friend of Fireflash buys a PS3. Friend of Fireflash doesn't have an HDTV, remembers that Fireflash has an old, unused one.
    -Friend asks: Hey Fireflash, yknow that old HDTV you have, maybe you could sell it to me for cheap, I need some HD for my brand new PS3
    -Fireflash says: Oh friend, you just bought a PS3! That's cool! I have no issue selling you my old TV for cheap but I'm not sure PS3 games will run in HD on it, I will make poast on internet and try to find out!

    And this is where we are now.

    Fireflash on
    PSN: PatParadize
    Battle.net: Fireflash#1425
    Steam Friend code: 45386507
  • Options
    nopoastingnopoasting __BANNED USERS regular
    edited January 2008
    jesus christ you people are dicks

    nopoasting on
  • Options
    WickerBasketWickerBasket Registered User regular
    edited January 2008
    Fireflash wrote: »
    K_A I'm not going "lolol Sony". Even if it's my TV's fault, one console lets me run all my games in HD, the other does not. That's all I'm saying. I'm not debating any other aspects of either console.
    I think it's Sony's fault for the way they've marketed it as an HD games console/blu ray player. If your going to tout HD as a selling feature then the customer's are going to expect that it'll support all HDTV resolutions.

    I'd say it's a problem that the PS3 has as it doesn't have an upscaler but as it affects so few people I doubt Sony give a shit.

    Edit: Also, as of right now the problem is not fixed nor do I think it ever will be as it's a hardware based problem that few care about.

    WickerBasket on
    "please get on point coward baby magets."

    PSN = Wicker86 ________ Gamertag = Wicker86
  • Options
    LewiePLewieP Registered User regular
    edited January 2008
    Just to clarify, this isn't an issue that is relevant to modern HDTVs right? It's just for older models, most likely made before the PS3 came out?

    LewieP on
  • Options
    CaligoCaligo Registered User regular
    edited January 2008
    I see a bit differently. Although I am not a tech snob like some people in this thread, I don't really care about whether it's the TV's job or the console's job, or the friggin' power cable's job. What I care about is the spec sheet that says using an Xbox can do something, but a PS3 cannot.

    As soon as the xbox includes a hardware scaler, if the PS3 doesn't, at that moment, it is no longer the TV's "job" to do anything.

    Caligo on
  • Options
    FireflashFireflash Montreal, QCRegistered User regular
    edited January 2008
    LewieP wrote: »
    Just to clarify, this isn't an issue that is relevant to modern HDTVs right? It's just for older models, most likely made before the PS3 came out?

    Yeah, it's just for old CRT TV's that only have 1080i as a possible HD resolution.

    Fireflash on
    PSN: PatParadize
    Battle.net: Fireflash#1425
    Steam Friend code: 45386507
  • Options
    WickerBasketWickerBasket Registered User regular
    edited January 2008
    LewieP wrote: »
    Just to clarify, this isn't an issue that is relevant to modern HDTVs right? It's just for older models, most likely made before the PS3 came out?
    Yeah, it's really not an issue unless your HDTV has cave drawings on the side of it.

    Edit: Beat'd. YOU SHALL RUE THE DAY!

    WickerBasket on
    "please get on point coward baby magets."

    PSN = Wicker86 ________ Gamertag = Wicker86
  • Options
    DaedalusDaedalus Registered User regular
    edited January 2008
    Oh, and just a heads-up, CRT sets that nominally support 720p will pretty much always just downscale the 720p picture to 540p and then display it as 1080i.

    Daedalus on
  • Options
    CZroeCZroe Registered User regular
    edited January 2008
    Fireflash wrote: »
    Alright, sorry for misinterpreting your words. But still, even though you claim it's the TV's fault, and you seem to be technically right, this is what I'm seeing:

    On one hand I've got Microsoft who acknowledged the fact that some people (certainly I'm far from being the only person who owns a 1080i CRT. In fact we have a bunch of them here at work) have 1080i TVs and made sure games would run in HD on them, on the other hand I've got Sony who doesn't care about 1080i TVs. I don't see why it would be considered a "bonus" for a machine to support my TV's resolution. Microsoft catered to my needs, Sony told me to fuck off.

    Which is a huge advantage for the XBOX 360, as stated, but it is a response to a chicken & egg scenario that was going to resolve itself when the FCC mandates DTV tuners anyway. Even if that were not the case, if all devices keep making up for television set deficiencies, then sets will never improve. That said, I fully expect an "Elite" PS3 to add in reverse compatibility and a hardware scaler (or software if yeilds improve and they can repurpose that extra "Cell") along with a larger HDD.
    Fireflash wrote: »
    K_A I'm not going "lolol Sony". Even if it's my TV's fault, one console lets me run all my games in HD, the other does not. That's all I'm saying. I'm not debating any other aspects of either console.

    Since you don't seem to be able to understand such a simple thing, I'll explain again, in even more details:

    - Fireflash (that's me BTW) plays 360 games in HD on his 1080i CRT.
    - Fireflash buys a new, bigger 1080p TV. Old 1080i TV now collects dust.
    - Friend of Fireflash buys a PS3. Friend of Fireflash doesn't have an HDTV, remembers that Fireflash has an old, unused one.
    -Friend asks: Hey Fireflash, yknow that old HDTV you have, maybe you could sell it to me for cheap, I need some HD for my brand new PS3
    -Fireflash says: Oh friend, you just bought a PS3! That's cool! I have no issue selling you my old TV for cheap but I'm not sure PS3 games will run in HD on it, I will make poast on internet and try to find out!

    And this is where we are now.

    Well, unfortunately, it's mostly the same story. As indicated, most newer games support 1080i, so the situation is improving, and the answer for existing 720p games is to get an upscaling AV receiver. He may be willing to just play what he can play in HD and get another solution in the future when costs come down (though the demand will lower due to more modern sets).
    Fireflash wrote: »
    K_A I'm not going "lolol Sony". Even if it's my TV's fault, one console lets me run all my games in HD, the other does not. That's all I'm saying. I'm not debating any other aspects of either console.
    I think it's Sony's fault for the way they've marketed it as an HD games console/blu ray player. If you're going to tout HD as a selling feature then the customer's are going to expect that it'll support all HDTV resolutions.

    I'd say it's a problem that the PS3 has as it doesn't have an upscaler but as it affects so few people I doubt Sony give a shit.

    Edit: Also, as of right now the problem is not fixed nor do I think it ever will be as it's a hardware based problem that few care about.

    It does support all HD resolutions and that is precisely the problem. I didn't see anyone complaining when their 720p original XBOX games didn't work on their 1080i CRT. The only reason I paid $2,400 for the XBR was because it was the only one that didn't force 480p to widescreen causing most Gamecube games to have a skewed aspect. I did my research and had to pay for what I wanted. At launch, the PS3 costs more and generates a higher loss, so I don't blame them for not spending the money on something just because Microsoft did. If the customer cares for the feature, they should have done their research when buying their TV. The only reason we expect it from a console is because Microsoft spoiled us, which is a boon for Microsoft. Good for them.
    LewieP wrote: »
    Just to clarify, this isn't an issue that is relevant to modern HDTVs right? It's just for older models, most likely made before the PS3 came out?

    Every now and then, I see a cheapo one on woot.com or something that only supports it's native resolution.
    Caligo wrote: »
    I see a bit differently. Although I am not a tech snob like some people in this thread, I don't really care about whether it's the TV's job or the console's job, or the friggin' power cable's job. What I care about is the spec sheet that says using an Xbox can do something, but a PS3 cannot.

    As soon as the xbox includes a hardware scaler, if the PS3 doesn't, at that moment, it is no longer the TV's "job" to do anything.

    Yes it is, because multiple scalers are detrimental and televisions still require them. If the TV needs it, it's the TV's job.

    Scalers add latency. Double-scaling adds double the latency. Latency harms gameplay.

    There is already a need for them in televisions regardless of whether the owner has a console or not, so that is where it belongs. Your console outputs a signal and it should not care what type of display you have (LCD, CRT, LCOS, DLP, plasma, OLED, SED, FUTURE UNKNOWN VARIETY, etc), the scaling capabilities, or the limitations of it (native resolution, analog with no native, analog with scaler-determined native, etc).
    Daedalus wrote: »
    Oh, and just a heads-up, CRT sets that nominally support 720p will pretty much always just downscale the 720p picture to 540p and then display it as 1080i.

    This is true. That's what a scaler does: Adapts all supported signals to the native resolution.

    CZroe on
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    LewiePLewieP Registered User regular
    edited January 2008
    Thank, once again, for your intelligent and in depth analysis.

    LewieP on
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    FireflashFireflash Montreal, QCRegistered User regular
    edited January 2008
    I'll assume there's a small possibilty my TV has the proper hardware to upscale the ps3 games that do not support 1080i and try to test it out myself. Pretty sure I can find a HDMI cable somewhere, or my friend will just have to buy one for cheap right away. I'll test out the games he currently has (Motorsport, UT3 and Marvel: Ultimate Alliance) and borrow a game from work that doesn't have 1080i support. (I guess Resistance would be a good test subject).

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    DaedalusDaedalus Registered User regular
    edited January 2008
    CZroe wrote: »
    Daedalus wrote: »
    Oh, and just a heads-up, CRT sets that nominally support 720p will pretty much always just downscale the 720p picture to 540p and then display it as 1080i.

    This is true. That's what a scaler does: Adapts all supported signals to the native resolution.

    Well, yes, but a high-quality scaler (the one built into the 360's GPU, for instance, or one of those standalone boxes that people at AVSforum masturbate over) will take a 720p frame and expand it into 1080 lines instead of shrinking it down.

    The built-in scaler in a TV is usually crap.

    Now, I personally feel the typical CRT HDTV's ability to natively display 480p and 1080i both, without scaling either, makes up for it, but that obviously doesn't apply if your system doesn't support 1080i.

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    Battman23Battman23 Registered User regular
    edited January 2008
    Wow, I didn't know that the PS3 doesn't support 1080i in all games. Before a couple months ago big box stores still offered 1080i HDTV's and I'm guess about 75% of HDTV sets in people's homes are 1080i because this is the standard resolution for most, if not all, HDTV broadcasts.

    I was going to get a PS3 sometime in the coming months as a Blu-Ray player and for the games. Guess I'll have to check my TV compatibility now. I know it has HDMI 1.2 and a decent scaler, but I'll still have to check.

    PS - Anyone know the Blu-Ray situation on the scaling.

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    CZroeCZroe Registered User regular
    edited January 2008
    LewieP wrote: »
    Thank, once again, for your intelligent and in depth analysis.

    I gave you one sentence! ;) Anyway, it's a safe bet that nearly any set with an HDTV tuner scales to comply with the broadcast standard.

    It's obviously possible for them get get lazy in some of the cheaper set by just integrating a scaling tuner and not have scaling inputs, it just doesn't make sense to not support it and gimp their features while paying to include a part that can do it.
    Daedalus wrote: »
    CZroe wrote: »
    Daedalus wrote: »
    Oh, and just a heads-up, CRT sets that nominally support 720p will pretty much always just downscale the 720p picture to 540p and then display it as 1080i.

    This is true. That's what a scaler does: Adapts all supported signals to the native resolution.

    Well, yes, but a high-quality scaler (the one built into the 360's GPU, for instance, or one of those standalone boxes that people at AVSforum masturbate over) will take a 720p frame and expand it into 1080 lines instead of shrinking it down.

    The built-in scaler in a TV is usually crap.

    Now, I personally feel the typical CRT HDTV's ability to natively display 480p and 1080i both, without scaling either, makes up for it, but that obviously doesn't apply if your system doesn't support 1080i.

    There are CRT TVs with high-quality image-processing scalers too... the WEGA XBR series for example. Despite significant overscan, the SFP tube from the XBR910, 960, and a non-XBR "XS" series, have 60% more lines of detail than the Taiwanese tube in the XBR970. If it's not even showing the full 1080i image (I can't see some menu options in BD movies!), it can only use it's internal scaler to take advantage of that extra tube resolution.

    The improved engine is included in my XBR LCD. The image enhancements they provide further add to the signals latency, which is why they have "game mode" to bypass much of the added latency. My SNES games in "game mode" looked like crap compared to what they looked like with the image processor doing it's thing, but at least it solved there problem where I was playing like a total n00b at my favorite classice by running off of cliffs.

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    CZroeCZroe Registered User regular
    edited January 2008
    Battman23 wrote: »
    Wow, I didn't know that the PS3 doesn't support 1080i in all games. Before a couple months ago big box stores still offered 1080i HDTV's and I'm guess about 75% of HDTV sets in people's homes are 1080i because this is the standard resolution for most, if not all, HDTV broadcasts.

    I was going to get a PS3 sometime in the coming months as a Blu-Ray player and for the games. Guess I'll have to check my TV compatibility now. I know it has HDMI 1.2 and a decent scaler, but I'll still have to check.

    PS - Anyone know the Blu-Ray situation on the scaling.

    The TV's native resolution does not mean it can't accept the other standard HD signals. The problem is mostly on old, cheap sets that can't scale. A 1080i set is just listing it's maximum supported native resolution, not saying that it can't display a 720p image at 1080i (it probably can).

    I suggest bringing in a laptop with DVI/HDMI converter and outputting 1080i, 1080p, and 720p to test any set. I brought my Gamecube in with a battery pack and component cables when I was shopping for a set that wouldn't stretch it like the Sammy (I returned the Sammy).

    CZroe on
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    LewiePLewieP Registered User regular
    edited January 2008
    CZroe wrote: »
    LewieP wrote: »
    Thank, once again, for your intelligent and in depth analysis.

    I gave you one sentence! ;) Anyway, it's a safe bet that nearly any set with an HDTV tuner scales to comply with the broadcast standard.
    haha, but I read everything.

    LewieP on
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    TxdoHawkTxdoHawk Registered User regular
    edited January 2008
    Quick question here, just to make sure my bases are covered. I have a 1080p HDTV incoming and a PS3 sitting at home waiting for it with an HDMI cable. If I set the system up to allow 480i/480p/720p/1080p, that will cover the bases for all games plus Blu-ray, right? From what I understand, all PS3 games support 720p, so by doing this I should either get native 1080p (if the game supports it) or a 720p signal that my TV will upscale. I am just trying to avoid interlaced signals when possible. (I forget if the PS3 can upscale PSX games, which is why I didn't toss 480i from that list.)

    TxdoHawk on
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    shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    edited January 2008
    Fuck this shit is too damn complicated. Stupid HD.

    shryke on
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    The Sneak!The Sneak! Registered User regular
    edited January 2008
    HUGALUGAHUAHUAHUA

    The Sneak! on
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    Shooter McgavinShooter Mcgavin Registered User regular
    edited January 2008
    I thought maybe someone might have an answer for this simple question. If my TV only displays 720P, will the PS3 downscale a blu-ray movie to 720p, or do I need to output at 1080i so my TV can downscale? Which is better? If the PS3 is not set up to do that automatically, how do I do it? Sorry, that was like 3 questions.

    Shooter Mcgavin on
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    CZroeCZroe Registered User regular
    edited January 2008
    TxdoHawk wrote: »
    Quick question here, just to make sure my bases are covered. I have a 1080p HDTV incoming and a PS3 sitting at home waiting for it with an HDMI cable. If I set the system up to allow 480i/480p/720p/1080p, that will cover the bases for all games plus Blu-ray, right?
    Yes, if your TV supports all of those resolutions.
    TxdoHawk wrote: »
    From what I understand, all PS3 games support 720p, so by doing this I should either get native 1080p (if the game supports it) or a 720p signal that my TV will upscale. I am just trying to avoid interlaced signals when possible. (I forget if the PS3 can upscale PSX games, which is why I didn't toss 480i from that list.)
    It can upscale PSX/PS2/DVD when using HDMI. It will prioritize 1080i over 720p for the games that support both unless you uncheck 1080i under the PS3 settings.
    I thought maybe someone might have an answer for this simple question. If my TV only displays 720P, will the PS3 downscale a blu-ray movie to 720p, or do I need to output at 1080i so my TV can downscale? Which is better? If the PS3 is not set up to do that automatically, how do I do it? Sorry, that was like 3 questions.

    Sony added support for downscaling BD to 720p. I'm not sure, but it might only work with HDMI/DVI+HDCP (like upscaling DVDs). The PS3 has always been able to output 1080i from 1080p-sourced BD. I can test this.

    CZroe on
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