Bear mounts are perfectly attainable with a 3-heal raid. Your DPS needs to not be asleep, and performing up to par. PvP specced Mages aren't going to cut it. PvP specced Rogues aren't going to cut it. MS Warriors are not going to cut it. Go in there and attack the place like you would a serious Raid Encounter, and you will be victorious.
Going in there with 2 healers adds stress on the healers, but if no one dies, and you still don't get the bear mount, you have no one to blame but your DPS. A Resto Shaman and a Druid with a SPriest should be able to DESTROY that place. Druid keeps the MT alive + random raid healing, and the shaman spams Chain heal goodness + NS heals if someone/MT gets low. Granted, those 2 healers are going to need to be geared pretty darn well.
my guild is full of slackers. I have 1250 +damage as an affliction lock and my holy priest gf has +2300 healing, almost entirely from badge gear. we haven't even set foot in SSC or beyond yet. we're carrying a guild we get nothing out of, in hopes that we will progress someday -_- QQ
If you truly get nothing out of the guild, then why stay? It sounds like you two would be quite capable of joining an existing raiding guild if you're well geared.
Take an enhancement shaman, in our experience across all our bear runs even alt enhancies have absolutely blown away the meters thanks to the constant fighting, the longer it goes on the better they perform
My guild only does the occasionally ZA run, at times I can't make. I want to see what DPS I can reach in there. Hit 666 DPS in Kara last night *yikes!*, but I was having to hold back due to threat cap issues
I'm in a T5 (5/6 2/4) guild and we roll with a similar crew each week. Prot pally and warrior. Priest, Holy pally and Rest druid. 2 mages, lock, random melee DPS and hunter. lately we've been pushing the third chest timer, we can get to DH's platform with 3 minutes but that's not enough time to kill the boss, we chain pull the hawk room, have my druid on the roots for scouts, all goes well but we just can't seem to squeeze out the extra time. It's almost as annoying as our Vashj wipes, but we clear the place easily enough though we generally get the prot warrior to swap to his healer for zul'jin.
Threat capped at 650ish? yikes. Tell the MT that our warlocks do 2200..... maybe he needs to work on his threat cycle a bit.
We're starting to make a dent into the twins (55% phase1), figured out a vital detail about conflag that's helping a lot, but we still need better positioning (raid getting stunned at times), and in my opinion change the way we deal with conflag in the first place.... atm we're relying on healers to react really fast..... 8 times in a row. That will kill us sooooo maaannnnyyy times when there's really no reason for it apart from 3 officers saying "We talked to Last Resort about this, they did it this way so so should we" despite an alternative tactic which has no noticable disadvantages except having a single priest respec because we don't have 4 raiding holy paladins.
SanderJK on
Steam: SanderJK Origin: SanderJK
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ThomamelasOnly one man can kill this many Russians. Bring his guitar to me! Registered Userregular
Threat capped at 650ish? yikes. Tell the MT that our warlocks do 2200..... maybe he needs to work on his threat cycle a bit.
We're starting to make a dent into the twins (55% phase1), figured out a vital detail about conflag that's helping a lot, but we still need better positioning (raid getting stunned at times), and in my opinion change the way we deal with conflag in the first place.... atm we're relying on healers to react really fast..... 8 times in a row. That will kill us sooooo maaannnnyyy times when there's really no reason for it apart from 3 officers saying "We talked to Last Resort about this, they did it this way so so should we" despite an alternative tactic which has no noticable disadvantages except having a single priest respec because we don't have 4 raiding holy paladins.
I wish people were better at understanding that just because Bosskillers says to do X, or this guild does Y doesn't mean it's optimal for what you should be doing. We had a couple of officers just salvating over getting another guilds Kael strat from the GL. They insisted that we had to do it that way. And a hammer had to be used to point out the following:
1. They run very few casters. We run very few melee.
2. They don't use a prot Paladin, we make heavy use of them.
3. And they have a fondness for overly complicated plans that require delicate timing.
So instead of having a tank on every weapon, we AoEed the bulk of them.
We had another idiot insist on using the old three group strat for Mother. It took a two weeks of attempts to convince people that the SR/hug the wall strat was better. Two attempts later...dead Mother.
Reading Bosskillers/other guilds strats/horse shit from your friend who's guild struggles to put together working groups for level 61 instances is okay but it doesn't substitute for knowledge of the fight mechanics and why you do things.
It's definitely about finding the right spec for you. We went with a modified LR setup which is what got us our final result. My primary concern on the tuning of the fight is the seeming reliance on 11+ healers, with nothing in the way of overgearing looking like it will help.
Theres a tonne of variables to worry about, shadows in the raid, confounding on the tanks. We made a sort of central group with a conflag zone near the wall, go there, and you will be healed, we hope >.>
There is plenty of luck in the fight still and it's pretty hard to diminish it all, which is why I've always likened it to prenerf Mother, players and the RNG need to be on top form : b
On Bosskillers: I hate that site, it's got a pretty long history of misinforming people and then these retards insist on laying it all out in raid chat while you outline a strategy, gah. My personal favourite was that it was range on flames that kept you immune from charge. I argued with plenty of window lickers in my guild and others over my diagrams showing that it was the blades that did it.
Threat capped at 650ish? yikes. Tell the MT that our warlocks do 2200..... maybe he needs to work on his threat cycle a bit.
We're starting to make a dent into the twins (55% phase1), figured out a vital detail about conflag that's helping a lot, but we still need better positioning (raid getting stunned at times), and in my opinion change the way we deal with conflag in the first place.... atm we're relying on healers to react really fast..... 8 times in a row. That will kill us sooooo maaannnnyyy times when there's really no reason for it apart from 3 officers saying "We talked to Last Resort about this, they did it this way so so should we" despite an alternative tactic which has no noticable disadvantages except having a single priest respec because we don't have 4 raiding holy paladins.
I wish people were better at understanding that just because Bosskillers says to do X, or this guild does Y doesn't mean it's optimal for what you should be doing. We had a couple of officers just salvating over getting another guilds Kael strat from the GL. They insisted that we had to do it that way. And a hammer had to be used to point out the following:
1. They run very few casters. We run very few melee.
2. They don't use a prot Paladin, we make heavy use of them.
3. And they have a fondness for overly complicated plans that require delicate timing.
OZNZ, perchance? I know they gave us strats way back when I was in MC/BWL, and they were pretty much always needlessly complicated weird shit that the raidlead stuck to like it was given unto him by God Almighty Himself. We could never consistantly get Razorgore down, and their strat bears most of the weight for that (the rest is held by our slack-ass DPS and tank churn).
Awesome, my guild downed Vashj tonight. Shame i can't raid her due to vent lag issues. But god, the thought of never tanking Hydross again makes me feel all warm and glowy inside. Now we have to decide where to go next, Al'ar and Kael or Hyjal then BT. I can safely say i don't want to see anymore T5 content, but our GM and RL want to play it by the book and do things in the right order, which is alright, when you arent banging your face off shit trash.
Elbow on
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ThomamelasOnly one man can kill this many Russians. Bring his guitar to me! Registered Userregular
Threat capped at 650ish? yikes. Tell the MT that our warlocks do 2200..... maybe he needs to work on his threat cycle a bit.
We're starting to make a dent into the twins (55% phase1), figured out a vital detail about conflag that's helping a lot, but we still need better positioning (raid getting stunned at times), and in my opinion change the way we deal with conflag in the first place.... atm we're relying on healers to react really fast..... 8 times in a row. That will kill us sooooo maaannnnyyy times when there's really no reason for it apart from 3 officers saying "We talked to Last Resort about this, they did it this way so so should we" despite an alternative tactic which has no noticable disadvantages except having a single priest respec because we don't have 4 raiding holy paladins.
I wish people were better at understanding that just because Bosskillers says to do X, or this guild does Y doesn't mean it's optimal for what you should be doing. We had a couple of officers just salvating over getting another guilds Kael strat from the GL. They insisted that we had to do it that way. And a hammer had to be used to point out the following:
1. They run very few casters. We run very few melee.
2. They don't use a prot Paladin, we make heavy use of them.
3. And they have a fondness for overly complicated plans that require delicate timing.
OZNZ, perchance? I know they gave us strats way back when I was in MC/BWL, and they were pretty much always needlessly complicated weird shit that the raidlead stuck to like it was given unto him by God Almighty Himself. We could never consistantly get Razorgore down, and their strat bears most of the weight for that (the rest is held by our slack-ass DPS and tank churn).
Vintage before Cons lost it. I'm pretty sure the original OZNZ came apart before that.
Thomamelas on
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Dhalphirdon't you open that trapdooryou're a fool if you dareRegistered Userregular
edited April 2008
I've never met a guild so focused and yet awesome as this one.
First night of ZA. 3/6 down. Second night. Jan'alai down. Third night, Hex Lord attempts. Next week, Hex Lord down. 5/6 in one night.
First night of 25mans on Sunday. HKM two-shot, as people learned the pull. Gruul one-shot on growth 9.
Mag one-shot.
VR two-shot. Lurker attempts tonight.
All of this happened in about two weeks time. From 2x Kara team clears to 5/6 ZA and into Tier 5 i'm pretty happy with.
Usually prot pally, a warrior, and a druid, and a DPS warrior "tanking" the kill targets for the melee. Last night we only had a prot pally and druid though, which was amusing.
We never had more than 3 when I think back. When we first got to Hyjal we had just lost a MT and were down to just the 3 actives, warrior and 2 ferals. But we were all 100% active so it didn't seem to be a problem
a) farming the mats for about 60 mana pots
b) rolling with flasks instead of 2x Elixir (figure with the potential wipage I might as well wait to throttle all the way up)
c) praying to his Lord Jeebus Christ since we have an EVENING of attempts lined up. 4 hours to slog away on this mofo.
EDIT - Only saving grace is that we have 2 mages, tops
If you are healing, definitely focus target Gurtogg. You should be casting heals on the fel-raged player before he is taking damage, its hard to catch up once you get behind.
So I hear that the first few Sunwell trash pulls are simple enough to farm with PUGs, apparently. Some rather-geared people doing it with as low as 10-12. Anyone here had any firsthand experience on how well that goes, what kind of gear level you'd need (T5?), etc?
SabreMau on
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AegisFear My DanceOvershot Toronto, Landed in OttawaRegistered Userregular
edited April 2008
Our guild (just getting back into SSC now, so mostly T4 stuff) was going to attempt the trash up to Kalecgos tonight actually. Could let you know later how it goes, but thanks for the link.
So I hear that the first few Sunwell trash pulls are simple enough to farm with PUGs, apparently. Some rather-geared people doing it with as low as 10-12. Anyone here had any firsthand experience on how well that goes, what kind of gear level you'd need (T5?), etc?
On occasion when my guild's been killing time waiting for a critical person to log in so we can work on Felmyst, we've organized alt runs of Sunwell trash farming, just for motes, patterns and gems. It's completely doable, if anything I'd say the robot you have to kill to get to the easily reset trash is the hardest part, at least if you have a bunch of squishy people and undergeared healers.
I remember we had commanding shout groups set up, that's how bad it was. Was very smooth once we got into the rhythm though.
What's the respawn timer on that robot? Once you get past it, can you keep farming and resetting the next two pulls for as long as you want? It says, "Do not kill the last mob, and instead reset the pull." but how is resetting the pull done? Just leash it by moving too far away, or what?
2nd guild ZA run ever last night was a rollercoaster of good and bad. Most of us have barely touched 25 man content and we were 15 seconds from getting the second chest so needless to say most of us were in good spirits. Went on to 2 shot the dragonhawk, get to the lynx boss and it was like hitting a brick wall. We spent 2 hours wiping on him. I have never had so much trouble healing, not even phase 2 of prince with an undergeared tank. When he frenzied he just tore apart our paladin like tissue paper. Do you NEED a hunter to tranq shot or are we doing something terribly wrong? Thinking about trying to bring in a 4th healer next time but not sure it would even help...
I am not sure, but when the dice were good phase 1 is fine. Just once an attempt the frenzy gets through the mitigation and it is lights out (when saber lash was not the cause of tank/off-tank death). We are going to try ironshield pots next week, we hope it will be enough.
Amun on
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Dhalphirdon't you open that trapdooryou're a fool if you dareRegistered Userregular
edited April 2008
they also generally have higher avoidance and have an easier time being uncrushable for a whole fight, especially against a fast attacking boss
We had a series of bullshit attempts as people got used to just HOW much healer spam needed to be on the Fel Rage target, and also had tanks who weren't avoiding the Arcing Smash and thus getting their acid breath / bite whatever DOT reapplied and whittling them down during Fel Rage, usually leading to an instagib when BB snapped back afterwards.
We kept a truid (myself) on tanks at all times, regardless of fel rage (although I'd usually swiftmend or rejuv the FR target a couple of times) 2 CoH priests and 2 shaman on the BB groups, and everyone else on the tanks / raid heals. The final attempt (as trash was respawning) we killed him with only a single death due to aggro issues (enhance shaman pulled, died, then popped).
What a crazy fucking fight.
Even crazier - we poked our heads in to visit Reliquary - then realized that the room before it is the suppression room or something similar? Am I missing something or do you just truck all the way through to the bottom of the stairs and then pull RoS?
Posts
also I'm doing a bear run next monday maybe, as the holy/prot paladin with tonnes of responsibility not to suck
so much pressure
must not fail
Going in there with 2 healers adds stress on the healers, but if no one dies, and you still don't get the bear mount, you have no one to blame but your DPS. A Resto Shaman and a Druid with a SPriest should be able to DESTROY that place. Druid keeps the MT alive + random raid healing, and the shaman spams Chain heal goodness + NS heals if someone/MT gets low. Granted, those 2 healers are going to need to be geared pretty darn well.
First Blood 85 Priest 80 Mage 85 Paladin 83 Druid 80 DK 85 Huntard 85 Shaman
"Tardo Wan" sounds like a Jedi that required 436 years to train and then killed himself by looking into his lightsaber while turning it on."
My guild only does the occasionally ZA run, at times I can't make. I want to see what DPS I can reach in there. Hit 666 DPS in Kara last night *yikes!*, but I was having to hold back due to threat cap issues
We're starting to make a dent into the twins (55% phase1), figured out a vital detail about conflag that's helping a lot, but we still need better positioning (raid getting stunned at times), and in my opinion change the way we deal with conflag in the first place.... atm we're relying on healers to react really fast..... 8 times in a row. That will kill us sooooo maaannnnyyy times when there's really no reason for it apart from 3 officers saying "We talked to Last Resort about this, they did it this way so so should we" despite an alternative tactic which has no noticable disadvantages except having a single priest respec because we don't have 4 raiding holy paladins.
I wish people were better at understanding that just because Bosskillers says to do X, or this guild does Y doesn't mean it's optimal for what you should be doing. We had a couple of officers just salvating over getting another guilds Kael strat from the GL. They insisted that we had to do it that way. And a hammer had to be used to point out the following:
1. They run very few casters. We run very few melee.
2. They don't use a prot Paladin, we make heavy use of them.
3. And they have a fondness for overly complicated plans that require delicate timing.
So instead of having a tank on every weapon, we AoEed the bulk of them.
We had another idiot insist on using the old three group strat for Mother. It took a two weeks of attempts to convince people that the SR/hug the wall strat was better. Two attempts later...dead Mother.
Reading Bosskillers/other guilds strats/horse shit from your friend who's guild struggles to put together working groups for level 61 instances is okay but it doesn't substitute for knowledge of the fight mechanics and why you do things.
Theres a tonne of variables to worry about, shadows in the raid, confounding on the tanks. We made a sort of central group with a conflag zone near the wall, go there, and you will be healed, we hope >.>
There is plenty of luck in the fight still and it's pretty hard to diminish it all, which is why I've always likened it to prenerf Mother, players and the RNG need to be on top form : b
On Bosskillers: I hate that site, it's got a pretty long history of misinforming people and then these retards insist on laying it all out in raid chat while you outline a strategy, gah. My personal favourite was that it was range on flames that kept you immune from charge. I argued with plenty of window lickers in my guild and others over my diagrams showing that it was the blades that did it.
Vintage before Cons lost it. I'm pretty sure the original OZNZ came apart before that.
First night of ZA. 3/6 down. Second night. Jan'alai down. Third night, Hex Lord attempts. Next week, Hex Lord down. 5/6 in one night.
First night of 25mans on Sunday. HKM two-shot, as people learned the pull. Gruul one-shot on growth 9.
Mag one-shot.
VR two-shot. Lurker attempts tonight.
All of this happened in about two weeks time. From 2x Kara team clears to 5/6 ZA and into Tier 5 i'm pretty happy with.
Redded for wrong. Go left, it's much faster.
that's why we call it the struggle, you're supposed to sweat
See, thats the point where my guild would start slacking off and start wiping to gruul again. In fact, thats what they did.
Ah, thank you, we've talked about it and we're gonna try it next time. Hopefully we can get the third chest soon.
Also, how many tanks do you guys roll with in hyjal? 4 or 5? We have a prot pally so that helps a lot but i'm not sure.
that's why we call it the struggle, you're supposed to sweat
a) farming the mats for about 60 mana pots
b) rolling with flasks instead of 2x Elixir (figure with the potential wipage I might as well wait to throttle all the way up)
c) praying to his Lord Jeebus Christ since we have an EVENING of attempts lined up. 4 hours to slog away on this mofo.
EDIT - Only saving grace is that we have 2 mages, tops
Even two mages is a pain in the ass just learning it, see if one guy has an alt.
Currently DMing: None
Characters
[5e] Dural Melairkyn - AC 18 | HP 40 | Melee +5/1d8+3 | Spell +4/DC 12
I remember we had commanding shout groups set up, that's how bad it was. Was very smooth once we got into the rhythm though.
that's why we call it the struggle, you're supposed to sweat
Do paladin tanks still struggle with mitigation in comparison to other tanks?
that's why we call it the struggle, you're supposed to sweat
we do lynx with four healers though
We had a series of bullshit attempts as people got used to just HOW much healer spam needed to be on the Fel Rage target, and also had tanks who weren't avoiding the Arcing Smash and thus getting their acid breath / bite whatever DOT reapplied and whittling them down during Fel Rage, usually leading to an instagib when BB snapped back afterwards.
We kept a truid (myself) on tanks at all times, regardless of fel rage (although I'd usually swiftmend or rejuv the FR target a couple of times) 2 CoH priests and 2 shaman on the BB groups, and everyone else on the tanks / raid heals. The final attempt (as trash was respawning) we killed him with only a single death due to aggro issues (enhance shaman pulled, died, then popped).
What a crazy fucking fight.
Even crazier - we poked our heads in to visit Reliquary - then realized that the room before it is the suppression room or something similar? Am I missing something or do you just truck all the way through to the bottom of the stairs and then pull RoS?