As long as we're discussing our view on the consoles, allow me to say this:
I could be perfectly happy with a PSP and a DS as my gaming systems for the rest of the generation. The entire home console market thus far is a complete mess with a few shining patches of competence.
The nation of Japan would seem to largely agree with this sentiment.
As long as we're discussing our view on the consoles, allow me to say this:
I could be perfectly happy with a PSP and a DS as my gaming systems for the rest of the generation. The entire home console market thus far is a complete mess with a few shining patches of competence.
I am the exact opposite of you hurray! I have owned both a DS (sold it a month ago) and a PSP. I still use my PSP rarely. The DS had been collecting dust for about a year or ever since I got sick of EBA so I got rid of it. On the other hand my 360 and PS3 see almost daily use. I like to be absolutely immersed in my games and large screen and 5.1 audio setup really do the trick.
Would be nice to see less game delays, didn't Haze just get pushed back for a 3rd time I think (for an example)?
From one perspective yes, it's always better to get something sooner rather than later, but I would much, much rather see a game be held back until it's properly finished, rather than released in an unfinished/unpolished state. That's why I'm actually sometimes happy to see a game get pushed back, because while it means I have to wait to play it, it should mean the game I get to play is that much better.
Man Balemin I don't want to crap on your honeymoon, but the mass market just doesn't agree with you.
And I truly do believe that the casual "own only 2 or 3 sports titles" gamers DO think the PS3 is better ... it just wasn't affordable before. And now it is.
How can you know this?
I used "my opinion" many times in my last post specifically to make it clear that I'm not speaking for everyone (or even stating factual information for that matter) ... it's just how I feel in part from talking to many folks lots of whom don't own any current get console at all (they still have old Xbox's and PS2's).
I still think there alot of people out there that haven't bought in to this generation yet. While I still think the 360 will beat the PS3 install base wise, I think the PS3 is going to do alot of catching up as the value proposition hardware wise has greatly improved in the past year, surpassing (in my opinion) the 360.
I just wanted to add that the example of the "casual gamer" you used - the one buying EA sports games, is an interesting one.
Despite having a little less than twice the installed base as the PS3, the 360 is actually selling 3 to 4 times as much EA software - Madden, Fifa, Tiger, Rock Band, etc - on the 360 as opposed to the PS3. EA pulled in $218M in revenue from the 360, and a meager $17M from the PS3 in their last financial report (and for comparison purposes $59M on the Wii). EA has made the 360 its lead SKU, and so far as I can tell, most of its software runs equally if not much better on the 360 than the PS3.
Also, another casual title, Guitar Hero, has made the vast majority of its sales on the 360 and Wii [barring the PS2].
So... if indeed a lot of casual gamers are buying the PS3 for EA and casual games.. they aren't buying many Maddens or music games, comparatively..
In britain its the price difference on everything that makes the difference, you can get an elite and a ps3 for roughly the same price but every game on the ps3 is a fiver to tenner more expensive and the playstation network is the shittest thing known to man over here, fuck all games and fuck all demos, the ones we do get are 3 weeks late.
Man Balemin I don't want to crap on your honeymoon, but the mass market just doesn't agree with you.
And I truly do believe that the casual "own only 2 or 3 sports titles" gamers DO think the PS3 is better ... it just wasn't affordable before. And now it is.
How can you know this?
I used "my opinion" many times in my last post specifically to make it clear that I'm not speaking for everyone (or even stating factual information for that matter) ... it's just how I feel in part from talking to many folks lots of whom don't own any current get console at all (they still have old Xbox's and PS2's).
I still think there alot of people out there that haven't bought in to this generation yet. While I still think the 360 will beat the PS3 install base wise, I think the PS3 is going to do alot of catching up as the value proposition hardware wise has greatly improved in the past year, surpassing (in my opinion) the 360.
I just wanted to add that the example of the "casual gamer" you used - the one buying EA sports games, is an interesting one.
Despite having a little less than twice the installed base as the PS3, the 360 is actually selling 3 to 4 times as much EA software - Madden, Fifa, Tiger, Rock Band, etc - on the 360 as opposed to the PS3. EA pulled in $218M in revenue from the 360, and a meager $17M from the PS3 in their last financial report (and for comparison purposes $59M on the Wii). EA has made the 360 its lead SKU, and so far as I can tell, most of its software runs equally if not much better on the 360 than the PS3.
Also, another casual title, Guitar Hero, has made the vast majority of its sales on the 360 and Wii [barring the PS2].
So... if indeed a lot of casual gamers are buying the PS3 for EA and casual games.. they aren't buying many Maddens or music games, comparatively..
My example is going under the assumption that many casual Madden fans are still playing Madden ... on their PS2. I believe that the majority of "true" casual gamers haven't bought into this gen yet due in part to pricing.
I also am working under the assumption that alot of these folks (who haven't bought into next gen yet) think "Playstation" when they think of video games.
I'm willing to admit I may be wrong though, particularly as I'm just going off generalized circumstantial evidence.. Attitudes change with time, and these hypothetical casual gamers may have already bought into next gen systems already. Certainly the install base of the 360 is growing at a steady pace, and I think it's fair to say that the 360 has made a much bigger mark on the mainstream consciousness than the original Xbox did.
I'm basing alot of my assumptions off comments alot of guys around my age (30 +) make to me when asking for advice on consoles. I'm considered the "tech/videogame" guy within my peer group, and I find in these discussions the PS3 is always the first console mentioned.
Again this is just my own experience, I have no numbers to back it up.
As long as we're discussing our view on the consoles, allow me to say this:
I could be perfectly happy with a PSP and a DS as my gaming systems for the rest of the generation. The entire home console market thus far is a complete mess with a few shining patches of competence.
I am the exact opposite of you hurray! I have owned both a DS (sold it a month ago) and a PSP. I still use my PSP rarely. The DS had been collecting dust for about a year or ever since I got sick of EBA so I got rid of it. On the other hand my 360 and PS3 see almost daily use. I like to be absolutely immersed in my games and large screen and 5.1 audio setup really do the trick.
Any good game should immerse you. Perhaps try new portable games?
To stay absolute top of the line, sure, it might be 600 a year or more. Only the craziest of people would do that.
To play all the games at mid to high settings is more like 600 bucks every four years. Less if you work hard on sales.
Still more than a console, but c'mon.
Support issues? Absolutely can be a problem. Source engine games didn't like my video card driver for a long time. But that worked itself out.
Before the GBA I would have laughed at a portable only gamer. I mean besides destination games like Link's Awakening or Pokemon you'd only play the game on a trip or what have you. I was a pretty big portable guy in the day (At one point I had every domestically released Game Boy and Game Boy Pocket and the vast majority of all released titles) and I still would have put console gaming on a whole different level than portables. Last generation the GBA jockyed with the GCN as my most used system, with the GBA probably pulling ahead of the GCN when the gameboy player launched. The DS is like that, only with more features and a more robust library. It's not trying to be like the consoles, it's trying to push past that.
That is also my main beef with the PSP. The vast majority of early titles felt like games I played on the PS2, only on a smaller screen and sometime with much longer loads. That and the unit itself had a terrible battery life, cost too much money, and was pretty flimsy. Since mid 2007 the situation has been changing. Better games, better hardware, longer battery life, and a bit cheaper. I still only play maybe one PSP game every few months but if someone was really in love with the library I could totally see them going PSP/DS exclusively. Especially if you had a long ass train commute, or are a student stuck on campus for a few hours between classes.
Also streaming PSX games to your PSP via the PS3 is pretty tight. It's probably not going to be a common experience for most gamers, but it is one of many seldom sung features of the giant black dust magnet.
Man Balemin I don't want to crap on your honeymoon, but the mass market just doesn't agree with you.
And I truly do believe that the casual "own only 2 or 3 sports titles" gamers DO think the PS3 is better ... it just wasn't affordable before. And now it is.
How can you know this?
I used "my opinion" many times in my last post specifically to make it clear that I'm not speaking for everyone (or even stating factual information for that matter) ... it's just how I feel in part from talking to many folks lots of whom don't own any current get console at all (they still have old Xbox's and PS2's).
I still think there alot of people out there that haven't bought in to this generation yet. While I still think the 360 will beat the PS3 install base wise, I think the PS3 is going to do alot of catching up as the value proposition hardware wise has greatly improved in the past year, surpassing (in my opinion) the 360.
I just wanted to add that the example of the "casual gamer" you used - the one buying EA sports games, is an interesting one.
Despite having a little less than twice the installed base as the PS3, the 360 is actually selling 3 to 4 times as much EA software - Madden, Fifa, Tiger, Rock Band, etc - on the 360 as opposed to the PS3. EA pulled in $218M in revenue from the 360, and a meager $17M from the PS3 in their last financial report (and for comparison purposes $59M on the Wii). EA has made the 360 its lead SKU, and so far as I can tell, most of its software runs equally if not much better on the 360 than the PS3.
Also, another casual title, Guitar Hero, has made the vast majority of its sales on the 360 and Wii [barring the PS2].
So... if indeed a lot of casual gamers are buying the PS3 for EA and casual games.. they aren't buying many Maddens or music games, comparatively..
I think you might be forgetting that the average install base for 2007 is going to be smaller for the PS3 since it started very close to zero and the 360 started with a year's worth of sales. That is to say the ratio of PS3s to 360s was much smaller in January than in December.
lowlylowlycook on
(Please do not gift. My game bank is already full.)
As long as we're discussing our view on the consoles, allow me to say this:
I could be perfectly happy with a PSP and a DS as my gaming systems for the rest of the generation. The entire home console market thus far is a complete mess with a few shining patches of competence.
I am the exact opposite of you hurray! I have owned both a DS (sold it a month ago) and a PSP. I still use my PSP rarely. The DS had been collecting dust for about a year or ever since I got sick of EBA so I got rid of it. On the other hand my 360 and PS3 see almost daily use. I like to be absolutely immersed in my games and large screen and 5.1 audio setup really do the trick.
Any good game should immerse you. Perhaps try new portable games?
Yeah, a good game is a good game. Though I hate how many handheld games are just portable versions of console games. In those cases, I will always play it on a console. I bought a PSP, but after trying every game I found interesting, I ran out of fun after a month, and sold it. I still cling to my DS, even though I don't play it very often, because once in a blue moon, it gets a real gem that I must play.
Also, all these flow charts fail. Especially the first one. Like Video Games? No. Buy a console? That's PC elitism at its worst.
Only good flow chart I could find (though, not G&T related)
As long as we're discussing our view on the consoles, allow me to say this:
I could be perfectly happy with a PSP and a DS as my gaming systems for the rest of the generation. The entire home console market thus far is a complete mess with a few shining patches of competence.
I am the exact opposite of you hurray! I have owned both a DS (sold it a month ago) and a PSP. I still use my PSP rarely. The DS had been collecting dust for about a year or ever since I got sick of EBA so I got rid of it. On the other hand my 360 and PS3 see almost daily use. I like to be absolutely immersed in my games and large screen and 5.1 audio setup really do the trick.
Any good game should immerse you. Perhaps try new portable games?
That is like saying watching a movie pan and scan on 13" tv is as good as seeing it at a state of the art theater. It just isn't the same. It is not like I haven't given it a try. I have about 30 DS games still sitting on my shelf. I played them all. It just isn't as fun for me. I am happy for the people who enjoy it, just like I am happy for people who love their Wii. It just isn't for me.
corin7 on
0
Dr Mario KartGames DealerAustin, TXRegistered Userregular
edited January 2008
In my mind, the developer shift to portables is saying, "We want high marketshare and lower dev costs."
It's important to note that this is largely a Japanese shift. The West has seen great success on the X360 in general, so they've little incentive to move. Not that Western developers ever cared much about handhelds anyway.
Pureauthor on
SS FC: 1334 0950 5927
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0
Dr Mario KartGames DealerAustin, TXRegistered Userregular
edited January 2008
In that respect, maybe they will indeed come around. I dont know how many more generations we can continue to raise development costs at the current pace before the business model isnt viable.
In that respect, maybe they will indeed come around. I dont know how many more generations we can continue to raise development costs at the current pace before the business model isnt viable.
This might be it. Nintendo is teaching quite a lesson that the 'graphical arms race' is completely unnecessary. I will lay money on the prediction that the next gen is a much smaller technological leap.
Gears of War was already pretty set to be a system seller. I don't think anybody realistically thought it wouldn't be. MS hyped the shit out of that game and it was the first triple AAA super-big straight-up action shooter release for the 360 that had MS's full force behind it. Just because a franchise is new doesn't mean it can't be planned as a system seller. Bioshock, though a great game, wasn't a real system seller. Again, it seems to me that it mostly sold to people who already had 360's (Most likely people who already bought a 360 for GoW or Halo 3), despite the large amount of hype heaped in it's holster.
Right, and I'm saying that any of these other games can have the same impact as Gears and BioShock did if they have proper hype and marketing behind them.
Man Balemin I don't want to crap on your honeymoon, but the mass market just doesn't agree with you.
And I truly do believe that the casual "own only 2 or 3 sports titles" gamers DO think the PS3 is better ... it just wasn't affordable before. And now it is.
How can you know this?
I used "my opinion" many times in my last post specifically to make it clear that I'm not speaking for everyone (or even stating factual information for that matter) ... it's just how I feel in part from talking to many folks lots of whom don't own any current get console at all (they still have old Xbox's and PS2's).
I still think there alot of people out there that haven't bought in to this generation yet. While I still think the 360 will beat the PS3 install base wise, I think the PS3 is going to do alot of catching up as the value proposition hardware wise has greatly improved in the past year, surpassing (in my opinion) the 360.
I just wanted to add that the example of the "casual gamer" you used - the one buying EA sports games, is an interesting one.
Despite having a little less than twice the installed base as the PS3, the 360 is actually selling 3 to 4 times as much EA software - Madden, Fifa, Tiger, Rock Band, etc - on the 360 as opposed to the PS3. EA pulled in $218M in revenue from the 360, and a meager $17M from the PS3 in their last financial report (and for comparison purposes $59M on the Wii). EA has made the 360 its lead SKU, and so far as I can tell, most of its software runs equally if not much better on the 360 than the PS3.
Also, another casual title, Guitar Hero, has made the vast majority of its sales on the 360 and Wii [barring the PS2].
So... if indeed a lot of casual gamers are buying the PS3 for EA and casual games.. they aren't buying many Maddens or music games, comparatively..
My example is going under the assumption that many casual Madden fans are still playing Madden ... on their PS2. I believe that the majority of "true" casual gamers haven't bought into this gen yet due in part to pricing.
I also am working under the assumption that alot of these folks (who haven't bought into next gen yet) think "Playstation" when they think of video games.
I'm willing to admit I may be wrong though, particularly as I'm just going off generalized circumstantial evidence.. Attitudes change with time, and these hypothetical casual gamers may have already bought into next gen systems already. Certainly the install base of the 360 is growing at a steady pace, and I think it's fair to say that the 360 has made a much bigger mark on the mainstream consciousness than the original Xbox did.
I'm basing alot of my assumptions off comments alot of guys around my age (30 +) make to me when asking for advice on consoles. I'm considered the "tech/videogame" guy within my peer group, and I find in these discussions the PS3 is always the first console mentioned.
Again this is just my own experience, I have no numbers to back it up.
Well I wasn't saying that software sales of the two consoles is indicative that most casual gamers have made their choice; I agree that most of these people in question are still playing Madden on their PS2s.
But what evidence we do have about those that are and have been making the shift to the current generation, the far greater momentum has been in the 360's favor.
It is not completely conclusive evidence, but it is evidence that goes at least somewhat beyond just personal, generalized, circumstantial evidence. The reason I say that is because another person can come along with personal circumstantial evidence to the effect of, "I'm the tech guru in my group of adults, and the 360 seems to be the big favorite," and that personal opinion would have equal weight to the opinion that you've posted.
Again, it's all good. I'm just saying that I think it's interesting how the market is treating EA's stuff right now. Its software sales are not correlating exactly with installed bases; the EA software sales are disproportionately favoring the 360 right now - even after you adjust for greater installed base.
Man Balemin I don't want to crap on your honeymoon, but the mass market just doesn't agree with you.
And I truly do believe that the casual "own only 2 or 3 sports titles" gamers DO think the PS3 is better ... it just wasn't affordable before. And now it is.
How can you know this?
I used "my opinion" many times in my last post specifically to make it clear that I'm not speaking for everyone (or even stating factual information for that matter) ... it's just how I feel in part from talking to many folks lots of whom don't own any current get console at all (they still have old Xbox's and PS2's).
I still think there alot of people out there that haven't bought in to this generation yet. While I still think the 360 will beat the PS3 install base wise, I think the PS3 is going to do alot of catching up as the value proposition hardware wise has greatly improved in the past year, surpassing (in my opinion) the 360.
I just wanted to add that the example of the "casual gamer" you used - the one buying EA sports games, is an interesting one.
Despite having a little less than twice the installed base as the PS3, the 360 is actually selling 3 to 4 times as much EA software - Madden, Fifa, Tiger, Rock Band, etc - on the 360 as opposed to the PS3. EA pulled in $218M in revenue from the 360, and a meager $17M from the PS3 in their last financial report (and for comparison purposes $59M on the Wii). EA has made the 360 its lead SKU, and so far as I can tell, most of its software runs equally if not much better on the 360 than the PS3.
Also, another casual title, Guitar Hero, has made the vast majority of its sales on the 360 and Wii [barring the PS2].
So... if indeed a lot of casual gamers are buying the PS3 for EA and casual games.. they aren't buying many Maddens or music games, comparatively..
My example is going under the assumption that many casual Madden fans are still playing Madden ... on their PS2. I believe that the majority of "true" casual gamers haven't bought into this gen yet due in part to pricing.
I also am working under the assumption that alot of these folks (who haven't bought into next gen yet) think "Playstation" when they think of video games.
I'm willing to admit I may be wrong though, particularly as I'm just going off generalized circumstantial evidence.. Attitudes change with time, and these hypothetical casual gamers may have already bought into next gen systems already. Certainly the install base of the 360 is growing at a steady pace, and I think it's fair to say that the 360 has made a much bigger mark on the mainstream consciousness than the original Xbox did.
I'm basing alot of my assumptions off comments alot of guys around my age (30 +) make to me when asking for advice on consoles. I'm considered the "tech/videogame" guy within my peer group, and I find in these discussions the PS3 is always the first console mentioned.
Again this is just my own experience, I have no numbers to back it up.
Well I wasn't saying that software sales of the two consoles is indicative that most casual gamers have made their choice; I agree that most of these people in question are still playing Madden on their PS2s.
But what evidence we do have about those that are and have been making the shift to the current generation, the far greater momentum has been in the 360's favor.
It is not completely conclusive evidence, but it is evidence that goes at least somewhat beyond just personal, generalized, circumstantial evidence. The reason I say that is because another person can come along with personal circumstantial evidence to the effect of, "I'm the tech guru in my group of adults, and the 360 seems to be the big favorite," and that personal opinion would have equal weight to the opinion that you've posted.
This is true. Last night were late night ramblings and I took great pains to make it clear the thoughts I typed out were solely opinion based on generalized feelings and my experience with friends as well as observations in stores.
It is true that momentum favours the 360 right now, although I would argue that this is based in a large part on the 1 year advantage it has on the PS3.
It will be interesting to see where things stand in January 2009. I'm guessing the 360 will still have a fairly sizable lead (install base wise) over the PS3, however I do think that lead will be smaller than it is today.
The lead is getting smaller as of the drop to $400. The real point of contention is just how fast that lead is getting smaller. Some people think that lead is getting smaller so fast that by the end of this year, the gap will be completely closed. I think that's completely absurd, as I've pointed out, the PS3 would have pull holiday-level numbers every month for the rest of the year to catch up with the 360, assuming the 360 maintains its average sales rate.
The lead is getting smaller as of the drop to $400.
Um, isn't the lead getting bigger? At least in the US that's the case; the XBox 360 continues to outsell the PS3 on a month to month basis.
Well, it's hard to tell with the European numbers being so highly questionable.
In the USA, the lead just keeps getting bigger, bigger, bigger.
And in Japan, the PS3 helps a bit to balance that out.
EU is doing great numbers for the PS3, but solid numbers are hard to come by.
It really is a question of whether the EU+Japan can outweigh the increasingly widening gap of sales and sales rates within the US, which is the the most enormous market.
If you look at Xbox and the PS3 you have a bit of an issue. First if you look at the Xbox, it has been out for a while, and has a huge library, established user base and a well developed on-line community. The PS3 has just come into its own. It looks to me that the Xbox 360 is going to wind down readying itself for the Xbox 1080? or what ever. While the PS3 just started. Also the fact that the PS3 is a Blueray player with many addons for the same price as just blue ray players can not hurt the deal. But when it comes down to video games. The xbox is just going to stay in front, until it dies, or a new console is announced.
Sadly threads like this seem to get started by those who spend money on a PS3 and feel like they need to justify it. It will happen, just give it time, if you like to play it play, otherwise who cares?
Gears of War was already pretty set to be a system seller. I don't think anybody realistically thought it wouldn't be. MS hyped the shit out of that game and it was the first triple AAA super-big straight-up action shooter release for the 360 that had MS's full force behind it. Just because a franchise is new doesn't mean it can't be planned as a system seller. Bioshock, though a great game, wasn't a real system seller. Again, it seems to me that it mostly sold to people who already had 360's (Most likely people who already bought a 360 for GoW or Halo 3), despite the large amount of hype heaped in it's holster.
Right, and I'm saying that any of these other games can have the same impact as Gears and BioShock did if they have proper hype and marketing behind them.
But Bioshock didn't have an significant impact on sales as far as I can tell (Not in the vien of Gears or Halo), and Gears was set up from the get go as a system seller. It didn't get turned into a system seller, it was planned to the first huge game to fill a specific niche (since they wouldn't have Halo until the next year). None of these other titles have been set up like that.
If you look at Xbox and the PS3 you have a bit of an issue. First if you look at the Xbox, it has been out for a while, and has a huge library, established user base and a well developed on-line community. The PS3 has just come into its own. It looks to me that the Xbox 360 is going to wind down readying itself for the Xbox 1080? or what ever. While the PS3 just started. Also the fact that the PS3 is a Blueray player with many addons for the same price as just blue ray players can not hurt the deal. But when it comes down to video games. The xbox is just going to stay in front, until it dies, or a new console is announced.
Sadly threads like this seem to get started by those who spend money on a PS3 and feel like they need to justify it. It will happen, just give it time, if you like to play it play, otherwise who cares?
*gets off soap box*
Um, what?
That's not gonna happen. The 360 is gonna be around for awhile. another 3 years at least I'd say. Almost certainly more. 4-5 I'm betting.
If you look at Xbox and the PS3 you have a bit of an issue. First if you look at the Xbox, it has been out for a while, and has a huge library, established user base and a well developed on-line community. The PS3 has just come into its own. It looks to me that the Xbox 360 is going to wind down readying itself for the Xbox 1080? or what ever. While the PS3 just started. Also the fact that the PS3 is a Blueray player with many addons for the same price as just blue ray players can not hurt the deal. But when it comes down to video games. The xbox is just going to stay in front, until it dies, or a new console is announced.
Sadly threads like this seem to get started by those who spend money on a PS3 and feel like they need to justify it. It will happen, just give it time, if you like to play it play, otherwise who cares?
*gets off soap box*
Um, what?
That's not gonna happen. The 360 is gonna be around for awhile. another 3 years at least I'd say. Almost certainly more. 4-5 I'm betting.
No doubt. The 360 and PS3 are just now reaching towards the kind or price that consoles should really launch at. Until someone can make a console that is a significant upgrade for at the very most $400 what would be the point in a new generation?
As it is, not enough people seem to care about HD gaming yet and it seems unlikely that whatever comes next will be such a clear, marketable upgrade.
Of course someone at MS, Sony or Nintendo might come up with the next waggle and convince the suites to go with it but that doesn't seem likely.
lowlylowlycook on
(Please do not gift. My game bank is already full.)
When does MGS4 come out? Next year? I'm really itching to see how Sony handles the marketing for that one (well, Sony's marketing company). That should be an interesting day. Don't they need to sell a ridiculous amount of copies on the first day to break even?
If you look at Xbox and the PS3 you have a bit of an issue. First if you look at the Xbox, it has been out for a while, and has a huge library, established user base and a well developed on-line community. The PS3 has just come into its own. It looks to me that the Xbox 360 is going to wind down readying itself for the Xbox 1080? or what ever. While the PS3 just started. Also the fact that the PS3 is a Blueray player with many addons for the same price as just blue ray players can not hurt the deal. But when it comes down to video games. The xbox is just going to stay in front, until it dies, or a new console is announced.
Sadly threads like this seem to get started by those who spend money on a PS3 and feel like they need to justify it. It will happen, just give it time, if you like to play it play, otherwise who cares?
*gets off soap box*
Um, what?
That's not gonna happen. The 360 is gonna be around for awhile. another 3 years at least I'd say. Almost certainly more. 4-5 I'm betting.
I think that MS would be well served to keep this generation going as long as possible.
If this gen has taught us anything, it's that the current rankings mean absolutely nothing in predicting the hierarchy of what's coming next. This gen, it's a complete inversion.
So, considering that MS is sitting pretty well, and will maybe make some sort of profit in the sort of seeable future, they have no reason to take a gamble again on another console, until they're forced too.
Nintendo certainly has no reason to change anything. They're printing money as fast as they can build the consoles. And Sony is not in a position to, either -- they're console is only 1 year old, is still aces technologically, and is still probably a pawn in their war to finish the hi-def media fight.
4-5 years seems likely. It would give Nintendo and Sony the standard 5 year cycle, and I'm sure MS is happy to get an extra year of viability for their console.
When does MGS4 come out? Next year? I'm really itching to see how Sony handles the marketing for that one (well, Sony's marketing company). That should be an interesting day. Don't they need to sell a ridiculous amount of copies on the first day to break even?
Q2 of this year, which goes from the start of April to the end of June.
And we have no clue how much they need to sell to break even. A journalist reported that they had to sell a million on day one but Ryan Payton later said on his podcast that the journalist fed those words into his mouth. Ryan has said a few times that he has no clue how much they have to sell.
Well, from what I understand is that the "1 million, day one" thing was a mere sentiment, not to be taken directly as a fact, that due to the nature of console games [with notable exceptions] usually being front-loaded in sales, they would like to sell a million copies in that front-loaded end because since sales trail off thereafter, they would be disappointed if it did otherwise. I would maybe consider "1M, day 1" was sort of a loose way of saying, "hopefully we'll hit around a million within the first few weeks." Or maybe first month. Anyway, I doubt they've dumped so much money into it that it wouldn't break at least break even at 1 million. I think the typical average thrown about for the HD systems is 450-500k to 'break even.'
Meh whatever. I don't think Konami has much to fear about MGS4 selling well. I'll leave Unco to fill us in on anything else related to that though.
Meh whatever. I don't think Konami has much to fear about MGS4 selling well. I'll leave Unco to fill us in on anything else related to that though.
I think the main worry would be that GTA4 is scheduled to come out on April 29th which is right in the middle of the 3 month period that MGS4 is scheduled to come out. Wasn't there a lot of talk back when MGS3 was released that its relatively disappointing sales may have been due to GTA?
Meh whatever. I don't think Konami has much to fear about MGS4 selling well. I'll leave Unco to fill us in on anything else related to that though.
I think the main worry would be that GTA4 is scheduled to come out on April 29th which is right in the middle of the 3 month period that MGS4 is scheduled to come out. Wasn't there a lot of talk back when MGS3 was released that its relatively disappointing sales may have been due to GTA?
Not just due to GTA, but to the typical onslaught of holiday releases around that time.
Meh whatever. I don't think Konami has much to fear about MGS4 selling well. I'll leave Unco to fill us in on anything else related to that though.
I think the main worry would be that GTA4 is scheduled to come out on April 29th which is right in the middle of the 3 month period that MGS4 is scheduled to come out. Wasn't there a lot of talk back when MGS3 was released that its relatively disappointing sales may have been due to GTA?
Not just due to GTA, but to the typical onslaught of holiday releases around that time.
Yeah, on other systems there was Halo 2 and Half-Life 2, among others.
Meh whatever. I don't think Konami has much to fear about MGS4 selling well. I'll leave Unco to fill us in on anything else related to that though.
I think the main worry would be that GTA4 is scheduled to come out on April 29th which is right in the middle of the 3 month period that MGS4 is scheduled to come out. Wasn't there a lot of talk back when MGS3 was released that its relatively disappointing sales may have been due to GTA?
Not just due to GTA, but to the typical onslaught of holiday releases around that time.
Yeah, on other systems there was Halo 2 and Half-Life 2, among others.
And WoW.
That was a devastating Christmas for people's wallets
Posts
The nation of Japan would seem to largely agree with this sentiment.
Platinum FC: 2880 3245 5111
I am the exact opposite of you hurray! I have owned both a DS (sold it a month ago) and a PSP. I still use my PSP rarely. The DS had been collecting dust for about a year or ever since I got sick of EBA so I got rid of it. On the other hand my 360 and PS3 see almost daily use. I like to be absolutely immersed in my games and large screen and 5.1 audio setup really do the trick.
From one perspective yes, it's always better to get something sooner rather than later, but I would much, much rather see a game be held back until it's properly finished, rather than released in an unfinished/unpolished state. That's why I'm actually sometimes happy to see a game get pushed back, because while it means I have to wait to play it, it should mean the game I get to play is that much better.
I just wanted to add that the example of the "casual gamer" you used - the one buying EA sports games, is an interesting one.
Despite having a little less than twice the installed base as the PS3, the 360 is actually selling 3 to 4 times as much EA software - Madden, Fifa, Tiger, Rock Band, etc - on the 360 as opposed to the PS3. EA pulled in $218M in revenue from the 360, and a meager $17M from the PS3 in their last financial report (and for comparison purposes $59M on the Wii). EA has made the 360 its lead SKU, and so far as I can tell, most of its software runs equally if not much better on the 360 than the PS3.
Also, another casual title, Guitar Hero, has made the vast majority of its sales on the 360 and Wii [barring the PS2].
So... if indeed a lot of casual gamers are buying the PS3 for EA and casual games.. they aren't buying many Maddens or music games, comparatively..
Steam ID: slashx000______Twitter: @bill_at_zeboyd______ Facebook: Zeboyd Games
You should buy a PC if all you like playing is faceless MMOs and RTS'.
And also don't mind shelling out 600$ every year.
And like buying games from Steam but not the ability to play them on launch day.
And like messin around with bad drivers.
And editing batch files.
My example is going under the assumption that many casual Madden fans are still playing Madden ... on their PS2. I believe that the majority of "true" casual gamers haven't bought into this gen yet due in part to pricing.
I also am working under the assumption that alot of these folks (who haven't bought into next gen yet) think "Playstation" when they think of video games.
I'm willing to admit I may be wrong though, particularly as I'm just going off generalized circumstantial evidence.. Attitudes change with time, and these hypothetical casual gamers may have already bought into next gen systems already. Certainly the install base of the 360 is growing at a steady pace, and I think it's fair to say that the 360 has made a much bigger mark on the mainstream consciousness than the original Xbox did.
I'm basing alot of my assumptions off comments alot of guys around my age (30 +) make to me when asking for advice on consoles. I'm considered the "tech/videogame" guy within my peer group, and I find in these discussions the PS3 is always the first console mentioned.
Again this is just my own experience, I have no numbers to back it up.
Any good game should immerse you. Perhaps try new portable games?
To play all the games at mid to high settings is more like 600 bucks every four years. Less if you work hard on sales.
Still more than a console, but c'mon.
Support issues? Absolutely can be a problem. Source engine games didn't like my video card driver for a long time. But that worked itself out.
Before the GBA I would have laughed at a portable only gamer. I mean besides destination games like Link's Awakening or Pokemon you'd only play the game on a trip or what have you. I was a pretty big portable guy in the day (At one point I had every domestically released Game Boy and Game Boy Pocket and the vast majority of all released titles) and I still would have put console gaming on a whole different level than portables. Last generation the GBA jockyed with the GCN as my most used system, with the GBA probably pulling ahead of the GCN when the gameboy player launched. The DS is like that, only with more features and a more robust library. It's not trying to be like the consoles, it's trying to push past that.
That is also my main beef with the PSP. The vast majority of early titles felt like games I played on the PS2, only on a smaller screen and sometime with much longer loads. That and the unit itself had a terrible battery life, cost too much money, and was pretty flimsy. Since mid 2007 the situation has been changing. Better games, better hardware, longer battery life, and a bit cheaper. I still only play maybe one PSP game every few months but if someone was really in love with the library I could totally see them going PSP/DS exclusively. Especially if you had a long ass train commute, or are a student stuck on campus for a few hours between classes.
Also streaming PSX games to your PSP via the PS3 is pretty tight. It's probably not going to be a common experience for most gamers, but it is one of many seldom sung features of the giant black dust magnet.
So to sum up this thread:
P.S. I keed, I keed!
I think you might be forgetting that the average install base for 2007 is going to be smaller for the PS3 since it started very close to zero and the 360 started with a year's worth of sales. That is to say the ratio of PS3s to 360s was much smaller in January than in December.
(Please do not gift. My game bank is already full.)
Yeah, a good game is a good game. Though I hate how many handheld games are just portable versions of console games. In those cases, I will always play it on a console. I bought a PSP, but after trying every game I found interesting, I ran out of fun after a month, and sold it. I still cling to my DS, even though I don't play it very often, because once in a blue moon, it gets a real gem that I must play.
Also, all these flow charts fail. Especially the first one. Like Video Games? No. Buy a console? That's PC elitism at its worst.
Only good flow chart I could find (though, not G&T related)
That is like saying watching a movie pan and scan on 13" tv is as good as seeing it at a state of the art theater. It just isn't the same. It is not like I haven't given it a try. I have about 30 DS games still sitting on my shelf. I played them all. It just isn't as fun for me. I am happy for the people who enjoy it, just like I am happy for people who love their Wii. It just isn't for me.
Platinum FC: 2880 3245 5111
This might be it. Nintendo is teaching quite a lesson that the 'graphical arms race' is completely unnecessary. I will lay money on the prediction that the next gen is a much smaller technological leap.
Right, and I'm saying that any of these other games can have the same impact as Gears and BioShock did if they have proper hype and marketing behind them.
Well I wasn't saying that software sales of the two consoles is indicative that most casual gamers have made their choice; I agree that most of these people in question are still playing Madden on their PS2s.
But what evidence we do have about those that are and have been making the shift to the current generation, the far greater momentum has been in the 360's favor.
It is not completely conclusive evidence, but it is evidence that goes at least somewhat beyond just personal, generalized, circumstantial evidence. The reason I say that is because another person can come along with personal circumstantial evidence to the effect of, "I'm the tech guru in my group of adults, and the 360 seems to be the big favorite," and that personal opinion would have equal weight to the opinion that you've posted.
Again, it's all good. I'm just saying that I think it's interesting how the market is treating EA's stuff right now. Its software sales are not correlating exactly with installed bases; the EA software sales are disproportionately favoring the 360 right now - even after you adjust for greater installed base.
Steam ID: slashx000______Twitter: @bill_at_zeboyd______ Facebook: Zeboyd Games
This is true. Last night were late night ramblings and I took great pains to make it clear the thoughts I typed out were solely opinion based on generalized feelings and my experience with friends as well as observations in stores.
It is true that momentum favours the 360 right now, although I would argue that this is based in a large part on the 1 year advantage it has on the PS3.
It will be interesting to see where things stand in January 2009. I'm guessing the 360 will still have a fairly sizable lead (install base wise) over the PS3, however I do think that lead will be smaller than it is today.
Steam ID: slashx000______Twitter: @bill_at_zeboyd______ Facebook: Zeboyd Games
Oh shi, that's hilarious!
Um, isn't the lead getting bigger? At least in the US that's the case; the XBox 360 continues to outsell the PS3 on a month to month basis.
Zeboyd Games Development Blog
Steam ID : rwb36, Twitter : Werezompire, Facebook : Zeboyd Games
Well, it's hard to tell with the European numbers being so highly questionable.
In the USA, the lead just keeps getting bigger, bigger, bigger.
And in Japan, the PS3 helps a bit to balance that out.
EU is doing great numbers for the PS3, but solid numbers are hard to come by.
It really is a question of whether the EU+Japan can outweigh the increasingly widening gap of sales and sales rates within the US, which is the the most enormous market.
Steam ID: slashx000______Twitter: @bill_at_zeboyd______ Facebook: Zeboyd Games
If you look at Xbox and the PS3 you have a bit of an issue. First if you look at the Xbox, it has been out for a while, and has a huge library, established user base and a well developed on-line community. The PS3 has just come into its own. It looks to me that the Xbox 360 is going to wind down readying itself for the Xbox 1080? or what ever. While the PS3 just started. Also the fact that the PS3 is a Blueray player with many addons for the same price as just blue ray players can not hurt the deal. But when it comes down to video games. The xbox is just going to stay in front, until it dies, or a new console is announced.
Sadly threads like this seem to get started by those who spend money on a PS3 and feel like they need to justify it. It will happen, just give it time, if you like to play it play, otherwise who cares?
*gets off soap box*
But Bioshock didn't have an significant impact on sales as far as I can tell (Not in the vien of Gears or Halo), and Gears was set up from the get go as a system seller. It didn't get turned into a system seller, it was planned to the first huge game to fill a specific niche (since they wouldn't have Halo until the next year). None of these other titles have been set up like that.
Um, what?
That's not gonna happen. The 360 is gonna be around for awhile. another 3 years at least I'd say. Almost certainly more. 4-5 I'm betting.
No doubt. The 360 and PS3 are just now reaching towards the kind or price that consoles should really launch at. Until someone can make a console that is a significant upgrade for at the very most $400 what would be the point in a new generation?
As it is, not enough people seem to care about HD gaming yet and it seems unlikely that whatever comes next will be such a clear, marketable upgrade.
Of course someone at MS, Sony or Nintendo might come up with the next waggle and convince the suites to go with it but that doesn't seem likely.
(Please do not gift. My game bank is already full.)
I think that MS would be well served to keep this generation going as long as possible.
If this gen has taught us anything, it's that the current rankings mean absolutely nothing in predicting the hierarchy of what's coming next. This gen, it's a complete inversion.
So, considering that MS is sitting pretty well, and will maybe make some sort of profit in the sort of seeable future, they have no reason to take a gamble again on another console, until they're forced too.
Nintendo certainly has no reason to change anything. They're printing money as fast as they can build the consoles. And Sony is not in a position to, either -- they're console is only 1 year old, is still aces technologically, and is still probably a pawn in their war to finish the hi-def media fight.
4-5 years seems likely. It would give Nintendo and Sony the standard 5 year cycle, and I'm sure MS is happy to get an extra year of viability for their console.
Q2 of this year, which goes from the start of April to the end of June.
And we have no clue how much they need to sell to break even. A journalist reported that they had to sell a million on day one but Ryan Payton later said on his podcast that the journalist fed those words into his mouth. Ryan has said a few times that he has no clue how much they have to sell.
Meh whatever. I don't think Konami has much to fear about MGS4 selling well. I'll leave Unco to fill us in on anything else related to that though.
Steam ID: slashx000______Twitter: @bill_at_zeboyd______ Facebook: Zeboyd Games
I think the main worry would be that GTA4 is scheduled to come out on April 29th which is right in the middle of the 3 month period that MGS4 is scheduled to come out. Wasn't there a lot of talk back when MGS3 was released that its relatively disappointing sales may have been due to GTA?
Zeboyd Games Development Blog
Steam ID : rwb36, Twitter : Werezompire, Facebook : Zeboyd Games
Not just due to GTA, but to the typical onslaught of holiday releases around that time.
Steam ID: slashx000______Twitter: @bill_at_zeboyd______ Facebook: Zeboyd Games
Yeah, on other systems there was Halo 2 and Half-Life 2, among others.
And WoW.
That was a devastating Christmas for people's wallets