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[WoW] Battleground Bollocks

hyperpowerhyperpower Registered User regular
edited April 2008 in MMO Extravaganza
Hello all, searched for an appropriate thread but couldn't find one. I am posting on behalf of my better half because she is angry and scares me.

Yesterday she spent a lot of time in battlegrounds, earnt 1600+ estimated honour and subsequently walked away with 57 honour. She won one battleground and had 300 kills. She subsequently e-mailed Blizzard about the problem who told her honour calculations were correct. 300 kills were added to her total.

Anyone else here had this kind of issue. As she so elegantly put it "If my calculations were like that at work I would be fired"

hyperpower on
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Posts

  • ArrathArrath Registered User regular
    edited January 2008
    Honor kills are on diminishing returns. Past I think 10 of the player, bam you get squat, the honor UI, or any values presented to you in game, including estimated honor, do not account for the DR. Kills are worth crap for honor before DR anyway, accomplishing BG objectives is where its at.

    Also this probably would've been suited to the chat thread.

    Arrath on
  • KezzerdrixxKezzerdrixx Registered User regular
    edited January 2008
    There's currently a bug where you get your PVP daily honour added to your estimated total every time you change zone, which causes inflated estimates.

    Kezzerdrixx on
  • hyperpowerhyperpower Registered User regular
    edited January 2008
    Ok thanks.
    Sorry if this is in the wrong spot.. noted for next time.

    hyperpower on
  • CharusCharus Registered User regular
    edited January 2008
    Well, assuming you completed the PvP daily or won a battleground, you should walk away with more than 57 honor (and unless all 300 of those HKs are coming off of like two players, even the HK honor should be higher than that). If you got that honor close to when it updates (which is 2 AM pacific time), you might not get it credited to you until the next day.

    Charus on
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • goodtimesgoodtimes Registered User regular
    edited January 2008
    Arrath wrote: »
    Honor kills are on diminishing returns. Past I think 10 of the player, bam you get squat, the honor UI, or any values presented to you in game, including estimated honor, do not account for the DR. Kills are worth crap for honor before DR anyway, accomplishing BG objectives is where its at.

    Also this probably would've been suited to the chat thread.

    Maybe not thread-worthy for just this one issue but how awesome would it be to have a separate PVP thread?

    There are some leaks in the system which leads me to believe that there is some shady mechanics involved in the calculation beyond just the diminishing returns.

    For instance I can use an addon like Titan bar honor which will calculate a running tally from my combat log and include diminishing returns in that total along with bonus honor from the holiday battleground etc , come up with a different estimated honor from what is depicted in the PVP tab , then come daily honor reset, be awarded a different number altogether.

    and wtf is with the daily honor reset time being variable and somtimes dependant on logging out and logging back on to be awarded honor points. variability in the system leads me to imagine some person involved . who is this guy at 2-3 in the morning ? I picture some janitor whistling pushing along his mop bucket flipping a big red switch before he clocks out for the night , I dunno,.

    Doesn't usually become an issue because I use the estimated honor shown on my titan bar to get a rough Idea of where I am at for the day and then try and overshoot that by 1k for whatever personal goal I have set for myself that day. Usually I get about 1k more than that awarded .

    However 57 honor being awarded for even just one win in a battle ground is just flat out wrong, someone forgot somewhere to convert metric to newtons again.

    and your spouse makes me a little scared for myself because "alot of time in battlegrounds"
    for me is like a 10k honor day.

    Just a lil scary to compare what is a casual vs. serious thing when compared to other peoples ideas of the same.

    goodtimes on
    new sig underconstruction
  • PoketpixiePoketpixie Siege Registered User regular
    edited January 2008
    A couple weeks back I got like 9k+ honor. I log in the next to find out they deducted 3k honor off that. wtf ya know?

    The only thing I can figure is that there was this one longish game of AV where both sides turtled until one ran out of reinforcements so maybe I got hit with diminishing returns from that one but still .....3k worth from just one match?! There's something screwy going on there.

    Poketpixie on
  • WavechaserWavechaser Registered User regular
    edited January 2008
    If you are getting anywhere near 3k honor from a single match, you sure as shit better expect some massive diminishing returns on your estimated honor. Most BG's won't net you more than 500 during a regular game, 3k is ridiculous for a single match, and means the game was going on way too long and you got way too many kills on DR.

    Wavechaser on
  • EchoEcho ski-bap ba-dapModerator mod
    edited January 2008
    The honor from actual kills is shit compared to the bonus honor anyway.

    I've been in losing AVs where I walked away with 400+ bonus honor for keeping all the horde towers up, destroying all alliance bunkers, but the alliance won the game. So in those games the losing side got more honor than the winning side. :P

    Echo on
  • PoketpixiePoketpixie Siege Registered User regular
    edited January 2008
    I never said I got 3k from one match...maybe 600ish at most the one time we capped everything and lost nothing. But losing 3k after the honor update seemed a bit much. That was a third of all the honor I gained the previous day and I didn't kill *that* many people even with the one longish AV match.

    Poketpixie on
  • Eat it You Nasty Pig.Eat it You Nasty Pig. tell homeland security 'we are the bomb'Registered User regular
    edited January 2008
    There are two issues that confuse people with honor currently: dimishing returns on HKs, and honor "lost" during the honor calculation every night.

    Diminishing returns are simple enough and have already been explained; you may lose some estimated honor because of this, but most of the time it's so little you hardly notice.

    People also "lose" honor during the honor rollover. Basically, sometime between midnight and 1 AM PST, the server starts deciding how much honor people got that day. It usually finishes the calculation sometime between 1 and 2 AM and updates your honor tab (resulting in noticeable server lag if you happen to be online at that time.) People who've been fighting in BGs between midnight and the honor rollover don't see honor accrued during that time counted toward their daily total; it winds up not being shown on that day's honor or on the next's. You didn't lose it, and it will magically show up after the rollover 24 hours later, but at first it will appear that you "lost" that honor.

    Eat it You Nasty Pig. on
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    it was the smallest on the list but
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  • WavechaserWavechaser Registered User regular
    edited January 2008
    Poketpixie wrote: »
    but still .....3k worth from just one match?! There's something screwy going on there.

    The above quote is what lead me to believe you were referring to a single match.

    Wavechaser on
  • PoketpixiePoketpixie Siege Registered User regular
    edited January 2008
    Wavechaser wrote: »
    Poketpixie wrote: »
    but still .....3k worth from just one match?! There's something screwy going on there.

    The above quote is what lead me to believe you were referring to a single match.

    Ya sorry...meant losing 3k worth because of the one match :|

    Poketpixie on
  • EchoEcho ski-bap ba-dapModerator mod
    edited January 2008
    A while back we had a bug on all EU realms where people didn't get any arena points during the calculation. Much whining and hotfixing later and they got them, but then everyone had tons of missing honor instead. They appeared eventually, after three days without any honor calculations whatsoever.

    Echo on
  • KainyKainy Pimpin' and righteous Registered User regular
    edited January 2008
    Well, if this is now a BG thread...

    What strategies do you folks use in EotS? In my battlegroup we've nicknamed it Eye of the Horde Loses.

    I know that the two main winning strategies are 2 bases + flags or 3 bases + ignore flag, at least those have been what I've seen. It's just that even with communication we seem to lose a lot. Am I missing something terrible?

    Kainy on
    IcyLiquid wrote: »
    There's anti-fuckery code in there now :) Sorry :)
  • WavechaserWavechaser Registered User regular
    edited January 2008
    3 bases, ignore the flag, once you repel two or three attempts to get a base back, they are usually demoralized enough to start going for the flag, or if you are doing really well, taking all 4 bases. It's a lot easier to hold 3 bases and just flag run than grab all four bases though.

    Wavechaser on
  • LednehLedneh shinesquawk Registered User regular
    edited January 2008
    As I understand it, if you are online at the time the honor calculations for the day are made (I think it's midnight to 2 am server), the majority of the calculations are delayed until the next day, though the UI will now say an estimated zero honor.

    Yes, it's stupid.

    Ledneh on
  • TransporterTransporter Registered User regular
    edited January 2008
    Wavechaser wrote: »
    3 bases, ignore the flag, once you repel two or three attempts to get a base back, they are usually demoralized enough to start going for the flag, or if you are doing really well, taking all 4 bases. It's a lot easier to hold 3 bases and just flag run than grab all four bases though.

    If you are running a premade Horde side.

    1 group of 5 splits up and takes Belf and Fel Reaver.

    Send a balanced group 2(5 people) to DR.

    Send a balanced group 3(5 people) to Mage tower.

    In the ensuing chaos(Puggers will panic and try to defend instead of running the flag, since there is no base to return it to), group one starts running the flag.

    Commence 4 cap. Camp the spawn, win game.

    Transporter on
  • ArandmoorArandmoor Registered User regular
    edited January 2008
    EotS...

    My prefered strat (the one the group I premade with uses) is to hold-2 and rove.

    The 2 tower groups are simple D forces that don't leave their towers. If one of their towers is taken they fight to retake.

    The Roving group runs around and makes life hard for the Horde. Their goals are to be where the horde isn't, and deny the Horde whatever it is they want.

    If the Horde are capping flags they figure out which horde tower is undefended and take it.
    If the Horde attack one of our towers they make sure the bastards don't get it.
    If the Horde leave the flag alone for even a moment, they cap it.

    The purpose of the roving group is to make sure that at any one time we either have 3 towers, or are capping the flag with 2 towers. What they endevor to not do is fight over something for a lengthy period of time.

    Fighting over the flag while you hold 2 towers is a good way to lose EotS, regardless of which side you're on.

    Arandmoor on
  • rizriz Registered User regular
    edited January 2008
    I don't understand why Blizzard seems to think "oh your estimated honor displayed doesn't take DR into account LOL" is a good enough answer to that problem. Why can stuff like HonorFu track diminishing returns as you go but the basic game UI can't? Yet it can apparently track your DR internally well enough to give an "accurate" honor total at the end of the day? It's bullshit, they need to fix it or don't give people the illusion of an estimated honor total that is so inaccurate.

    riz on
  • Peeps ChickenPeeps Chicken Registered User regular
    edited January 2008
    Horde has turned RETARDED on my BG. Maybe it was just AV weekend. I don't know. But over 4 days of nearly constant play, I lost count of how many times people would just lose their minds.

    For example, in AV, we would just completely forget to cap a bunker. The entire Horde rode right past SH bunker multiple times. When we did cap, absolutely nobody would stay to guard, or one person would stay (usually me) with nobody responding when that person called for help.

    In AB, we would be losing but manage to recap up to three nodes in time for us to get the win. Instead of guarding those nodes, 6-8 people would then try to separately, unsuccessfully zerg the remaining nodes, leaving some of our captured nodes defenseless. So of course they'd be recapped and we'd lose. Or we'd have a couple of retards up in the Alliance's starting point, ganking the rare person who joins the BG.

    I posted this in the other thread, but we also had several obvious botters. Their bots would randomly say things, I guess to make people believe they weren't afk. So you occasionally get a "How's the D holding up?" (when the person is sitting in Frostwolf Keep) or "Get in on Van!" (right at the start of the game) or "Incoming SH bunker!" (when the bunker had already burned). In keeping with my retards theme, nobody would report the bot. Even once you pointed out they were botting and had full zeroes across the board, it stayed active the whole game and got full honor for doing nothing. Why not bot if that's going to happen?

    Peeps Chicken on
  • PierceNeckPierceNeck Registered User regular
    edited January 2008
    1) I hate estimated honor. Why can't they just show your actual honor?

    2) I hate PuG battlegrounds. But want the PvP gear.

    3) Does hit rating matter at all in PvP? Or when socketing, should I concentrate on crit/agility/stam?

    PierceNeck on
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  • WavechaserWavechaser Registered User regular
    edited January 2008
    A little tip for BG's as well, I'm at work so I don't have the script off the top of my head, but Saeris made me one that turns off BG chat. I no longer have to listen to the incessent verbal vomit that I am so tired of seeing in AV.

    Wavechaser on
  • LineNoizLineNoiz Registered User regular
    edited January 2008
    Is it too much to ask that premades be forced to fight against premades, and pugs fight pugs?

    Cuz that would just make my day.

    I love queuing up AB, joining only find the ally premade has already 5-capped and stormed the GY and I'm dead before the character models finish loading. That's my favorite thing ever.

    LineNoiz on
  • LineNoizLineNoiz Registered User regular
    edited January 2008
    Wavechaser wrote: »
    A little tip for BG's as well, I'm at work so I don't have the script off the top of my head, but Saeris made me one that turns off BG chat. I no longer have to listen to the incessent verbal vomit that I am so tired of seeing in AV.
    I have mixed feelings about that. On the one hand, the shit people start talking when they lose is holy fuck. Lose with some goddamned dignity, you fuck! On the other hand, without the INC 7 BS SEND ZERG, I think I would lose every damn time.

    LineNoiz on
  • LednehLedneh shinesquawk Registered User regular
    edited January 2008
    The problem with strategy in places like EotS is that, as far as I can tell, even if you win pretty consistently, if you're stuck on defense duty and no one's showing up (because you're there; rest assured, if you left, they'd be emboldened to take the point) then you're getting jack for honor*. ESPECIALLY if your side loses anyway.

    Better to get into the mix, lose a few, and collect your honor.

    Fucking honor.


    (not bitter)




    [edit: extremely bitter]

    *yes, I'm aware of the bonuses; in my experience unless you're TOTALLY DR'd out for the day it doesn't make up for it

    Ledneh on
  • WavechaserWavechaser Registered User regular
    edited January 2008
    I just use it in AV.

    Wavechaser on
  • LineNoizLineNoiz Registered User regular
    edited January 2008
    Wavechaser wrote: »
    I just use it in AV.
    I usually just /ignore anyone who starts throwing a temper tantrum. Four or five of those and the rest is usually useful.

    LineNoiz on
  • cncaudatacncaudata Registered User regular
    edited January 2008
    Noob question: How do I find out, for instance, if it is AV weekend? Is that a real thing? It seems that the super general dudes will give me a quest sometimes for a specific battleground, but not always. I'm guessing that's because I'm not actually high enough level to participate in the one that's active that day, but is there any other way for me to find out?

    cncaudata on
    PSN: Broodax- battle.net: broodax#1163
  • dylmandylman Registered User regular
    edited January 2008
    PierceNeck wrote: »

    3) Does hit rating matter at all in PvP? Or when socketing, should I concentrate on crit/agility/stam?

    My rogue has 60 hit rating in her PvP gear and misses something like 15% of her white hits in PvP. I have 2 +8 hit gems and wish I could fit some more in somewhere.

    It annoys me no end that the corresponding S1 gear for warriors comes with 24 hit rating while rogues get bugger all.

    /rant

    dylman on
  • PierceNeckPierceNeck Registered User regular
    edited January 2008
    See, I wasn't sure if +hit only applied to things of higher level or not. So then, what would be the hit cap for PvP?

    Edit:: Or is there no real hitcap due to avoidance talents/etc?

    PierceNeck on
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  • LineNoizLineNoiz Registered User regular
    edited January 2008
    cncaudata wrote: »
    Noob question: How do I find out, for instance, if it is AV weekend? Is that a real thing? It seems that the super general dudes will give me a quest sometimes for a specific battleground, but not always. I'm guessing that's because I'm not actually high enough level to participate in the one that's active that day, but is there any other way for me to find out?
    The general hands out a quest everyday for a (I think) randomly chosen BG. If you aren't high enough for that BG, then you wouldn't be able to take the quest.

    Every weekend, there will be "representatives" from the BG who's weekend it is wandering around the capitol cities. For example, in Orgrimmar, they hang out by the bank, on top of the flight master deck, and over by the battlemasters. In Undercity, they hang out by the elevators. I don't know where they would be on ally side.

    Anyway, you see them, it's their weekend.

    LineNoiz on
  • LineNoizLineNoiz Registered User regular
    edited January 2008
    PierceNeck wrote: »
    See, I wasn't sure if +hit only applied to things of higher level or not. So then, what would be the hit cap for PvP?

    Edit:: Or is there no real hitcap due to avoidance talents/etc?
    Avoidance talents reflect dodge/parry, which can be mitigated by Expertise. The Expertise cap, I believe, is variable due to people having a variable amount of +dodge and +parry.

    Hit just affects your chance to miss. Every character has a 5% chance to miss, and go ahead and add an additional 20% chance to miss if you dual wield. Hit cap would be whatever gets you a +25% chance to hit. That would be for anything your level, be it a PC or NPC.

    LineNoiz on
  • EriEri Registered User regular
    edited January 2008
    cncaudata wrote: »
    Noob question: How do I find out, for instance, if it is AV weekend? Is that a real thing? It seems that the super general dudes will give me a quest sometimes for a specific battleground, but not always. I'm guessing that's because I'm not actually high enough level to participate in the one that's active that day, but is there any other way for me to find out?



    The "super general dude" will give a quest to win in a specific battleground for about 419 additional honor (and coin or xp, depending on if you're at max level or not).

    For weekends, you'll usually see the appropriate npc's walking around or standing in the same spots during the corresponding weekend.
    For alliance: Nelf NPCs usually indicate WSG, Human = AB, AV = Dwarves, Draenae=EotS.
    These NPCs can usually be found standing right next to the bg daily general in Shat, or near by the banks in IF/SW. I'm sure they are standing around in Darn, but who goes there, really?

    For horde: check shat and capital cities.

    Edit: beated, but at least had some ally info.

    Eri on
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  • dylmandylman Registered User regular
    edited January 2008
    PierceNeck wrote: »
    See, I wasn't sure if +hit only applied to things of higher level or not. So then, what would be the hit cap for PvP?

    Edit:: Or is there no real hitcap due to avoidance talents/etc?

    Specials like Hemo never seem to miss for me with 60 hit rating. But on the other hand I just did a quick EotS with some old gear to boost my hit up to 113 and I still had 12.5% miss on my white hits... :(


    edit: Hmm, 25% base miss rate while dual wielding, -5% from Precision, -7.17% from 113 hit = 12.83% chance to miss against lvl 70, my quick blast in EotS was right on the money it seems.

    dylman on
  • cncaudatacncaudata Registered User regular
    edited January 2008
    Hey, thanks for the info. I'll have to look for the special weekend guys now.

    cncaudata on
    PSN: Broodax- battle.net: broodax#1163
  • LineNoizLineNoiz Registered User regular
    edited January 2008
    dylman wrote: »
    PierceNeck wrote: »
    See, I wasn't sure if +hit only applied to things of higher level or not. So then, what would be the hit cap for PvP?

    Edit:: Or is there no real hitcap due to avoidance talents/etc?

    Specials like Hemo never seem to miss for me with 60 hit rating. But on the other hand I just did a quick EotS with some old gear to boost my hit up to 113 and I still had 12.5% miss on my white hits... :(


    edit: Hmm, 25% base miss rate while dual wielding, -5% from Precision, -7.17% from 113 hit = 12.83% chance to miss against lvl 70, my quick blast in EotS was right on the money it seems.
    Specials have a much higher chance to hit. I *think* they aren't affected by the dual wield penalty, and that may be the reason for it.

    LineNoiz on
  • PierceNeckPierceNeck Registered User regular
    edited January 2008
    In PvP, most of your damage comes from specials, right? Since the fights generally wont be long enough to let the white hits really add up. Or am I wrong on that?

    Assuming I'm right, what would be the hit cap to make sure your specials never miss a lvl70 opponent? Like, around 100 or so?

    PierceNeck on
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  • dylmandylman Registered User regular
    edited January 2008
    In that EotS I just did, I had 25724 white damage in total, vs 16736 from Hemo. This is in line with what i normally see, PvE or PvP (I've never raided on this rogue however).

    edit: @ LineNoiz: that would probably explain it. :)

    dylman on
  • formatformat Registered User regular
    edited January 2008
    LineNoiz wrote: »
    Specials have a much higher chance to hit. I *think* they aren't affected by the dual wield penalty, and that may be the reason for it.

    Speaking from a fury warrior perspective, you would be correct. If all you care about is specials connecting, you need a lot less +hit( i think the pve accepted rating is 90?) while if you want to build rage you need a lot more(between 200 and 365)

    format on
    You don't know if I am joking or not.
  • PierceNeckPierceNeck Registered User regular
    edited January 2008
    dylman wrote: »
    In that EotS I just did, I had 25724 white damage in total, vs 16736 from Hemo. This is in line with what i normally see, PvE or PvP (I've never raided on this rogue however).
    I was thinking more in an arena setting where matches usually only last a few minutes at most. (aside from those silly attrition battles I hear of) The reason I'm wondering, mostly, is because if burst DPS is important for quick kills, like burning down a healer before they have real chance to respond. I would think stacking crit would be of more benefit than stacking hit, as long as you reached the cap for your specials. BG's are long drawn out things where I can see the white hits really coming into play as far as total damage. But even then, I would think burning down your target as fast is possible would still mostly be put on your specials. But I'm still learning to play my class, so please correct me if I'm being dumb.

    PierceNeck on
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