Advice on building a new computer

oddment

Okay, so my computer is nearly 5 years old and has died. I've had to steal my partners computer while he's been away, but now that is starting to fail on me (plus he's back soon, so he may want it back, even if it is knackered). I've been looking for a computer under £350 and decided the best way to get the most from my money is to build one myself. I have a friend who can help me put it all together, but I thought I'd ask you guys if these parts are all I need, and if they'll all work together (I already have a dvd writer which is fairly new and good - needed a lightscribe for my media work you see - so don't need one of them). Also, what sort of games would I be able to run well on it? The most advanced game I have is STALKER, and I haven't been able to play it yet due to the fact my current PC is poo. So please tell me what you think of the below! If you can make any suggestions on items that could be changed for better and cheaper ones, go right on ahead. I'm wanting to try and buy everything from Scan if at all possible though, as it's local and convenient to get everything all from the same place. Thanks H/A!

Deviant Hands

Go with intel not AMD. Just 50 more bucks.

oddment

Deviant Hands wrote: »

Go with intel not AMD. Just 50 more bucks.

That would boost the price above £350, and that is my limit unfortunatley. Plus, AMD has always served me well in the past... is there that much of a difference between them, or is it just personal preference?

Sir Red of the Manti

oddment wrote: »

Deviant Hands wrote: »

Go with intel not AMD. Just 50 more bucks.

That would boost the price above £350, and that is my limit unfortunatley. Plus, AMD has always served me well in the past... is there that much of a difference between them, or is it just personal preference?

Historically, the best balance of price vs performance has been with AMD, while Intel has high end offerings that beat AMD speeds at prices that follow the pattern of diminishing returns. I'm not sure what's going on with them now adays, but the best advice I can give is to do a little research on processor/motherboard configurations that meet your price range and see which set comes out on top.

Scrublet

Sir Red of the Manti wrote: »

oddment wrote: »

Deviant Hands wrote: »

Go with intel not AMD. Just 50 more bucks.

That would boost the price above £350, and that is my limit unfortunatley. Plus, AMD has always served me well in the past... is there that much of a difference between them, or is it just personal preference?

Historically, the best balance of price vs performance has been with AMD, while Intel has high end offerings that beat AMD speeds at prices that follow the pattern of diminishing returns. I'm not sure what's going on with them now adays, but the best advice I can give is to do a little research on processor/motherboard configurations that meet your price range and see which set comes out on top.

Historically, yes. Presently, no. The AMD stuff is getting destroyed. Even the lower end core 2 duos are going to beat out that AMD chip you have listed right there. If at all possible try to stick with intel right now, and go with AMD only if there is no way to make the cost work.

oddment

Yeah, the Intel processors are double the price of the AMD's - not really affordable to me at the moment basically. My only real requirements for this computer is that it runs general programs like IE, MSN, Skype, iTunes, etc at a fair speed, allows me to stream well from the net (and I know this is about my net connection mostly, but I'm sure having a pants computer doesn't help much), and also will play STALKER (my most graphically advanced PC game) on decent settings without much noticeable slowdown. With this in mind, will the parts I have picked out do all that, and more importantly, if I put all those parts together, will they work, or will it all blow up in my face?

Just to say aswell, that I am used to a very archaic system at the moment. I think the specs are something like 512MB RAM, Radeon 9100 graphics card, AMD Athlon processor that ran at 1.4ghz or thereabouts... so as you can see, I am in need of a change, and it won't take a majorly powerful computer for me to notice a difference.

The case that I want has a fan and the PSU built in, as well as a digital readout for temp and all that stuff. Seems good to me... is that all I need out of the case? Will the fan be enough to keep it cool and not blow up (if the parts themselves don't do that anyway due to horrid mismatch)?

prawnstar69

I just built a machine based on a AMD 64 X2 5000+ and a ATi HD3850 512mb due to budget limitations.

I would've liked to get a Core 2 Duo and a 8800gt but that would've added over £100 to the overall price. I have to say though, I'm thoroughly happy with my purchase. The Core 2 Duo's might be better but that doesn't make the AMDs particularly bad.

vonPoonBurGer

prawnstar69 wrote: »

The Core 2 Duo's might be better but that doesn't make the AMDs particularly bad.

This. While I recommend a Core 2 Duo if it's at all possible, if it's not in the budget, it's just not in the budget. Regardless of how much better a Core 2 Duo would perform (and we're talking about a 20% different at the utmost in all likelihood), either one is going to represent a massive leap in performance over your old system.

Rook

If you're at all using this for gaming, I'd spend the extra £40 and go for an ATI3850. The difference from going from an AMD CPU to an Intel CPU will be something you just won't notice, especially when gamin (e.g. In stalker, there is 1 FPS improvement from going 1280x1024 on an AMD X2 3800+ to an Intel QX6700). Going from a 2600Pro to a 3850 will be like be Night and Day though.

prawnstar69

Oh, is that a black edition CPU?

If it is, they don't come with a heatsink or a fan. Even retail ones. I could be wrong though, but double check.

oddment

prawnstar69 wrote: »

Oh, is that a black edition CPU?

If it is, they don't come with a heatsink or a fan. Even retail ones. I could be wrong though, but double check.

Nah, the black edition is more expensive, and as you say, no heatsink or fan. So the one in the pic is the one I thought would go best.

Am I going to have problems putting all those components together, or should it all run just fine?

As for spending another £40, I wish I could! However, £350 is the top of my budget, and thats stretching it a bit. £40 may seem like nothing, but at the moment its £40 I just don't have (or is better spent on living costs).

prawnstar69

It all looks fine to me, I'm assuming you're recycling your old disc drive etc.

I've never used Abit motherboards though, so I can't vouch for them. I've always used Gigabyte motherboards.

imperial6

I'll second Rook's suggestion that even for light gaming you try to get the hd 3850. Not only will it be much better now, but it will last you a lot longer between upgrades. On a side note, I find it hilarious that every time there's one of these people come in immediately beating the intel drum (I'm surprised no one has suggested an 8800gt yet). An e2180 isn't going to outperform a 5000+, sorry. An e4500, which costs more, isn't going to outperform it such that a normal user would notice the difference. AMD is still the best budget option (despite the flop of phenom) for most users.

prawnstar69

imperial6 wrote: »

I'll second Rook's suggestion that even for light gaming you try to get the hd 3850. Not only will it be much better now, but it will last you a lot longer between upgrades. On a side note, I find it hilarious that every time there's one of these people come in immediately beating the intel drum (I'm surprised no one has suggested an 8800gt yet). An e2180 isn't going to outperform a 5000+, sorry. An e4500, which costs more, isn't going to outperform it such that a normal user would notice the difference. AMD is still the best budget option (despite the flop of phenom) for most users.

I'll third that actually. My HD3850 is great, I can run Call of Duty 4 max detail at 1280x1024 with extremely playable framerates. I play multiplayer at 1024x768, max detail, however because everything's more frantic and the extra fps helps.

Rook

oddment wrote: »

prawnstar69 wrote: »

Oh, is that a black edition CPU?

If it is, they don't come with a heatsink or a fan. Even retail ones. I could be wrong though, but double check.

Nah, the black edition is more expensive, and as you say, no heatsink or fan. So the one in the pic is the one I thought would go best.

Am I going to have problems putting all those components together, or should it all run just fine?

As for spending another £40, I wish I could! However, £350 is the top of my budget, and thats stretching it a bit. £40 may seem like nothing, but at the moment its £40 I just don't have (or is better spent on living costs).

It's obviously time to sell yourself.

Or, You can get free delivery with scan if you're a member of a couple of forums, Hexus and AVForums, and Bit-Tech.
That's £10 at least.





You could probably cut off

Deviant Hands

Look, there are things you can easily cut out from your budget. Your final price was 333, that means you got 17 bucks, try to get a cheaper case with a smaller power supply and get a smaller harddrive (you don't really need 400 gb from what you have listed as what you are going to use the computer for) You are so close that you could make this work if you shop around really hard.

But whatever, if it doesn't fit the budget it doesn't fit the budget.

oddment

*Gulp* That HD3850 is about twice as much as the graphics card I was looking at. Cheapest one is around £120. I'll have a look at what I can cut down on, but dear lord, if I got that graphics card, it would pretty much be half my budget gone. I'll have a look and fiddle about with the configuration I have there, see if I can make any savings anywhere as you suggest Deviant Hands.

oddment

Okay, so if I were to spend another £30 or £40 (if it's at all possible...) then here is the setup I've come up with. Better graphics card, better processor, found cheaper RAM and looked at a HD with less capacity. How does this look? Will that all work together? Going to have a look at cutting back again, see if I can get another, cheaper option.

prawnstar69

It looks good, but you can probably stay in budget if you go for a 5000+ instead of a 6000.

A 6000 is nice, but I game with a 5000 and have no problem with it.

oddment

prawnstar69 wrote: »

It looks good, but you can probably stay in budget if you go for a 5000+ instead of a 6000.

A 6000 is nice, but I game with a 5000 and have no problem with it.

All the ones that bring me within budget are not in stock, and the site doesn't actually say when they may be getting them back in stock. Stoopid site. I could look for another care elsewhere I guess, but then I'd be adding extra delivery costs on. Still having a look at other options aswell. With the set-up I've just posted, would STALKER run pretty damn well? In fact, would I be able to play anything more advanced than that, graphically? If I manage to get a good computer together, I may start to look more seriously at PC gaming, as over the years there have been many games I've been interested in playing, but never could because my computer is terrible. The Witcher is one example. Even Doom 3 (though I've played most of that on the Xbox now)!

prawnstar69

I just put together this machine, so you can compare...

Athlon 64 X2 5000+
2 x 1gb Patriot PC6400 RAM (4-4-4-12)
ATi HD3850 512mb
320gb Hitachi Deskstar 16MB buffer 7,200rpm SATA2 HDD
500w Seasonic S12 II PSU
Vista Home Premium 64-bit

I can play Stalker just fine on high settings at 1280x1024.
Same with Call of Duty 4 @ 1280x1024.

The only other games I've really played on it so far are Command & Conquer 3 (max settings 1280x1024)
Civilization 4 (same, max, 1280)
World of Warcraft (max, 1280)

Stalker is a bit buggy though, make sure you're all patched up etc.

I usually buy my stuff from www.aria.co.uk you could check them out their prices usually are pretty good. But delivery would be about £5-10 (weight dependant).

edit - I just went to Aria and priced up the barebones of the system I bought (minus DVD-RW, Vista, I bought a new keyboard mouse etc)



That price is without a case / powersupply though.

oddment

Okay, I took a look at that site... here is what I came up with, case and all. Also, there were some special offers on some of those products you showed (superspecial offers?)... you know the deal with that? Can I just go ahead and apply the superspecial discount without the need to do anything else?

But in total, brings me in at less than £350, and has everything I need. Looks good to me!

prawnstar69

That Ferrari case (or so it says) is micro-ATX where as the motherboard is a full ATX.

The Gigabyte GA-MA69GM-S2H AMD 690G Socket AM2 Motherboard is micro-ATX so it would fit or you could choose a full ATX case.

I went with this case and a Seasonic PSU (excellent brand)

Zen Case

Seasonic 500w S12 II PSU

The total inc VAT for those 2 is £70... (which, if you took off that ferrari case, would make the total cost about £360)

The Zen does come with a 400w but it's rubbish (I have it in my old PC case under my bed).

Just an option really, you could either go for the micro-ATX motherboard and still be below budget.
Or for a little more go for the ATX motherboard, a quality PSU and a ATX case.

(ATX cases are pretty big, or at least this Zen is. Micro-ATX cases are a bit smaller)

Finally, superspecials are deals they do for a certain number of days / number of units.

oddment

prawnstar69 wrote: »

That Ferrari case (or so it says) is micro-ATX where as the motherboard is a full ATX.

The Gigabyte GA-MA69GM-S2H AMD 690G Socket AM2 Motherboard is micro-ATX so it would fit or you could choose a full ATX case.

I went with this case and a Seasonic PSU (excellent brand)

Zen Case

Seasonic 500w S12 II PSU

The total inc VAT for those 2 is £70... (which, if you took off that ferrari case, would make the total cost about £360)

The Zen does come with a 400w but it's rubbish (I have it in my old PC case under my bed).

Just an option really, you could either go for the micro-ATX motherboard and still be below budget.
Or for a little more go for the ATX motherboard, a quality PSU and a ATX case.

(ATX cases are pretty big, or at least this Zen is. Micro-ATX cases are a bit smaller)

Finally, superspecials are deals they do for a certain number of days / number of units.

Cool about the deals. As for the case, it's midi-ATX... isn't that capable of taking a full size motherboard, but the case is just medium sized? I knoe micro-ATX requires a specific motherboard type, but I wasn't too sure about midi. I will have a look at other cases anywho. Plus, on the site, full towers seem to be server cases, or else hella expensive.

EDIT: Oh yeah, it only takes micro ATX. Hmmmm...

prawnstar69

I did question myself. In the description of the Ferrari case it said uATX so I'd assume it wouldn't take a full ATX board. I could be wrong though. You could possibly call them and double-check before you order.

edit - Beat'd - The Zen is classed as a MIDI. So just keep looking through the MIDI cases.

oddment

Wow, this is a cheap yet stylish case, which has a 400w PSU and a fan included. Look good?

oddment

The reviews on the site all seem positive. God, it's so much hassle trying to put together a computer. Will all be worth it in the end though I suppose. I wish I'd brought my credit card with me today, because I would so buy all that right now if I did have it. Ah well, I can just get it sorted when I get home. So if anyone thinks I'm making a major mistake with the configuration I've selected, you have about 7 hours to speak up! Hehe.

prawnstar69

oddment wrote: »

Wow, this is a cheap yet stylish case, which has a 400w PSU and a fan included. Look good?

It does look good, the LAN centre I used to go to had the same cases. However, the recommended minimum PSU wattage for the HD3850 is 450w.

You could still go for the original Ferrari and get the uATX motherboard.

Or...

A bit out there but comes with a 500w

450w


Looks kinda nice + 500w

I personally would recommend a branded PSU though, if you can stretch the budget a tiny bit.

oddment

The Transformer one seems cool... found this one, which is black and silver instead of black and red. Looks good to me, and is a quid or so less expensive than the other case.

I can live with the standard PSU for now, and upgrade to a better one at a later date (ie, when I have more money avaliable, hehe).

prawnstar69

Good times.

Apparently people can't find the front USB etc ports. So remember to "push the nose down". Heh

oddment

prawnstar69 wrote: »

Good times.

Apparently people can't find the front USB etc ports. So remember to "push the nose down". Heh

Haha, yeah I saw that. Pretty funny. Honestly, any case will be better than my current one. It's so bog standard it's moderatley depressing. Thanks for all your help! I probably would have completely cocked up building a computer all on my own. That would not be fun.

prawnstar69

No problem. Let us know how it all goes!

romanqwerty

Before you order online, have u shopped around at your local computer stores or the like? Here in Australia there are a bunch of asian mom and pop computer stores that will sell you parts for very very little markup.

Another alternative is a computer market. I recently bought parts and built a computer. i had the money so i went for a more expensive budget then you have. For a CPU at the high end intel wins hands down, however at the mid range dual cores AMD's are just as good and often quite a bit cheaper. Id have to say invest in the intel if you are going to be running a 64bit OS.

Looking at your build the case looks fairly expensive relative to you other products. I'd strongly advise on going with a ATX form factor, especially if its your first build. Small cases are a real pain to work with.

oddment

romanqwerty wrote: »

Before you order online, have u shopped around at your local computer stores or the like? Here in Australia there are a bunch of asian mom and pop computer stores that will sell you parts for very very little markup.

Another alternative is a computer market. I recently bought parts and built a computer. i had the money so i went for a more expensive budget then you have. For a CPU at the high end intel wins hands down, however at the mid range dual cores AMD's are just as good and often quite a bit cheaper. Id have to say invest in the intel if you are going to be running a 64bit OS.

Looking at your build the case looks fairly expensive relative to you other products. I'd strongly advise on going with a ATX form factor, especially if its your first build. Small cases are a real pain to work with.

Thanks for the reply. I've gone through a revision now, as posted towards the bottom of page one, and my case of choice now is onlt about £20, so its the cheapest thing in the build.
As for local computer stores and markets... all computer shops here are darn expensive, and I have no knowledge of local independent computer stores (however the shops I have been looking at online are based in the city I live in, so they are probably my best bet anyway). Markets... wouldn't touch with a barge poll. Had some shady experiences of such things in the past, and they never seem to be as cheap over here as you'd expect them to be. So the internet is the best way forward for me, doubly so when you factor in that I can't go very far afield as I do not drive and must rely on public transport... which would then cost a fair bit, possibly more than delivery.

Gonna run my final choices by my friend tonight to see what she thinks, as she will be putting it together for me. Work won't seem to end though...

romanqwerty

Yeah if you cant get a friend to drive you markets are kinda out. Also its good to have a friend build it for (with) you, makes yoru first build a little less of a jump in the deep end. I strongly advise you to build it with her. Knowing exactly how you computer is put together is a great asset.

I still think that case is quite expensive, my case (600w w/ fans) was only 50$(aus) 1/3 of the price of my 500gb HD

oddment

Suprisingly, £20 was the cheapest one I could find with 500w and a fan. There were cheaper cases, but they didn't have power supplies, or had bad ones. I'm fairly certain £20 is a good price for a case over here in the UK. Prices for components in Aus may be cheaper than here, I'm not sure.

And yeah, definatley going to build it with her. Would like to see how its done.

prawnstar69

That case is cheap, you'd be hard pressed to find another with a 500w PSU around £20.

Unfortunately, romanqwerty, in the UK most stuff is more expensive.

Computer fairs (or at least my local one) are a bit iffy. If something does go wrong the support just isn't as reliable.

Last thing oddment, the PSU you get with your case probably won't have SATA power leads. I'm pretty damn sure though that the hard drive you're getting (same as mine) accepts a standard molex 4-pin power connector as well as a SATA power lead, so you should be ok.

Locust76

Just a thought: You can save money by ditching the PC2-6400 (800 mhz) memory and going for the PC2-5300 (667mhz). It's going to be a minimal performance difference in only the most memory-intensive apps.

oddment

Well, I have ordered it. It will be arriving on Saturday. A couple of questions... the graphics card has DVI and HDMI outputs (I believe), and my monitor is VGA. Does this mean I'll need an adaptor to see anything?

Also, I want to check out what games I should be able to run on my new setup... is there a site like www.canyourunit.com, that you can input your specs to find out what games will run well, rather than it scanning the computer to check for you (since I don't actually have the computer yet).

Rook

oddment wrote: »

Well, I have ordered it. It will be arriving on Saturday. A couple of questions... the graphics card has DVI and HDMI outputs (I believe), and my monitor is VGA. Does this mean I'll need an adaptor to see anything?

Also, I want to check out what games I should be able to run on my new setup... is there a site like www.canyourunit.com, that you can input your specs to find out what games will run well, rather than it scanning the computer to check for you (since I don't actually have the computer yet).

Pretty much every graphics card will be bundled with a little DVI-> VGA adaptor. And from what you've bought, there isn't going to be any game you can't run in high, you're pretty much just below the top, and it's really only Crysis that's pushing PCs at the moment.

oddment

Considering I've built it for under £350, I'm suprised I'm near the top... I suppose running Crysis would still be a struggle on the system though. I assume I could run something like The Witcher with no problems at all? Oh, and since now I should be able to play PC games without crippling framerate issues and having to set everything to low, I may start getting a few more PC games... anything good people would suggest?