It's that way a lot in life, isn't it? When you finally get what you always wanted, you realize you don't want it.
Pureauthor on
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KorKnown to detonate from time to timeRegistered Userregular
edited January 2008
I disagree.
To me Wind Waker hasn't aged well at all, but in a different way.
See, Wind Waker's graphics ARE timeless and thats fine, but a lot of things about WW were/are annoying.
Sailing around was great the first time, but it makes the game a chore during a replay.
Of course, this is only amplified during the fetch quest at the end of the game.
And finally, I can't help but feel cheated every time I get the Master sword and have to go the Earth and Air temple, but no Fire and Water.
On the opposite side, TP didn't have that. I can play TP from start to finish again and I have beaten 3 times so far (I've never finished WW more than once, I lose motivation after the master sword get). Because TP flows into the next section so much more smoothly than WW did.
It worries me how many people in this very thread seem to wish we'd stayed in 2D and never moved past the SNES.
Other posters have pointed out that this isn't the case, but I think it's important to note exactly how painful the loss of 2D gaming was.
2D games were basically phased out by corporate mandate just as they were reaching their artistic peak. The late 16-bit and early 32-bit era saw gorgeous 2D games like Astal, SNK's Metal Slug games, Capcom's post-Street Fighter 2 fighters, Yoshi's Island, Vectorman, Comix Zone, Donkey Kong Country, Mega Man 8, Guardian Heroes, Castlevania: SOTN...
The hardware was finally there to make 2D games that looked like playable cartoons, and developers were putting out amazing stuff even on comparitively ancient hardware like the Genesis.
Thiis the stuff we should have been seeing a lot more of in the 32-bit era. What we got were hundreds of absolutely horrendous looking polygonal games, just because more importance was put on a game being 3D than anything else. Sony, in particular, discouraged 2D games on the PSX.
All of that potential was dashed just because people went polygon-crazy.
KorKnown to detonate from time to timeRegistered Userregular
edited January 2008
I will say though, I don't get the problem with a female lead (or supporting character) being attractive or even sexually appealing. I mean... how is that different than a movie or a book.
And this doesn't just happen to females mind you. I mean, do you really think guys would play god of war if Kratos looked like a chubby guy with cheeto fingers? And respectively, would a girl play a game, with an avatar she consideres ugly?
I know plenty of girls that love games like Tomb Raider, Blood Rayne, American Mcgee's Alice. Those same girls despise the femenists for claiming those games portray women in a negative light.
Now, if we're talking about something fuck stupid like "the guy game" thats fine, but when it comes to things like Final Fantasy's, or Metroid or whatever. I don't see the problem in having an attractive person as my avatar.
the very first game my wife bought for her xbox was DOA:XBV and she played the shit out of it
Yeah, can't say I see what the argument is about the sex-object thing. By definition nearly any protagonist in a video game is a sex object, because their visible physical features are exaggerated (muscular men, large breasted women) while the personality and feelings of the 'person' in question is de-emphasized.
How could it be any other way? You're playing the 'person' being portrayed, so you are intended to supply the meaningful internal essence, feelings, personality, etc. Would tomb raider (the original, the only one I played) have been a better game if Lara Croft had looked like your average archeologist, male or female? I wouldn't think so, why should an artificially created protagonist not have appealing physical attributes? What's the difference between Lara Croft and Indiana Jones? I haven't watched any of the tomb/jones movies recently but I'm pretty sure our esteemed Dr. Jones sleeps with a lot more people than Dr. Croft ever does.
In a video game, both would be silent avatars in front of you, devoid of personality, physical characteristics emphasized.
edit: and I have to add, all the girls I am friends with REALLY LIKED the doa volleyball game. They played it a lot more than I ever did.
To be fair, Wing Commander already had a lot of movie aspects (I mean, the cutscenes were all movie, excluding WCI). It's just that the actual movie they based off the game sucked.
Samus isn't a sex object, nor has she ever been.
If any woman who dresses in a way that shows her curves at all is a sex object, there aren't many respectable women out there in the real world.
To be fair, Wing Commander already had a lot of movie aspects (I mean, the cutscenes were all movie, excluding WCI). It's just that the actual movie they based off the game sucked.
True... actually, my biggest beef was WCV... though I went over that in another thread.
Samus isn't a sex object, nor has she ever been.
If any woman who dresses in a way that shows her curves at all is a sex object, there aren't many respectable women out there in the real world.
I didnt' realize being a sex object meant no one respected you.
It worries me how many people in this very thread seem to wish we'd stayed in 2D and never moved past the SNES.
Other posters have pointed out that this isn't the case, but I think it's important to note exactly how painful the loss of 2D gaming was.
2D games were basically phased out by corporate mandate just as they were reaching their artistic peak. The late 16-bit and early 32-bit era saw gorgeous 2D games like Astal, SNK's Metal Slug games, Capcom's post-Street Fighter 2 fighters, Yoshi's Island, Vectorman, Comix Zone, Donkey Kong Country, Mega Man 8, Guardian Heroes, Castlevania: SOTN...
The hardware was finally there to make 2D games that looked like playable cartoons, and developers were putting out amazing stuff even on comparitively ancient hardware like the Genesis.
Thiis the stuff we should have been seeing a lot more of in the 32-bit era. What we got were hundreds of absolutely horrendous looking polygonal games, just because more importance was put on a game being 3D than anything else. Sony, in particular, discouraged 2D games on the PSX.
All of that potential was dashed just because people went polygon-crazy.
I would lime this post so hard if it wouldn't eye-rape the whole thread. I don't hate 3D games or anything, I just feel cheated that instead of being a new realm of games they became the ONLY 'real' games, and all the kick-ass things that could have been done is 2D with more processing power and attention just never happened at all.
I'm really hoping that WiiWare/PSN/XBLA provide a home for 2D gaming in the modern era, because there's no reason for it to die - there's plenty of room for both 2D and 3D gaming, just like there's plenty of room for waggle and traditional controllers.
Samus isn't a sex object, nor has she ever been.
If any woman who dresses in a way that shows her curves at all is a sex object, there aren't many respectable women out there in the real world.
I didnt' realize being a sex object meant no one respected you.
Then what is it? Do you mean that Samus is a sex object because she was marketed in a way to attract male gamers? What makes one an official sex object?
I wonder how Samus deals with being a sex object, lusted over by millions of people the world over. I'm finding it tough going, I guess I could use some pointers.
The_Scarab on
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KorKnown to detonate from time to timeRegistered Userregular
Samus isn't a sex object, nor has she ever been.
If any woman who dresses in a way that shows her curves at all is a sex object, there aren't many respectable women out there in the real world.
I didnt' realize being a sex object meant no one respected you.
Then what is it? Do you mean that Samus is a sex object because she was marketed in a way to attract male gamers? What makes one an official sex object?
My point was people can find things sexually attractive without losing respect for them.
Tomb Raider is an awesome series (sans AoD). You don't see me shunning it because Lara was naked on a cover of Xpert Gamer back in the day, do you?
Do you see people talking down on God of War because the Oracle had teh bewbs? no... not really.
My point, as I stated this 2 pages ago, is that there is nothing wrong with sex appeal. It works.
Would you play God of War if it stared Krampos, some pudgy guy who had a bow staff and an afro? NO
Just like you wouldn't think Die Hard was an awesome Action Movie if it stared Danny DeVito.
I wonder how Samus deals with being a sex object, lusted over by millions of people the world over. I'm finding it tough going, I guess I could use some pointers.
Samus isn't a sex object, nor has she ever been.
If any woman who dresses in a way that shows her curves at all is a sex object, there aren't many respectable women out there in the real world.
I didnt' realize being a sex object meant no one respected you.
Then what is it? Do you mean that Samus is a sex object because she was marketed in a way to attract male gamers? What makes one an official sex object?
My point was people can find things sexually attractive without losing respect for them.
Tomb Raider is an awesome series (sans AoD). You don't see me shunning it because Lara was naked on a cover of Xpert Gamer back in the day, do you?
Do you see people talking down on God of War because the Oracle had teh bewbs? no... not really.
My point, as I stated this 2 pages ago, is that there is nothing wrong with sex appeal. It works.
Would you play God of War if it stared Krampos, some pudgy guy who had a bow staff and an afro? NO
Just like you wouldn't think Die Hard was an awesome Action Movie if it stared Danny DeVito.
Ah, but this is a whole different discussion, though. It's not really sex/lust as much as "the most awesome guy/girl ever". Obviously, when I'm playing a videogame about some knight or space hero, I want to control either a good-looking and strong-willed man or a sexy but deadly woman. I don't want some ugly old crippled guy unable to carry his weight around.
The discussion, as I recall, started with Algertman's dumb claim that every single male gamer is a penis who can't deal with women without starting to hump them. The fact that most women in videogames are portrayed as very hot is not a bad thing inherently.
It's shit like DOAX volley that's a problem, not the fact that Lara Croft has boobs. You mostly see her back anyway as she performs stunts to explore dungeons and caverns. That's pretty cool, just like Prince of Persia.
Djiem on
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HenroidMexican kicked from Immigration ThreadCentrism is Racism :3Registered Userregular
Wild Arms had a good tradition of strong non-sexist female characters (WA3 & 4 anyway).
I got that impression very fast from Wild Arms 3 (though I never got too far into it). I forgot her name, but she left me thinking that she's one of those, "You can either come along and help or go fuck yourself, so seeya" kind of characters. We need more of that in female leads. I'm serious.
Henroid on
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KorKnown to detonate from time to timeRegistered Userregular
Samus isn't a sex object, nor has she ever been.
If any woman who dresses in a way that shows her curves at all is a sex object, there aren't many respectable women out there in the real world.
I didnt' realize being a sex object meant no one respected you.
Then what is it? Do you mean that Samus is a sex object because she was marketed in a way to attract male gamers? What makes one an official sex object?
My point was people can find things sexually attractive without losing respect for them.
Tomb Raider is an awesome series (sans AoD). You don't see me shunning it because Lara was naked on a cover of Xpert Gamer back in the day, do you?
Do you see people talking down on God of War because the Oracle had teh bewbs? no... not really.
My point, as I stated this 2 pages ago, is that there is nothing wrong with sex appeal. It works.
Would you play God of War if it stared Krampos, some pudgy guy who had a bow staff and an afro? NO
Just like you wouldn't think Die Hard was an awesome Action Movie if it stared Danny DeVito.
Ah, but this is a whole different discussion, though. It's not really sex/lust as much as "the most awesome guy/girl ever". Obviously, when I'm playing a videogame about some knight or space hero, I want to control either a good-looking and strong-willed man or a sexy but deadly woman. I don't want some ugly old crippled guy unable to carry his weight around.
The discussion, as I recall, started with Algertman's dumb claim that every single male gamer is a penis who can't deal with women without starting to hump them. The fact that most women in videogames are portrayed as very hot is not a bad thing inherently.
It's shit like DOAX volley that's a problem, not the fact that Lara Croft has boobs. You mostly see her back anyway as she performs stunts to explore dungeons and caverns. That's pretty cool, just like Prince of Persia.
Indeed a different discussion. No I wasn't party of the Algertman's claim thing. I must've missed that (or I think I did).
I was starting to stray there for a bit, and thought about making a different thread, but I sorta hoped this would resolve itself quick enough to move on.
Anyway, Sad moments in gaming:
Man... I love me some Final Fantasy VII... Oh, I hear they're finally making sequals... Oh cool a movie, thats awesome. Hey 3 games, too? Thats kickass! Wait... one is for the PS2, thats cool, but a cell phone game? I'll never get to play that. A PSP game? Shit I don't want to buy a system for just 1 game...
You can replace Final Fantasy VII with Kingdom hearts there if you so chose.
I almost want to shed a tear everytime I head to my parents for holidays and look at my old videogame magazines. I poured over all of those so many times that it makes me wish magazines were still the only way to get info on games.
Just like you wouldn't think Die Hard was an awesome Action Movie if it stared Danny DeVito.
You know, the whole big deal with Die Hard was that it DIDN'T star a super macho, male-sex appeal character like Stalone, but rather an ordinary guy caught in an extraordinary situation.
Casting Bruce Willis in the day was almost like casting Danny DeVito.
I almost want to shed a tear everytime I head to my parents for holidays and look at my old videogame magazines. I poured over all of those so many times that it makes me wish magazines were still the only way to get info on games.
I still have all issues of Nintendo Power from issue 32 to now (32 being when I subscribed). My mother renewed my subscription every year because it really helped me learn english.
Posts
Platinum FC: 2880 3245 5111
To me Wind Waker hasn't aged well at all, but in a different way.
See, Wind Waker's graphics ARE timeless and thats fine, but a lot of things about WW were/are annoying.
Sailing around was great the first time, but it makes the game a chore during a replay.
Of course, this is only amplified during the fetch quest at the end of the game.
And finally, I can't help but feel cheated every time I get the Master sword and have to go the Earth and Air temple, but no Fire and Water.
On the opposite side, TP didn't have that. I can play TP from start to finish again and I have beaten 3 times so far (I've never finished WW more than once, I lose motivation after the master sword get). Because TP flows into the next section so much more smoothly than WW did.
Pokemon Safari - Sneasel, Pawniard, ????
Other posters have pointed out that this isn't the case, but I think it's important to note exactly how painful the loss of 2D gaming was.
2D games were basically phased out by corporate mandate just as they were reaching their artistic peak. The late 16-bit and early 32-bit era saw gorgeous 2D games like Astal, SNK's Metal Slug games, Capcom's post-Street Fighter 2 fighters, Yoshi's Island, Vectorman, Comix Zone, Donkey Kong Country, Mega Man 8, Guardian Heroes, Castlevania: SOTN...
The hardware was finally there to make 2D games that looked like playable cartoons, and developers were putting out amazing stuff even on comparitively ancient hardware like the Genesis.
Thiis the stuff we should have been seeing a lot more of in the 32-bit era. What we got were hundreds of absolutely horrendous looking polygonal games, just because more importance was put on a game being 3D than anything else. Sony, in particular, discouraged 2D games on the PSX.
All of that potential was dashed just because people went polygon-crazy.
Female Lead Characters:
Metroid Prime 1,2,3
Perfect Dark, PD Zero
Drakken 1 and 2
Syberia 1 ans 2
Silent Hill 3
Jeane D'Arc
Bloodrayne 1,2
Strong Supporting Characters
Odin Sphere
Grim Grimoire
Shandow Hearts 1,2,3
Chrono Cross
Tales of Symphonia
Final Fantasy 8
etc..
The point was female characters that weren't sex objects. Which pretty much kills your whole list.
Pokemon Safari - Sneasel, Pawniard, ????
Sometimes I Stream Games: http://www.ustream.tv/channel/italax-plays-video-games
How about Alyx?
Platinum FC: 2880 3245 5111
And this doesn't just happen to females mind you. I mean, do you really think guys would play god of war if Kratos looked like a chubby guy with cheeto fingers? And respectively, would a girl play a game, with an avatar she consideres ugly?
I know plenty of girls that love games like Tomb Raider, Blood Rayne, American Mcgee's Alice. Those same girls despise the femenists for claiming those games portray women in a negative light.
Now, if we're talking about something fuck stupid like "the guy game" thats fine, but when it comes to things like Final Fantasy's, or Metroid or whatever. I don't see the problem in having an attractive person as my avatar.
Pokemon Safari - Sneasel, Pawniard, ????
Ok so that maybe exludes the Bloodrayne games and MAYBE Perfect Dark...
But there's a hell of a lot of difference between Kate Walker going around solving puzzles and the crap that's in DOA extreme beach Volleyball.
There are a lot of Final Fantasy female characters that have a lot of depth, intelligence, etc.
Think a bit more carefully about these before you dismiss the whole list.
Sometimes I Stream Games: http://www.ustream.tv/channel/italax-plays-video-games
Also another sad moment, I haven't played any of the Metroid Prime games.
Are you guys serious?
I mean... every single metroid holds the tradition of "beat the game the right way and she'll show you some skin"
Not to mention the Zero Suit has more suction than Kirby.
Pokemon Safari - Sneasel, Pawniard, ????
I can't think of anyone who played Metroid just to see some skin. The Zero Suit is a full body jumpsuit.
I guess a character in a t-shirt and jeans is also a sex object. You can see female curves, oh noes.
How could it be any other way? You're playing the 'person' being portrayed, so you are intended to supply the meaningful internal essence, feelings, personality, etc. Would tomb raider (the original, the only one I played) have been a better game if Lara Croft had looked like your average archeologist, male or female? I wouldn't think so, why should an artificially created protagonist not have appealing physical attributes? What's the difference between Lara Croft and Indiana Jones? I haven't watched any of the tomb/jones movies recently but I'm pretty sure our esteemed Dr. Jones sleeps with a lot more people than Dr. Croft ever does.
In a video game, both would be silent avatars in front of you, devoid of personality, physical characteristics emphasized.
edit: and I have to add, all the girls I am friends with REALLY LIKED the doa volleyball game. They played it a lot more than I ever did.
Erik
This day was worse then the day the music died.
If any woman who dresses in a way that shows her curves at all is a sex object, there aren't many respectable women out there in the real world.
Zeboyd Games Development Blog
Steam ID : rwb36, Twitter : Werezompire, Facebook : Zeboyd Games
I didnt' realize being a sex object meant no one respected you.
Pokemon Safari - Sneasel, Pawniard, ????
I'm really hoping that WiiWare/PSN/XBLA provide a home for 2D gaming in the modern era, because there's no reason for it to die - there's plenty of room for both 2D and 3D gaming, just like there's plenty of room for waggle and traditional controllers.
Then what is it? Do you mean that Samus is a sex object because she was marketed in a way to attract male gamers? What makes one an official sex object?
Jade is hot..
PSN: super_emu
Xbox360 Gamertag: Emuchop
My point was people can find things sexually attractive without losing respect for them.
Tomb Raider is an awesome series (sans AoD). You don't see me shunning it because Lara was naked on a cover of Xpert Gamer back in the day, do you?
Do you see people talking down on God of War because the Oracle had teh bewbs? no... not really.
My point, as I stated this 2 pages ago, is that there is nothing wrong with sex appeal. It works.
Would you play God of War if it stared Krampos, some pudgy guy who had a bow staff and an afro? NO
Just like you wouldn't think Die Hard was an awesome Action Movie if it stared Danny DeVito.
Pokemon Safari - Sneasel, Pawniard, ????
I would pay so much to see this movie.
PSN: super_emu
Xbox360 Gamertag: Emuchop
Ah, but this is a whole different discussion, though. It's not really sex/lust as much as "the most awesome guy/girl ever". Obviously, when I'm playing a videogame about some knight or space hero, I want to control either a good-looking and strong-willed man or a sexy but deadly woman. I don't want some ugly old crippled guy unable to carry his weight around.
The discussion, as I recall, started with Algertman's dumb claim that every single male gamer is a penis who can't deal with women without starting to hump them. The fact that most women in videogames are portrayed as very hot is not a bad thing inherently.
It's shit like DOAX volley that's a problem, not the fact that Lara Croft has boobs. You mostly see her back anyway as she performs stunts to explore dungeons and caverns. That's pretty cool, just like Prince of Persia.
This.
I got that impression very fast from Wild Arms 3 (though I never got too far into it). I forgot her name, but she left me thinking that she's one of those, "You can either come along and help or go fuck yourself, so seeya" kind of characters. We need more of that in female leads. I'm serious.
Indeed a different discussion. No I wasn't party of the Algertman's claim thing. I must've missed that (or I think I did).
I was starting to stray there for a bit, and thought about making a different thread, but I sorta hoped this would resolve itself quick enough to move on.
Anyway, Sad moments in gaming:
Man... I love me some Final Fantasy VII... Oh, I hear they're finally making sequals... Oh cool a movie, thats awesome. Hey 3 games, too? Thats kickass! Wait... one is for the PS2, thats cool, but a cell phone game? I'll never get to play that. A PSP game? Shit I don't want to buy a system for just 1 game...
You can replace Final Fantasy VII with Kingdom hearts there if you so chose.
Pokemon Safari - Sneasel, Pawniard, ????
You know, the whole big deal with Die Hard was that it DIDN'T star a super macho, male-sex appeal character like Stalone, but rather an ordinary guy caught in an extraordinary situation.
Casting Bruce Willis in the day was almost like casting Danny DeVito.
I still have all issues of Nintendo Power from issue 32 to now (32 being when I subscribed). My mother renewed my subscription every year because it really helped me learn english.