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Attraction normalacy?
Captain Vash
Registered User regular
Registered User regular
I'm sure this probably a pretty normal thing, but being the insecure person I am I'm looking for some external validation.
So I fell in love with a girl.
She has a boyfriend unfortunately.
She didn't tell me no, she told me she was confused, and not single at the moment.
That's not really the point it just establishes that there's a girl I'm really into who currently chooses her current relationship over me.
My problem, as it were, is that I'm now attracted to no one except her, I see other girls and the best I can do is think about how much they are not her. I've lost pretty much all sexual desire, except for her, which I hold off on because I think it's a respect issue.
I imagine that this is a pretty normal thing, and given time I'll get over it, but I'm lookin' for someone else to say so I can believe it.
So I fell in love with a girl.
She has a boyfriend unfortunately.
She didn't tell me no, she told me she was confused, and not single at the moment.
That's not really the point it just establishes that there's a girl I'm really into who currently chooses her current relationship over me.
My problem, as it were, is that I'm now attracted to no one except her, I see other girls and the best I can do is think about how much they are not her. I've lost pretty much all sexual desire, except for her, which I hold off on because I think it's a respect issue.
I imagine that this is a pretty normal thing, and given time I'll get over it, but I'm lookin' for someone else to say so I can believe it.
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Move on the more you dwell on it the worse it will be.
Don't even think about trying to steal her away from her current boyfriend. Regardless of the outcome, there will be lots of drama for all three of you.
So brief, yet so wise.
Limp moose, I hereby dub you "Lime moose": for surely, the words that pour onto your posts should be filled and overflowing with that color of admiration and acknowledgment of truth.
EDIT: Also...
Also needed to be limed for great truth, though I can't fit "lime" into your name as easily. Maybe "Nibblime", but that just mucks the whole thing up.
Anyways, not only would it be drama, but (A) there's many, many other women in the world that you will be able to notice if you can pull yourself out of being hooked on this one, and (B) trying to steal her away fails any kind of Categorical Imperative test you can try to throw at it, if you're interested in that sort of thing. Remember, as Kant said, "Act only according to that maxim whereby you can at the same time will that it should become a universal law."
It doesn't really seem fair for the female.
It's a bit disingenuous, but if you just are going out to coffee or something, then really what is the harm.
I understand you saying you have no interest in other women, but you must have the intellectual interest to hold a conversation over a meal or something.
Yeah, that's basically what I was thinking, even if I'm not physically starving for sex I can still meet new people and if I'm lucky I can meet someone who makes me forget about this other girl.
Seems reasonable.
and theres also a pervers subset of Murphy's Law going on - the attractive girls will invariably be taken - it is, in my experience, rare that they're single when you are. The woman who would eventually become my wife was just exactly at the right point, relationship-wise, when I'd met her - single, and over the last guy. I cannot express to you how amazingly lucky that was - right place, right time.
So, yeah, go for other girls, get this one out of your mind - because if you go nuts over how great she is and then you have a shot one day - you'll find that she's merely mortal. She will of course have been exactly the same girl you fell for, but your expectations have been over-inflated.
Ok I've been in this situation twice and handled it two different ways.
The first time, I slept with her any way and took the boyfriend on. No problem, the guy's larger friends however were. Also, everyone heard about this and damaged my chances of dating for a while.
The second time, I ignored it and masturbated furiously when I felt the need (yes this helps, dirty but it helps). I busied myself with work and studies, went out with mates and eventually the whole thing blew over. Now she's a slut and last I heard she contracted something or rather and is now pregnant, dodged a bullet I guess.
In other words dude, the best thing is to ignore it, if you follow it, things will end up disastrous.
Boyfriends don't really matter - its not like she's married to him and they have kids and a house and all that. If she liked you she would be hooking up with you an increasing amount and seeing the old boyfriend less and less until you became the new BF. This type of "being in love" or infatuation with someone who you havent datedor anything doesn't sound normal if you're above say high school age. Seems like she doesn't like you and has no desire to hang out with you 1 on 1. Move on mang.
"Going out with" != a bizarre committment of heart and soul only found in books by the Austin sisters. It's not the same as "going steady" or whatnot.
"Going out with" = going to the movies, or coffee, or out with a group, and giving yourself the opportunity to notice that other girls smell good, too.
If you were a woman, I'd suggest you find a nice, clean cut and girl friendly gay man to hang out with, gossip with, and occasionally go shopping with while you recover (don't know how I'd survive without mine). Alas, if there's an equivalent for men, I don't know what it is.
Porn? Godzilla? Football? Roadrunner v. Coyote? Mythbusters? A strip club?
lol - except for the football, sounds like a grand time.
But theres really only one cure, like the song says, there is nothing in the world like a dame.
"Your sort of young but you're over age
I don't care 'cause I like your style
Don't know about your brain but you look alright
Your mind is dirty but your hands are clean
You're low on class but your legs are long"
-Rainbow "All Night Long"*
*(possibly the worst rock song ever written)
If you can find someone who is mutually unconcerned with the outcome of a relationship then it could work out.
I think it should be said that you're treading on delicate ground according to how you treat this situation. You could end up being a sad sappy sucker, a colossal jerk, or a regular normal guy. Think of the opportunities and do your best to successfully move on.
1) get dumped
2) be depressed for a week
3) get hooked on an MMO for a few months
4) lose or gain alot of weight and lose any aspect of a social life
5) randomly discover a new girl
6) become infatuated with her and forget other girl even existed
7) get dumped
8) repeat
And the implication that obsessed over a girl = her being a slut? I'm not seeing how your bad experience makes that a common occurrence.
While I'm not completely discounting this, I doubt that this is what I'm experiencing, because there are other girls I know who have boyfriends and I'm not bothered by it, it's one girl in particular.
Okay, this post is the most disruptive to me, seeing as, we do hang out all the time. In groups we end up near each other 90% of the time, and we hang out alone relatively often as well.
Damn you sir, you are feeding my hope.
There, I fixed that for you.
The rest of us have better techniques surrounding this so called "ritual".
Vash, I am literally going through the exact situation as you right now, and I just can't get over this girl. She is just so smart and beautiful that other women just don't measure up. And she actually didn't say no to me, either... she was confused (exact word).
And see, its not that easy to get over her. Because just as I start to admire other women, I catch her staring at me for long periods of time or smiling at me randomly while she stares. Then I think "Holy shit, so she might like me" and then my obsessiveness just starts again.
...
It's like you are me.
Your post is exactly something I would say.
My advice: Stay away, or if you are in a situation where you can't avoid her, don't reciprocate any flirting until she gets her current relationship sorted out.
Don't pull home from those posts. It is ill advised, for a wide variety of reasons, to pursue someone already in a relationship (even if the relationship is faltering). Some of those reasons have already been covered above, but basically try to find another fish in this vast ocean. I know that's hard to hear, but for your own sake do it.
In a year or two, you'll look back and be extremely thankful that you cut your losses here and now.
Sometimes, for new relationships to be born, old ones have to die. It happens often. People leaving someone for someone else isn't unheard of. My ex was in a relationship when I met her, but I knew this and still continued on. I let her know that I was interested in being more than just a friend, I wasn't just some orbital dude waiting for her to break up, but since she was already committed to someone I was just going to have to be a friend and find someone else for myself. But I let her know I'd still talk to her, maybe. This caught her attention a bit, and though she still hung out with me as a "friend" there was always a bit of tension. Eventually she decided she wasn't happy anymore with her old boyfriend and they broke up, and then we got together.
The only way this works is if
1) The girl's relationship with the other guy is on it's way out (meaning they are already past the climax of their relationship)
2) The girl is interested in you too'
P.S. No one is going to "fucking beat your ass" for seducing a girl. This is real life, not the internet, if they do that they will go straight to prison for assault.
Someone leaving someone else IS often done in our society... but we're not here to give advice about "what can be gotten away with"... at least, most of us aren't. Because it's done hardly justifies it as what one OUGHT to do. Stealing another person's girlfriend is pretty close to the top of the list of "actions that cannot pass a Categorical Imperative test."
If the girl wants to leave her relationship, she'll do it. And when she does, then he can be there for her. But if she hasn't left yet, then she's not actually looking. At best, she may be keeping him around as a "replacement batter" if you will, which is not worth the time nor the effort.
In the o-p's case he put it out on the line. She said no.
Trying anything after that just makes you look desperate. She knows you are there. If it goes south with the other guy and she really was interested she will come back to you. Until then stop bothering the girl and go live your life. Find someone that doesn't have to think twice about wanting to be with you.
When you get rejected by a chick she is the only one in the world and you wallow in self doubt and insecurity. Thats bull shit. There are more girls out there looking to meet great guys than you can shake a stick at. You could drive around town for 2 hours on a Saturday afternoon and meet 10 women if you really wanted to. A walk through pet smart, barnes and nobles, and the mall with a flashy smile and a friendly hello could get you enough dates for a month.
This girl sure she's pretty sure shes great but seriously man there are more fish in the sea than anyone fisherman could ever catch. Get back out there and play like a champ and you will be hauling in a new catch no time flat.
Indeed you can't "steal" them in the sense of property. But you can remove her from an existing relationship (and that can happen vice-versa as well). And that's utterly un-universalizable, because if everyone felt free to do that there wouldn't even BE such a thing as a relationship to begin with: it would make the concept of a "relationship" utterly meaningless. And thus, trying to remove her from a "relationship" so you could begin a "relationship" with her would be a contradiction.
That is why I say it cannot be categorically imperative. In fact, it is categorically imperative NOT to behave in this way.
When I said "steal", that was simply an easier way of saying the above. Of course she's not property, but you can't just go around wrecking other people's relationships because you feel she might be better off with you. If she makes that decision on her own that's fine, and if she leaves the relationship for other reasons that's fine. But it's no one's (man or woman) place to convince someone (again, man or woman) to leave a relationship for him/her.
If you doubt this, ask yourself how far you're willing to take propositioning people in a relationship as your Maxim. Would you will that someone would do it to you? Would you will that everyone could/would/should do it to everyone? Would it apply even to people in a marriage?
In either case, however, Limp moose is right. She said no to it, which (whether you believe my opinion or the contrary one put forth a couple posts ago) pretty much kills any chance of it. He's better off finding someone else.
This fucking girl is driving me crazy.
But let it be known, he is NOT leaving because she is in a relationship, but because she just doesn't like him.
If she says she's confused, pushing the issue will likely only hurt your chances with her. Even worse, you might get her but -- as others have warned -- you will create drama that not only will be a headache for you, but will provide another obstacle for the early stages of your relationship.
She must be fantastic. You must be in love. But she won't be the last and I doubt she's the first woman you've fallen for.
If you really want her, the best thing you can do is to state how you feel without dropping an ultimatum, and then let it and her be. If you can say with your actions, "I want to be with you but I don't want to be a jerk, I don't want drama, and I don't want to wait around," you'll probably get her in the end. You seem to have the patience to wait for her, so do yourself a favor and get on with the rest of your life.
Don't be afraid to date other women, just as long as you don't get too deep in to things and lead one of them on. If my personal experience is any indication, if you pursue her you may or may not get her and life will suck more than it has too. If you tell her the deal and show you can move on, you'll find her waiting on your proverbial doorstep some day but you might ignore the doorbell because you have someone better over for Godzilla and MythBusters.
I know I'm not the OPer, but I'm in the same situation and seeking the same advice.
The girl I'm interested in told me she was very flattered when I asked her out, but was very "confused." She then went on to explain how she really likes me as a friend, and doesn't see us becoming anything more than that and she doesn't want to lead me on because she really respects me.
But, like I said before, I still catch her flirting with me all the time, getting physical with me at events (like I play catch with my friend, she comes up and starts "blocking" me which really just amounts to her rubbing against me), and looking and smiling (excessively) at me. My friend even made a comment about how she is always staring at me and he thought it was weird.
It's in your best interest to classify that as her nature and not signs of attraction. Don't dwell on a simple hope and forget all of the other opportunities you have around you. Regard her as a friend. Not a potential mate.
Ah, my friend... I know exactly where you're coming from. Allow me to tell you a story that I hope will help. It might not, but one can hope.
Long ago, I was in high school. I know, shock.
Anyways, I had the hots for this girl, I'll call her Eponine. Eponine had dark auburn hair and thick-yet-attractive librarian-esque glasses, and a mischievous smile that drove me out of my mind.
The thing was, Eponine wasn't interested. She'd pretend sometimes... she'd be flirty some days when she noticed that I wasn't paying much attention to her. If I started to take interest in someone else, she seemed to inevitably "need my help" with something, and in helping her out I'd fall all over again. She even went so far as to go out on a date with me once... she was my first kiss as a result of that date, and I thought if I died right that minute it'd be just fine with me.
She said she "couldn't go on like this" the next day, and I was back to being single... but I cared for her more than ever now that I had felt what it was like to kiss her. And, in retrospect, I think she knew that all too well.
I spent a good year wallowing in self pity, utterly unable to conceive of being in love with anyone else. I wrote poems about my heartache and her beauty, and I was sure that the one kiss I received from her would be the only one I was ever to receive in my life from anyone.
About six months after this "break up" (as I thought of it in my mind), she started going out with another young woman. I thought, "Ah, no wonder it didn't work out between us..." but she still gave her flirty glances, and still asked for help or for me to come to her rescue when something was amiss (or when, it felt like, I was starting to get over her).
A few months after that, she left this other girl and started going out with a 24 year old man, who (according to our mutual friends) she let do "anything he wanted to" to and with her.
I realized something after all that drama. She's just a girl. A confused, searching girl just like I was a confused, obsessed boy. I realized, also, that I was NOT what she was looking for. She was looking for attention at this point in her life, and I was giving it to her by the bucketful. But she'd never want me... not me as a person.
I resolved to give up on it that moment, and it took a long time and a lot of searching around for someone new.
But within a year, I had forgotten the shape of that mischievous smile. I forgot how I felt about her (almost) entirely. And I began to realize that there were other women out there... women who were not only attractive to me, but who would accept and like me as a person. Women, as well, who knew what they wanted in life, or at least knew that it was more than the things people seek as children or confused adolescents.
Anyways, time moved on. I went to college, dated a few more women, and realized that there was more to women - and more to relationships - than the two dimensional ideal I had painted it into. What seemed as a child to be a three dimensional, genuine representation of love was revealed, in retrospect, to be shallow and carved of unrealistic expectations and false representations of reality that I had created in my own mind.
In time, I met the love of my life... and we've been happily married for some time now. I graduated and got a job. And now, when I look back at my high school yearbook, the picture of Eponine doesn't look like a woman I would melt over: in fact, I feel foolish about it now. She looks as she was at that time. Confused, searching. I also see someone who I had feelings for because of what she represented to me FAR more than what she was in reality. And I ended up so better off without, knowing from friends what she was like as she went through college and now who she apparently is today.
She was NEVER the woman that I thought she was. I was in love with an ideal, and she was the chosen manifestation of that ideal. But now I have love, a real love with a person that cares about me and accepts me for who I am... and I for her.
And so it will be for you. It just takes time, young one. I hope this story helps you on the journey.
I really don't think I can "just be friends" with her. I really don't.
The best way out of this would be to just forget about her all together, but she is a part of my organization where I spend my free time and I absolutely can't leave that. I don't know what to do.
So don't. You don't have to be rude or anything, just don't call her, make excuses not to see her and avoid her where possible. Block her on MSN, AIM, facebook and whatever. It's not unreasonable.
The last time a woman told me she was confused was just before she told me she couldn't kiss me because she was seeing someone. Then she kind of did this micro pull-push thing and looked at me longingly and then made a face like she was scolding herself. So I said "You want to kiss me but you don't think it would be right."
She gave me this look like, "yeah exactly, how the hell did you pick all that up?" And then said just that. But as she said it, she let the tension out of her shoulders, her cheeks and her jaw. Relief, as it were. I didn't push the issue, but we agreed to become friends on a social networking site and promised to email one another. I didn't show her that I felt rejected at all, I just smiled and was cordial and went my separate way.
And I didn't feel rejected. It just wasn't the right time. Maybe she was rejecting me, but that's irrelevant. I wasn't as in to this particular girl as much as you and Vash seem to be in to your respective ladies, but this woman was seemingly initially just as in to me as your ladies currently are in to you two.
As far as how the situation played out, we talked on IM for a few months after that, always friendly, never needy, and I'd make a point of telling her about anything fun I'd done lately. To my complete, total and utter surprise she's now been trying to get me to go out with her for the past month. I finally agreed to join her and some friends for karaoke next week. But I'm bringing a date. Shrug.
Don't fight timing.
As hard as it is, try... TRY to find someone else. You'll be so glad that you broke free of that spell after it passes. I can't put to you in words how much better your life will be once you free yourself of this.
Try going to extracirricular activities outside of both (A) Activities she goes to AND (B) outside of the normal people you meet at school, if at all possible. Go somewhere and do something that will involve you meeting new women that you're not in contact with, and who are outside of the context where you'd usually run into the girl that you're hooked on.
Try to hang out in that new setting more frequently than you do the prior setting (the one where she's at that you can't leave entirely). If you must stay in it, try to find ways to minimize your role and participation if possible.
Over time, the affliction will fade... as you see how other women treat you, and as you see how the woman of your affection behaves from a more objective distance than the one you're currently at. If you find a new girl that you fancy, ask her out. You can do it.