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The Graphic Violence comic book reading club: Marvels; Read Book 2

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Posts

  • I checked it out at the library a bunch, and since I already read it, I decided to pick up stuff I hadn't read instead whenever I went trade shopping.

    The last time I came close to buying it I ended up buying the new Barenaked Ladies CD/DVD instead. Although if I had ended up with a trade it would have probably been X-Men: First Class anyways.

    The Geebs That Knows Everything About Animorphs on
  • FencingsaxFencingsax It is difficult to get a man to understand, when his salary depends upon his not understanding GNU Terry PratchettRegistered User regular
    edited January 2008
    I have it, but I'm not really sure what's going on.

    Fencingsax on
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  • deadonthestreetdeadonthestreet Registered User regular
    edited January 2008
    Fencingsax wrote: »
    I have it, but I'm not really sure what's going on.
    We are going to read it together and discuss it as we read.

    deadonthestreet on
  • FencingsaxFencingsax It is difficult to get a man to understand, when his salary depends upon his not understanding GNU Terry PratchettRegistered User regular
    edited January 2008
    My favorite parts are the backgrounds.

    Fencingsax on
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  • Garlic BreadGarlic Bread Registered User regular
    edited January 2008
    i don't have marvels

    I've read it, though

    Garlic Bread on
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  • ZeromusZeromus Registered User regular
    edited January 2008
    Hey, cool, this might give me a reason to finally buy Marvels.

    I think we should read something a bit less mainstream afterwards (unless we end up doing Kingdom Come, which would also be a good idea). Something more under-the-radar but still by a well-known creator might be neat (like The Filth by Grant Morrison or most anything by Alan Moore that isn't Watchmen, From Hell, or V for Vendetta).

    Zeromus on
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  • NogsNogs Crap, crap, mega crap. Registered User regular
    edited January 2008
    i think Casanova might be fun to read.

    Nogs on
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    PARKER, YOU'RE FIRED! <-- My comic book podcast Satan!
  • FencingsaxFencingsax It is difficult to get a man to understand, when his salary depends upon his not understanding GNU Terry PratchettRegistered User regular
    edited January 2008
    Zeromus wrote: »
    Hey, cool, this might give me a reason to finally buy Marvels.

    I think we should read something a bit less mainstream afterwards (unless we end up doing Kingdom Come, which would also be a good idea). Something more under-the-radar but still by a well-known creator might be neat (like The Filth by Grant Morrison or most anything by Alan Moore that isn't Watchmen, From Hell, or V for Vendetta).
    Or the League

    Fencingsax on
    torchlight-sig-80.jpg
  • ZeromusZeromus Registered User regular
    edited January 2008
    Right.

    Although, the League comic is really damn awesome and probably gets overlooked because of what a shitfest the movie was.

    Zeromus on
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  • DelduwathDelduwath Registered User regular
    edited January 2008
    Zeromus wrote: »
    I think we should read something a bit less mainstream afterwards (unless we end up doing Kingdom Come, which would also be a good idea). Something more under-the-radar but still by a well-known creator might be neat (like The Filth by Grant Morrison or most anything by Alan Moore that isn't Watchmen, From Hell, or V for Vendetta).

    I wouldn't mind reading The Filth as part of this club, because then maybe you guys can help me understand what the fuck.

    Delduwath on
  • Calamity JaneCalamity Jane That Wrong Love Registered User regular
    edited January 2008
    ETA on when we do Marvels?

    Calamity Jane on
    twitter https://twitter.com/mperezwritesirl michelle patreon https://www.patreon.com/thatwronglove michelle's comic book from IMAGE COMICS you can order http://a.co/dn5YeUD
  • NogsNogs Crap, crap, mega crap. Registered User regular
    edited January 2008
    the OP says for everyone to have it by the middle of next week.

    dunno when we should be finished reading it by.

    Nogs on
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    PARKER, YOU'RE FIRED! <-- My comic book podcast Satan!
  • ManonvonSuperockManonvonSuperock Registered User regular
    edited January 2008
    hell, boys. i'm game.

    I haven't read marvels in well over five years. I also recently purchased the 10th anniversary hardcover for the room mate, so I've been meaning to reread it anyway.

    ManonvonSuperock on
  • Bob The MonkeyBob The Monkey Registered User regular
    edited January 2008
    TPB bought and two books in. I could've sworn I'd read a friend's copy of this a year or so ago, but if my recognition of events is anything to go by I must've stopped at the end of book one. Also I forgot how glorious the art is.

    Bob The Monkey on
  • BalefuegoBalefuego Registered User regular
    edited January 2008
    I can't wait until we get to the Spider-Man one.

    Thats my favorite

    Balefuego on
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  • deadonthestreetdeadonthestreet Registered User regular
    edited January 2008
    Yeah, so, try to read book one by Thursday, that's when we'll start talking about it.

    deadonthestreet on
  • WildcatWildcat Registered User regular
    edited January 2008
    My copy's on order, but it'll probably be early next week before I get hold of it.

    Wildcat on
  • DarkCrawlerDarkCrawler Registered User regular
    edited January 2008
    I have a Marvels hardcover TPB, the most priced thing in my comic collection. Only like thousand of them published in Finland...

    It's an awesome book, and the first book is perhaps my favorite one...so much Namor.

    DarkCrawler on
  • Calamity JaneCalamity Jane That Wrong Love Registered User regular
    edited January 2008
    Right then.

    This first book is the coming of the Marvels and the range of reactions they get relative to time. It's interesting that people stop fearing folks like Namor and the first Torch as soon they become tools in the war effort.

    Calamity Jane on
    twitter https://twitter.com/mperezwritesirl michelle patreon https://www.patreon.com/thatwronglove michelle's comic book from IMAGE COMICS you can order http://a.co/dn5YeUD
  • arcatharcath Registered User regular
    edited January 2008
    I hate this. I wasnt able to find this at my local shop, B&N, Waldenbooks, or Hastings.

    argh....

    arcath on
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  • MalkorMalkor Registered User regular
    edited February 2008
    Anjin-San wrote: »
    Right then.

    This first book is the coming of the Marvels and the range of reactions they get relative to time. It's interesting that people stop fearing folks like Namor and the first Torch as soon they become tools in the war effort.

    Namor and the Torch were like those war posters brought to life. At least in New York, they actually touched the lives of everyday folk, for good or bad. I like how detached everything seemed from the action. All these huge events are taking place and just being glossed over.

    Malkor on
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  • DelduwathDelduwath Registered User regular
    edited February 2008
    My two favorite (in this case, this means "most emotionally-hitting") images in Book 1 are the Human Torch's face when he's in the glass tube (when he's first presented to the press), and the giant wave of water hitting New York City (although, admittedly, this may be because I live in NYC).
    Anjin-San wrote: »
    It's interesting that people stop fearing folks like Namor and the first Torch as soon they become tools in the war effort.

    That doesn't surprise me as much as the fact that Captain America was almost immediately loved, while Namor and the Human Torch were immediately feared, and maybe hated and distrusted. Is it because Cap looked human, and was "fighting the good fight" sort of from the get-go? That he was one of "us"? In some sense, Captain America is as artificial as the Torch was. I suppose he just made a better first impression.

    Plus, he didn't burn/flood New York City.

    What I also like about Marvels - and this is almost a non-statement, since it's the whole point of the book - is that it shows things from a different perspective. Specifically, a perspective that doesn't have all the information we as comic book readers have. We know where the Human Torch came from. We know who he is and what he does when he's not flying through the sky. We know the details of his confrontation with Namor, and we know what conclusion they came to. Phil and JJJ arrive on the scene to see the two shake hands, and that's all they know. For us, super-heroes are just people, who have their issues and problems. For the regular people in comic books, they are gods, who deal on levels far above the ken of mortal man. In some sense, they make decisions on behalf of regular people without asking their consent first. It's easy (for me, at least) to forget what these super-heroes would look like to a third party that isn't intimately acquainted with them, and Marvels is a good reminder.

    My least favorite part of Book 1 is Phil's speech in the hospital, at the end. Where he talks about how he doesn't hold anger at Namor and the Torch for his eye being put out, and how he's not going to dedicate his life to their downfall. That entire speech seemed very unnatural to me.

    (By the way, could someone summarize what happened in the Namor-Torch confrontation as it was presented in the original comics? I'm having trouble finding that info online.)

    Delduwath on
  • deadonthestreetdeadonthestreet Registered User regular
    edited February 2008
    So the human torch is a robot? But he can eat?

    That's always confused me.

    deadonthestreet on
  • DarkCrawlerDarkCrawler Registered User regular
    edited February 2008
    He's an android, with fully synthetic organs. Marvels #0 shows how he was created by Phineas Horton.

    As for the book itself...

    First thing that probably struck with me is how AWESOME the art is. I've always considered Marvels to be the best work of Ross, and re-reading the book just strengthens the opinion. I'm proud to own this thing. It's a work of art, in both writing and drawing. Ross really brings the feeling of realism on the scenes with regular humans, but whenever a "Marvel" comes out, the scene turns into something that seems to be out of this world. The way he gives the classic scenes and characters the photorealistic outlook is amazing.

    And the wave scene is absolutely amazing. I wish I had the original so I could put it on my wall.
    That doesn't surprise me as much as the fact that Captain America was almost immediately loved, while Namor and the Human Torch were immediately feared, and maybe hated and distrusted. Is it because Cap looked human, and was "fighting the good fight" sort of from the get-go? That he was one of "us"? In some sense, Captain America is as artificial as the Torch was. I suppose he just made a better first impression.

    Well, you can see it from the name itself. Captain America. Carrying the flag of the country. Fighting the Nazis. Handsome, strong, fast, humble...how could the people not love him? He was American, and a human. On the other spectrum you have Namor and Human Torch. I mean, Namor was not American. He loathed America. He attacked U.S.A, destroyed property, probably killed people too...hell, the guy walked to the office of the mayor and beat the living shit out of the guy. He was literally a terrorist.

    Bill Everett was always beyond the other creators of golden age in both art and writing, in my opinion...the fact that he created this sort of character, the first anti-hero when others were creating either characters that were good without any flaws or completely evil, is really impressive and a testament to his writings. Marvels really brings out the spirit of the character as he was in the golden age.

    Then there is a Human Torch. He is a good guy, he's never really hurt anyone...but the fact is, he's an flaming android. People don't care how good and noble he is, they only see the fire. All the displays and melting only raise the fears of the people. Hell, the only time he is accepted by a grump of JJJ's level is when he fights against a worse guy - Sub-Mariner. And again, Sub-Mariner is only accepted by the general public when he fights against people who are worse then him - Nazis and Japanese.
    My least favorite part of Book 1 is Phil's speech in the hospital, at the end. Where he talks about how he doesn't hold anger at Namor and the Torch for his eye being put out, and how he's not going to dedicate his life to their downfall. That entire speech seemed very unnatural to me.

    Well...it kind of was his own fault. They were ordered to get to safety, and he was foolish enough to go to the roof while they were fighting. I am not sure what I would have done in the similar situation, but I don't think I would have blamed them...maybe at first, but dedicating their life to someone's downfall just because you went to somewhere where you should not have been in and got hit in the eye by rubble, with neither of the combatants meaning that to happen...that's supervillain speak to me. Phil seemed to be pretty reasonable guy.

    DarkCrawler on
  • DelduwathDelduwath Registered User regular
    edited February 2008
    My least favorite part of Book 1 is Phil's speech in the hospital, at the end. Where he talks about how he doesn't hold anger at Namor and the Torch for his eye being put out, and how he's not going to dedicate his life to their downfall. That entire speech seemed very unnatural to me.

    Well...it kind of was his own fault. They were ordered to get to safety, and he was foolish enough to go to the roof while they were fighting. I am not sure what I would have done in the similar situation, but I don't think I would have blamed them...maybe at first, but dedicating their life to someone's downfall just because you went to somewhere where you should not have been in and got hit in the eye by rubble, with neither of the combatants meaning that to happen...that's supervillain speak to me. Phil seemed to be pretty reasonable guy.

    As I was writing what I wrote, I was thinking "it's his damn fault he was on the roof, anyway", but then I thought that saying that it's his fault is sort of like saying that it's someone's fault they were shot when they went outside while their city was being strafed by enemy planes. Strictly speaking, yes, it's Phil's fault that he went onto the roof. But it's Namor's fault that the city was being flooded, that people had to hide in special shelters, and that masonry was being flung about (well, this is also partially the Torch's fault).

    As for Phil's speech, yes, of course he's reasonable. That's exactly it: a normal human being would not think about getting revenge on these super-heroes first thing after he comes to, whether it's to make plans to do it or to reassure his family that everything will be OK. He's probably going to be thankful that he's alive, hug his family, and the like. It just felt like Phil was winking at the reader and saying "Don't worry dudes, I'm not going to become a trite super-villain, I'm going to remain the Everyman you expect me to be". Thinking about getting revenge on a hero who (possibly inadvertently) wronged you is an appropriate reaction for an unbalanced person, and an appropriate origin story for a super-villain, but I just feel that it's not something that would even enter an Everyman's head. Which is why it feels out of place to me.

    Delduwath on
  • CloakandDaggerCloakandDagger Registered User
    edited February 2008
    alan moore's swamp thing?

    marvel 1602?

    CloakandDagger on
  • deadonthestreetdeadonthestreet Registered User regular
    edited February 2008
    So, um, this didn't work I guess but if someone else wants to try again please do.

    deadonthestreet on
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