Why are you defending EA when all Fox News has done was report something good that will help parents keep their children away from this filth?
Whatever happened to good conservative values? This new America we live in is disgusting and so are all of you faggots and your limp-wristed liberal agendas. Go whine about the healthcare system (which is the best in the world) or throw false accusations at our brave soldiers in Iraq and let people parent their children.
Have you even played this game? Or any other?This game shows a 2 second shot of a nude butt.Are we born with clothes? I think not.Since when is the human body a sin...after all we were made by god. I have 13 year old that I dont let play M rated games.Yes I watch while my child is playing.the report would have been good if it told the truth but it did not.
Why are you defending EA when all Fox News has done was report something good that will help parents keep their children away from this filth?
Whatever happened to good conservative values? This new America we live in is disgusting and so are all of you faggots and your limp-wristed liberal agendas. Go whine about the healthcare system (which is the best in the world) or throw false accusations at our brave soldiers in Iraq and let people parent their children.
Have you even played this game? Or any other?This game shows a 2 second shot of a nude butt.Are we born with clothes? I think not.Since when is the human body a sin...after all we were made by god. I have 13 year old that I dont let play M rated games.Yes I watch while my child is playing.the report would have been good if it told the truth but it did not.
Why are you defending EA when all Fox News has done was report something good that will help parents keep their children away from this filth?
Whatever happened to good conservative values? This new America we live in is disgusting and so are all of you faggots and your limp-wristed liberal agendas. Go whine about the healthcare system (which is the best in the world) or throw false accusations at our brave soldiers in Iraq and let people parent their children.
Have you even played this game? Or any other?This game shows a 2 second shot of a nude butt.Are we born with clothes? I think not.Since when is the human body a sin...after all we were made by god. I have 13 year old that I dont let play M rated games.Yes I watch while my child is playing.the report would have been good if it told the truth but it did not.
Why are you defending EA when all Fox News has done was report something good that will help parents keep their children away from this filth?
Whatever happened to good conservative values? This new America we live in is disgusting and so are all of you faggots and your limp-wristed liberal agendas. Go whine about the healthcare system (which is the best in the world) or throw false accusations at our brave soldiers in Iraq and let people parent their children.
Have you even played this game? Or any other?This game shows a 2 second shot of a nude butt.Are we born with clothes? I think not.Since when is the human body a sin...after all we were made by god. I have 13 year old that I dont let play M rated games.Yes I watch while my child is playing.the report would have been good if it told the truth but it did not.
I see someone's sarcasm detector is malfunctioning.
Basically, the study takes for granted the assumption that violence and sex in games makes players of those games more likely to engage in those sorts of activities. The researchers showed college students some games, then asked if the content of these games was harmful. The majority of students said no, because it's a video game, not real life. I guess I almost have a problem with it being called a study...it seems more like a glorified survey which the media has of course latched onto.
But really, how do you look at that survey and say "kids can't tell the difference between video games and reality"? It seems like a bunch of students saying, "Yeah, that's a video game, but I wouldn't do that sort of thing in real life," which is exactly the opposite of what she claimed the study showed on FOX News.
It's definitely not a study. It's a few people who have probably never played a video game making the assumption that people that do play video games are mentally unbalanced because of it. When the people participating respond that violence/gore/sex/etc. in video games doesn't harm them because they know that it's not real life the conclusion is drawn that people who play video games have no idea how much their chosen hobby harms them. It's confirmation bias at it's highest. Since they get answers that aren't what they are looking for, they spin them into something else that supports their original assumption.
I realize I'm stereotyping the researchers, but there are not many gamers that would conclude that games = bad.
The more and more I research the study the more I don't understand Professor Killen. I mean, the study consisted of roughly 80 college kids, who were shown images of games, and asked if the stereotypes in the images could ever harm them or other people.
How is that a rational basis for saying adolescents don't understand that stereotypes are negative?
I'd like to update my article with more info on the details of the study, but at this point I'm not sure if it is worth it. Damage is done. We won. Solidarity and so forth.
The NYT article is awesome, I'm just upset that they didn't focus on Cooper misquoting studies at all
That’s the lesson Fox News and a self-help author learned this week after a program on that channel featured a discussion of the sexual content of the hit video game Mass Effect.
Bound by global message boards, blogs, chat rooms and of course the games themselves, gamers are perhaps the single most intense subculture on the Internet — fiercely protective of their pastime and at ease with the byways of cyberspace.
So the game world has been ablaze with indignation since the Fox News program “The Live Desk With Martha MacCallum” said on Monday that Mass Effect, one of the most critically praised games of 2007, contains frontal nudity and explicit depictions of sexual activity. The assertions of virtual lasciviousness first appeared earlier this month among conservative bloggers incensed by brief YouTube clips excerpted from the 30- to 40-hour game.
To exact their revenge, gamers have turned their vitriol on Cooper Lawrence, an author who appeared to mischaracterize the game when she said: “Here’s how they’re seeing women: They’re seeing them as these objects of desire, as these, you know, hot bodies. They don’t show women as being valued for anything other than their sexuality. And it’s a man in this game deciding how many women he wants to be with.”
In fact Mass Effect allows users to play as either a man or a woman, and the few suggestions of intimate contact occur in the context of a detailed interpersonal story line. Asked on the air by Geoff Keighley of Spike TV whether she had ever played the game, Ms. Lawrence laughed and said, “No.”
Irate gamers have flooded the page on Amazon.com selling Ms. Lawrence’s most recent book, “The Cult of Perfection: Making Peace With Your Inner Overachiever,” sending its user-generated rating into oblivion.
By Friday afternoon 412 of the book’s 472 user reviews were the lowest possible rating, one star. Another 48 ratings were for two stars. Only 12 of the ratings were for three stars or higher. In addition, 929 Amazon users had tagged the book with the keyword “ignorant.” Tied for second place with 744 tags were “garbage” and “hypocrisy,” while “hack” and “hypocrite” tied for fourth place with 710 votes. Gamers have also attacked the book on the Barnes & Noble Web site.
Many of the reviewers admit that they have not read Ms. Lawrence’s book.
As one Amazon user put it: “I know all about this book but have never fully read it. Why? Due to the overwhelming backlash, I have no choice but to agree with the 1 star ratings. The rumors are rampant that this book was poorly written and poorly researched. So without verifying the contents myself — I give it a 1 star. Good thing video games aren’t judged in this manner — whew!!!”
On Friday “The Cult of Perfection” was ranked the 346,106th best-selling book on Amazon. Mass Effect, by contrast, has been a hit, selling more than 1.6 million copies since November. An Amazon spokeswoman said the site would soon begin to remove reviews written by users who had clearly not read the book.
In an interview on Friday, Ms. Lawrence said that since the controversy over her remarks erupted she had watched someone play the game for about two and a half hours. “I recognize that I misspoke,” she said. “I really regret saying that, and now that I’ve seen the game and seen the sex scenes it’s kind of a joke.
“Before the show I had asked somebody about what they had heard, and they had said it’s like pornography,” she added. “But it’s not like pornography. I’ve seen episodes of ‘Lost’ that are more sexually explicit.”
Electronic Arts, the giant publisher that owns Mass Effect, has asked Fox News for a correction. A Fox News spokesman would say only that Electronic Arts had been offered a chance to appear on the channel. An Electronic Arts spokesman said the company had not yet decided whether to accept the offer.
By telephone from Edmonton, Alberta, Ray Muzyka, the medical doctor who is chief executive of BioWare, the Electronic Arts studio that made Mass Effect, said: “We’re hurt. We believe in video games as an art form, and on behalf of the 120 people who poured their blood and tears into this game over three years, we’re just really hurt that someone would misrepresent the game without even playing it. All we can hope for is that people who actually play our games will see the truth.”
/off topic
bugmenot? think nyt been free to view for aleast a year? doesn't ask me to log in when I view the archives.
Fox is just going to play the same shit with EA. completely ignore points made by the gamers and go back to their panel of idiots, declare how it should of gotten AO rating, won't be bringing the game home to their child, chest thump, and pray to god.
Crap like this just feeds on well meaning but ignorant people. It's odd to us but there's lots of folks out there who's only information about video games is stupid reports about them on mainstream television channels. FN is exploiting their ignorance by feeding them shocking but completely falsified information. Trouble is most of these people will never see that Times article or hear about the Internet backlash and go on thinking the misinformation is true.
It's not like it matters, even a little. The reaction of anyone in the target demographics to the clips they showed on FOX is "wow, that game looks awesome."
I mean, it sucks that they are sleazy as hell and don't care about accuracy, but to suggest that they actually have power over anything is kinda silly.
It's not like it matters, even a little. The reaction of anyone in the target demographics to the clips they showed on FOX is "wow, that game looks awesome."
I mean, it sucks that they are sleazy as hell and don't care about accuracy, but to suggest that they actually have power over anything is kinda silly.
no, shit like this does make a difference, believe it or not. My neighbor wouldn't buy her son a nintendo DS when they came out because she saw a news report about how you could talk to strangers on it and how predators would be using them to find children over the internet (no clue if it was on Fox).
She didn't buy him one until I explained to her that you had to be 100 feet of somebody, that you had to already have pictochat open, that you couldn't call someone's attention, and even then I had to give her a live demonstration.
Yeah, it won't bring mass effect's sales down dramatically. they won't see hundreds of thousands of people stop buying the game. But certain people will see this and honestly refrain from buying it because "I hear that game has porn in it."
Well, even then, it's not so much a worry about it hitting sales. It's also a matter of taking a game that is pushing the envelope of storytelling in gaming in one of the most mature and sophisticated ways that this generation has seen (at least in a very long time, or longer), and just taking a straight shit on it.
Sales won't go down, sure, and they're already fantastic. But it's still taking a fine piece of work and, without even looking into it, just calling it a piece of trash.
Well, even then, it's not so much a worry about it hitting sales. It's also a matter of taking a game that is pushing the envelope of storytelling in gaming in one of the most mature and sophisticated ways that this generation has seen (at least in a very long time, or longer), and just taking a straight shit on it.
Sales won't go down, sure, and they're already fantastic. But it's still taking a fine piece of work and, without even looking into it, just calling it a piece of trash.
It happens. Several people think Citizen Kane is boring as hell, but have never watched a second of it. Simply because family guy said so.
Of course, I think that's wrong as well, but I was merely commenting that it's wrong to assume that this will never deter sales. It will, just not in staggering numbers.
Newspapers, Newschannels and the like should have to go through a test to make sure they know what the fuck they are talking about before spouting their bullshit, this is like the DOOM thing when the papers reported that the aim of the game was to hang babies on the wall and then torture them with chainsaws...
Basically this meant they got a few screenshots/half assed info about the game then decided to make their own plot and game dichtonomy up about what was happening in the pictures because they knew they couldn't write...
"This game is shocking!! Horrific!! We haven't a clue what's going on!"
One day a company is going to be closed down or fined all because a newspaper or newschannel decided to make up a bunch of half assed reporting bullshit and it's going to create such a big fuss the only way to relieve the pressure will be to punish that company.
I don't remember saying anything about Censorship, I said newspapers and newschannels should hire people who know what they are talking about, where did you get the government from...
I said they should do a test, to make sure they know what they are talking about, like you do a test to drive a car, they do a test to write about videogames in the mass media without making a complete balls up and creating hysteria.
You know what happens when you let an organization handle giving out permission for freedom of press?
At best, rampant corruption, at worst, dystopia.
I don't think he was suggesting a central licensing organization, but that each media outlet should have the integrity to carefully find the best people for any given job.
You know what happens when you let an organization handle giving out permission for freedom of press?
At best, rampant corruption, at worst, dystopia.
I don't think he was suggesting a central licensing organization, but that each media outlet should have the integrity to carefully find the best people for any given job.
It's not like it matters, even a little. The reaction of anyone in the target demographics to the clips they showed on FOX is "wow, that game looks awesome."
I mean, it sucks that they are sleazy as hell and don't care about accuracy, but to suggest that they actually have power over anything is kinda silly.
no, shit like this does make a difference, believe it or not. My neighbor wouldn't buy her son a nintendo DS when they came out because she saw a news report about how you could talk to strangers on it and how predators would be using them to find children over the internet (no clue if it was on Fox).
She didn't buy him one until I explained to her that you had to be 100 feet of somebody, that you had to already have pictochat open, that you couldn't call someone's attention, and even then I had to give her a live demonstration.
Yeah, it won't bring mass effect's sales down dramatically. they won't see hundreds of thousands of people stop buying the game. But certain people will see this and honestly refrain from buying it because "I hear that game has porn in it."
It makes a difference for a very simple reason: The people who see these reports vote. Those "Think of the children" people were a major part of Bush's campaigns, and Hillary Clinton has appealed to them in the past, and likely will again when the cards are down (if she gets the nomination).
More and more restrictive laws have been proposed regarding video games. Remember Wisconsin's proposed surcharge on games to fund the juvenile justice system? Or several states that have failed (in some cases barely) to pass blanket bans on M and AO rated games (Not just to minors)? Or the constant stream of senators or presidential hopefuls talking about a government rating agency to replace the ESRB?
Politics is a game you lose by ignoring people and hoping they go away, because that vocal minority looks like a majority to the people listening.
Politics is a game you lose by ignoring people and hoping they go away, because that vocal minority looks like a majority to the people listening.
Exactly. Consider the eighteenth amendment. A very small number of people rallied to make alcohol illegal and were successful in convincing lawmakers(who drank and continued to drink after the amendment) to make prohibition law. For thirteen years alcohol was illegal in every state. This also gave rise to mob power. Just think, the Corleones might make a comeback bootlegging videogames.
Politics is a game you lose by ignoring people and hoping they go away, because that vocal minority looks like a majority to the people listening.
Exactly. Consider the eighteenth amendment. A very small number of people rallied to make alcohol illegal and were successful in convincing lawmakers(who drank and continued to drink after the amendment) to make prohibition law. For thirteen years alcohol was illegal in every state. This also gave rise to mob power. Just think, the Corleones might make a comeback bootlegging videogames.
Heh, can imagine some guy in a pub going, "Hey, dude, want a copy of GTAIV for PS3? It's good stuff."
EDIT: And then the inevitable "violent games fund terrorism" ad campaign.
corcorigan on
Ad Astra Per Aspera
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augustwhere you come from is goneRegistered Userregular
edited January 2008
I grew up during the Dungeons and Dragons scare. The lesson I learned from that era is that Conservatives will lie, rumormong and gossip anything they want into existance to entertain themselves and to provide themselves with an enemy. See: Salem Witch trials.
EDIT: I also really wouldn't mind EA suing. I mean, if I made something that does not have full frontal nudity, and then some pundit goes on TV and says it does, yeah I'll see your ass in court.
I grew up during the Dungeons and Dragons scare. The lesson I learned from that era is that Conservatives will lie, rumormong and gossip anything they want into existance to entertain themselves and to provide themselves with an enemy. See: Salem Witch trials.
EDIT: I also really wouldn't mind EA suing. I mean, if I made something that does not have full frontal nudity, and then some pundit goes on TV and says it does, yeah I'll see your ass in court.
It would be foolish to exclude prominent liberals from this type of behavior, as there are more of them beating this drum than conservatives.
Centonias on
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augustwhere you come from is goneRegistered Userregular
I don't know how this is so hard to do, that it was easier to complain about my request.
EA Responds to Fox News Report on Mass Effect: "A New Level of Recklessness"
by Chris Remo Jan 23, 2008 5:41pm CST tags: mass effect, fox news, embarrassing, video game industry
Were you sufficiently enraged by the Fox News Channel's recent travesty of journalism revolving around Mass Effect? If not, please go acquaint yourself.
Then, you can read this open letter issued by Jeff Brown, VP of communications at Electronic Arts, the new parent company of Mass Effect developer BioWare. Brown addressed it Fox News' Teri VanHorn and the show she produces, The Live Desk with Martha MacCallum. Brown forwarded the email on to us today.
Brown lists a number of factual errors made by MacCallum, guest Cooper Lawrence, and the members of the invited panel, none of whom had ever played Mass Effect. "EA would like you to set the record straight on a number of errors and misstatements which incorrectly characterize the story and character interactions in Mass Effect," he writes. "The resulting coverage was insulting to the men and women who spent years creating a game which is acclaimed by critics for its high creative standards."
Brown seems understandably incredulous that Mass Effect's relatively tame sexual situations--which one panelist claimed should receive an Adults Only rating--could be panned on Fox. "Do you watch the Fox Network? Do you watch Family Guy? Have you ever seen The OC?" he asks, rather pointedly. "Do you think the sexual situations in Mass Effect are any more graphic than scenes routinely aired on those shows? Do you honestly believe that young people have more exposure to Mass Effect than to those prime time shows?"
Finally, Brown appeals to the station's "sense of fairness"--a sadly tall order for the organization that paints itself as "fair and balanced."
For the full text, continue on:
Teri VanHorn
The Live Desk with Martha MacCallum
Fox News Channel
Ms VanHorn,
I'm writing to request a clarification of serious errors FNC made in a story which aired about the video game Mass Effect. (See attachment) As the parent company of BioWare, the studio which created the game, EA would like you to set the record straight on a number of errors and misstatements which incorrectly characterize the story and character interactions in Mass Effect.
Errors include the following:
* Your headline above the televised story read: "New videogame shows full digital nudity and sex."
o Fact: Mass Effect does not include explicit or frontal nudity. Love scenes in non-interactive sequences include side and profile shots - a vantage frequently used in many prime-time television shows. It's also worth noting that the game requires players to develop complex relationships before characters can become intimate and players can chose to avoid the love scenes altogether.
* FNC voice-over reporter says: "You'll see full digital nudity and the ability for players to engage in graphic sex."
o Fact: Sex scenes in Mass Effect are not graphic. These scenes are very similar to sex sequences frequently seen on network television in prime time.
* FNC reporter says: "Critics say Mass Effect is being marketed to kids and teenagers."
o Fact: That is flat out false. Mass Effect and all related marketing has been reviewed by the Entertainment Software Rating Board (ESRB) and rated Mature - appropriate for players 17-years and older. ESRB routinely counsels retailers on requesting proof of age in selling M-rated titles and the system has been lauded by members of Congress and the Federal Trade Commission. In practical terms, the ratings work as well or better than those used for warning viewers about television content.
* Other sources used in the segment made similar incorrect statements about the game. Judging by the inaccuracy of their comments, they have had zero experience with Mass Effect and are largely ignorant about videogames, the people who play them, and the ESRB system that governs their ratings and sales.
>[? The resulting coverage was insulting to the men and women who spent years creating a game which is acclaimed by critics for its high creative standards. As video games continue to take audiences away from television, we expect to see more TV news stories warning parents about the corrupting influence of interactive entertainment. But this represents a new level of recklessness.
Do you watch the Fox Network? Do you watch Family Guy? Have you ever seen The OC? Do you think the sexual situations in Mass Effect are any more graphic than scenes routinely aired on those shows? Do you honestly believe that young people have more exposure to Mass Effect than to those prime time shows?
This isn't a legal threat; it's an appeal to your sense of fairness. We're asking FNC to correct the record on Mass Effect.
Sincerely,
Jeff Brown
Vice President of Communications Electronic Arts, Inc.
I don't know how this is so hard to do, that it was easier to complain about my request.
EA Responds to Fox News Report on Mass Effect: "A New Level of Recklessness"
by Chris Remo Jan 23, 2008 5:41pm CST tags: mass effect, fox news, embarrassing, video game industry
Were you sufficiently enraged by the Fox News Channel's recent travesty of journalism revolving around Mass Effect? If not, please go acquaint yourself.
Then, you can read this open letter issued by Jeff Brown, VP of communications at Electronic Arts, the new parent company of Mass Effect developer BioWare. Brown addressed it Fox News' Teri VanHorn and the show she produces, The Live Desk with Martha MacCallum. Brown forwarded the email on to us today.
Brown lists a number of factual errors made by MacCallum, guest Cooper Lawrence, and the members of the invited panel, none of whom had ever played Mass Effect. "EA would like you to set the record straight on a number of errors and misstatements which incorrectly characterize the story and character interactions in Mass Effect," he writes. "The resulting coverage was insulting to the men and women who spent years creating a game which is acclaimed by critics for its high creative standards."
Brown seems understandably incredulous that Mass Effect's relatively tame sexual situations--which one panelist claimed should receive an Adults Only rating--could be panned on Fox. "Do you watch the Fox Network? Do you watch Family Guy? Have you ever seen The OC?" he asks, rather pointedly. "Do you think the sexual situations in Mass Effect are any more graphic than scenes routinely aired on those shows? Do you honestly believe that young people have more exposure to Mass Effect than to those prime time shows?"
Finally, Brown appeals to the station's "sense of fairness"--a sadly tall order for the organization that paints itself as "fair and balanced."
For the full text, continue on:
Teri VanHorn
The Live Desk with Martha MacCallum
Fox News Channel
Ms VanHorn,
I'm writing to request a clarification of serious errors FNC made in a story which aired about the video game Mass Effect. (See attachment) As the parent company of BioWare, the studio which created the game, EA would like you to set the record straight on a number of errors and misstatements which incorrectly characterize the story and character interactions in Mass Effect.
Errors include the following:
* Your headline above the televised story read: "New videogame shows full digital nudity and sex."
o Fact: Mass Effect does not include explicit or frontal nudity. Love scenes in non-interactive sequences include side and profile shots - a vantage frequently used in many prime-time television shows. It's also worth noting that the game requires players to develop complex relationships before characters can become intimate and players can chose to avoid the love scenes altogether.
* FNC voice-over reporter says: "You'll see full digital nudity and the ability for players to engage in graphic sex."
o Fact: Sex scenes in Mass Effect are not graphic. These scenes are very similar to sex sequences frequently seen on network television in prime time.
* FNC reporter says: "Critics say Mass Effect is being marketed to kids and teenagers."
o Fact: That is flat out false. Mass Effect and all related marketing has been reviewed by the Entertainment Software Rating Board (ESRB) and rated Mature - appropriate for players 17-years and older. ESRB routinely counsels retailers on requesting proof of age in selling M-rated titles and the system has been lauded by members of Congress and the Federal Trade Commission. In practical terms, the ratings work as well or better than those used for warning viewers about television content.
* Other sources used in the segment made similar incorrect statements about the game. Judging by the inaccuracy of their comments, they have had zero experience with Mass Effect and are largely ignorant about videogames, the people who play them, and the ESRB system that governs their ratings and sales.
>[? The resulting coverage was insulting to the men and women who spent years creating a game which is acclaimed by critics for its high creative standards. As video games continue to take audiences away from television, we expect to see more TV news stories warning parents about the corrupting influence of interactive entertainment. But this represents a new level of recklessness.
Do you watch the Fox Network? Do you watch Family Guy? Have you ever seen The OC? Do you think the sexual situations in Mass Effect are any more graphic than scenes routinely aired on those shows? Do you honestly believe that young people have more exposure to Mass Effect than to those prime time shows?
This isn't a legal threat; it's an appeal to your sense of fairness. We're asking FNC to correct the record on Mass Effect.
Sincerely,
Jeff Brown
Vice President of Communications Electronic Arts, Inc.
Would have been nice to have in the OP.
The original Fox News clips were gold though. The follow up Amazon spam on her books made it so much better. The story after the story is very entertaining.
What really gets me is that she said a study claims that kids can't tell the difference between what they see on the games they play and real life.
How old were these kids? Honestly, kids can have abstract thoughts (though not more than children age 10-13 can) from ages 7 and 8, so this is kind of offensive. I felt sad because I read on her biography (on her website) that she had a Masters Degree in Developmental Psychology. Hell, I've underestimated what some of my cognitive-defficient patients could do and regret it. Granted, I have no idea if they (kids with mental retardation) can differenciate a game from real life, but underestimating kids with average intelligence can't be good.
As a psychologist, I don't like her too much. And I couldn't care any less about what she said about the game she didn't play. Though my respect toward her went up when I read she apologized for badmouthing Mass Effect.
How old were these kids? Honestly, kids can have abstract thoughts (though not more than children age 10-13 can) from ages 7 and 8, so this is kind of offensive. I felt sad because I read on her biography (on her website) that she had a Masters Degree in Developmental Psychology. Hell, I've underestimated what some of my cognitive-defficient patients could do and regret it. Granted, I have no idea if they (kids with mental retardation) can differenciate a game from real life, but underestimating kids with average intelligence can't be good.
Someone linked to the study somewhere. I've followed this discussion on at least two threads here and on a dozen other sites, and I can't find now where the link was, but I'll try a bit and edit if I find it.
I didn't read the report in much detail, but supposedly her conclusions are a bit of a stretch from what the study actually found.
Basically, 87 college students of both genders (average age was 19, so "adolescent boys" is a stretch. Note on numbers, 100 is mentioned in both blogs, but the abstract on the first link says 46 females and 41 males were involved) were interviewed about "heir knowledge of game usage, awareness and evaluation of stereotypes, beliefs about the influences of games on the players, and authority jurisdiction over three different types of games: games with negative male stereotypes, games with negative female stereotypes, and gender-neutral games."
Nothing about their ability to distinguish fantasy from reality, and the general results are that students see video games as harmless. Not having read the 25 page report itself, the linked articles don't even mention a finding of whether they're harmless or not, only that college students in general don't feel harm is being done.
Edit^2: Assuming this is the correct study, and it's not some super-secret study that the University of Maryland psychology department doesn't know it did yet, I think Lawrence used the report the same way she used the game. Somebody told her about it before the show, and she didn't actually have any idea what she was talking about.
Politics is a game you lose by ignoring people and hoping they go away, because that vocal minority looks like a majority to the people listening.
Exactly. Consider the eighteenth amendment. A very small number of people rallied to make alcohol illegal and were successful in convincing lawmakers(who drank and continued to drink after the amendment) to make prohibition law. For thirteen years alcohol was illegal in every state. This also gave rise to mob power. Just think, the Corleones might make a comeback bootlegging videogames.
I dread the day I wake up in bed to discover Yoshi's dismembered head laying next to me.
GrimReaper on
PSN | Steam
---
I've got a spare copy of Portal, if anyone wants it message me.
Politics is a game you lose by ignoring people and hoping they go away, because that vocal minority looks like a majority to the people listening.
Exactly. Consider the eighteenth amendment. A very small number of people rallied to make alcohol illegal and were successful in convincing lawmakers(who drank and continued to drink after the amendment) to make prohibition law. For thirteen years alcohol was illegal in every state. This also gave rise to mob power. Just think, the Corleones might make a comeback bootlegging videogames.
Heh, can imagine some guy in a pub going, "Hey, dude, want a copy of GTAIV for PS3? It's good stuff."
Coming from an Italian American family that immigrated here six months after the 18th amendment was passed to set up a completely legitimate drug store near Detroit (which for completely legitimate reasons had its own dock and two fast boats with Canadian markings), this is exactly what would happen in the unlikely chance violent games were outright banned. Any time in history that citizens have been denied something, either by ban, rationing, or shortage, organized (and unorganized) crime has been there to provide.
Posts
Have you even played this game? Or any other?This game shows a 2 second shot of a nude butt.Are we born with clothes? I think not.Since when is the human body a sin...after all we were made by god. I have 13 year old that I dont let play M rated games.Yes I watch while my child is playing.the report would have been good if it told the truth but it did not.
Hahaha, nice try.
facepalm.jpg
Wii: 5024 6786 2934 2806 | Steam/XBL: Arcibi | FFXI: Arcibi / Bahamut
I see someone's sarcasm detector is malfunctioning.
The more and more I research the study the more I don't understand Professor Killen. I mean, the study consisted of roughly 80 college kids, who were shown images of games, and asked if the stereotypes in the images could ever harm them or other people.
How is that a rational basis for saying adolescents don't understand that stereotypes are negative?
I'd like to update my article with more info on the details of the study, but at this point I'm not sure if it is worth it. Damage is done. We won. Solidarity and so forth.
The NYT article is awesome, I'm just upset that they didn't focus on Cooper misquoting studies at all
-PSN&360&steam: dei2anged
/off topic
bugmenot? think nyt been free to view for aleast a year? doesn't ask me to log in when I view the archives.
Fox is just going to play the same shit with EA. completely ignore points made by the gamers and go back to their panel of idiots, declare how it should of gotten AO rating, won't be bringing the game home to their child, chest thump, and pray to god.
PSN: super_emu
Xbox360 Gamertag: Emuchop
I mean, it sucks that they are sleazy as hell and don't care about accuracy, but to suggest that they actually have power over anything is kinda silly.
no, shit like this does make a difference, believe it or not. My neighbor wouldn't buy her son a nintendo DS when they came out because she saw a news report about how you could talk to strangers on it and how predators would be using them to find children over the internet (no clue if it was on Fox).
She didn't buy him one until I explained to her that you had to be 100 feet of somebody, that you had to already have pictochat open, that you couldn't call someone's attention, and even then I had to give her a live demonstration.
Yeah, it won't bring mass effect's sales down dramatically. they won't see hundreds of thousands of people stop buying the game. But certain people will see this and honestly refrain from buying it because "I hear that game has porn in it."
Sales won't go down, sure, and they're already fantastic. But it's still taking a fine piece of work and, without even looking into it, just calling it a piece of trash.
Steam ID: slashx000______Twitter: @bill_at_zeboyd______ Facebook: Zeboyd Games
It happens. Several people think Citizen Kane is boring as hell, but have never watched a second of it. Simply because family guy said so.
Of course, I think that's wrong as well, but I was merely commenting that it's wrong to assume that this will never deter sales. It will, just not in staggering numbers.
Dunno, it asked me to log in before I could see the article, and I have the bugmenot firefox extension, so it's not like it's much of a hassle.
Basically this meant they got a few screenshots/half assed info about the game then decided to make their own plot and game dichtonomy up about what was happening in the pictures because they knew they couldn't write...
"This game is shocking!! Horrific!! We haven't a clue what's going on!"
One day a company is going to be closed down or fined all because a newspaper or newschannel decided to make up a bunch of half assed reporting bullshit and it's going to create such a big fuss the only way to relieve the pressure will be to punish that company.
Whats terrible about hiring people who know what they are talking about, to work on a news station or in a newspaper?
Giving full censorship rights of the media to a (I assume you mean) government agency?
George Orwell called, he wants his dystopia back.
I said they should do a test, to make sure they know what they are talking about, like you do a test to drive a car, they do a test to write about videogames in the mass media without making a complete balls up and creating hysteria.
At best, rampant corruption, at worst, dystopia.
I don't think he was suggesting a central licensing organization, but that each media outlet should have the integrity to carefully find the best people for any given job.
Exactly. 8-)
It makes a difference for a very simple reason: The people who see these reports vote. Those "Think of the children" people were a major part of Bush's campaigns, and Hillary Clinton has appealed to them in the past, and likely will again when the cards are down (if she gets the nomination).
More and more restrictive laws have been proposed regarding video games. Remember Wisconsin's proposed surcharge on games to fund the juvenile justice system? Or several states that have failed (in some cases barely) to pass blanket bans on M and AO rated games (Not just to minors)? Or the constant stream of senators or presidential hopefuls talking about a government rating agency to replace the ESRB?
Politics is a game you lose by ignoring people and hoping they go away, because that vocal minority looks like a majority to the people listening.
You're just another agent trying to bring about the dystopia, aren't you?
Exactly. Consider the eighteenth amendment. A very small number of people rallied to make alcohol illegal and were successful in convincing lawmakers(who drank and continued to drink after the amendment) to make prohibition law. For thirteen years alcohol was illegal in every state. This also gave rise to mob power. Just think, the Corleones might make a comeback bootlegging videogames.
Heh, can imagine some guy in a pub going, "Hey, dude, want a copy of GTAIV for PS3? It's good stuff."
EDIT: And then the inevitable "violent games fund terrorism" ad campaign.
EDIT: I also really wouldn't mind EA suing. I mean, if I made something that does not have full frontal nudity, and then some pundit goes on TV and says it does, yeah I'll see your ass in court.
It would be foolish to exclude prominent liberals from this type of behavior, as there are more of them beating this drum than conservatives.
Throw Tipper in there to I guess.
DYSTOPIA
Would have been nice to have in the OP.
The original Fox News clips were gold though. The follow up Amazon spam on her books made it so much better. The story after the story is very entertaining.
How old were these kids? Honestly, kids can have abstract thoughts (though not more than children age 10-13 can) from ages 7 and 8, so this is kind of offensive. I felt sad because I read on her biography (on her website) that she had a Masters Degree in Developmental Psychology. Hell, I've underestimated what some of my cognitive-defficient patients could do and regret it. Granted, I have no idea if they (kids with mental retardation) can differenciate a game from real life, but underestimating kids with average intelligence can't be good.
As a psychologist, I don't like her too much. And I couldn't care any less about what she said about the game she didn't play. Though my respect toward her went up when I read she apologized for badmouthing Mass Effect.
Someone linked to the study somewhere. I've followed this discussion on at least two threads here and on a dozen other sites, and I can't find now where the link was, but I'll try a bit and edit if I find it.
I didn't read the report in much detail, but supposedly her conclusions are a bit of a stretch from what the study actually found.
EDIT: Here we go.
http://vgresearcher.wordpress.com/2008/01/23/social-evaluations-of-stereotypes-in-video-games-brenick-et-al-2007/#more-29
http://www.destructoid.com/blogs/pierrerodriguez/u-of-maryland-s-quot-new-quot-study-on-videogames-66365.phtml
And general press:
http://www.hollandsentinel.com/stories/020905/ent_020905067.shtml
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A1421-2005Feb5.html
(Note the headline "Students see violent video game images as harmless, study finds")
Basically, 87 college students of both genders (average age was 19, so "adolescent boys" is a stretch. Note on numbers, 100 is mentioned in both blogs, but the abstract on the first link says 46 females and 41 males were involved) were interviewed about "heir knowledge of game usage, awareness and evaluation of stereotypes, beliefs about the influences of games on the players, and authority jurisdiction over three different types of games: games with negative male stereotypes, games with negative female stereotypes, and gender-neutral games."
Nothing about their ability to distinguish fantasy from reality, and the general results are that students see video games as harmless. Not having read the 25 page report itself, the linked articles don't even mention a finding of whether they're harmless or not, only that college students in general don't feel harm is being done.
Edit^2: Assuming this is the correct study, and it's not some super-secret study that the University of Maryland psychology department doesn't know it did yet, I think Lawrence used the report the same way she used the game. Somebody told her about it before the show, and she didn't actually have any idea what she was talking about.
I dread the day I wake up in bed to discover Yoshi's dismembered head laying next to me.
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I've got a spare copy of Portal, if anyone wants it message me.
Coming from an Italian American family that immigrated here six months after the 18th amendment was passed to set up a completely legitimate drug store near Detroit (which for completely legitimate reasons had its own dock and two fast boats with Canadian markings), this is exactly what would happen in the unlikely chance violent games were outright banned. Any time in history that citizens have been denied something, either by ban, rationing, or shortage, organized (and unorganized) crime has been there to provide.