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[WoW] Hunters: Misdirect your attention to this thread.

goodtimesgoodtimes Registered User regular
edited February 2009 in MMO Extravaganza
Welcome to the Hunter thread.
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Images used with permission from the artist at http://www.wyndforge.com/WOW/gallery.html Thanks Wyndforge!

What the hell is a hunter?

From the Official WoW website:
Hunters are deadly marksmen, capable of bringing their enemies down from a distance with bows or rifles. Skilled survivalists, they can track enemies or lay traps to damage and entrap their foes. Hunters also possess a primal connection to the beasts of Azeroth, capable of taming and training them to keep as loyal guardians. Wearing light to medium armor, hunters can also dual wield weapons in combat, fighting beside their pets in battle.
The Hunter is a vicious damage dealer. With their ability to pull extremely well and hit monsters hard from far away, they certainly help take down monsters more quickly. Their pets add to the damage count and can aid somewhat in managing monster aggro. The variety of traps allows the Hunter to control crowds to an extent, as well. The combination of their extreme range, decent damage, and trap capability, Hunters are the perfect pullers for any group.

Whats it all mean ?

While Hunters have some good crowd control abilities, limited group buffs, and are capable of debuffing, their primary focus is ranged dps.

Who's a Hunter?

Currently there are seven races available to the hunter class, four Horde and three Alliance.

Which race is the best for a Hunter?

The decision on “The best hunter race for Alliance / Horde” is one being argued back and forth all over the internet. The primary issue in the discussion is the viability of the various racial bonus’s. There will never be a clear answer for everyone based on every playing style. Like every other class select your race on criteria that are important for you, whether it is looks , character voice, dance animation , how easy on the eyes, or a specific racial ability that will benefit your primary interest in the game like PVP or PVE. Bottom line, there are no wrong choices here apart from say choosing Orc when you want to play with your four friends who are alliance.

Races available and their bonus’s applicable to the Hunter class:

Alliance:

Night Elf: Night elves are a very popular hunter race for the alliance. Their ability to Shadowmeld (Stealth while remaining still) coupled with a pet cat makes them them the ultimate ambush predator. In the past this ability was very powerful since hunters were able to wind up a powerful attack while stealthed and wouldn’t become visible until their shot went off. This was changed a few patches back to unstealth the hunter as soon as he started his cast. Also Night Elves have Quickness (increases dodge) which stacks with Aspect of the Monkey, and a 50% faster travel speed back to their body in ghost form.

Dranei: The newest race available to Alliance Hunters with The Burning Crusade expansion. Dranei Hunters provide a passive free +1% hit buff to their party members within 30 yards along with a mana free heal over time spell called Gift of the Naru, very convenient for leveling and soloing difficult elites.

Dwarf: Stoneform which removes and provides immunity to poison, disease, and bleed effects for eight seconds, very handy to counter the snare effect of rogue poisons in PVP. Dwarves also gain a 1% critical strike chance with guns , always nice for PvP and PvE.

Horde:


Blood Elf: The Horde’s newest hunter available to players with The Burning Crusade expansion. Blood Elves are the “eye candy” of the horde. Their best racial for a Hunter is Arcane Torrent, a 2 sec silence to all casters within eight yards of the Hunter. Not impressive sounding until you think about how often casters will attempt to move too close to us to hit with our ranged weapons.

Troll: Trolls have a +1% crit bonus with bows, an increased health regeneration bonus by 10%. Also allows 10% of normal health regenerate during combat. 5% damage bonus to Beasts. And the Ability , Berserking which increases attack and casting speed for 10 seconds. Speed is raised by 10% at full health, increasing as health is lost to a maximum bonus of 30%. 3 minute cooldown.

Tauren: Tauren have a 5% bonus to their maximum health and the ability to Warstomp which stuns up to 5 enemies within the area for 2 seconds. 2 minute cooldown. Very useful to allow the hunter to get away from enemies and resume ranged attacks.

Orc:
Orc’s have a number of abilities useful to the Hunter . Passively they have a +5% bonus to pet damage which synergizes well with a Hunter that specializes in pet damage. Also the racial Hardiness which increases the Orc’s resistance to stun effects by 15% gives the orc an edge against classes like the Rogue who depend on stuns to beat their opponent. Their Bloodfury ability increases attack power and by an amount based on level/class for 15 seconds, and decreases healing done to the user by 50% for 25 seconds. The cooldown is 2 minutes. This ability stacks with other stat boosting abilities like The Beast Within to do a large amount of damage in a short amount of time.

So whats all this about pets?

The Warlock and the Hunter are the two classes in WoW that have a close relationship with their pets. Our constant companions, our pets accompany us on our adventures in Azeroth. Unlike the demonic summoning Warlocks, Hunters are able to go out into the world and tame a wild creature chosen specifically for it’s abilities. In fact many pet abilities are only available to the hunter after he has tamed that wild creature allowing the hunter to gain his abilities from the natural world. Pets are arranged by different “families” with their own unique abilities. For instance a pet Turtle will naturally have much more armor than a pet cat yet of course being a turtle, would naturally move slower. Pets also allow a way to distinguish the hunter from those around them with a myriad array of unique skins and models. This way a Hunter can find just the right pet with the right abilities to suit his own playing style. The amazing amount of customization makes a post such as this inadequate to talk about everything there is to know about pets. However generally pets will fall into a few categories.

Tanking: A pet chosen and trained to hold aggro and absorb damage letting the hunter deal ranged damage unmolested.

Damage: A pet selected and trained to do damage , duh! Not as able to take as much abuse as a tanking pet yet acting as an additional damage source when grouped with a designated tank in a raid or group.

Niche: A niche pet is a pet selected for a specific limited reason. Maybe it has been trained with special resistances for a certain boss fight, or has an ability that synergies with the hunter ex: Scorpid poison masking a viper sting.

Alot of Hunters will select a pet based on looks and that’s a very popular reason to grab a pet out in the world. Regardless of whatever reason you tame a pet out there do not be surprised if you grow attached to one or three! You guys will depend on each other. I know of hunters keeping their first pet tamed at level 10 all the way to 70 because they couldn’t bear (no pun intended) the idea of abandoning their faithful little crab. Personally, my pet boar has been with me since level 24 and I would never think to give him up! Just remember though we have the abilty to only have 3 pets , one active and two safe in our stable so unlike Pokemon, we can’t collect them all.

Is it hard to level a Hunter?

No not at all! Alot of Hunters will agree with the statement that it’s very easy to level as a Hunter. Is it the easiest class to play ? I don’t really think so but that’s up to you to decide. I will agree that Hunters are very easy to play , and hard to play well. The same could be said for every class.

Whats a Huntard?

Something to avoid at all costs!

A huntard is as you might have guessed a combination of the words Hunter and Retard. I’m not really sure if that’s all that fair to the mentally challenged out there so lets be sure we stop bringing retards down.

Some things to avoid while playing a hunter.

1. Just because you CAN use every weapon in the game excepting maces doesn’t mean it is ideal for a hunter. A weapon like a sword or an axe for a hunter is basically another piece of his armor and used pretty much to just hang out on his back, look cool, and provide a stat bonus to his primary attack , which is his ranged weapon. A lot of classes can make better use of that damage from that sword/axe/dagger.

2. Practice and learn to use your crowd control abilities and when you feel comfortable with how they work offer your services to the group. In the hands of a knowledgeable hunter our traps are a very effective method of crowd control. You can level all the way to 70 and never use them and then be called upon to use these in a difficult instance and not understanding their nuances and technique can cause a lot of frustration for the group towards you, being able to use these traps to your benefit will get you a reputation with your groups as an asset to be invited again.

3. Keep an eye on healers and other cloth wearing classes. Usually they are near you since you are attacking at range and you are in a position to assist them should they pull aggro or a tank otherwise lose control. Hunters are far from good tanks but our mail armor will let us take a hit or two and a timely stun or our ability to freeze-trap a mob out of commission will save everyone a run back to the instance from the graveyard and earn the appreciation and adoration of your group.

Your informative post has piqued my curiosity, where can I learn more?

Here’s some great MUST visit websites relating to the hunter class with a humble description of the information contained on that site.

Petopia:
http://petopia.brashendeavors.net/index.shtml
A definitive resource on pets with pictures

EJ Shot Rotation
http://elitistjerks.com/f31/t13107-hunter_shot_rotation_illustrated/
The Elitist Jerks Famous shot rotation thesis. Advanced information for raiders. (thanks Stolly)

Cheeky's
http://www.docstoc.com/docs/13143/Cheekys-Hunter-DPS-Spreadsheet
Cheeky's Spreadsheet, How to Min/Max your gear.

Mania's Blog

http://www.maniasarcania.com/index.php
Mania, the Editor of petopia, Has this blog with some great info beyond just pets.

Big Red Kitty
http://www.bigredkitty.net/
Another Blog with alot of good movies of boss encounters from a Hunters perspective. Narrated and very educational.

How to Trap
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3UktrX2tK6w
Chain Trapping Video demo done By Lassirra from Mediveh US

The Hunters Mark
http://www.thehuntersmark.net/
Lassirra's Blog

new sig underconstruction
goodtimes on
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Posts

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    goodtimesgoodtimes Registered User regular
    edited January 2008
    Useful macros.

    gimme some more macros and I'll put them up here, also lemme know which are broken. Some will inevitable break patch to patch and some of you are too smart for your own good and can improve them. I will keep them updated and will test them as much as I can. Just don't expect EJ style analysis on Dr. Boom from variations from Steady-Auto-KC from me. ok?

    How to copy paste macros into your UI
    1. Use Ctrl-C to copy any highlighted text from this page

    2. Run WoW or switch over to WoW if already running.

    3. Open your macros menu or type /m

    4. Select Macro Icon and name the macro.

    5. Place text in the code box by pressing Ctrl-v.

    6. Drag macro Icon to your bar

    7. Profit?

    Easy Mark- Allows you to cast hunters mark and send your pet in to attack at the same time. Contains a modifier to allow you to mark a target and NOT have your pet attack. Just right click macro to mark and have your pet stay passive.
    #showtooltip Hunter's Mark
    /cast [button:2] Hunter's Mark; Hunter's Mark
    /stopmacro [button:2]
    /petattack

    Lost Pet Bar- If you lose your pet bar and want to get it back use this macro. Must be used out of combat.
    /script if PetActionBarFrame:IsVisible() then PetActionBarFrame:Hide() else PetActionBarFrame:Show() end

    IWINBUTTON Beast within, bloodfury , abacus, and rapidfire all in one button
    #showtooltip Bestial Wrath
    /cast Bestial Wrath
    /stopcasting
    /cast Blood Fury
    /stopcasting
    /use Abacus of Violent Odds
    /stopcasting
    /cast Rapid Fire

    Steady/KC macro that integrates Steady Shot with Kill Command when available
    /cast !Auto shot
    /cast [target=pettarget, exists] Kill command
    /cast Steady shot
    /script UIErrorsFrame:Clear()

    Mouseover Pet Attack send your pet to attack the target you are mousing over
    /petattack [target=mouseover,harm][]



    More to follow...

    goodtimes on
    new sig underconstruction
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    Soviet WaffleSoviet Waffle Registered User regular
    edited January 2008
    You're not. Get out of the forums. While you're at it you should probably cut yourself

    (It's fine to reserve a post if it's for the OP)

    Soviet Waffle on
    League of Legends: Studio
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    exisexis Registered User regular
    edited January 2008
    My hunter is 66. I think I need a new weapon, where should I be looking?

    exis on
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    HamurabiHamurabi MiamiRegistered User regular
    edited January 2008
    Reserve a post on not speccing deep Survival in Karazhan gear. :x

    Hamurabi on
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    BrainleechBrainleech 機知に富んだコメントはここにあります Registered User regular
    edited January 2008
    About time you made this about I was going to do my first new thread

    So I am going to make a pvp pet for my hunter. according to someone I talked to back being a bm pvp for some games they said it's easier to have a second pet for pvp and give them tons of health, things that like Cobra Reflexes, and if you have any things left for it try getting various resists

    Brainleech on
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    DhalphirDhalphir don't you open that trapdoor you're a fool if you dareRegistered User regular
    edited January 2008
    exis wrote: »
    My hunter is 66. I think I need a new weapon, where should I be looking?

    Better to just get to 70 and run slabs for the Sonic Spear.

    Dhalphir on
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    EWomEWom Registered User regular
    edited January 2008
    So I'm 65, using the Mag`Har quest bow out of Hellfire, and looking for a weapon upgrade.

    I really don't want to use guns, because I don't like them. I prefer bows, but will also use crossbows. Guns just don't fit in with what my idea of my character should be. I know there are a lot of good guns, blah blah blah, I'm gimping myself by not using them etcetera, but anyone know of a good bow upgrade in my future?

    I see that a decent crossbow drops out of Slave Pens, problem is though, getting a slave pens group. I've gotten 1 pug for that instance, in 3 levels of constant LFG for Coilfang instances. :\

    I'm BM spec if that makes any difference. I may just have to break down and use the gun from the nagrand quests though :\

    EWom on
    Whether they find a life there or not, I think Jupiter should be called an enemy planet.
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    DhalphirDhalphir don't you open that trapdoor you're a fool if you dareRegistered User regular
    edited January 2008
    EWom wrote: »
    So I'm 65, using the Mag`Har quest bow out of Hellfire, and looking for a weapon upgrade.

    I really don't want to use guns, because I don't like them. I prefer bows, but will also use crossbows. Guns just don't fit in with what my idea of my character should be. I know there are a lot of good guns, blah blah blah, I'm gimping myself by not using them etcetera, but anyone know of a good bow upgrade in my future?

    I see that a decent crossbow drops out of Slave Pens, problem is though, getting a slave pens group. I've gotten 1 pug for that instance, in 3 levels of constant LFG for Coilfang instances. :\

    I'm BM spec if that makes any difference. I may just have to break down and use the gun from the nagrand quests though :\

    the s1 bow is a good choice when you hit 70, either that or the Steelhawk Crossbow from Attumen.

    Dhalphir on
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    goodtimesgoodtimes Registered User regular
    edited January 2008
    Brainleech wrote: »
    About time you made this about I was going to do my first new thread

    So I am going to make a pvp pet for my hunter. according to someone I talked to back being a bm pvp for some games they said it's easier to have a second pet for pvp and give them tons of health, things that like Cobra Reflexes, and if you have any things left for it try getting various resists

    Max out Avoidance it cuts down on damage an amazing amount, and when I'm speccing for resists for PvP shadow and frost is the way to go. Wouldn't pvp without Avoidance maxed personally.

    goodtimes on
    new sig underconstruction
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    KajustaKajusta Registered User regular
    edited January 2008
    Oh man, I just got Bloodseeker from the level 50whatever AV quest and sweet jesus.

    I think I am in love.

    Kajusta on
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    XBL
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    ArthilArthil Registered User regular
    edited January 2008
    I find it amusing how someone mentioned Arena and Raiding upgrades to someone who is Level 65. Around that level I had to use a gun, I got the one from Blood Furnace, though you could also pick up a Gun Blade from the AH if it isn't too pricey. What I did when I got to 68 was quest in Shadowmoon and if you prefer bows I suggest doing this. There is a green bow reward there I believe... but most importantly is this: Lohn'goron, Bow of the Torn-Heart. You get that bow through the Cipher of Damnation quest chain, which starts from an Earthen Ring person in Shadowmoon Village, or Wildhammer Stronghold. Long quest chain, but it was worth it.

    I'd also like some advice on my hunter actually, I got him to 70 not very long ago... done some crafting to make him a few things but I'd like to know what I should aim for. I'm not too sure of the differences between gear suited for Marksmanship and gear suited for Beast Mastery, which is my current spec. Heres a link to my armory so you can have a look: http://armory.worldofwarcraft.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Scarlet+Crusade&n=Sinendilnil

    Arthil on
    PSN: Honishimo Steam UPlay: Arthil
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    -SPI--SPI- Osaka, JapanRegistered User regular
    edited January 2008
    Instead of the bow I actually took the dagger from that questline and combined it with this one from another long SMV questline. Very nice combo if you want to be a little different (which is one of the main reasons I took them) and nice on a MM hunter if you use double +30 int enchants.

    -SPI- on
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    Munkus BeaverMunkus Beaver You don't have to attend every argument you are invited to. Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPA regular
    edited January 2008
    Man, I just realized that I hadn't trained my 70 skills on my hunter yet D:

    Munkus Beaver on
    Humor can be dissected as a frog can, but dies in the process.
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    DhalphirDhalphir don't you open that trapdoor you're a fool if you dareRegistered User regular
    edited January 2008
    how long has he been 70

    Dhalphir on
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    PratleyPratley Registered User regular
    edited January 2008
    At 66 you should get the axe from the ring of blood and the elekk gun from the nesingwary quest. I used both until 70 when I got the Gyro Balanced Khorium Destroyer and the season 3 axe. Wolfslayer rifle/prince bow next for me!

    also yay @ my thread title being used :^:

    Pratley on
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    MayGodHaveMercyMayGodHaveMercy Registered User regular
    edited January 2008
    Pratley wrote: »
    At 66 you should get the axe from the ring of blood and the elekk gun from the nesingwary quest. I used both until 70 when I got the Gyro Balanced Khorium Destroyer and the season 3 axe. Wolfslayer rifle/prince bow next for me!

    also yay @ my thread title being used :^:

    Hemet's Elekk Gun is awful. Far too fast to even be given consideration. The Gunblade is a better weapon. Also, for weapons, you can do the quest for Terokk's Quill at level 65 or 66, I believe. If I remember correctly, it's a quest reward for Mana-Tombs. Or possibly Sethekk Halls, in which case it's level 68. Also, at 70, run Shadow Labs for Sonic Spear, or run Mechanar for Stellaris x 2. Or you can be like every other newly 70 hunter, and wield Crystalforged War Axe, which can be bought for around 50g.

    MayGodHaveMercy on
    XBL: Mercy XXVI - Steam: Mercy_XXVI - PSN: Mercy XXVI
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    SeptusSeptus Registered User regular
    edited January 2008
    I stopped following the hunter macro change after the recent hotfix, but it still seemed that auto-shot clipping was either totally or mostly gone. That would mean that Hemet's would be just fine.

    Septus on
    PSN: Kurahoshi1
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    RialeRiale I'm a little slow Registered User regular
    edited January 2008
    So I've been gone for a long time, just now getting back into my hunter after a 4-6month break.

    I'm BM specced and still trying to figure out ideal weapon speeds. As far as I've figured out from my forum searching and personal testing:

    Steady Shot is normally a 1.5s cast

    Autoshot needs .5s between specials to fire without clipping

    EXCEPT for a new macro that supposedly removes this time (but we don't know if it will stay around)

    Serpent's Swiftness both reduces the base weapon speed and the Steady shot speed, bringing Steady Shot's cast time to 1.1s.

    So, with all that in mind it looks like the lowest I can go is 1.6s to make room for Steady+Auto. In reality, with lag, this is more like 1.7/1.8. Also, I of course cannot go under 1.5s because I'll start running into the global cooldown. AND, It's probably better to get something more like 1.9 because when imp aspect of the hawk fires (and/or I activate rapid fire) I don't want to be hitting the GCD.

    This places my ideal weapon speed with my current quiver + Serpent's Swiftness at something around 2.4-2.6 I believe.

    Riale on
    33c9nxz.gif
    Steam | XBL: Elazual | Last.fm
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    MayGodHaveMercyMayGodHaveMercy Registered User regular
    edited January 2008
    Septus wrote: »
    I stopped following the hunter macro change after the recent hotfix, but it still seemed that auto-shot clipping was either totally or mostly gone. That would mean that Hemet's would be just fine.

    I'm not a fan. Steady Shot has a set cast time, regardless of weapon speed, and takes weapon damage into account. Slower weapon = bigger Steadies, and multis.

    Extreme examples:

    The formula for SS is Weapon Damage + (RAP x 0.2 + 150), so assuming 2k RAP, that's 550.

    Rifle of the Stoic Guardian - 90 DPS, 1.90 Speed.

    Average wep dmg. 172 + 550 = 722 SS. 481 DPS from SS.

    S2 Xbow - 88 DPS, 3.0 Speed.

    Average wep dmg. 265 + 550 = 815 SS, or 543 DPS from SS.

    MayGodHaveMercy on
    XBL: Mercy XXVI - Steam: Mercy_XXVI - PSN: Mercy XXVI
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    RialeRiale I'm a little slow Registered User regular
    edited January 2008
    But a faster weapon means closer threading between autoshots and less 'dead' time between your steady and autoshot. Unless you're PvPing, the size of the steady shot doesn't really matter, it's your dps. And that's going to improve if you're perfectly threading shots without any dead time.

    Riale on
    33c9nxz.gif
    Steam | XBL: Elazual | Last.fm
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    SeptusSeptus Registered User regular
    edited January 2008
    Riale wrote: »
    But a faster weapon means closer threading between autoshots and less 'dead' time between your steady and autoshot. Unless you're PvPing, the size of the steady shot doesn't really matter, it's your dps. And that's going to improve if you're perfectly threading shots without any dead time.

    If auto-shot and steadyshot are completely disconnected now, I don’t know that this would matter. You'd have white, auto-shot damage separate on the one hand, and steadyshot damage separate on the other. But again, I don't know how the change has ended up.

    Septus on
    PSN: Kurahoshi1
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    MayGodHaveMercyMayGodHaveMercy Registered User regular
    edited January 2008
    Riale wrote: »
    But a faster weapon means closer threading between autoshots and less 'dead' time between your steady and autoshot. Unless you're PvPing, the size of the steady shot doesn't really matter, it's your dps. And that's going to improve if you're perfectly threading shots without any dead time.

    Yeah, less dead time, and tiny autoshots. Quality over Quantity for me, thanks.

    Also, if you have enough dead time, you can use a 1.5:1 rotation, even as BM. If you have the latency and the framerate to pull it off. I don't, unfortunately.

    MayGodHaveMercy on
    XBL: Mercy XXVI - Steam: Mercy_XXVI - PSN: Mercy XXVI
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    RialeRiale I'm a little slow Registered User regular
    edited January 2008
    Riale wrote: »
    But a faster weapon means closer threading between autoshots and less 'dead' time between your steady and autoshot. Unless you're PvPing, the size of the steady shot doesn't really matter, it's your dps. And that's going to improve if you're perfectly threading shots without any dead time.

    Yeah, less dead time, and tiny autoshots. Quality over Quantity for me, thanks.
    But... If the weapon has higher dps, you'll be doing a lot more damage in any non-PvP setting. It's not about 'quality', size of the shot doesn't matter at all. Burst doesn't matter for boss fights, you want sustained dps, which a tight shot threading will get you.


    As far as I've heard the change has basically made it so that the .5s delay between specials and autoshot is gone if you use a certain macro for steadyshots. But, I don't know how reliable this is, if it's gonna stay this way or not.

    Riale on
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    MayGodHaveMercyMayGodHaveMercy Registered User regular
    edited January 2008
    Septus wrote: »
    Riale wrote: »
    But a faster weapon means closer threading between autoshots and less 'dead' time between your steady and autoshot. Unless you're PvPing, the size of the steady shot doesn't really matter, it's your dps. And that's going to improve if you're perfectly threading shots without any dead time.

    If auto-shot and steadyshot are completely disconnected now, I don’t know that this would matter. You'd have white, auto-shot damage separate on the one hand, and steadyshot damage separate on the other. But again, I don't know how the change has ended up.

    I don't really get what you mean by "completely disconnected."

    MayGodHaveMercy on
    XBL: Mercy XXVI - Steam: Mercy_XXVI - PSN: Mercy XXVI
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    MayGodHaveMercyMayGodHaveMercy Registered User regular
    edited January 2008
    Riale wrote: »
    Riale wrote: »
    But a faster weapon means closer threading between autoshots and less 'dead' time between your steady and autoshot. Unless you're PvPing, the size of the steady shot doesn't really matter, it's your dps. And that's going to improve if you're perfectly threading shots without any dead time.

    Yeah, less dead time, and tiny autoshots. Quality over Quantity for me, thanks.
    But... If the weapon has higher dps, you'll be doing a lot more damage in any non-PvP setting. It's not about 'quality', size of the shot doesn't matter at all. Burst doesn't matter for boss fights, you want sustained dps, which a tight shot threading will get you.

    I'm talking equal DPS weapons. Slower Bigger Shots = Smaller Faster Shots. But you're right, I guess. Fast is fine, but it's not better. Not in my opinion, and in my experience. If you can somehow thread perfectly with a 1.5 weapon, I'm happy for you. With my quiver and my sword and my talents, my 3.00 weapon is already a 2.11 weapon. I can't imagine using anything faster than that.

    MayGodHaveMercy on
    XBL: Mercy XXVI - Steam: Mercy_XXVI - PSN: Mercy XXVI
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    SeptusSeptus Registered User regular
    edited January 2008
    By disconnected, I mean how auto-attacks and specials work for melee characters. There is no need whatsoever for meleers to specifically time their specials with their white attacks. If there is no possibility of clipping auto-shots any more, then I would think that auto-shots would just happen in the background, and you could focus solely on the timing of your specials. In which case, "dead-time' for a hunter, if you had some really slow crossbow, wouldn't matter.

    Septus on
    PSN: Kurahoshi1
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    MayGodHaveMercyMayGodHaveMercy Registered User regular
    edited January 2008
    Septus wrote: »
    By disconnected, I mean how auto-attacks and specials work for melee characters. There is no need whatsoever for meleers to specifically time their specials with their white attacks. If there is no possibility of clipping auto-shots any more, then I would think that auto-shots would just happen in the background, and you could focus solely on the timing of your specials. In which case, "dead-time' for a hunter, if you had some really slow crossbow, wouldn't matter.

    Auto-shots don't fire in the background, though. If you're in the middle of a 1.5 SS cast, auto-shots will still hold until the cast is done.

    Also, you guys are right on the weapon speed thing. I'm too used to being MM, with a 1.5:1 rotation, and a slower weapon is better for that. I just recently (last week) switched to BM, and didn't really consider all the factors. Still, I wouldn't want a weapon faster than 2.6, with my current gear (Quiver + Swiftness + Jin'Rohk = 38% speed increase), as I'd have a 1.6 shot timer. Since I manually weave my shots, I can't see that ending well. Not to mention Kill Command, even though it's off the GCD, will push back an autoshot for some stupid reason. Not by a lot, but enough.

    MayGodHaveMercy on
    XBL: Mercy XXVI - Steam: Mercy_XXVI - PSN: Mercy XXVI
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    RialeRiale I'm a little slow Registered User regular
    edited January 2008
    I'm talking equal DPS weapons. Slower Bigger Shots = Smaller Faster Shots. But you're right, I guess. Fast is fine, but it's not better. Not in my opinion, and in my experience. If you can somehow thread perfectly with a 1.5 weapon, I'm happy for you. With my quiver and my sword and my talents, my 3.00 weapon is already a 2.11 weapon. I can't imagine using anything faster than that.
    Assuming equal dps weapons, you're going to get better dps if you're threading perfectly. Of course no one has a perfect connection, so it's more like 1.6/1.7 speed after quiver. Note that this also only works if you're using the macro to remove the .5s delay from autoshot, otherwise it's still 2.0 speed you're aiming for. Your 2.11 speed is perfect, if you're not using the new macro. If you are, you can go lower. Of course, this begins to reduce the effectiveness of rapid fire, but I believe all in all it's a dps upgrade (unless you're going MUCH faster).

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    Soviet WaffleSoviet Waffle Registered User regular
    edited January 2008
    Why would you use Jin'Rohk over the S3 hunter axe?

    Also, can anyone link me to the .5 removing macro? I think I'm going to try that out (RoS is really stupid in Phase 2. Gogo steadies knocking back steadies)

    Soviet Waffle on
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    MayGodHaveMercyMayGodHaveMercy Registered User regular
    edited January 2008
    Why would you use Jin'Rohk over the S3 hunter axe?

    Also, can anyone link me to the .5 removing macro? I think I'm going to try that out (RoS is really stupid in Phase 2. Gogo steadies knocking back steadies)

    See Below:
    SabreMau wrote: »
    I know, it's not as good as the S3 axe, but goddamn is she sexy.
    Considering how our guild's in ZA these days, and how I really don't feel like starting up arena matches for long enough to learn how to PvP and hit 1850 rating, personally I'd call it close enough to S3 for settle for. ;-)


    Well, allow me to break this down for you. I have been cursed - nay, plagued with a complete inability to upgrade my weapons (Ranged & Melee alike) since BC came out. It's been a running joke among my guildmates. I wielded Sonic Spear all the way through Karazhan, Gruul, Magtheridon, and most of SSC and TK. I picked up Steelhawk Crossbow on our first night in Karazhan (and we were one of the first guilds on our server to complete Kara), and finally had to start competing in Arena games to get the S1 crossbow. I quit the game a few short months after obtaining my new crossbow, and came back about a month ago. On our second Zul'Jin kill, his sword dropped. A pally in the guild wanted it (badly) ever since he first laid cursor on it, but he, in a gesture of pure awesome, passed to me out of what I can only imagine was sheer pity. Thus the legend of "HOLY SHIT THAT SWORD YOU HAVE IS AWESOME WHERE IS IT FROM?!" was born. And I refuse to replace Jin'Rohk with the S3 Axe (which I have the points for) until he gets a Jin'Rohk of his own.

    EDIT: as a hunter, you don't need a personal rating to obtain the S3 Axe, and it's only 1000 Arena Points.

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    HamurabiHamurabi MiamiRegistered User regular
    edited January 2008
    Zin'rokh 2.0 disappointed me.

    Though in fairness, maybe I'm underestimating haste.

    Hamurabi on
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    Soviet WaffleSoviet Waffle Registered User regular
    edited January 2008
    You shouldn't have taken it from him, that weapon really is just "ok." Better than Sonic Spear, but not other hunter weapons out there (You'd be better off waiting to get a Trollbane, luck be damned).

    You're not really underestimating haste for Hunters. It used to be awesome back before they nerfed it (You could get a Marks Hunter near a BM speed to use a 1:1 rotation), but after the change it's now just "ok."

    Actually, Sonic Spear is equal if you're benefiting from the hit

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    MayGodHaveMercyMayGodHaveMercy Registered User regular
    edited January 2008
    You shouldn't have taken it from him, that weapon really is just "ok." Better than Sonic Spear, but not other hunter weapons out there (You'd be better off waiting to get a Trollbane, luck be damned).

    You're not really underestimating haste for Hunters. It used to be awesome back before they nerfed it (You could get a Marks Hunter near a BM speed to use a 1:1 rotation), but after the change it's now just "ok."

    Actually, Sonic Spear is equal if you're benefiting from the hit

    I had bad luck with drops. Very bad luck. We'd been clearing Karazhan since early, early BC, and progressing at a good clip, and I never saw a weapon upgrade drop. Not in Kara, not in TK, not in SSC, not in Gruul's Lair, and not in Mag's Lair. I jumped at the chance to get a new weapon, and it was a clear upgrade over Sonic Spear. It wasn't even close, in my opinion. He was happy to pass it to me, and I was happy to take it.

    (Trollbane dropped the next time we ran ZA. Heh.)

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    Soviet WaffleSoviet Waffle Registered User regular
    edited January 2008
    You shouldn't have taken it from him, that weapon really is just "ok." Better than Sonic Spear, but not other hunter weapons out there (You'd be better off waiting to get a Trollbane, luck be damned).

    You're not really underestimating haste for Hunters. It used to be awesome back before they nerfed it (You could get a Marks Hunter near a BM speed to use a 1:1 rotation), but after the change it's now just "ok."

    Actually, Sonic Spear is equal if you're benefiting from the hit

    I had bad luck with drops. Very bad luck. We'd been clearing Karazhan since early, early BC, and progressing at a good clip, and I never saw a weapon upgrade drop. Not in Kara, not in TK, not in SSC, not in Gruul's Lair, and not in Mag's Lair. I jumped at the chance to get a new weapon, and it was a clear upgrade over Sonic Spear. It wasn't even close, in my opinion. He was happy to pass it to me, and I was happy to take it. Trollbane dropped the next time we ran ZA. Heh.

    Didn't we have an argument over gemming agi and AP a while ago? With neither of us backing down at all?

    (Gogo agi)

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    MayGodHaveMercyMayGodHaveMercy Registered User regular
    edited January 2008
    You shouldn't have taken it from him, that weapon really is just "ok." Better than Sonic Spear, but not other hunter weapons out there (You'd be better off waiting to get a Trollbane, luck be damned).

    You're not really underestimating haste for Hunters. It used to be awesome back before they nerfed it (You could get a Marks Hunter near a BM speed to use a 1:1 rotation), but after the change it's now just "ok."

    Actually, Sonic Spear is equal if you're benefiting from the hit

    I had bad luck with drops. Very bad luck. We'd been clearing Karazhan since early, early BC, and progressing at a good clip, and I never saw a weapon upgrade drop. Not in Kara, not in TK, not in SSC, not in Gruul's Lair, and not in Mag's Lair. I jumped at the chance to get a new weapon, and it was a clear upgrade over Sonic Spear. It wasn't even close, in my opinion. He was happy to pass it to me, and I was happy to take it. Trollbane dropped the next time we ran ZA. Heh.

    Didn't we have an argument over gemming agi and AP a while ago? With neither of us backing down at all?

    (Gogo agi)

    Haha, yes. I actually put +8 AGI in all 16 of my gem slots and went survival spec to test it out for raiding. 809 AGI unbuffed was pretty hot. As well as 33% crit. So, I never had enough money to replace all of them, and now I have, like, half and half. :lol:

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    StollyStolly Registered User regular
    edited January 2008
    A few nice links I'd add to the OP are two threads on Elitist Jerks.

    Cheeky's spreadsheet and Hunter shot rotation illustrated are both invalubale resources.

    In the same forum there are also two theorycraft threads about BM and survival theorycraft for raiding respectively that are both highly useful.

    Edit. Doh! Missed that the link to the spreadsheet already was in the OP and spelled liked crap. That should teach me not to make quick posts while I should be working.:)

    Stolly on
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    goodtimesgoodtimes Registered User regular
    edited January 2008
    Stolly wrote: »
    A few nice links I'd add to the OP are two threads on Elitist Jerks.

    Cheeky's spreadsheet and Hunter shor rotation illustrated are bot invalubale resources.

    In the same forum there are also two theorycraft threads about BM and survival theorycraft for raiding respectively that are both highly useful.

    cheekys was up there already but I added the shot rotation link you provided , good catch.

    goodtimes on
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    HamurabiHamurabi MiamiRegistered User regular
    edited January 2008
    Had the Wolfslayer drop in Kara last night, so I scoped it and got the mats together for an HH ammo pouch.

    Gawd the dwarf gun firing animation is dumb -- either that, or I'm shooting so fast that it's messing with the animation sequence, because I just stand there the entire time with bullets flying out of the end of the thing. It looks pretty stupid.

    Hamurabi on
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    Munkus BeaverMunkus Beaver You don't have to attend every argument you are invited to. Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPA regular
    edited January 2008
    No, that's just you shooting so fast that it's messing with the animation sequence.

    Munkus Beaver on
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    MayGodHaveMercyMayGodHaveMercy Registered User regular
    edited January 2008
    I still want them to make a gun with a .1 attack speed. I just want to see it!

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