I don't know of any specific examples, but I seem to vaguely remember seeing situations where it is better.
Certainly there were times where mail was better in vanilla wow.
And if it's so great, why do all the ret pallies cry about not having plate with strength and crit?
The core problem with ret paladins is that general "paladin dps plate" is bad for ret paladins.
That would make perfect sense to me before the crusader strike change, but certainly both dps warriors and ret pallies want lots of strength and crit. Haste would still be quite good for ret pallies and some degree of hit probably would.
Septus on
PSN: Kurahoshi1
0
kaleeditySometimes science is more art than scienceRegistered Userregular
I don't know of any specific examples, but I seem to vaguely remember seeing situations where it is better.
Certainly there were times where mail was better in vanilla wow.
And if it's so great, why do all the ret pallies cry about not having plate with strength and crit?
The core problem with ret paladins is that general "paladin dps plate" is bad for ret paladins.
That would make perfect sense to me before the crusader strike change, but certainly both dps warriors and ret pallies want lots of strength and crit. Haste would still be quite good for ret pallies and some degree of hit probably would.
The spell damage plate was worse before the cs change.
Haste is still weak for alliance paladins.
The warrior plate was always good and always existed, but the paladin plate was always pretty terrible.
Don't pallies get something like 40-45% of their damage through auto-attack? I thought anyone with that much white damage got a big benefit from haste.
Septus on
PSN: Kurahoshi1
0
kaleeditySometimes science is more art than scienceRegistered Userregular
edited March 2008
Yeah, it's just worse than any other physical class
Why? Why would they do this? What mail gear is superior to plate for a warrior? The Itemization for Fury Warriors is better than it is for a lot of other classes/specs.
In Karazhan? There is exactly one piece of DPS plate in the entire instance: Ironstriders of Urgency off of Nightbane. That's it. All other Kara plate is tanking or healing.
There isn't even a good amount of plate DPS gear in Heroics. Check out my amory, its a mix of PvP gear and mail, with 1 piece of leather I got from Aran.
They really need to step up and offer more plate DPS gear with the stats people want. Not all this fucking haste bullshit that's just the flavor of the month.
All of the problems with GW stem from ONE single issue.
There is no jump button.
I'm gonna take that to mean "Yes I agree, the exclusion of jumping capabilities is inexcusable and detracts from the game as a whole".
Seriously, how I am ever supposed to even *try* take take my character seriously when he can't even jump in the air and move over terrain? I don't care how much of a badass you are, if you can't jump your way out of a pothole you're about as physically capable as a toddler.
Don't pallies get something like 40-45% of their damage through auto-attack? I thought anyone with that much white damage got a big benefit from haste.
On my first Karazhan (the first one that loaded up in WWS; there's a big queue at the moment), I came up with:
45% Melee
21% Seal of Blood
18% Crusader Strike
8% Judgement of Blood
5% Exorcism
And the rest misc. stuff. So Haste boosts melee + SoB, for Horde paladins at least.
All of the problems with GW stem from ONE single issue.
There is no jump button.
I'm gonna take that to mean "Yes I agree, the exclusion of jumping capabilities is inexcusable and detracts from the game as a whole".
Seriously, how I am ever supposed to even *try* take take my character seriously when he can't even jump in the air and move over terrain? I don't care how much of a badass you are, if you can't jump your way out of a pothole you're about as physically capable as a toddler.
Well, any game ever that has ever existed ever (ever) has allowed jumping with space. You're not being revolutionary by not allowing it!
From what I know, haste only affects white damage and thus for Cat druids it's about on par with +hit in usefulness (which is to say, not that useful in the end, but still useful). For Bears, though, haste's increase in the white damage also increases Maul by proxy and assuming infinite rage that's a good deal more threat gen. Expertise is better than haste though for both, from my knowledge on the subject which may or may not be correct.
Anyway, back on topic, I'm happy due to the pain of others. This will take a little backstory, so bear with me. I believe I've mentioned in the past that my guild was torn apart by jackasses who wouldn't man up to any problems they had with the guild or anything at all really or they'd just make problems up to support their arguments. Because of that, they got angry and decided to run off and make their own guild whose purpose--at least to me and my guild--was to tear my guild apart. So after they had their own guild they started by grabbing up any members of my guild who returned to the game to play TBC, pulling them over into their guild with bullshit lies and then after a while they started going after their friends still in my guild (of which all gave bullshit reasons for leaving), and then they went after our new recruits. The whole "guild's being attacked" thing wore down many of the people in our guild and a lot just plain quit because they got tired of dealing with those assholes or the game in general. So our guild that could field two Karas at a time with people to spare and had just killed Gruul on our first night in there lost enough people (right after said Gruul) to at first no longer do 25 mans and then later on to not even be able to do Kara without pugging one or two people to now where there's only 5 members active in the guild at all. This is a sad thing considering at the start of TBC there was 40 active people playing. Basically all my guild is now is an Arena team who when we want to raid will pug it and hope for the best.
So anyway, the two major jackasses who instigated the whole thing apparently got into a fight within their new guild and one has split off to make another guild, taking as many people as he could with him. So through the power of schadenfreude I found I enjoyed this turn of events a lot.
That is awesome Opty. We have been in a similar situation in the United Slackers on Moonglade where some people broke out and made their own raid group, and has poached our members ever since. We have survived and are doing decently, but the whole deal broke up alot of friendships and that always sucks.
I was on my resto shaman in the ogre hills above shatt when a nice tauren tank in t4 and a smitten of t5 drops and is pissed Im on the adamantite node that he had designated as his own
I was on my human rogue once and tapped a node, with just one last tap left.
Paladin arrives, hammers me. I vanish. Happy that he scared me off he starts mining.
This is of course where I sap him and take the last tap while he's angrily fumbling for his bubble button, then I sprint the hell away.
From what I know, haste only affects white damage and thus for Cat druids it's about on par with +hit in usefulness (which is to say, not that useful in the end, but still useful). For Bears, though, haste's increase in the white damage also increases Maul by proxy and assuming infinite rage that's a good deal more threat gen. Expertise is better than haste though for both, from my knowledge on the subject which may or may not be correct.
I'm no expert, but barring it having a PPM cap that you're already hitting/passing, would not haste (especially) and to some degree hit improve (at the very least a cat) druid's DPS by virtue of OOC? Everybody loves free mangles... unless of course you're on the recieving end :P
Hate: My old guild. Lead by an ass, but my friends (including RL friends) stay in it cause they get to raid, and they are apparently progressing, be it ever so slowly. They continue to try and recruit me back because apparently the new MT they got is a jackass who has already caused several other people to stop raiding with his attitude.
Hope: One of them is being asked to basically become a co-GM so things might change, and I might be able to stomach going back so I can run with them again. I'd rather the current G.Leader just get overthrown or someone pull a coup de'ta.
Happy: Prot Pally Alt. Why did no one tell me about this sooner
All of the problems with GW stem from ONE single issue.
There is no jump button.
I'm gonna take that to mean "Yes I agree, the exclusion of jumping capabilities is inexcusable and detracts from the game as a whole".
Seriously, how I am ever supposed to even *try* take take my character seriously when he can't even jump in the air and move over terrain? I don't care how much of a badass you are, if you can't jump your way out of a pothole you're about as physically capable as a toddler.
Well, any game ever that has ever existed ever (ever) has allowed jumping with space. You're not being revolutionary by not allowing it!
It's not that they can't jump that's annoying. It's that theres no Z axis.... there's no up and down in the engine! =pp
If I'm being perfectly hones I think guild wars is just a trial run for guild wars 2, which I've heard is using the same engine but with an actual Z axis. So Guild wars 2 will offer pretty graphics + jumping + falling and in general physics as a whole
From what I know, haste only affects white damage and thus for Cat druids it's about on par with +hit in usefulness (which is to say, not that useful in the end, but still useful). For Bears, though, haste's increase in the white damage also increases Maul by proxy and assuming infinite rage that's a good deal more threat gen. Expertise is better than haste though for both, from my knowledge on the subject which may or may not be correct.
Anyway, back on topic, I'm happy due to the pain of others. This will take a little backstory, so bear with me. I believe I've mentioned in the past that my guild was torn apart by jackasses who wouldn't man up to any problems they had with the guild or anything at all really or they'd just make problems up to support their arguments. Because of that, they got angry and decided to run off and make their own guild whose purpose--at least to me and my guild--was to tear my guild apart. So after they had their own guild they started by grabbing up any members of my guild who returned to the game to play TBC, pulling them over into their guild with bullshit lies and then after a while they started going after their friends still in my guild (of which all gave bullshit reasons for leaving), and then they went after our new recruits. The whole "guild's being attacked" thing wore down many of the people in our guild and a lot just plain quit because they got tired of dealing with those assholes or the game in general. So our guild that could field two Karas at a time with people to spare and had just killed Gruul on our first night in there lost enough people (right after said Gruul) to at first no longer do 25 mans and then later on to not even be able to do Kara without pugging one or two people to now where there's only 5 members active in the guild at all. This is a sad thing considering at the start of TBC there was 40 active people playing. Basically all my guild is now is an Arena team who when we want to raid will pug it and hope for the best.
So anyway, the two major jackasses who instigated the whole thing apparently got into a fight within their new guild and one has split off to make another guild, taking as many people as he could with him. So through the power of schadenfreude I found I enjoyed this turn of events a lot.
:shock: Are...are you in my guild? Because the exact same thing happened to our guild. Nearly word for word.
I was on my resto shaman in the ogre hills above shatt when a nice tauren tank in t4 and a smitten of t5 drops and is pissed Im on the adamantite node that he had designated as his own
I was on my human rogue once and tapped a node, with just one last tap left.
Paladin arrives, hammers me. I vanish. Happy that he scared me off he starts mining.
This is of course where I sap him and take the last tap while he's angrily fumbling for his bubble button, then I sprint the hell away.
I've had to generate this compulsive routine farming ore on my hunter.
1. fly around till I locate a node.
2. Switch to track humanoid as I land.
3. flare
4. Lay freeze trap
5. start mining
It's so bad even inside instances I find myself flaring and trapping an ore node before I start mining it. Best thing in the world is clearing one of those ogre tunnels in nagrand to get to a rich adamantite node. once it's clear flaring on the node will 50% of the time reveal the same female human rogue trying to ninja the ore spawn. Hunter vs expected rogue = rogue never gets any ore
I'm no expert, but barring it having a PPM cap that you're already hitting/passing, would not haste (especially) and to some degree hit improve (at the very least a cat) druid's DPS by virtue of OOC? Everybody loves free mangles... unless of course you're on the recieving end :P
Yes, you'd get slightly more OOC procs(and tier 4 bonus procs), and pallies would get a sizeable increase in SoC procs.
But haste's value is still greatly determined by how much white damage you do. It's funny though, the Dragonspine Talisman is still best in slot for feral druids. Lol DFT 2.0.
Happy: Kara again, came in after Attumen and all the trash to Moroes (rogue quit raid and hearthed in the middle of the first Moroes attempt, later says he was hacked, but he's bailed in the middle of instance runs several times) and still barely beat out the Fury war for DPS.
Happy: Downed Moroes, Maiden, Opera, and Curator. Would have been more except Kara was buggy as a mug and people were constantly disconnecting towards the end.
Hate: A group of mobs at Curator bugged and was stuck in one of the pillars, caused a reset wipe while trying to set up to take him down the far end of the hall.
Hey Doj, was the server giving you big buckets of lag last night? We had times where it took 5 minutes to loot a boss (my wife was getting nervous, Shard dropped from Maiden for her). Also had some times where we'd pull a group, they'd stand there as if nothing happened, then all of the sudden we'd all be dead.
Hey Doj, was the server giving you big buckets of lag last night? We had times where it took 5 minutes to loot a boss (my wife was getting nervous, Shard dropped from Maiden for her). Also had some times where we'd pull a group, they'd stand there as if nothing happened, then all of the sudden we'd all be dead.
I wasn't on yesterday, I don't know for sure. But on my guild forums, a guy was saying that they were having weird problems while running his alt through strat for the pally mount, so sounds like it is server issues. Grats on the healy mace, hope it eventually got in the right hands.
dojango on
0
AegisFear My DanceOvershot Toronto, Landed in OttawaRegistered Userregular
Hate: A group of mobs at Curator bugged and was stuck in one of the pillars, caused a reset wipe while trying to set up to take him down the far end of the hall.
Beasts had that happen last Friday actually. One of the mob groups were literally in the pillar coming right out of the door and were evade bugged all to hell. They'd shoot their mana drain at you if you got too close but otherwise they never bothered us, even though we were expecting them to unstick the second we pulled Curator.
Hey Doj, was the server giving you big buckets of lag last night? We had times where it took 5 minutes to loot a boss (my wife was getting nervous, Shard dropped from Maiden for her). Also had some times where we'd pull a group, they'd stand there as if nothing happened, then all of the sudden we'd all be dead.
I wasn't on yesterday, I don't know for sure. But on my guild forums, a guy was saying that they were having weird problems while running his alt through strat for the pally mount, so sounds like it is server issues. Grats on the healy mace, hope it eventually got in the right hands.
It did, and while I haven't gotten many upgrades (just the Drape), my tank and healer have been making out like bandits
Hate: A certain resto Shaman who apparently never trained Cure Poison. Our three feral druids who were all tanking logged more decurses than he did. Of course, its not that hard to beat zero...
Hope: Archimonde coughs up my staff tonight...
Happiness: We had ~five people on that needed their vial for attunement, and a few of our core raiders were out of town (stupid spring break) so we headed into SSC last night. I'm not sure why people freak out about going back to SSC or TK; It's a good time when your healing officer gets to MT, you let the boomkin OT, and a certain NE Priestess conspires with her roommate (Bear) to top the "break cc" meter with Starshards. (I only managed to kill myself twice) I know there's not really any loot anyone needs, but come on... Is there anyone else out there that just loves raiding for the sake of raiding?
Hate: Someone we thought was going to be our new resto shaman (which we desperately need) decided to stay with his old guild on his hunter after all. So glad we keyed him for Hyjal on Sunday.
Hope: Yet another old school ED raid guild may be disbanding after the departure of a few officers, so we might pick up a keyed/geared holy paladin, resto shaman, and CoH priest. Not bad, not bad. Although we're going to start to get a bad reputation if they gquit before the gdisband.
Oooh, Riz (And any other ED Horde)... A friend of mine just transferred over to ED Alliance side, if you happen to see him at a summoning stone can you give him a welcome hug from me?
And by hug, I obviously mean shadowbolt to the face.
Hate: Someone we thought was going to be our new resto shaman (which we desperately need) decided to stay with his old guild on his hunter after all. So glad we keyed him for Hyjal on Sunday.
Hope: Yet another old school ED raid guild may be disbanding after the departure of a few officers, so we might pick up a keyed/geared holy paladin, resto shaman, and CoH priest. Not bad, not bad. Although we're going to start to get a bad reputation if they gquit before the gdisband.
Happy: farming the Demon Hunter Supplicants at the Ruins of Karabor is all that was promised to me and so much more
3x Ced's Carver's in a single pull
See, I've been told the Warlocks at Legion Hold are good for this, too. I've spent hour upon hour, and have never seen a blue. And maybe a green every 10-15 minutes. Gah.
I must have horrible luck.
At least I get a bunch of netherweave and marks.
PierceNeck on
0
Dhalphirdon't you open that trapdooryou're a fool if you dareRegistered Userregular
Happy: farming the Demon Hunter Supplicants at the Ruins of Karabor is all that was promised to me and so much more
3x Ced's Carver's in a single pull
See, I've been told the Warlocks at Legion Hold are good for this, too. I've spent hour upon hour, and have never seen a blue. And maybe a green every 10-15 minutes. Gah.
I must have horrible luck.
At least I get a bunch of netherweave and marks.
not with a prot paladin they're not, being casters
Posts
That would make perfect sense to me before the crusader strike change, but certainly both dps warriors and ret pallies want lots of strength and crit. Haste would still be quite good for ret pallies and some degree of hit probably would.
The spell damage plate was worse before the cs change.
Haste is still weak for alliance paladins.
The warrior plate was always good and always existed, but the paladin plate was always pretty terrible.
haste isn't bad, but it'd be way better for (alliance) paladins to just have more str/crit
but then I guess itemizing something for certain factions is hard
give us seal of blood damn you
Ok but tauren males get the NE Female jiggle
There isn't even a good amount of plate DPS gear in Heroics. Check out my amory, its a mix of PvP gear and mail, with 1 piece of leather I got from Aran.
They really need to step up and offer more plate DPS gear with the stats people want. Not all this fucking haste bullshit that's just the flavor of the month.
Well, except maybe feral druids.
But that's nice actually. I like when yellow damage is proportionately higher, screw hit and screw haste.
I'm gonna take that to mean "Yes I agree, the exclusion of jumping capabilities is inexcusable and detracts from the game as a whole".
Seriously, how I am ever supposed to even *try* take take my character seriously when he can't even jump in the air and move over terrain? I don't care how much of a badass you are, if you can't jump your way out of a pothole you're about as physically capable as a toddler.
On my first Karazhan (the first one that loaded up in WWS; there's a big queue at the moment), I came up with:
45% Melee
21% Seal of Blood
18% Crusader Strike
8% Judgement of Blood
5% Exorcism
And the rest misc. stuff. So Haste boosts melee + SoB, for Horde paladins at least.
Well, any game ever that has ever existed ever (ever) has allowed jumping with space. You're not being revolutionary by not allowing it!
I remember a priest friend of mine being ticked about that. She liked getting into the mix while we were fighting solo type mobs.
It was the same patch they moved a bunch of priest talents around. I think it was before 2.0, but it may not have been.
1.10, the priest class lookover patch, they also gave it charges for some silly reason.
Anyway, back on topic, I'm happy due to the pain of others. This will take a little backstory, so bear with me. I believe I've mentioned in the past that my guild was torn apart by jackasses who wouldn't man up to any problems they had with the guild or anything at all really or they'd just make problems up to support their arguments. Because of that, they got angry and decided to run off and make their own guild whose purpose--at least to me and my guild--was to tear my guild apart. So after they had their own guild they started by grabbing up any members of my guild who returned to the game to play TBC, pulling them over into their guild with bullshit lies and then after a while they started going after their friends still in my guild (of which all gave bullshit reasons for leaving), and then they went after our new recruits. The whole "guild's being attacked" thing wore down many of the people in our guild and a lot just plain quit because they got tired of dealing with those assholes or the game in general. So our guild that could field two Karas at a time with people to spare and had just killed Gruul on our first night in there lost enough people (right after said Gruul) to at first no longer do 25 mans and then later on to not even be able to do Kara without pugging one or two people to now where there's only 5 members active in the guild at all. This is a sad thing considering at the start of TBC there was 40 active people playing. Basically all my guild is now is an Arena team who when we want to raid will pug it and hope for the best.
So anyway, the two major jackasses who instigated the whole thing apparently got into a fight within their new guild and one has split off to make another guild, taking as many people as he could with him. So through the power of schadenfreude I found I enjoyed this turn of events a lot.
I was on my human rogue once and tapped a node, with just one last tap left.
Paladin arrives, hammers me. I vanish. Happy that he scared me off he starts mining.
This is of course where I sap him and take the last tap while he's angrily fumbling for his bubble button, then I sprint the hell away.
I'm no expert, but barring it having a PPM cap that you're already hitting/passing, would not haste (especially) and to some degree hit improve (at the very least a cat) druid's DPS by virtue of OOC? Everybody loves free mangles... unless of course you're on the recieving end :P
Hate: My old guild. Lead by an ass, but my friends (including RL friends) stay in it cause they get to raid, and they are apparently progressing, be it ever so slowly. They continue to try and recruit me back because apparently the new MT they got is a jackass who has already caused several other people to stop raiding with his attitude.
Hope: One of them is being asked to basically become a co-GM so things might change, and I might be able to stomach going back so I can run with them again. I'd rather the current G.Leader just get overthrown or someone pull a coup de'ta.
Happy: Prot Pally Alt. Why did no one tell me about this sooner
It's not that they can't jump that's annoying. It's that theres no Z axis.... there's no up and down in the engine! =pp
If I'm being perfectly hones I think guild wars is just a trial run for guild wars 2, which I've heard is using the same engine but with an actual Z axis. So Guild wars 2 will offer pretty graphics + jumping + falling and in general physics as a whole
gogo g/w2! =p
Yes, you use your axe, complete with wood-chopping sound, to boil leather.
:shock: Are...are you in my guild? Because the exact same thing happened to our guild. Nearly word for word.
Steam: pazython
3/28/06 to be exact.
I miss you Focused Casting.
I've had to generate this compulsive routine farming ore on my hunter.
1. fly around till I locate a node.
2. Switch to track humanoid as I land.
3. flare
4. Lay freeze trap
5. start mining
It's so bad even inside instances I find myself flaring and trapping an ore node before I start mining it. Best thing in the world is clearing one of those ogre tunnels in nagrand to get to a rich adamantite node. once it's clear flaring on the node will 50% of the time reveal the same female human rogue trying to ninja the ore spawn. Hunter vs expected rogue = rogue never gets any ore
Yes, you'd get slightly more OOC procs(and tier 4 bonus procs), and pallies would get a sizeable increase in SoC procs.
But haste's value is still greatly determined by how much white damage you do. It's funny though, the Dragonspine Talisman is still best in slot for feral druids. Lol DFT 2.0.
Happy: Downed Moroes, Maiden, Opera, and Curator. Would have been more except Kara was buggy as a mug and people were constantly disconnecting towards the end.
Hate: A group of mobs at Curator bugged and was stuck in one of the pillars, caused a reset wipe while trying to set up to take him down the far end of the hall.
Hate: No loots! wth
Hmm, same here. As Tolstoy, the Orc Shammy might have said, unhappy guilds are all alike. Happy guilds are all happy in a different manner.
I wasn't on yesterday, I don't know for sure. But on my guild forums, a guy was saying that they were having weird problems while running his alt through strat for the pally mount, so sounds like it is server issues. Grats on the healy mace, hope it eventually got in the right hands.
Beasts had that happen last Friday actually. One of the mob groups were literally in the pillar coming right out of the door and were evade bugged all to hell. They'd shoot their mana drain at you if you got too close but otherwise they never bothered us, even though we were expecting them to unstick the second we pulled Curator.
Currently DMing: None
Characters
[5e] Dural Melairkyn - AC 18 | HP 40 | Melee +5/1d8+3 | Spell +4/DC 12
It did, and while I haven't gotten many upgrades (just the Drape), my tank and healer have been making out like bandits
Hope: Archimonde coughs up my staff tonight...
Happiness: We had ~five people on that needed their vial for attunement, and a few of our core raiders were out of town (stupid spring break) so we headed into SSC last night. I'm not sure why people freak out about going back to SSC or TK; It's a good time when your healing officer gets to MT, you let the boomkin OT, and a certain NE Priestess conspires with her roommate (Bear) to top the "break cc" meter with Starshards. (I only managed to kill myself twice) I know there's not really any loot anyone needs, but come on... Is there anyone else out there that just loves raiding for the sake of raiding?
Hope: Yet another old school ED raid guild may be disbanding after the departure of a few officers, so we might pick up a keyed/geared holy paladin, resto shaman, and CoH priest. Not bad, not bad. Although we're going to start to get a bad reputation if they gquit before the gdisband.
3x Ced's Carver's in a single pull
I'm having fun pulling most of the Yeti cave in Hillsbrad though.
Steam: YOU FACE JARAXXUS| Twitch.tv: CainLoveless
Why can't Hunters heal :x?!
See, I've been told the Warlocks at Legion Hold are good for this, too. I've spent hour upon hour, and have never seen a blue. And maybe a green every 10-15 minutes. Gah.
I must have horrible luck.
At least I get a bunch of netherweave and marks.
not with a prot paladin they're not, being casters