Primer - omgwtf

Snork

So after reading about it here, several times, I decided I really wanted to see this movie Primer.

For those that don't know, it's a relatively recent movie that is ridiculously confusing due to the involvement of time travel in the plot. I can't really explain much about it because I've only seen it once, and as the wiki states, anyone who claims to understand it completely on first viewing is either a savant or a liar. I personally think I have a really good idea of what happens, but I really really want to discuss it with other people.

Aside from being extremely technical and confusing, I found it to also be extremely entertaining, and at times very tense and frightening.

Watch it.

And then help me understand the ending.

(search is broken, so if there's another thread about this please link me because I want to read like ninety million pages on it right now)

JohnDoe

Primer was great.

Took me 3 viewings and a wiki entry to completely follow it though.

MikeMan

I must have watched Primer 6 times.

It's insane. Utterly insane.

So fucking awesome, though.

Snork

After reading a Q&A with the director I'm relieved to know that the one big question that I had at the end of the movie was the one thing he purposefully left vague. I can't wait until I get to see it again.
Aside from having an extremely complex and well-thought-out plot, god damn if that movie didn't have an immensely palpable level of urgency and tenseness in some spots.
There were just a few scenes where I was watching and I just felt nervous, because I knew I was watching people completely fucking everything up in a very big way.

Adrien

Yes.

I'm not surprised this movie isn't more famous, but it's a fucking shame.

MikeMan

Adrien wrote: »

Yes.

I'm not surprised this movie isn't more famous, but it's a fucking shame.

It's a super obscure indy film made on a shoe-string budget. I'm surprised anyone at all has even heard of it.

Adrien

MikeMan wrote: »

Adrien wrote: »

Yes.

I'm not surprised this movie isn't more famous, but it's a fucking shame.

It's a super obscure indy film made on a shoe-string budget. I'm surprised anyone at all has even heard of it.

Just makes it that much more impressive, really. The whole thing is super tight.

Gim

Fun fact: the guy's wife in the movie is his sister in real life.

TMYK

Dynagrip

I only watched it once and then went straight to the wikipedia entry. I really liked it though.

Euphoric

If this movie is the movie I think it is (and from the wikipedia entry I think it is) then I only saw like, the last 1/3 of it a while ago. It looked interesting but you know how it is when you walk in on a movie, having to piece together the storyline as it goes, so I didn't realize you confusing the movie is from the start. I really need to find it and watch it.

Narian

I was trying to remember the name of this movie awhile back, and I think I'll go rent it right now. Thanks! :^:

stilist

Dynagrip wrote: »

I only watched it once and then went straight to the wikipedia entry. I really liked it though.

Same. I think I might watch it again.

Cherrn

I watched it sometime last year, but it honestly didn't make a big impression on me. I gather you have to see it several times to fully appreciate it, though.

nexuscrawler

Euphoric wrote: »

If this movie is the movie I think it is (and from the wikipedia entry I think it is) then I only saw like, the last 1/3 of it a while ago. It looked interesting but you know how it is when you walk in on a movie, having to piece together the storyline as it goes, so I didn't realize you confusing the movie is from the start. I really need to find it and watch it.

It throws some serious curveballs the last 5 minutes

MikeMan

Euphoric wrote: »

If this movie is the movie I think it is (and from the wikipedia entry I think it is) then I only saw like, the last 1/3 of it a while ago. It looked interesting but you know how it is when you walk in on a movie, having to piece together the storyline as it goes, so I didn't realize you confusing the movie is from the start. I really need to find it and watch it.

Watching the movie from the start only serves to lessen the degree of "whatthefuck-itude." It never eliminates it.

Clint Eastwood

I was really interested in this movie and rented it but it really bored me to tears. I might give it another shot some time since I keep hearing good things about it, but my initial impression was really bad.

Hamju

When I first watched Primer I was high and at the time I thought I was following along fine and then all of a sudden it ended and I was just like, ".....what?"

Edit: but ya, amazing movie. I want to watch it again

Feral

Primer = only movie about time travel ever that makes a lick of sense.

Evil Multifarious

Feral wrote: »

Primer = only movie about time travel ever that makes a lick of sense.

Bill and Ted's Excellent Adventure.

Deviant Hands

I really want to watch this movie, but it's not like I can really find it anywhere.

Is there a place on the net where I can find it? It's not on youtube or itunes

Feral

Deviant Hands wrote: »

I really want to watch this movie, but it's not like I can really find it anywhere.

Is there a place on the net where I can find it? It's not on youtube or itunes

Netflix has it.

Adrien

If there were a link to the full video from the Wikipedia page, would that be something that's okay? I can't find anything about them releasing it for free.

I would say it's totally worth the $20 DVD, 'cause it is, but some people disagree with that, so you'd probably want to check it out first.

Deviant Hands

I'll watch it first before I decide to buy it or not.

durandal4532

Shit, thanks for reminding me that I need to see this. Now, of course, I have to leave the thread until I do.

toxk_02

Man I had another movie planned for tonight but I just pulled Primer off the shelf instead.

Thank you thread. :^:

Amazing movie, plus it seems like it was made so you'd watch it again immediately - it's only 77 minutes long so two back-to-back viewings is 2 and half hours.

Real spoiler/plot question:

What's the deal with the older dude (girlfriend's dad) finding the machine? I feel like I'm missing something, otherwise it seems he managed to not only find the machines but operate one, all on his own. Or is it implied he was getting suspicious of Aaron and Abe?

edit: while I recommend watching the DVD, if you can't the movie is on Google Video. http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=3909854615539675694

Doc

It is also on netflix's instant watch thing.

Clevinger

I have a couple questions for those who've figured a lot of it out:

1. Why do they bleed out their ears?
2. Why does their handwriting become horrible?

Really, I understood practically nothing in the last third, but those are some questions...

thanks

Really good movie, even without understanding it. The tension and creepiness in some parts was immense.

Dingus

toxk_02 wrote: »

Real spoiler/plot question:

What's the deal with the older dude (girlfriend's dad) finding the machine? I feel like I'm missing something, otherwise it seems he managed to not only find the machines but operate one, all on his own. Or is it implied he was getting suspicious of Aaron and Abe?

I thought that it was implied that one of them showed him the machine in the future, it has been a while since I have lost this. The idea that one of them in the future shared the knowledge of the machine and they currently had no possible way of knowing the circumstances why caused the two to become suspicious of each other iirc.

Edit: Tags sure work better when I spell spoiler right...

Feral

Dingus wrote: »

toxk_02 wrote: »

Real spoiler/plot question:

What's the deal with the older dude (girlfriend's dad) finding the machine? I feel like I'm missing something, otherwise it seems he managed to not only find the machines but operate one, all on his own. Or is it implied he was getting suspicious of Aaron and Abe?

I thought that it was implied that one of them showed him the machine in the future, it has been a while since I have lost this. The idea that one of them in the future shared the knowledge of the machine and they currently had no possible way of knowing the circumstances why caused the two to become suspicious of each other iirc.

Edit: Tags sure work better when I spell spoiler right...

/agree with Dingus

Dingus

Clevinger wrote: »

I have a couple questions for those who've figured a lot of it out:

1. Why do they bleed out their ears?
2. Why does their handwriting become horrible?

Really, I understood practically nothing in the last third, but those are some questions...

thanks

Really good movie, even without understanding it. The tension and creepiness in some parts was immense.

I just viewed those as physiological side-effects from the machine, I didn't think they had any purpose beyond showing how they were willing to ignore the physical repercussions of time travel and not even think about abandoning the use of the machine despite the fact that it was fucking them up.

Deviant Hands

Just finished watching it.

The wikipedia entry on this movie doesn't really explain much.

I don't understand what was up with the whole guy bringing a shotgun to a party thing. Did he kill a shitload of people? Who was that guy

Dingus

Deviant Hands wrote: »

Just finished watching it.

The wikipedia entry on this movie doesn't really explain much.

I don't understand what was up with the whole guy bringing a shotgun to a party thing. Did he kill a shitload of people? Who was that guy

He was the ex-boyfriend of Abe's girl (the daughter of the guy they were trying to get finances from). I think that on one timeline he may have killed some people and um not-abe went back and stopped it, causing further tension between the two of them (due to dude taking risks when he has a family, which Abe my be very jealous of him having) and furthering their desire to experiment with causality. I got a little confused around that point too though, seems like they had some idea of more they wanted to do with that, but did not have the time/money.

Clevinger

What was the last scene all about?

And what were Abe and the other guy arguing about at the airport(?) near the end, and Abe telling him not to come back?

Snork

Clevinger wrote: »

What was the last scene all about?

And what were Abe and the other guy arguing about at the airport(?) near the end, and Abe telling him not to come back?

The last scene was

Narrator-Aaron building a room-sized box in France. He wants to go even further with it, but Abe got scared a long time ago with how much they were fucking with causality, so he wanted to scrap the whole thing and let things sort themselves out. Aaron knows that this is pretty much impossible, so he just wants to do shit even more.

As far as Granger goes,

Shane Carruth, the director and guy who plays Aaron has said that that is the one loose end he wanted to leave open. Given that at the end of the movie Aaron is building a room-sized box and is not very discreet about it, I think it's pretty safe to assume that at any point in the future, Granger finds and uses one of the original boxes.

Deviant Hands

Ok so if you put someone in the machine and watch them the whole time, what would you see once they awake for time travel?

Snork

Deviant Hands wrote: »

Ok so if you put someone in the machine and watch them the whole time, what would you see once they awake for time travel?

If I understand correctly, nothing. The timeline they live on ceases to exist, and the double's time line takes over. They exit the box at the moment it was turned on.

Deviant Hands

So if they exit at the moment it turns on, an observer wouldn't actually know if it worked unless they ran tests to see that the subjects are older and that they have information about the future..

Basically the machine would give you knowledge of the future and makes you older.

Adrien

Deviant Hands wrote: »

So if they exit at the moment it turns on, an observer wouldn't actually know if it worked unless they ran tests to see that the subjects are older and that they have information about the future..

Basically the machine would give you knowledge of the future and makes you older.

Eh? I think you're still confused, but I'm not sure.

If I want to travel six hours into the past, I turn the box on now. At the moment I turn on the box, my double Adrien(1) gets out of the box. For six hours my double and I exist side by side. After six hours I get into the box and stop existing in this timeline. I stay in the box for six hours, and then emerge at the time I turned it on as Adrien(1). I exist alongside Adrien(0) for six hours, and then he gets into the box and stops existing in this timeline. I continue living as the only Adrien.

Snork

Adrien wrote: »

Deviant Hands wrote: »

So if they exit at the moment it turns on, an observer wouldn't actually know if it worked unless they ran tests to see that the subjects are older and that they have information about the future..

Basically the machine would give you knowledge of the future and makes you older.

Eh? I think you're still confused, but I'm not sure.

If I want to travel six hours into the past, I turn the box on now. At the moment I turn on the box, my double Adrien(1) gets out of the box. For six hours my double and I exist side by side. After six hours I get into the box and stop existing in this timeline. I stay in the box for six hours, and then emerge at the time I turned it on as Adrien(1). I exist alongside Adrien(0) for six hours, and then he gets into the box and stops existing in this timeline. I continue living as the only Adrien.

This is correct. The six hours Adrien(1) is in the box (before emerging as Adrien(1)) is the same six hours that Adrien(0) would be waiting in the hotel room or something.

Deviant Hands

Snork wrote: »

Adrien wrote: »

Deviant Hands wrote: »

So if they exit at the moment it turns on, an observer wouldn't actually know if it worked unless they ran tests to see that the subjects are older and that they have information about the future..

Basically the machine would give you knowledge of the future and makes you older.

Eh? I think you're still confused, but I'm not sure.

If I want to travel six hours into the past, I turn the box on now. At the moment I turn on the box, my double Adrien(1) gets out of the box. For six hours my double and I exist side by side. After six hours I get into the box and stop existing in this timeline. I stay in the box for six hours, and then emerge at the time I turned it on as Adrien(1). I exist alongside Adrien(0) for six hours, and then he gets into the box and stops existing in this timeline. I continue living as the only Adrien.

This is correct. The six hours Adrien(1) is in the box (before emerging as Adrien(1)) is the same six hours that Adrien(0) would be waiting in the hotel room or something.

And how about if you never go back into the box after the six hours pass?

And would an external observor just see a dude randomly appear in the box out of nowhere?

Doc

Clevinger wrote: »

What was the last scene all about?

And what were Abe and the other guy arguing about at the airport(?) near the end, and Abe telling him not to come back?

My understanding of the airport scene (we will call the two guys in the airport group A) is that they have both gone back to when they first started the "failsafe" system, and therefore have have doubles (group currently living. Group A is trying to sabotage the devices so that group B never messes with the stuff in the first place. If that happens, group B will never cease to exist on their timeline as normally happens when you go back, so both groups A and B will live out their lives.