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The Classical Music Thread

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    HamjuHamju Registered User regular
    edited August 2006
    Poldy wrote:
    nickolai wrote:
    Define form. I really have no clue whatsoever where you're coming from on this one.

    EDIT: Can't believe I forgot Schindler's List. Add that to the above mini-list. Still don't know what you're talking about.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Musical_form

    When separated from their films - especially if one has not seen the film - then they struggle like a fish out of water. They sound like trite flourishes.
    Ya, but, that's the thing right. They are film scores and nothing more. They work beautifully with the movies and because of that, they do exactly what they're supposed to do which, at least in my opinion, makes them successful pieces.

    Period.

    Edit: I'd go more in depth into my defense of Williams, but I'm way too tired. Maybe tomorrow.

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    PodlyPodly you unzipped me! it's all coming back! i don't like it!Registered User regular
    edited August 2006
    nickolai wrote:
    Poldy wrote:
    Yeah, and "Eine Kleine Nachtmusik" is the most popular classical song. Doesn't make it suck any less.

    :shock:
    Yeah, you're probably going to have to explain that one to me. I am a "beginner" at classical appreciation, but... I like that song. Not my favorite, but still. That's about all I can say about that.

    It's all that is wrong with classical music. Soulless, pretty, too much emphasis on being civilized, light, fluffy, unimaginative.

    In a word - Nice. Much, much too nice.
    What's a good example of a well-structured piece?

    I loves me some Beethoven's 10th String quartet. A perfect sonata. Clearly defined exposition, development, and recapitulation, while avoiding being formulaic in the least. He wrestles with his motifs until they are almost unbearable, releasing the tension in a glorious bomb of an Eb chord. Classical music is something that benefits enormously from studying. Even poking around on some wikipedia articles should increase your enjoyment greatly.
    GO ENNIO MORRICONE!
    Oh yeah. He's pretty good.
    And what are you talking about? Over half of each of his movies (the Kill Bills excepted) has no background music.
    It's not about the background music. It's about how he uses songs. For example, the dick dale in Pulp Fiction.
    Pertinent question: To anybody who has seen A Clockwork Orange, what is that Beethoven piece called that plays during the gangfight near the beginning? I've searched all over the internet but can't find a clue as to what its name is. The one with pizzicato/bouncy strings and clarinet/flute, if that's... helpful at all. :?

    I'm getting the book and the movie confused. I think that it is Beethoven's 9th in the book, but Beethoven's 5th in the movie.

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    PodlyPodly you unzipped me! it's all coming back! i don't like it!Registered User regular
    edited August 2006
    So, hep cats

    I'm building up my Bach. I want to get something off of iTunes. I only have the Brandenberg Concerti, the Art of the Fugue, St. Matthew's Passion, Mass in B Minor, and an Italian piano Concerto.

    What do you think about The Musical Offering?

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    nickolainickolai Registered User regular
    edited August 2006
    Poldy wrote:
    I'm getting the book and the movie confused. I think that it is Beethoven's 9th in the book, but Beethoven's 5th in the movie.

    Ah, here we go:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Trr5sy6R31M
    THIS song--the one in the background.
    The one that plays while they beat up the rival gang, and then play "Hog of the Road" or whatever they call it.
    And the piece that he develops a psychological aversion to in the movie is Beethoven's 9th. I haven't read the book.

    Ooh, and "In the Hall of the Mountain King" I really like, even if it is a little repetitive.

    nickolai on
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    the Togfatherthe Togfather Registered User regular
    edited August 2006
    Poldy wrote:
    Even poking around on some wikipedia articles should increase your enjoyment greatly.

    I can vouch for that...first thing I did when I found a new composer I liked is read his wiki page, then read about some of their major works, then went on to musical styles, and on, and on...Very enlightening and has definately helped me appreciate/enjoy the music more, which is of course what it's all about...
    Plesio wrote:
    Whoever it was that brought up Classic Cat, thank you .

    Also ditto to this. This site single-handedly took me from six hours worth of classical music to 2.7 days.

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    PodlyPodly you unzipped me! it's all coming back! i don't like it!Registered User regular
    edited August 2006
    nickolai wrote:
    Poldy wrote:
    I'm getting the book and the movie confused. I think that it is Beethoven's 9th in the book, but Beethoven's 5th in the movie.

    Ah, here we go:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Trr5sy6R31M
    THIS song--the one in the background.
    The one that plays while they beat up the rival gang, and then play "Hog of the Road" or whatever they call it.
    And the piece that he develops a psychological aversion to in the movie is Beethoven's 9th. I haven't read the book.

    Ooh, and "In the Hall of the Mountain King" I really like, even if it is a little repetitive.

    Oh, fuck, I think that's from an opera. Ummm......Verdi maybe? Maybe?

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    nickolainickolai Registered User regular
    edited August 2006
    Verdi? Hmm.. I assumed it was Beethoven, since A Clockwork Orange (it's protagonist, in particular) is kind of "Ludwig van" centered.

    nickolai on
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    PodlyPodly you unzipped me! it's all coming back! i don't like it!Registered User regular
    edited August 2006
    nickolai wrote:
    Verdi? Hmm.. I assumed it was Beethoven, since A Clockwork Orange (it's protagonist, in particular) is kind of "Ludwig van" centered.

    No, it's not Beethoven - that specific song at least. However, Beethoven's 9th - specifically the second and fourth movements, are integral to A Clockwork Orange.

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    saggiosaggio Registered User regular
    edited August 2006
    nickolai wrote:
    What's a good example of a well-structured piece?

    Poldy is Beethoven obsessed. If you want really incredible amounts of structure, you absolutely must listen to Bach's Art of the Fugue. Counterpoint at it's absolute best. It makes me feel inadaquate as a musician just by listening to it, I don't even have to look at the score to feel like a tiny ant when compared to Bach's genius. It's an epic work.

    Oh, and the whole B-A-C-H thing is amusing too.

    saggio on
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    nickolainickolai Registered User regular
    edited August 2006
    saggio wrote:
    If you want really incredible amounts of structure, you absolutely must listen to Bach's Art of the Fugue.

    Is that the same Fugue as Bach's Tocatta & Fugue? The dracula/haunted house organ pieces?

    I've loved pretty much everything I've heard from Bach, especially his lute pieces. Would his music mostly fall under the baroque era, or the romantic era, or am I just ignorant?

    EDIT: nevermind about the genre thing. I didn't even bother to look him up.

    nickolai on
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    the Togfatherthe Togfather Registered User regular
    edited August 2006
    saggio wrote:
    Oh, and the whole B-A-C-H thing is amusing too.

    Agreed. And a fine example of something I learned by Wiki-ing classical music info.

    Both Art of the Fugue and Well-Tempered Clavier, LOTS of music there, and very, very good stuff.

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    the Togfatherthe Togfather Registered User regular
    edited August 2006
    nickolai wrote:
    Would his music mostly fall under the baroque era, or the romantic era, or am I just ignorant?

    Baroque

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    saggiosaggio Registered User regular
    edited August 2006
    nickolai wrote:
    saggio wrote:
    If you want really incredible amounts of structure, you absolutely must listen to Bach's Art of the Fugue.

    Is that the same Fugue as Bach's Tocatta & Fugue? The dracula/haunted house organ pieces?

    I've loved pretty much everything I've heard from Bach, especially his lute pieces. Would his music mostly fall under the baroque era, or the romantic era, or am I just ignorant?

    Nope, it's a very different piece. Actually, The Art of the Fugue was Bach's magnum opus that he was writing when he died. Toccata is a form, as is Fugue. The actual structure of a toccata has slipped my mind, but a fugue is always a contrapuntal composition - the first voice begins by presenting the theme, then goes on to a counter melody while the second voice begins by once again presenting the theme (most likely in a different octave range), and then the second voices goes on to another counter melody while the third voice enters, etc. Counterpoint is really, really frickin' hard to learn to do, but it's always been my favourite way of creating harmony.

    saggio on
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    nickolainickolai Registered User regular
    edited August 2006
    Wow... I know even less about music than I initially thought. :cry:

    A few years back I got a keyboard that allowed me to record songs by recording one track, then another above the first, and so on, up to six tracks. I went wild with that thing and composed a lot of music that I considered to be the bee's knees back then, but now I run through it all in my head and realize just how terrible it is.

    Extensive musical research via Wikipedia is in my future.

    nickolai on
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    PodlyPodly you unzipped me! it's all coming back! i don't like it!Registered User regular
    edited August 2006
    saggio wrote:
    nickolai wrote:
    saggio wrote:
    If you want really incredible amounts of structure, you absolutely must listen to Bach's Art of the Fugue.

    Is that the same Fugue as Bach's Tocatta & Fugue? The dracula/haunted house organ pieces?

    I've loved pretty much everything I've heard from Bach, especially his lute pieces. Would his music mostly fall under the baroque era, or the romantic era, or am I just ignorant?

    Nope, it's a very different piece. Actually, The Art of the Fugue was Bach's magnum opus that he was writing when he died. Toccata is a form, as is Fugue. The actual structure of a toccata has slipped my mind, but a fugue is always a contrapuntal composition - the first voice begins by presenting the theme, then goes on to a counter melody while the second voice begins by once again presenting the theme (most likely in a different octave range), and then the second voices goes on to another counter melody while the third voice enters, etc. Counterpoint is really, really frickin' hard to learn to do, but it's always been my favourite way of creating harmony.

    Yeah Saggio's been answering stuff awesomely. A Tocatta is like a blend of a fugue and a canon, but it is very, very, very loose - which is why so many Tocatta's are so long and grandiose.

    But, don't deny Beethoven's awesomeness. Bach, to me, can sound like a chore at times. Beethoven is teh great.

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    PodlyPodly you unzipped me! it's all coming back! i don't like it!Registered User regular
    edited August 2006
    Man.

    Händel can in no one compare to Bach.

    Like, at all.

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    DogDog Registered User, Administrator, Vanilla Staff admin
    edited August 2006
    Poldy wrote:
    nickolai wrote:

    Ooh, and "In the Hall of the Mountain King" I really like, even if it is a little repetitive.

    Oh, fuck, I think that's from an opera. Ummm......Verdi maybe? Maybe?

    It's from the Peer Gynt Suite by Grieg.

    Unknown User on
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    nickolainickolai Registered User regular
    edited August 2006
    nickolai wrote:
    Pertinent question: To anybody who has seen A Clockwork Orange, what is that Beethoven piece called that plays during the gangfight near the beginning? I've searched all over the internet but can't find a clue as to what its name is. The one with pizzicato/bouncy strings and clarinet/flute, if that's... helpful at all. :?
    nickolai wrote:
    Ah, here we go:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Trr5sy6R31M
    THIS song--the one in the background.
    Poldy wrote:
    Oh, fuck, I think that's from an opera. Ummm......Verdi maybe? Maybe?

    So... yeah.

    nickolai on
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    HamjuHamju Registered User regular
    edited August 2006
    So I just listened to "Isle of the Dead" by Rachmaninov and man... that piece is amazing. It was inspired by this painting:
    isle_of_the_dead.jpg
    Anyone else know it?

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    SUPERSUGASUPERSUGA Registered User regular
    edited September 2006
    Hamju wrote:
    Anyone else know it?

    Indeed, Rachmaninoff is probably one of my favourite composers to listen to. Mainly the piano concertos but I do enjoy Isle of the Dead as well. The man was incredible.

    SUPERSUGA on
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    AmphetamineAmphetamine Registered User regular
    edited September 2006
    Anybody ever heard the Air of the Holberg Suites by Grieg?

    Dear lord that is beautiful music.

    Amphetamine on
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    Aroused BullAroused Bull Registered User regular
    edited September 2006
    Anybody ever heard the Air of the Holberg Suites by Grieg?

    Dear lord that is beautiful music.

    Better than Peer Gynt?

    Edit: Are you sure that's the name?

    Aroused Bull on
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    ErlkingErlking Registered User regular
    edited September 2006
    Anybody ever heard the Air of the Holberg Suites by Grieg?

    Dear lord that is beautiful music.

    Better than Peer Gynt?

    Edit: Are you sure that's the name?
    Haha, he meant the movement entitled "Air" in Grieg's "Holberg Suite," not the "Air of the Holberg Suite." :lol:

    And yeah, it's something.

    Erlking on
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    AmphetamineAmphetamine Registered User regular
    edited September 2006
    Erlking wrote:
    Anybody ever heard the Air of the Holberg Suites by Grieg?

    Dear lord that is beautiful music.

    Better than Peer Gynt?

    Edit: Are you sure that's the name?
    Haha, he meant the movement entitled "Air" in Grieg's "Holberg Suite," not the "Air of the Holberg Suite." :lol:

    And yeah, it's something.
    Shoulda been more specific about that, yeah. 4th movement I think.

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    Aroused BullAroused Bull Registered User regular
    edited September 2006
    Oh. That would make more sense.

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    ElendilElendil Registered User regular
    edited September 2006
    Okay, so the scherzo of the Mahler 2 has the best climax ever.

    That chord. That delicious, delicious chord. Jesus Christ, there's so much energy in it, it feels like the piece has to discharge immediately afterward.

    Elendil on
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    PodlyPodly you unzipped me! it's all coming back! i don't like it!Registered User regular
    edited September 2006
    Elendil wrote:
    Okay, so the scherzo of the Mahler 2 has the best climax ever.

    That chord. That delicious, delicious chord. Jesus Christ, there's so much energy in it, it feels like the piece has to discharge immediately afterward.

    A worthy choice.


    But not as good as Tristan's prelude, the climax of Tristan, or a few places in the choral part of the 9th.

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    ElendilElendil Registered User regular
    edited September 2006
    Poldy wrote:
    Elendil wrote:
    Okay, so the scherzo of the Mahler 2 has the best climax ever.

    That chord. That delicious, delicious chord. Jesus Christ, there's so much energy in it, it feels like the piece has to discharge immediately afterward.

    A worthy choice.


    But not as good as Tristan's prelude, the climax of Tristan, or a few places in the choral part of the 9th.
    Or Scriabin's Poem of Ecstasy. I can't believe I forgot that one.

    Elendil on
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    ElendilElendil Registered User regular
    edited September 2006
    Anyone else a Ligeti fan?

    Elendil on
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    ElendilElendil Registered User regular
    edited September 2006
    The scherzo of the Mahler 7 is fantastic.

    I'm on my fence about the rest of it though.

    Oh yeah, is that a reference to the sixth's major->minor chord I hear sometimes in the second movement?

    Elendil on
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    ElendilElendil Registered User regular
    edited September 2006
    This thread is so masturbatory lately. We need some sex.

    Behold! Richter playing the Beethoven Op. 111

    Somebody care.

    Elendil on
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    PodlyPodly you unzipped me! it's all coming back! i don't like it!Registered User regular
    edited September 2006
    Elendil wrote:
    This thread is so masturbatory lately. We need some sex.

    Behold! Richter playing the Beethoven Op. 111

    Somebody care.

    Wow, that was pretty cool. I may be seeing The Emerson Quartet doing the Grosse Fuege in Nov. !!!!

    Also, Rossini is much better than I thought. He's so fun!

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    ElendilElendil Registered User regular
    edited September 2006
    Poldy wrote:
    Elendil wrote:
    This thread is so masturbatory lately. We need some sex.

    Behold! Richter playing the Beethoven Op. 111

    Somebody care.

    Wow, that was pretty cool. I may be seeing The Emerson Quartet doing the Grosse Fuege in Nov. !!!!

    Also, Rossini is much better than I thought. He's so fun!
    The Emerson Quartet does my recording of the Grosse Fuge.

    Neat. Where will you be seeing it?

    Elendil on
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    PodlyPodly you unzipped me! it's all coming back! i don't like it!Registered User regular
    edited September 2006
    Elendil wrote:
    Poldy wrote:
    Elendil wrote:
    This thread is so masturbatory lately. We need some sex.

    Behold! Richter playing the Beethoven Op. 111

    Somebody care.

    Wow, that was pretty cool. I may be seeing The Emerson Quartet doing the Grosse Fuege in Nov. !!!!

    Also, Rossini is much better than I thought. He's so fun!
    The Emerson Quartet does my recording of the Grosse Fuge.

    Neat. Where will you be seeing it?

    Some small theater at Columbia, I think.

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    saggiosaggio Registered User regular
    edited September 2006
    Goddammit. No one does Beethoven's Ninth like Karajan. I downloaded another symphonic cycle by someone else (the name escapes me), and I just think it sounds like complete shit when compared with the Berlin Philharmoniker.

    It lacks the intensity and drive of Karajan's version...Even if the tempo is slightly faster (which doesn't suit the opening movement of the Ninth at all - it's an Allegro, not a Vivace), the thing sounds like an orchestra playing Beethoven the way one plays Haydn. It just doesn't fit.

    saggio on
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    ElendilElendil Registered User regular
    edited September 2006
    This Beethoven binge is the best idea I've ever had.

    The music responds so well to reevaluation.

    Elendil on
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    ElendilElendil Registered User regular
    edited September 2006
    I just went batshit Beethoven crazy.

    Picked up:

    Archduke and Ghost Trios
    Diabelli Variations
    Coriolan Overture
    Fidelio
    Sonatas 18 and 26

    as well as a new recording of the Ninth (Karajan's, on saggio's recommendation)

    Elendil on
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    PodlyPodly you unzipped me! it's all coming back! i don't like it!Registered User regular
    edited September 2006
    Elendil wrote:
    I just went batshit Beethoven crazy.

    Picked up:

    Archduke and Ghost Trios
    Diabelli Variations
    Coriolan Overture
    Fidelio
    Sonatas 18 and 26

    as well as a new recording of the Ninth (Karajan's, on saggio's recommendation)

    :D:D:D

    I LOVE appasionata and Les Adieux

    and Fidelio


    and the Ninth with Karajan


    LUCKY!!!!

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    the Togfatherthe Togfather Registered User regular
    edited September 2006
    Elendil wrote:
    This thread is so masturbatory lately. We need some sex.

    Behold! Richter playing the Beethoven Op. 111

    Somebody care.

    watching youtube clips of various people playing piano pieces is my new favorite thing....great damn...

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    KraliasKralias Registered User regular
    edited September 2006
    I was checking out some short Piano pieces, and ran across Shostakovich's 24 Preludes and Fugues. For some reason, nobody knows about them, but they are amazing. Definitely worth checking out, they're basically Shostakovich's attempts to make his own Well-Tempered Clavier, which somehow succeeds remarkably well.

    Kralias on
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